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bluedog

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Reply with quote  #91 
A worthwhile coach will allow a player to swing her way, as long as she's hitting capably.............The emphasis should be on the player having the opportunity to maximize their potential...........If a coach takes that away from the player, then IMO, that coach isn't worthwhile............ 
Mark_H

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Reply with quote  #92 
I'll look at the posts since last night next but I thought I'd offer this link. Haven't looked at it in awhile. http://softball.coachesdirectory.com/article/dobson
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Mark H
Mark_H

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Reply with quote  #93 
I won't argue with you about Clemente except to say he may be at the forward ragged edge of where you can be and still be an elite hitter. May be. Not something I'd try to teach but if a kid was hitting like Clemente I wouldn't take it away from her. Actually knew a kid on an 18 team I helped coach in 2012 who wasn't too far from this. She raked. We left her alone. Went somewhere D1 in the Midwest IIRC.

What would you criticize, if anything, about the still image position of the female hitter below Clemente in your post?

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Mark H
bluedog

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Reply with quote  #94 
Quote:
What would you criticize, if anything, about the still image position of the female hitter below Clemente in your post?


1) - The weight over the front-side...........The head in front of the front hip.........

2) - The palm-up, palm-down hand position after ball contact...........It's an inefficient hand-path............The bottom-hand should be turning............



This is efficiency..............

[Pujols_Hands_sidepan]
Mark_H

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Reply with quote  #95 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluedog
A worthwhile coach will allow a player to swing her way, as long as she's hitting capably.............The emphasis should be on the player having the opportunity to maximize their potential...........If a coach takes that away from the player, then IMO, that coach isn't worthwhile............ 


I used to say if a kid is hitting as well as she wants to at the highest level she aspires to then yeah, leave her alone. For an exception, if we are talking about a 12u player with huge potential who is hitting the crap out of bad pitching, or maybe hitting pretty good pitching just because she's a physical specimen, with this swing http://imageevent.com/siggy/hitting/analysis?p=19&n=1&m=20&c=4&l=0&w=4&s=0&z=9, then I'm going to have to have a long talk with mom, dad and her about her limitations with this swing. Maybe she's an elite volleyball player and just wants to play small school softball with her friends. Maybe her goal is to play college softball. It all depends.



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Mark H
bluedog

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Reply with quote  #96 
Sure........But, they should make the decision as to what route they will take and not be forced into someone else's decision...........

Hey, they'll either make it, or they won't.........Right?
Mark_H

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Reply with quote  #97 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluedog
1) - The weight over the front-side...........The head in front of the front hip.........

2) - The palm-up, palm-down hand position after ball contact...........


Maybe I shouldn't mention it lest someone teach it or anyone freak out but elite hitters are frequently slightly wrist rolled at contact. But I'll let that go if someone wants to argue as it's better as a non teach. [smile]

As to the weight and the head, yeah but I'd like to watch the video. Did the front hip joint or the head move forward during shoulder rotation? If not, and she's raking, and her time from first move of the bat head into the swing plane till contact is .16 seconds or below, I'd probably leave her alone as you said before. If I'm in the process of helping her build a swing, I'd want the hips more forward and the head farther back with respect to the catcher.

Much as I'm not inclined to, a word in Dobson's defense. Kids don't always do, for good and bad, what they are taught and trained to do. Arguing the other side now, if he put this on the front of some of his materials, you would think he would pick his idea of perfection for that pic.

Thanks for the conversation.

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Mark H
bluedog

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Reply with quote  #98 
And, I know not all the LSU players always swing like Dobson teaches............Some know what he teaches is inefficient, don't buy into it, and go about their business like they want and get away with it..............Others don't - they get the bench.............. 
Mark_H

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Reply with quote  #99 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluedog
Sure........But, they should make the decision as to what route they will take and not be forced into someone else's decision...........


Most often I'd agree with you, but it works for Lotief. With rare exception, his kids swing his way and with great success.

At the level I was discussing, yeah, I agree with you. In any case, if a kid and parental units, below college, don't buy into the idea of change, it won't happen anyway.

