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keepinitreal

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Reply with quote  #61 
The name of the thread is Welfare reform.  another straw man attempt at changing the subject to UE and SS.
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"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
mikec

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Reply with quote  #62 
I don't think SS retirees who have worked their whole life and now draw benefits are moochers.  I thought I had said that before, but maybe not.

People who can not find a job, and have some found some quack to qualify them as disabled, so they can draw checks, are moochers.  Before you say that doesn't happen - I can tell you, I have relatives that brag about it.  It happens.

As for guns - I didn't say take away, I said limit access to.  There is a difference.

As for the story - I actually don't think some folks want to eliminate the fraud.  That's a 1,000 18-22 year old voters you'd alienate, and I suspect some folks feel it's worth the price.

On to my beloved alma mater and some bball....
Dewey

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Reply with quote  #63 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikec
I don't think SS retirees who have worked their whole life and now draw benefits are moochers.  I thought I had said that before, but maybe not.

People who can not find a job, and have some found some quack to qualify them as disabled, so they can draw checks, are moochers.  Before you say that doesn't happen - I can tell you, I have relatives that brag about it.  It happens.
As for guns - I didn't say take away, I said limit access to.  There is a difference.
As for the story - I actually don't think some folks want to eliminate the fraud.  That's a 1,000 18-22 year old voters you'd alienate, and I suspect some folks feel it's worth the price.


mikec - So this thread is about a small percentage of Americans who take advantage of the system.  What is the solution?  I'm on board.

Guns, woody had a list of arms where access is denied.  I admit my list may be somewhat different than his but the philosophy sure has similarities.

Finally, I would like to try and convince you Democrats do not favor rich or poor people abusing our system.  Not sure if I can but I'd like to try.
Dewey

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Reply with quote  #64 
CoachB - Whatever the level you believe abuse to be, my understanding is the States administer most of these programs.  Are you saying States want this abuse too?  Again, what's the solution as I may be on board?
keepinitreal

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Reply with quote  #65 
Quote:
Originally Posted by CoachB25
I'm going to guess that at least a third of the disabled are not and of the welfare recipients, I'd guess half are ripping off America and could be working.  Again, unlike many I'm not ignorant at to what really happens with these people.  I grew up in the culture and know how hey perpetuate it. 
 



spot on sir




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"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
Dewey

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Reply with quote  #66 
OK, we have two of you who agree.  Now what's it mean and what should we do?  Are you proposing we not subsidize the poor with extra food benefits?
Dewey

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Reply with quote  #67 
CoachB - Got it.  Now what should we do to cover the poor?  Stop the SNAP program?  Please know I don't believe you can have any real idea how high the percentage of abuse is.  It's like me saying I think 80% of rich people are cheating on their taxes.  How would I know?
keepinitreal

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Reply with quote  #68 
Quote:
Originally Posted by CoachB25
Dewey, you ask me about the states knowing that I live in Illinois?  Have you heard about Chicago?  No doubt that these entitlements are traded off for votes. 


It is a crying shame to America that such a state [Illinois] has fallen to the dark side.  Illinois has such a strong history of farming [including livestock], self reliance and holding it's own.  When I think of Illinois, I think of Heartland.  I was upset when my county went blue this last election, if my whole state went blue I would move.  Sorry for your loss Coach

__________________
"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
keepinitreal

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Reply with quote  #69 
Updated: 29 July 2012

Some individuals are abusing SNAP benefits

 

Gazette columnist Jennifer Hemmingsen laments that some in Washington want to ramp down spending for food stamps (“Attacks on SNAP shameful,” June 20).

Hemmingsen must have a bad memory. Or she was born last night.

Doesn’t she recall the series of front page articles in the Des Moines Register two years ago revealing that 30 percent of prisoners in the Polk County Jail were receiving food stamps?

What does she make of a local Hy-Vee store manager’s call a few years ago to the local Department of Human Services office? The manager reported that a few minutes earlier some food stamp recipients had been in the store and had bought organic milk, the really expensive stuff that comes in glass bottles. The manager went on to report that these people were now in the parking lot, dumping the milk and returning the empties for the bottle deposit refund, in cash, of course.

But the coup de grace was reported two months ago by noted historian and author, Warren Kozak. He was behind a woman in line to check out at a grocery. Her sole purchase was an ice cream birthday cake, a $41 cake. You guessed it, paid for with a government SNAP card.

Yes, we have a responsibility to help others to eat. But are we now supposed to sponsor their birthday parties, too?

