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Killerrise

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My daughter is a 13 year old 8th grader with aspirations of pitching in college. As parents we want to foster her dream and provide her the tools she needs to be successful while being realistic enough to know that not every kid who takes pitching lessons can become a college pitcher.

Does anyone have a reference on stats for pitchers such as size, average speed, variety of pitches, and how that breaks down to division I, II, and so on?

Thanks!
LMUfan

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Reply with quote  #2 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Killerrise
My daughter is a 13 year old 8th grader with aspirations of pitching in college. As parents we want to foster her dream and provide her the tools she needs to be successful while being realistic enough to know that not every kid who takes pitching lessons can become a college pitcher.

Does anyone have a reference on stats for pitchers such as size, average speed, variety of pitches, and how that breaks down to division I, II, and so on?

Thanks!


I can give you perspective from a non-pitcher's parent.  You mentioned speed in your question.  It would seem, from my observations, that speed is less important in college than it was at the earlier ages such as high school and travel ball.  At those earlier ages a big deal was made about speed with many radar guns showing up at many games.  At the younger ages, especially your daughter's age, a powerful, fast pitcher can blow pitches by the batters and be successful.  It's a tempting black hole, speed.

In college it would appear that speed alone will be the death knell of a pitcher.  The hitters are just too good to blow the pitches past them.  The most effective pitchers I've seen in college have tremendous accuracy and wicked breaking pitches.  Throw in a well disguised change up and it's a recipe for success.

I'd make sure your daughter has a repertoire of pitches and don't rely upon speed.

Good luck, it's a wonderful journey upon which you are about to embark.
Killerrise

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Reply with quote  #3 
Thanks!

Her pitching coach (Sarah Pauly) has told her that at this age she should only use her fastball about 10% of the time. Her focus is movement. Unfortunately speed is one of those things we can quantify which makes us think about it more than we should.
JoiseyGuy

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Reply with quote  #4 
rise - The "ride" from 8th grade to college is a long one fraught with disappointment and dappled with successes. You have employed an excellent pitching coach. Allow her to do her job, allow your daughter to be a teen age girl who is loved whether she succeeds in softball or not, and above all, enjoy the trip because the next 4 years will fly, whether your daughter becomes a phenom or not. Remember that your daughter already has a coach; she needs you to be a parent.
P.S. Emphasize academics !!

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Killerrise

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Thank you...grades are excellent...so far!

UMassFan

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With excellent grades, I would try to take a challenging course load with honors classes Freshman year and then AP classes later on. Solid academics will open up a lot of doors.


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LMUfan

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Quote:
Originally Posted by UMassFan

With excellent grades, I would try to take a challenging course load with honors classes Freshman year and then AP classes later on. Solid academics will open up a lot of doors.



I'm not convinced about the AP classes.  Yes, they still carry weight at the UC campuses, but many schools are phasing out any preferences or extra weight for AP classes.  Some don't use them at all and only see them as regular classes.  For the most part, an "A" in an honors class and/or a college prep class is just as good as an "A" in an AP class and as a general rule, much easier to obtain.
UMassFan

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I'd have to disagree. Honors and AP classes carry much more weight on a college campus opposed to college prep classes. If you get a B in an honors or AP class it is looked upon as if not more favorably than an A in a CP class. Colleges are looking to see if you challenged yourself.


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gomrpi

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Reply with quote  #9 
Quote:
Originally Posted by UMassFan

I'd have to disagree. Honors and AP classes carry much more weight on a college campus opposed to college prep classes. If you get a B in an honors or AP class it is looked upon as if not more favorably than an A in a CP class. Colleges are looking to see if you challenged yourself.



... and I would have to agree with LMUfan.  Most schools now don't know the difference in whether or not a HS provided a high level AP or honors class anyhow.  Many Higher Ed schools now look only at the non-weighted GPR and let the SAT and class rank ferret out the rest.  Many also now require a written portion that is used as well.
the_fanatic

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Yes, there are some schools that don't see the difference in AP vs regular classroom but there are still many (a majority) that do.  The big difference is in how truly prepared your DD is for college.  Even if the AP/honors classes don't count for more in getting in to your college, the challenge from these classes will help a lot when the student meets the load of college classes plus the full-time job that is college softball.  I believe that a student-athlete should "practice" college life as much as possible when they are in high school.  They should take as challenging a class load as they can handle.  They should learn to put in extra work beyond sports practices.  They should get involved in community work projects.  Let's all remember that college prep isn't just about getting into college, it is about staying in college.

playa

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Reply with quote  #11 

Having another position she can play is also good, just in case!

