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Tigers334

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Reply with quote  #31 
Quote:
Originally Posted by outofzone


Maybe Saile wasn't interested. Coach Dean not the easiest guy to play for. Understandable.


Hence my point. If Dean’s personality is keeping us from getting a player at a position of need to even visit the campus, I’m concerned for the future.
TheNarrator

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Reply with quote  #32 
When Cint was rightfully fired, Auburn went back to being a middle of the pack SEC program.
smcouvillion

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Reply with quote  #33 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheNarrator
When Cint was rightfully fired, Auburn went back to being a middle of the pack SEC program.


Exactly. He is the best coach that Auburn or Arizona State will ever have.
Respectthegame

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Reply with quote  #34 
It would be a shame if Saile went anywhere outside the SEC. She’s an extremely talented player that deserves that spotlight. She obviously has to do what’s best for her. Hopefully she’ll see the SEC is best when it comes to supporting softball and developing players.
CoachZ

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Reply with quote  #35 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tigers334


Hence my point. If Dean’s personality is keeping us from getting a player at a position of need to even visit the campus, I’m concerned for the future.


She didn’t turn down a visit to him because of his personality (or anything else). He never asked. But that doesn’t mean he doesn’t know what he’s doing. He wasn’t the only coach who didn’t ask. He likely has plans in place.
On a completely separate note, i don’t know Mickey dean at all, however ... He’s only had a year, people. Don’t get out the torches and pitch forks yet. I know Clint did amazing things with the programs he’s coached. But most sane people here agree that they wouldn’t want him and his family coaching their kids. I also know that Dean walked into a program that still held a ton of talent. But please recognize that the culture of a team (especially among women) is extremely relevant in terms of winning. I would be surprised if there were many kids on the team who didn’t “choose a side” at some point during the disaster that the Manson family created in their time there. You know there are young women who can’t stand each other there because of what some did or didn’t do or say in all that mess. It’s human nature. It’s going to take a few years for all that mess to get sorted because some are just going to have to leave the environment for it to become less toxic. I’m not sayin the kids are toxic, but some of them have got to be angry and at least a little scarred. That makes for a tough environment to be a team in and to win with.
lovsofbal

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Reply with quote  #36 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Respectthegame
It would be a shame if Saile went anywhere outside the SEC. She’s an extremely talented player that deserves that spotlight. She obviously has to do what’s best for her. Hopefully she’ll see the SEC is best when it comes to supporting softball and developing players.


SEC is best when it comes to supporting softball and developing players? how disrespectful to the rest of the softball world to say that.  
lovsofbal

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Reply with quote  #37 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Respectthegame
You don’t believe that the team/conference you support is the best?


I'm saying she could do fine in other conferences as well.  When you/SEC starts stringing national championships together come back and talk. Don't forget some of the most talked about programs the past 2-3 years in the SEC have been Missouri and Auburn. Not from the highlight reels either. 

Respectthegame

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Reply with quote  #38 
Just because something is really good doesn’t mean everything else is bad. I’m not saying other conferences or teams lack the ability to develop talent, I’m just saying the SEC is the best. I’m fully supportive of you believing your team and conference are the best. Why do you care who I think is best? :-) I don’t get it.
coldnole

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Reply with quote  #39 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Respectthegame
It would be a shame if Saile went anywhere outside the SEC. She’s an extremely talented player that deserves that spotlight. She obviously has to do what’s best for her. Hopefully she’ll see the SEC is best when it comes to supporting softball and developing players.


Yeah, don’t want her to follow in Hanson’s footsteps in the ACC. Whatever happened to her? Failed to develop and FSU bounced in regionals?
Respectthegame

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Reply with quote  #40 
Lets not mix words. Elite level players are elite level players no matter where they play. Put Pujols on the bad news bears and he still drops bombs. It would be a shame (for the SEC) for Saile to go anywhere outside of the conference. Both Saile and Hanson are and were great before they made the jump to the power five.
CrowHop

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Posts: 256
Reply with quote  #41 
Quote:
Originally Posted by CoachZ


She didn’t turn down a visit to him because of his personality (or anything else). He never asked. But that doesn’t mean he doesn’t know what he’s doing. He wasn’t the only coach who didn’t ask. He likely has plans in place.
On a completely separate note, i don’t know Mickey dean at all, however ... He’s only had a year, people. Don’t get out the torches and pitch forks yet. I know Clint did amazing things with the programs he’s coached. But most sane people here agree that they wouldn’t want him and his family coaching their kids. I also know that Dean walked into a program that still held a ton of talent. But please recognize that the culture of a team (especially among women) is extremely relevant in terms of winning. I would be surprised if there were many kids on the team who didn’t “choose a side” at some point during the disaster that the Manson family created in their time there. You know there are young women who can’t stand each other there because of what some did or didn’t do or say in all that mess. It’s human nature. It’s going to take a few years for all that mess to get sorted because some are just going to have to leave the environment for it to become less toxic. I’m not sayin the kids are toxic, but some of them have got to be angry and at least a little scarred. That makes for a tough environment to be a team in and to win with.