Rich Zeis

Walker

From Iowa.  30% of an inmate population receiving food stamps?  WOW!!  Lady buying $41 ice cream cake with a SNAP card

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"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
Dewey

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Reply with quote  #70 
The vast majority of SNAP recipients are in households with children, seniors, or disabled citizens.

SNAP has one of the most rigorous payment error measurement systems of any public benefit program.  Each year states pull a representative sample (totaling about 50,000 cases nationally) and thoroughly review the accuracy of their eligibility and benefit decisions.  Federal officials re-review a subsample of the cases to ensure accuracy in the error rates.  States are subject to fiscal penalties if their error rates are persistently higher than the national average.


I'm still trying to figure out the purpose of these posts.  What is it you want done instead?
keepinitreal

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Reply with quote  #71 

I just saved a whole bunch of time.

Thank you watchdog.org

Arizona: A 15-month investigation found roughly $700-K in EBT fraud. 18 indictments.

California: $69 million in EBT funds withdrawn outside the state’s borders in recent years, including almost $12 million withdrawn in Las Vegas.

Colorado: EBT cards used at strip clubs, casinos. Denver Post editorializes that attempts to crack down on fraud might not be worth it.

Connecticut: 27 state workers fired, 10 others retire after investigation finds massive insider fraud by government bureaucrats.

Florida: Investigators find that sales of EBT cards at less than full value results in a $2-million swindle.

Georgia: Man pleads guilty to EBT card scam valued at $4.6 million, believed to be largest food stamp fraud ever in the state.

Illinois: Sting on “LINK” cards believed to have generated $40,000 monthly revenue for one of the families accused of participating in the alleged fraud ring.

Indiana: State worker accused of issuing EBT cards to fake recipients. Also, police arrest five in EBT scam believed to have netted $100-K.

Iowa: Grocer, a former City Council member, convicted of witness tampering during food stamp investigation and trial. In a separate story, Iowa inmates found to have been illegally receiving food stamp benefits while incarcerated.

Kansas: Authorities believe as many as 7,000 fraudulent users of EBT cards are costing the state $22-million.

Louisiana: Eight arrested in food stamp fraud. In late 2011, the state said it had 474 active investigations into possible EBT fraud/abuse.

Maine: “Tip of the iceberg” investigation nets five indictments.

Maryland: Believed to be No. 2 in the nation in EBT card fraud, with one in four card applications “showing evidence of fraud.”

Massachusetts: Stores accused of buying EBT cards at discounted prices, and hooking up EBT card users with crack cocaine dealers.

Missouri: Welfare cards being spent in such distant places as Florida and Hawaii.

New Hampshire: Report says 10 percent of all registered food stamp recipients live out of state.

Ohio: Audit finds 33,000 replacement EBT cards ordered in one year. “[M]ore than 1,500 people in Hamilton County have ordered 10 replacement cards or more since 2006.”

Texas: State faced $4 million in federal fines for errors in issuing food stamps.

Washington: Store owner sentenced to 21 months in prison: $170,000 in her bank account on the day of the raid.

Wisconsin: Nine county workers suspected in multi-year fraud that scammed $300-K or more.

 


__________________
"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
keepinitreal

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Posts: 23,776
Reply with quote  #72 
dewey you keep talking like politicians WANT to do something about welfare abuse.  This is the base of the democratic party, more on the dole than not.  Just like you will not remove guns from America, you will not remove the government teat from these folks piehole.  They are 'hooked' on government dependency and there is no solution.  We are forever responsible to fill the government teat with goodies.  There is no solution, that is the story.  Votes are tied to TANF EBT cards, I think there is more abuse there.  Follow the money [EBT].  TANF is different from SNAP and WIC.  My major issue with SNAP is that they can be used at KFC, Pizza Hut, Burger King and for $41 ice cream cakes.
__________________
"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
Dewey

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Posts: 24,423
Reply with quote  #73 
keepinitreal - Twenty of the last 32 years, these laws have been signed by Republican Presidents.  This is not about buying votes despite the repetitive claim.  Yes, there will be waste in these programs, there will be waste in Government, there will be waste in Corporations, there will cheating by wealthy taxpayers, there will be consumer abuse by banks, and so on and so on.  I repeat:

SNAP has one of the most rigorous payment error measurement systems of any public benefit program.  Each year states pull a representative sample (totaling about 50,000 cases nationally) and thoroughly review the accuracy of their eligibility and benefit decisions. 

