BlindSquirrel
Registered: 11/12/09
Posts: 4
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Reply with quote | #151 |
"What the schools actually do, is really up to them and their compliance department. And BlindSquirrel, the schools can do whatever they want to do. But in doing so they risk the ire of the NCAA. Sooner or later the NCAA will create new rules to regulate trends they don't like. That is why the book is so thick. The rules are the rules, but it is up to each individual and each school to interpret them the way they want, until Big Brother gets involved."
That is what I consider to be a serious accusation. I was unaware that rules violations were involved. Would you mind posting the rules that were violated in my post? Parents should be aware of them. Thank you in advance.
John
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ssarge
Registered: 03/28/05
Posts: 608
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Reply with quote | #152 |
Quote: So while standing 15 feet away from the coach, my wife called her on her cell phone. They both laughed, exchanged waves and had a nice chat. Any rules broken?
THAT one never occurred to me. Now THAT one is funny, and pretty cool.
Quote: Example 2: Aren't there rules designed to prevent college coaches from contacting athletes before a certain date? So instead the college coaches tell a third party what he wants the athlete to know, knowing that the athlete will be told by the third party. This happens to some 14 year old players. Any rules broken?
In fact, the third party is often - perhaps typically - the travel ball coach, and this is essentially how business is conducted.
A grayer area (for many, anyway) is when the parent is also legitimately the girl's travel ball coach. Feels uncomfortable for a lot of college coaches, and that's understandable. Kind of an unwritten rule in this case that the college coach will interact with another member of the travel team's coaching staff.
The NCAA recruiting guidelines are about 300 pages, and will almost certainly grow. Some of them are very reasonable. Some seem absurd. Mostly, the absurd ones are an extension of reasonable rules. An example that I find classic:
I go visit my daughter, a college athlete. We go to breakfast, and invite her roommate - also a scholarship athlete - to accompany us. I pick up the tab, because I'm just that wonderful of a guy, or because I want my daughter to think I am cool, or whatever.
Recruiting violation. A booster offering a "gift" to an athlete - the roommate.
Which is ridiculous (and a recruiting violation occurring about 50,000 times every weekend across the NCAA landscape). Except if the gift was a car, maybe not so ridiculous. A matter of degree, but the same rule. In a perfect world, everyone would be able to distinguish the difference between a Mustang and Pigs in a Blanket. But the NCAA obviously can't assume a perfect world, even for non-revenue sports, so there is a 300 page book.
That said, there is SOME sanity to it. In my experience, most college softball coaches do a good job of walking the line, and keeping things above board. Even while faced with the necessity of negotiating complex agreements on merely a verbal basis. Obviously, some conversation is required to do that, and there are rules that govern that, too. But there are plenty of legitimate ways to accomplish it, and most college coaches avail themselves of those legitimate outlets. And even if they were to deal ONLY with college seniors would do the same thing. SOMETHING has to be negotiated and verbally agreed to before the kid receives the NLI.
Regards,
Scott
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LMUfan
Registered: 03/29/06
Posts: 1,787
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Reply with quote | #153 |
Quote: Originally Posted by ssarge
I go visit my daughter, a college athlete. We go to breakfast, and invite her roommate - also a scholarship athlete - to accompany us. I pick up the tab, because I'm just that wonderful of a guy, or because I want my daughter to think I am cool, or whatever.
Recruiting violation. A booster offering a "gift" to an athlete - the roommate.
Scott,
I did that so often I called my daughter's roommate "daughter number 4" (I have 3 daughters). Never once did I feel guilty nor did I worry about it. This is a kid living away from home and after games when the other players went to dinner with their parents it felt natural to give her some time with parental-like people. I stopped short of buying her that car, though. 
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JoiseyGuy
Registered: 08/10/04
Posts: 17,193
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Reply with quote | #154 |
Charlie and Sarge - I used to donate money to various softball programs that I thought were run well, Then one day, when I had advanced and non treatable cancer, I wanted to get a 21st birthday present for an Alabama player who had adopted me and who said that she was my "prayer warrior" - a term I'd never heard before. She hit a homer against Arkansas, and I happened to see a statue of a little girl climbing over a fence to get a ball which lay over the fence. "Perfect", I thought. I mailed the statue and then thought, as an afterthought, that I didn't want that girl to get into NCAA trouble, so I contacted Pat Murphy. He e-mailed that since I was a booster (Alabama is one of the schools that I supported financially) I could not give the present, and it was returned unopened to me. Sad, especiallu since Reggie Bush and the like are receiving scads more than what that statue cost, and my motives were pure. I have not given one penny to any softball program since. I understand the NCAA's position, but each case is entirely different and many of their generalities are super stupid. 
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Frank Bolton - Understanding of perspective, and mutual respect are the cornerstones of good discussion. |
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SpikesonShelf
Registered: 04/23/09
Posts: 35
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JoiseyGuy
Registered: 08/10/04
Posts: 17,193
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Reply with quote | #156 |
Spikes - I lost track of her after graduation. She lived in Alabama, and I live in Florida.