I know of a coach who started a 16U team with the stipulation don't join up unless you were going to put your swing in his hands. As you might expect, he ended up with some decent athletes with rec level skills. Most of them rake now. I think it must be very satisfying for him to see a former rec player who will now play in college at some level. LSU ought to hire him or his mentor. But now I've wandered off down a bunny trail.

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Mark H
LSUROY

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Reply with quote  #100 
THIS GUY GRINDZ. What div 1 college team does he coach and how many times has he took a team to the wcws. As far as Bluedog he has been bashing Howard Dobson for years.
Mark_H

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Reply with quote  #101 
I see AP's wrist rolling just prior to contact. His head and his front hip do not move forward during shoulder rotation. With few exceptions, I'd use an elite ML hitter as the measure of what's right. Bagwell and Ichiro excepted. Unless you are trying to do, on the left side what Ichiro does. Then yeah, he would be the measure.
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Mark H
bluedog

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Reply with quote  #102 
Mark said...........
Quote:
Most often I'd agree with you, but it works for Lotief. With rare exception, his kids swing his way and with great success. 


Mark, I  see you used with "rare exception".......[smile].......I'm glad you did............I can say, as an absolute fact, that Michael doesn't wholesale change a player's swing who can hit...........
Mark_H

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Reply with quote  #103 
Quote:
Originally Posted by LSUROY
THIS GUY GRINDZ. What div 1 college team does he coach and how many times has he took a team to the wcws. As far as Bluedog he has been bashing Howard Dobson for years.


To the extent he argues specifics, especially mechanical specifics, more power to him. If he gets shown to be wrong, we will all have learned something. If he's right, we will have all learned something. I don't recall him saying Dobson was a bad guy. He just disagrees with Dobson's idea of what an efficient elite swing is. I can live with that. I can live with him arguing with me as long as it's specifics. Especially if he doesn't contradict the laws of physics like some on various fastpitch message boards are wont to do. [wink] I have no problem with bluedog.

I have no problem with Grindz taking issue with Dobson's mechanics ideas or some such. I'm not comfortable with criticizing the players the way he has here. Saying a kid hasn't shown him the ability to compete at this level is as negative as I'm comfortable with.

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Mark H
Mark_H

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Reply with quote  #104 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluedog
Mark said...........


Mark, I see you used the "rare exception"..............I'm glad you did............I can say, as an absolute fact, that Michael doesn't wholesale change a player's swing who can hit...........


I have seen him leave a kid alone. But not often. One cannot argue with his success. Especially since he frequently does it with the kids other top programs didn't romance hard. I think he may have been the first to say, in fp, we are going to hit the ball over that fence right there as our hitting approach. When he first did it, that was heresy of the highest order in fp. Good for him!

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Mark H
bluedog

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Reply with quote  #105 
LSUROY, glad to see you posting................Missed ya!
3leftturns

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Reply with quote  #106 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark_H


Maybe I shouldn't mention it lest someone teach it or anyone freak out but elite hitters are frequently slightly wrist rolled at contact.

Yes, pronation is the natural movement. If it occurs before contact because you are too far in front... well, you had better hope for a bad hop
3leftturns

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Reply with quote  #107 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark_H


I have seen him leave a kid alone. But not often. One cannot argue with his success. Especially since he frequently does it with the kids other top programs didn't romance hard. I think he may have been the first to say, in fp, we are going to hit the ball over that fence right there as our hitting approach. When he first did it, that was heresy of the highest order in fp. Good for him!
That may all be true.... but they are hammering on crap pitching for 90 percent of the year. Just a fact
bluedog

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Reply with quote  #108 
This is fair to say, 'cause it's true..............
lovsofbal

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Reply with quote  #109 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3leftturns
Yes, pronation is the natural movement. If it occurs before contact because you are too far in front... well, you had better hope for a bad hop



you got that right 3LT. any chopper my daughter hit was because of immature wrist roll before contact
Mark_H

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Reply with quote  #110 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3leftturns
Yes, pronation is the natural movement. If it occurs before contact because you are too far in front... well, you had better hope for a bad hop


What if it occurs before contact when you were right on time like the AP clip earlier in the thread?

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Mark H
Mark_H

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Reply with quote  #111 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluedog
This is fair to say, 'cause it's true..............
They are still the team higher ranked teams don't want to see in the playoffs.