I'm sure all programs have some oversight but no doubt people can find examples of abuse like you have posted.  Ask the GOP to fund more oversight and see where it gets you.  Again, we should work hard to remove abuse where we can find it but I still don't know what you are hoping to accomplish with your posts.  Nevermind, as soon as I finished typing that I remembered you will say, "nothing, I'm just venting my frustration."  OK, I keep forgetting that.  I have a bad case of assuming something constructive is the goal and I need to find a way to get past this.
Dewey

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Reply with quote  #74 
CoachB - So you are for an end to these assistance programs.  Kudos to you for clearly stating your position.  Unfortunately, you won't get my vote but I appreciate the response. 
Dewey

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Reply with quote  #75 
CoachB - When was that?
Dewey

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Reply with quote  #76 
CoachB - You're referring to the post where you told everyone I was fine with our Country's debt.  Not sure how this relates to today's exchange but I guess it's not important now.  Plus I never said I was fine with our debt but that's old news.  If those in here who enjoy talking politics would simply define their position, this would be a whole lot easier.  Until you did so today, woody is generally the only one willing to take a stand.  Ask him if Boehner will bring a fiscal bill to vote and he will answer.  When I asked what Republicans should go for in the fiscal bill or if the Nascar exemption should or should not have been part of the final bill, (well he may have ignored these), but compared to everyone else, he's more willing to stand up and state his position.  It was nice to see you do the same today.  From my perspective, that's the only reason to do any of this.  Take a position and substantiate or stand behind it.  Educate the readers with our perspectives and let them weigh them for what they're worth.  I kind of think it's interesting.
JoiseyGuy

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Reply with quote  #77 
Coach B25 - If your description of a confrontation at a drive thru is accurate and what you maintain constitutes the general method of thinking and acting  in your town, I would not want to live in or anywhere near your narrow minded, bumper sticker mentality town.  To me it constitutes more of a clannish or cult like method of thinking than a representative group of Americans.  Are you sure that this took place in the democracy which the USA is supposed to be?    Frank
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"Freethinkers are those who are willing to use their minds without prejudice and without fearing to understand things that clash with their own customs, privileges, or beliefs. This state of mind is not common, but it is essential for right thinking. Where it is absent discussion is apt to become worse than useless." Leo Tolstoy

"Do not try to teach pigs to sing. It will frustrate you and infuriate the pigs who will unite in anger against you, and you will never achieve singing your song". Dr. Petersen
Dewey

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Reply with quote  #78 
Quote:
Originally Posted by CoachB25

Dewey, the post where you said that I was putting words in your mouth.  Will I have to go back and cut and paste it?


Darrell


Here, I'll do it for you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CoachB25
Today was not a good day for America.  This is a minimum 4 trillion dollar deal.  So, the debt for the U.S. at the end of Obama's reign will be 21 trillion.  While Dewey is fine with that...
Dewey

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Reply with quote  #79 
Quote:
Originally Posted by CoachB25


To be clear, I believe that there is need for assistance for some people and don't have a problem with it. 


CoachB - No no no.  After all the kudos I gave you for being so clear, you now want to change it up. Fair enough, looks like you now have the same position as me and want some oversight to make certain food stamp abuse is addressed.  Is that the case or do you want to further explain how you and I might differ? 

I think people at or just above the poverty level should be supplemented.  I think most will use the money wisely to feed their families but I agree some will use the money for booze instead.  I think we should make this against the law and follow up where possible.  We have laws against speeding but people still speed.  All we can do is put our best effort forward, continuously work on improving it, and go from there.  If you have a rule change to add to your position, please share it.
woody

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Reply with quote  #80 
Poverty, and living 4 generations on public assistance, is a way of life many have chosen over the daily struggle to work, and better oneself. It's easier to hang out, and get a check, and an ETB Card, than wake up and grind it out working each day. If you build it, they will come.
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Rats flee from the sinking vessel. They traverse nimbly upon a rope, safely cleated to the dock, that is private enterprise. Socialism is dead, and tits up in the water. A bloated, death show, for rubberneckers of all classes to view.

"IT'S GOOD TO BE DA KING"
Dewey

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Reply with quote  #81 
woody - Is that a recommendation that all assistance be ended?  If not, how will you determine who gets what?
keepinitreal

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Reply with quote  #82 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewey
woody - Is that a recommendation that all assistance be ended?  If not, how will you determine who gets what?


Do some kind of public assistance to 'qualify' for public welfare.  Including picking up litter, volunteering at a food shelter, dog pound, school guard crossing, wtf ever.  Just do SOMETHING for the money you are being GIVEN from hard working Americans.  Too much to ask to get off your couch and put down your 40 to do SOMETHING??