LMUfan

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Quote:
Originally Posted by playa

Having another position she can play is also good, just in case!



Excellent point. Tracy Cook at LMU played 3B and 1B but was a pitcher in travel ball.
Krukman69

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Reply with quote  #13 

I can't remark on how important AP courses are in the selection process for ALL universities but I can tell you how much it helps the incoming student/athlete.  Just last year I had 5 girls go off to college.  1 player entered with 9 college credits due to AP classes and 1 player actually had 20+college credits due to AP courses.  The rest fell somewhere in between.  What this does is gives them flexibility on how to attack their college education (number of classes per session/deciding to graduate early)  I recommend taking them to all my players...challenging oneself is always a good thing!     

BillSmith

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Reply with quote  #14 
C-Pillsbury said: I can't speak for all universities, maybe some don't assume as much as UCLA when attending the advanced class. 

Ok...so we'll stick to UCLA for our example as we are both familiar with this institution.

Also, some high school AP classes may prepare one for the advanced classes better than others.
 
So, I'm going to assert that apparently my local high school does "better" because...

I never believed it was wise for a child to skip an elementary grade and it's probably not wise to skip college classes either.
 
"Never" is probably best corrected to "most". Skipping an elementary grade is not wise for most children.
 
Regarding skipping a college course. As I have related above, my experience is diametrically opposed of your example student. An oft heard comment around here is, "It isn't as difficult as I thought." Those offering those comments are extraordinary kids, but they head to UCLA in good number every graduating class from our little hamlet. For them, my advice would be to shun your advice.

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LMUfan

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Reply with quote  #15 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillSmith
C-Pillsbury said: I can't speak for all universities, maybe some don't assume as much as UCLA when attending the advanced class. 

Ok...so we'll stick to UCLA for our example as we are both familiar with this institution.

Also, some high school AP classes may prepare one for the advanced classes better than others.
 
So, I'm going to assert that apparently my local high school does "better" because...

I never believed it was wise for a child to skip an elementary grade and it's probably not wise to skip college classes either.
 
"Never" is probably best corrected to "most". Skipping an elementary grade is not wise for most children.
 
Regarding skipping a college course. As I have related above, my experience is diametrically opposed of your example student. An oft heard comment around here is, "It isn't as difficult as I thought." Those offering those comments are extraordinary kids, but they head to UCLA in good number every graduating class from our little hamlet. For them, my advice would be to shun your advice.


Of course this must all be taken in context.  As a graduate of UCLA with a degree in Mathematics and Computer Science there's not a chance in hell I'd say that it was easier than expected.  I challenge anyone that has such a major to say it either.  However, if one decides to major in Communications then there's grounds for claiming that college was easier than expected, maybe easier than high school.  It just depends upon the road you take in college.

However, I did change majors from Electrical Engineering to Math-Computer Science after my sophomore year and I can honestly say that I stepped down a notch in difficulty even though I transferred from San Jose State to UCLA.

My youngest enters her freshman year at San Jose State as a Biology major.  A required course for all freshman science majors is a class exploring what a science major is like and how friggin' hard it will be.  Only 12% of all incoming science majors graduate with a science degree and they want to let you know what you're in for.  It's not an easy road, no matter how you slice it.
BruinDad

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Reply with quote  #16 
Quote:
Originally Posted by the_fanatic

Yes, there are some schools that don't see the difference in AP vs regular classroom but there are still many (a majority) that do.  The big difference is in how truly prepared your DD is for college.  Even if the AP/honors classes don't count for more in getting in to your college, the challenge from these classes will help a lot when the student meets the load of college classes plus the full-time job that is college softball.  I believe that a student-athlete should "practice" college life as much as possible when they are in high school.  They should take as challenging a class load as they can handle.  They should learn to put in extra work beyond sports practices.  They should get involved in community work projects.  Let's all remember that college prep isn't just about getting into college, it is about staying in college.