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Mark H
SmileyAnders

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Reply with quote  #112 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark_H
Being a Cajun fan I might feel a little differently [wink]


Why? The Tigers are a superior program that dominated the Cajuns in regionals after giving them a mulligan. 
Lovepurplelivegold

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Reply with quote  #113 
Ok there's no need for the LSU/ Louisiana debate. Both have great programs While LSU has pitching, Louisiana has great hitting. Every team has a place it struggles in and for LSU it's hitting and defense. It's not like coach Torina is going out of her way to make LSU bad. She's brought them to 3 straight WCWS with last year being the hardest having to get through Louisiana and FSU to get there. You have to realize that LSU had a lineup full of underclassmen. Landry and Jaquish were the best players and we all knew what Quinn gave and she was the leader of the team. She fired up the team that led to many wins. Doyle and Springfield will make adjustments. Springfield hit 11 home runs while having a terrible year. She will improve. LSU will be fine. They will find a way. Don't we all remember Coach Torina's first year as head coach? LSU literally had almost no offense whatsoever and still made it to the World Series. AJ Andrews hit .215 that year, look at her now. Players transfer. It happens. We wish the beast of luck to Smith, Dawson, and Satchell. LSU is doing just fine in the recruiting process. Antoine and Sunseri will be great. Before we put down LSU, let them at least play a game first. Many teams wish that they can say that they have went to the WCWS three times straight. Let's just be grateful.
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donald
SmileyAnders

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Reply with quote  #114 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lovepurplelivegold
Ok there's no need for the LSU/ Louisiana debate.

Whatever, I didn't start it. Some wacko made the thread and some people came out of the caves they've been in since late May to keep the thread going. 
CajunAmos

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Reply with quote  #115 
Teams are judged at the end of the season, not before the season starts. JMO
3leftturns

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Reply with quote  #116 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark_H


What if it occurs before contact when you were right on time like the AP clip earlier in the thread?
I don't see any pronation prior to contact there
3leftturns

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Reply with quote  #117 

Stop it at 12-second mark



Top hand hasn't started rolling yet. Perfect 15-degree MLB uppercut to meet a pitch head-on. Boom

MAXX

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Reply with quote  #118 
Back to your caves.....

[giphy] 
Grindz

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Reply with quote  #119 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lovepurplelivegold
Ok there's no need for the LSU/ Louisiana debate. Both have great programs While LSU has pitching, Louisiana has great hitting. Every team has a place it struggles in and for LSU it's hitting and defense. It's not like coach Torina is going out of her way to make LSU bad. She's brought them to 3 straight WCWS with last year being the hardest having to get through Louisiana and FSU to get there. You have to realize that LSU had a lineup full of underclassmen. Landry and Jaquish were the best players and we all knew what Quinn gave and she was the leader of the team. She fired up the team that led to many wins. Doyle and Springfield will make adjustments. Springfield hit 11 home runs while having a terrible year. She will improve. LSU will be fine. They will find a way. Don't we all remember Coach Torina's first year as head coach? LSU literally had almost no offense whatsoever and still made it to the World Series. AJ Andrews hit .215 that year, look at her now. Players transfer. It happens. We wish the beast of luck to Smith, Dawson, and Satchell. LSU is doing just fine in the recruiting process. Antoine and Sunseri will be great. Before we put down LSU, let them at least play a game first. Many teams wish that they can say that they have went to the WCWS three times straight. Let's just be grateful.



Sunseri has a long road ahead to be "great" 

Doyle isn't an SEC caliber player

Springfield has some ability but needs to cut the strikeouts

What makes you think LSU is doing fine in the recruiting process? 

Dobson interferes way too much with a lot of the hitters. Most of them and I mean like 80-90% of the team feel more uncomfortable with what he is telling them to do. Most know its not a very effective one. 

I am curious what Beth has in mind with the transfers and if Sanchez has a leash. She literally gets to play no matter how poor her performances are

He completely killed Doyle's swing she had from travel ball years, its not even the same player

TheNarrator

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Reply with quote  #120 
I'm confused - in one post you say he lets them go and they don't make adjustments, and in another you say he messes up all their swings.

Which is it?

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