While I completely agree with this, it doesn't help that apparently (according to AU fans who appear to be in the know) CMD conducts himself as if he's already taken Auburn to OKC five times over.

__________________
Your pitcher is illegal.
cjs4585

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Reply with quote  #42 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Respectthegame
Just because something is really good doesn’t mean everything else is bad. I’m not saying other conferences or teams lack the ability to develop talent, I’m just saying the SEC is the best. I’m fully supportive of you believing your team and conference are the best. Why do you care who I think is best? :-) I don’t get it.


You can delude yourself however you want, but when you post on a public forum you better be able to back it up with proof if you don't want pushback. From what I see, the SEC is definitely not the best at developing talent. They've done a good job at recruiting talent, arguably the best as a conference overall, but is Barnhill a better pitcher than she was as a freshman? Her numbers certainly don't say so. How is that crowhopping and changeup coming along? How about the kids ruined at MO that later on had impactful careers at other schools? Other than Gray from GA, where is the year over year improvement exhibited by pitchers like Kleist, Elish, Garcia, Alvelo, King and Juarez this past year?  
Tennhorn

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Reply with quote  #43 
I hear Texas has a wonderful new pitching coach....the Horns will take Ms. Saile.
3leftturns

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Reply with quote  #44 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cjs4585


You can delude yourself however you want, but when you post on a public forum you better be able to back it up with proof if you don't want pushback. From what I see, the SEC is definitely not the best at developing talent. They've done a good job at recruiting talent, arguably the best as a conference overall, but is Barnhill a better pitcher than she was as a freshman? Her numbers certainly don't say so. How is that crowhopping and changeup coming along? How about the kids ruined at MO that later on had impactful careers at other schools? Other than Gray from GA, where is the year over year improvement exhibited by pitchers like Kleist, Elish, Garcia, Alvelo, King and Juarez this past year?  
I want to hear some answers to this one
jayrot

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Reply with quote  #45 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cjs4585


You can delude yourself however you want, but when you post on a public forum you better be able to back it up with proof if you don't want pushback. From what I see, the SEC is definitely not the best at developing talent. They've done a good job at recruiting talent, arguably the best as a conference overall, but is Barnhill a better pitcher than she was as a freshman? Her numbers certainly don't say so. How is that crowhopping and changeup coming along? How about the kids ruined at MO that later on had impactful careers at other schools? Other than Gray from GA, where is the year over year improvement exhibited by pitchers like Kleist, Elish, Garcia, Alvelo, King and Juarez this past year?  


LOL at that list of pitchers.  King isn't any better this year as she has been in the past.  Thus why Hanson (a transfer) carried that FSU team during the regular season.  Alvelo who has been injured almost her entire career and hasn't necessarily "improved" over the years.  Plain carried that team as FR.  Garcia who is the same pitcher she came in as.  I'll leave the other Oregon pitchers alone as they are 3LTs pets, and I like him enough to not address them.
3leftturns

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Reply with quote  #46 
Elish performance was eons better than last year (as was Kleist's until whatever it is that has kept her from playing for Team USA this summer). Don't ask me.... just look at the stats. Please... address them. LOL

Ball don't lie

And, one can call it a hot stretch, or one can call it development, but King took a step up for the final month of the season

Garcia's ERA went from 1.87 to 1.31
coldnole

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Posts: 34
Reply with quote  #47 
Oh please, King’s ERA has gone down every year. 2.3, 1.5, down to 1.17 this year. From getting hit hard at WCWS her freshman season to posting the all time low ERA for the event. Try again
Nextyear

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Posts: 255
Reply with quote  #48 
This game was dominated by the west coast for many years and the West Coast is still incredibly strong. Both in developing talent at the travel ball level and also very strong at the NCAA level. What the SEC has done is raised the bar. They took the bar where the PAC 12 and other West Coast schools set it and pushed it up. If you invest in beautiful large stadiums, training facilities and pay coaches the most money you will get talent. I believe that if the SEC hadn’t invested Like this you would not see the PAC 12 starting to build new facilities like Oregon and Utah.

Now there is talent everywhere. Cali, Texas, Alabama, Georgia and Florida are loaded with players. It seems like the Midwest produces great pitcher after great pitcher. The growth of the game spreading throughout the country means if you get a smart coach that works their butt off teaching and recruiting anyone can build a strong D1 program. The SEC had a down year last year as far as elite teams but it’s not going anywhere on the softball landscape. Those schools have made a commitment to being good at Softball and it will continue. There are many great options in the SEC for a top transfer pitcher like Shannon Saile. All that said are also many many other great choices for her outside the SEC.
jayrot

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Reply with quote  #49 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3leftturns
Elish performance was eons better than last year (as was Kleist's until whatever it is that has kept her from playing for Team USA this summer). Don't ask me.... just look at the stats. Please... address them. LOL

Ball don't lie

And, one can call it a hot stretch, or one can call it development, but King took a step up for the final month of the season

Garcia's ERA went from 1.87 to 1.31


I'll counter with Grauer, Conley, Hovinga, McQuillin, Macha, Stanchek, Stangle, Walker.