I wish her all good things, but I don't even remember what I did with the statue. Kids go on to other phases of their lives. I asked Pat Murphy how she was doing and he said "Terrific" and that's good enough for me. Besides, after graduation is not the same as her 21st birthday the week after she homered. I remember her very fondly but I am not part of her life now. I am in remission, and I think that's all she had to know. Good question, though.
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Frank Bolton - Understanding of perspective, and mutual respect are the cornerstones of good discussion. |
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NorthSouth
Registered: 10/27/05
Posts: 239
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Reply with quote | #157 |
So many good comments and discussions on this thread.
Quote: The solace I take in this is that coaches who pull verbals are really scr**ing themselves for the future. The travel ball community and coaches have long memories around this kind of thing, and they have significant influence with the kids as well. At the VERY least, no kid considering committing to a coach / university will move through that process without hearing about this kind of legacy. And I believe that for many, it would be a seriously negative consideration.
True, the travel community is small and word gets around. However, for every athlete that doesn't want to deal with a coach with a negative legacy there are 20 more that will. Coaches who's word has no substance will find someone else who will buy what they are selling. Somebody's misfortune may be an opportunity for another. Will this catch up with these coaches, I believe so, and I hope the higher level travel teams that have had these negative experiences will pass it around to others.
Getting this information out to all those who may be going through the recuiting process is helpful and brings a harsh reality to the process. When the coach is courting a player, he is on his best behavior and many promises are made or implied. When you step on campus things change...wish this wasn't so typical, as it is painful for the athlete when they get to those "just kidding" moments. Bottom line, take it or leave it, there is always a replacement waiting in the wings.
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ssarge
Registered: 03/28/05
Posts: 608
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Reply with quote | #158 |
Quote: Charlie and Sarge - I used to donate money to various softball programs that I thought were run well, Then one day, when I had advanced and non treatable cancer, I wanted to get a 21st birthday present for an Alabama player who had adopted me and who said that she was my "prayer warrior" - a term I'd never heard before.
Frank:
There is more than one person out there who is your prayer warrior. I know that hasn't necessarily been a huge part of your life to date, but it's important to me that you know people care deeply about you.
I really enjoyed spending time with you and Chuck in Florida last year. And heck, you were one of a few people that saw my daughter's first college home run, as she was just breaking into the line-up about then. That is a very special memory for me, and I'm glad you were there to share it.
I am not at all surprised that you would attempt to give the gift, or to make donations. You are representative of the many fine people frequenting this site who are just quality human beings, and make a difference where they can.
I'm also not surprised you would attempt to abide by the rules, even if they preclude what should be seen as a gesture of kindness, and nothing more. For the same reason - you're a good person, and I'm pleased to know you, if only a little.
Absolute best regards,
Scott
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GoYard
Registered: 02/19/08
Posts: 216
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Reply with quote | #159 |
So if my daughter goes home with another player over Thanksgiving weekend, stays with the family, is provided all her meals, etc., that is a violation??
If so, guess she'll be staying in the dorm alone for six days.....
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chokenpoke
Registered: 12/26/08
Posts: 65
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Reply with quote | #160 |
If I want to have the entire team over to my house for dinner...not a problem! If I try and pick up the tab at a local pizza joint...that's a problem! Dinner at the house...$300 (not a problem). Pizza for the team away from my house...$100 (that's a problem)...stupid rules! |
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ssarge
Registered: 03/28/05
Posts: 608
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Reply with quote | #161 |
Interesting. Do you know this to be correct - private meals are OK? I didn't know that, but glad to hear it, if true.
Regards,
Scott
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brewtusplease
Registered: 06/20/09
Posts: 3
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Reply with quote | #162 |
Quote: Originally Posted by GoYardSo if my daughter goes home with another player over Thanksgiving weekend, stays with the family, is provided all her meals, etc., that is a violation?? If so, guess she'll be staying in the dorm alone for six days.....
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vcaldwell
Registered: 05/20/05
Posts: 298
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Reply with quote | #163 |
I actually asked a compliance officer about this and was told that holiday dinners are generally acceptable at a family's home. But should coincide with major holidays or special events. (I know of one school where a parent holds a birthday party each semester for all the players who have birthdays that semester) Team dinners at a restaurant are out. (see booster rules) She told me more than 4-5 TEAM events a year where food is provided (paid for) by anyone perceived as "related to the school" would be pushing it. (coach paid meals excepted) However, the players can do these types of things all they want and pot-lucks are encouraged because the perception is that each person/family is providing food for their player. (that's why team tailgate's are OK)
JMHO,
Vic
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ssarge
Registered: 03/28/05
Posts: 608
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Reply with quote | #164 |
Thanks, I learned something here. That's good news.
Best regards,
Scott
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gomrpi
Registered: 07/07/05
Posts: 786
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Reply with quote | #165 |
... now seriously guys... gals... you do realize that the rules were created for money making sports and not softball...
does that mean we don't have to follow them ????
NO... but it does mean that no one is going to report that you bought your DD's best friend ( and team softball player) lunch....
let's get real here!
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bearpaw
Registered: 04/07/09
Posts: 29
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Reply with quote | #166 |
So if parents are asked to sponsor team dinners when the team is on the road (money goes to the school and coach pays for the meals) is that a violation? |
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