Great post Fanatic, my thoughts exactly. And, don't forget, if a school has a choice between kids and one kid took the AP road and has 20 or so units coming in and the other kid didn't really push him/herself and has the same gpa but no incoming credits? Which one would you pick? Thought so.
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Original_Coach

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Reply with quote  #17 
Killerrise,

I always smile when I hear people downgrade the value of ground speed in pitching.

In every conversation i have with a college coach regarding pitchers. 99% of the time the first question I get asked is how hard does she throw.

Can you say Numero Ueno?

They never ask about movement first!

If your daughter reaches 60+ MPH with command? She will get a lot of D-1 looks.

If she maxes out at 55+? She better have some great spin and deception to get a D-1 opportunity!

You can measure movement now. There are radar devices for speed and rotation now.

Sarah Pauly is a great pitcher. I have never had the privilege of experiencing her coaching and teaching skills.

My suggestion for a pitching foundation. Listed in the order i teach them.

1. Fundamentally/Biologically correct pitching mechanics.
2. Power/Ground speed
3. Location
5. Spin/Movement
4. Deception

Also I must add. Change your name to hard-down!

You will be at the cutting edge of pitching in my opinion!

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Killerrise

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Reply with quote  #18 
I've been reading the debate about rises really rising...not qualified to comment...from the bucket it looks like it moves...lol

We also work with Rick when Sarah is playing so i feel we get pretty good coaching. Consistantly from the mound she is 53-55 (high is 57)at age 13 and her spin rates aren't bad low 20's on her rise. Just trying to figure out where we need to be.
BillSmith

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Reply with quote  #19 
Killerrise,

If you are working with the Paulys you are in good hands.

You asked:

Quote:
Does anyone have a reference on stats for pitchers such as size, average speed, variety of pitches, and how that breaks down to division I, II, and so on?

By size you mean height I assume. Yes, coaches pick the tall ones, but Ueno ain't nicknamed Stretch. Bring it hard and no problem.

Go with Original_Coach on this one. Speed kills. As in, it is the killer for a rise in factors related to recruiting. I would concur with OC that I have yet to have a conversation with a college coach that didn't contain the question, "How fast is she?"

Variety? Each college coach has a different view of what is the most effective pitching style. If she is a right-handed pitcher, have something that breaks away from leftys. Unless you KNEW that you were going to throw for Teresa Wilson, I wouldn't change my style in anticipation of what college might require.

UNLESS...she stays stuck in the 50s. It was a great era, but a not a good speed that will get ya there on the freeway nor to a Top 25 D-1 softball program. If you are throwing under 60+ mph, you better be beyond baffling in your delivery.

Be fundementally sound. Kinesiolgical perfection. Build speed incrementally every season. I'd flip-flop deception with movement on OC's list, but that's a great guideline.

The ball only has to move merest of inches to miss the solid part of the bat. Breaking down a hitter's ability to perceive where the ball will be located is done more with speed than any other factor.

Be sound, be fast and be recruited.

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MHSDad2009

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Reply with quote  #20 
Killer:

You're going to get a lot of opinions and some will mean more than others. As long as your daughter is enjoying what she's doing, is taking responsibility for earning the privilege (grades, chores, family responsibilities, friends OUTSIDE of softball, etc...), and you continue to use good coaches that emphasize the positive things she's doing and 'teach' her, she's going to be fine.

One thing that you will value the more and more this trip continues, is the time you'll spend with her. I'll tell you that with my D, those long car rides, talking about nothing and arguing about music are the things I'll remember most. Washing uniforms in the sink and figuring out how to hang them over the air conditioner in the hundreds of hotel rooms we've stayed in are the things that your D will value...my Dad and Mom are always there for me. It's not about the games, although those will be fun. It's usually about everything else.

And the one thing that you've already done well, without even knowing it, is coming to UCS and asking for advice, guidance and help. You've come to THE right place. NOT because there are parents of Olympians, D-1 superstars and NPF all-stars on here, no it's because those people are so giving and helpful and selfless.