King statistically (if that is all we are looking at) wasn't even the best on her team.
3leftturns

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Reply with quote  #50 

Hovinga?

Conley?

 

And, the point of the exercise is for YOU to provide the SEC pitchers last year who took that leap from the year before... among Friday-Sunday fare...

Not Saturdays, and not never-was-es

jayrot

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Posts: 17,752
Reply with quote  #51 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3leftturns

Hovinga?

Conley?

 

And, the point of the exercise is for YOU to provide the SEC pitchers last year who took that leap from the year before... among Friday-Sunday fare...

Not Saturdays, and not never-was-es



So does that get rid of King (who was a Saturday pitcher in the ACC) and Alvelo?

So we are going with a one year list of which conference that had pitchers who improved?  That is what defines if a conference is good at developing it's players?  You, me, and everyone on this forum knows that it is STUPID to try and lump UCLA's coaches into a list of coaches who improve pitchers just because Garcia's era dropped from last year.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3leftturns
and not never-was-es


And here in lies the issue. The discussion is that we are talking about which coaches can "develop" players, but that statement in and of itself is trying to limit the discussion to players who were recruited with the talent when they walked in the door.  Who made those top 10 pitchers better.

I'd put Lawson and Bev Smith up against UCLA coaches in terms of taking a level of talent and making it better than you would've expected.  Kelsey Oh is nowhere near Garcia's talent level, but what Bev Smith has gotten out of Kelsey Oh is more coaching than what UCLA did to ride Garcia to the glue factory.
dws3665

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Reply with quote  #52 
In which a nice thread speculating about Shannon Saile’s destination went off the rails ...
UGASBFan

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Reply with quote  #53 
Well, CoachZ and Saile herself have been private for the most part. I really doubt we'll know or hear anything before Saile or her chosen school announces it-- and that's okay.
3leftturns

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Posts: 16,028
Reply with quote  #54 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jayrot


So does that get rid of King (who was a Saturday pitcher in the ACC) and Alvelo?

So we are going with a one year list of which conference that had pitchers who improved?  That is what defines if a conference is good at developing it's players?  You, me, and everyone on this forum knows that it is STUPID to try and lump UCLA's coaches into a list of coaches who improve pitchers just because Garcia's era dropped from last year.



And here in lies the issue. The discussion is that we are talking about which coaches can "develop" players, but that statement in and of itself is trying to limit the discussion to players who were recruited with the talent when they walked in the door.  Who made those top 10 pitchers better.

I'd put Lawson and Bev Smith up against UCLA coaches in terms of taking a level of talent and making it better than you would've expected.  Kelsey Oh is nowhere near Garcia's talent level, but what Bev Smith has gotten out of Kelsey Oh is more coaching than what UCLA did to ride Garcia to the glue factory.
again.... tell me about the nonprogression of kleist and elish
HenryLouisAaron

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Reply with quote  #55 
<< Yes, that's a good point.   Is it ever the case that an athletic department makes a coach sit out a year, or restricts to which schools that coach may seek employment? >> (DunninLA)


OK, you can leave Oregon to take the job in Texas, Mike...  but you will have to sit out a year.

; )
HenryLouisAaron

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Reply with quote  #56 
<< It would be a shame if Saile went anywhere outside the SEC. She’s an extremely talented player that deserves that spotlight. She obviously has to do what’s best for her. Hopefully she’ll see the SEC is best when it comes to supporting softball and developing players. >> (Respectthegame)


Tell that to Paige Lowary.
1janiedough

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Reply with quote  #57 
Yeah you can't say a conference is best at developing and supporting softball players. Lol.
jayrot

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Reply with quote  #58 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3leftturns
again.... tell me about the nonprogression of kleist and elish


So now we are down to praising one coach in the conference? I’ll give in and say White might be one of the best at developing pitchers in the country. Doesn’t equate to a whole conference, and doesn’t account for why they falter down the stretch.
jayrot

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Reply with quote  #59 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dws3665
In which a nice thread speculating about Shannon Saile’s destination went off the rails ...


She’s going to Arkansas, are ya happy now? 😜
jayrot

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Posts: 17,752
Reply with quote  #60 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1janiedough
Yeah you can't say a conference is best at developing and supporting softball players. Lol.


Agreed on developing. Disagree on supporting. There is no question that the SEC better supports its players in terms of putting money into the program and support staff on the whole. The worst stadium in the conference would still be ahead of the stadiums at Strawberry Canyon, Rita H, Palo Alto, and Westwood - then again that’s an opinion based on having been to all of those stadiums.
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