I can't tell you the number of people on this board who have reached out to me in a time of questioning, in a time of confusion, when I didn't know if the story I was being told is right or wrong, truthful or not...and they'd PM me with the 'straight' skinny. Those same people who have allowed my D to call their D's and talk, ask questions, get advice, seek guidance...selflessly and in the spirit of giving with the simple reason that someone did it for them and they're paying it forward. The people on UCS are priceless...and you'll get your chance to do the same someday, if not already.

I am so very fortunate to have found this board when I did, my D has benefited unbelievably from the people on here and now, no matter where we go in Softball, there's a person or family that is always there with open arms, a spare ticket, a hug and a seat in the family section, for us.

You all know who you are, go on, Pat your self on the back.


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TheHammer

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Reply with quote  #21 
you are so correct that this site is the best in the world for softball and those interested in it. Those involved are the best.
We should never stop thanking ROBO for making our life, and our DD's life more fun and less complicated.
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rocklifter

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Reply with quote  #22 
How many of you have been to tourneys for 10U/12U and seen a coach with a brand new radar gun firing the beams at the pitchers. I have always found this to be quite entertaining.
Frank you will love this......My daughter had aspirations to be a pitcher and low and behold her pitching coach only checked their speeds once in a month period. She said speed wasnt the most important thing for a 10 to 12 year old. Mechanics, understanding of how a pitcher needs to move to correctly throw the ball....She said that many times people get so over done with speed they forget about the mechanics and it leads to hurting many young ladies arms/shoulders.....


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toroman

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Reply with quote  #23 
Rocklifter,
It's quite amusing to watch the parents of the 10u crowd. Many think that their daughter is the next .... big player.  I know I was there too, the amusing thing is remembering it myself.  It is all about perspective.

One of my favorite parent memories is
I was at a local tournament  watching a 10U while my younger daughters (18) team was on a break.  Something about one of the players caught my eye.  I was sitting in the bleachers behind some parents.  My wife sat beside me wondering why I was at the game.  I told her it just brought back memories.  Then I told her that a particular player looked pretty good for her age.  I didn't realize that the parents directly in front of me were the players parents.  They both turned in unison a told me that she "was very good" and will be playing college softball on a scholarship.   I just smiled and wished them good luck and the father said, "she is good - she doesn't need luck"  Absolutely Incredible.
LMUfan

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Reply with quote  #24 
Quote:
Originally Posted by toroman
Rocklifter,
It's quite amusing to watch the parents of the 10u crowd. Many think that their daughter is the next .... big player.  I know I was there too, the amusing thing is remembering it myself.  It is all about perspective.




Well, not everyone.  I didn't know travel ball existed until my daughter was about 13.  She played rec ball until 14. It wasn't until she was about 16 that I thought about scholarships.  It just wasn't important. Playing two sports was more important.
gonein2point85

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Reply with quote  #25 

Quote:
Originally Posted by toroman
Rocklifter,
It's quite amusing to watch the parents of the 10u crowd. Many think that their daughter is the next .... big player.  I know I was there too, the amusing thing is remembering it myself.  It is all about perspective.

One of my favorite parent memories is
I was at a local tournament  watching a 10U while my younger daughters (18) team was on a break.  Something about one of the players caught my eye.  I was sitting in the bleachers behind some parents.  My wife sat beside me wondering why I was at the game.  I told her it just brought back memories.  Then I told her that a particular player looked pretty good for her age.  I didn't realize that the parents directly in front of me were the players parents.  They both turned in unison a told me that she "was very good" and will be playing college softball on a scholarship.   I just smiled and wished them good luck and the father said, "she is good - she doesn't need luck"  Absolutely Incredible.


Softball parents never cease to be entertaining, regardless of the age of the dd.

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toroman

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Reply with quote  #26 
Gone,
I didn't mean for the 10u parents to have a monopoly on the amusing factor.  My story just involved the 10u parents.  I am sure that there are millions of stories at all ages.

My other one was when a mother of a high school player charged the plate ump walking out to his car.  She was 5' nothing but hit 250lbs and the deputy working the game just exlaimed "oh Sh...t"  as she hit the blue like a DT from the football team. All because he called her daughter out at home in the last inning.


Anyone have any good parents acting up stories?
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