__________________
"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
woody

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Reply with quote  #83 
I think the mentally ill, orphans, widows, and battered women and their children deserve our charity as a country. Those that sit on the couch get nothing. Put on your work clothes, and show up for work detail at the county, and get minimum wage pay. Cut out the handouts, they have destroyed many a family, and community, and destroy our nations work ethic, and desire for self reliance.

It is however a great way to buy votes, if your constituency is under educated, lacks any self esteem, and any desire to better their standing in life. The poor are pawns of the Socialist Democratic Party voting apparatus, created with purpose by intellectual leftist, bought and paid for by American taxpayers. Welcome to the Democrat Plantation, where all hope is abandoned, and where cities, towns, communities, and family units come to die.

__________________
Rats flee from the sinking vessel. They traverse nimbly upon a rope, safely cleated to the dock, that is private enterprise. Socialism is dead, and tits up in the water. A bloated, death show, for rubberneckers of all classes to view.

"IT'S GOOD TO BE DA KING"
Dewey

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Posts: 24,423
Reply with quote  #84 
kiir - My understanding is that the vast majority of recipients live in a home with a working income.  In addition, many are poor elderly folks or children of single mothers.  However, for those non-single men receiving assistance and capable of working, I have no problem requiring some kind of effort on their part.  You have my vote on this proposal.
keepinitreal

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Reply with quote  #85 
Quote:
Originally Posted by keepinitreal
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewey
woody - Is that a recommendation that all assistance be ended?  If not, how will you determine who gets what?


Do some kind of public assistance to 'qualify' for public welfare.  Including picking up litter, volunteering at a food shelter, dog pound, school guard crossing, wtf ever.  Just do SOMETHING for the money you are being GIVEN from hard working Americans.  Too much to ask to get off your couch and put down your 40 to do SOMETHING??


Quote:
I think the mentally ill, orphans, widows, and battered women and their children deserve our charity as a country. Those that sit on the couch get nothing. Put on your work clothes, and show up for work detail at the county, and get minimum wage pay. Cut out the handouts, they have destroyed many a family, and community, and destroy our nations work ethic, and desire for self reliance.

It is however a great way to buy votes, if your constituency is under educated, lacks any self esteem, and any desire to better their standing in life. The poor are pawns of the Socialist Democratic Party voting apparatus, created with purpose by intellectual leftist, bought and paid for by American taxpayers.


We are making progress, dewey is on board, but the democratic voting machine will not allow for this work stipulation


__________________
"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
Dewey

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Posts: 24,423
Reply with quote  #86 
kiir - I don't think these are new ideas and work requirement has been part of the law.  I don't know anyone who wants to give able bodied men money money to sit on the couch.  I admit we often give their children assistance and we do give these men funding if they cannot find work. That said, these men are supposed to search for work and if you think we aren't enforcing this enough, then let's work on correcting this rather than debating whether there is really work available for these guys or not.
keepinitreal

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Reply with quote  #87 
woody, I don't think they should work for us for minimum pay, I think they should work for their EBT cards.

dewey, I doubt children and single mothers are the most flagrant violators at the hookah shops, strip clubs, porn studios and liquor stores.  This abuse seems as clear as the nose on your face.  You still seem to doubt "if we aren't enforcing this enough then let's work on correcting".  I don't think this, I KNOW this.

__________________
"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
Dewey

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Posts: 24,423
Reply with quote  #88 
kiir - I can only repeat the same thing over and over.  Help the needy and try to weed out those abusing the system.  I'm willing to contribute to funding both the help and the oversight.  We have put work requirements in the law too.  I can't figure out what more you want this Country to do unless it's to say there should be no assistance at all.  You have no argument with the other side when it comes to helping only the deserving.  I do understand the deserving may be subject to the actions of the adult receiving the funds but, again, all we can do is monitor this to the best of our ability, (the article I linked yesterday pointed out the vast numbers of recipients that came under review annually), and hopefully keep your abuse examples to a minimum.   
keepinitreal

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Reply with quote  #89 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewey
and hopefully keep your abuse examples to a minimum.   


Why I ask?  Don't read the post if you think it's something you won't approve of

__________________
"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
Dewey

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Posts: 24,423
Reply with quote  #90 
kiir - Come on, read more carefully.  I'm saying with oversight maybe we can reduce the number of abuses you cited.  Wasn't being critical of you pointing out fraud, misuse, etc.  I have no reason to doubt any of your examples.  I might question the percentage level of abuse but I'm sure everything you listed are things we should review and try to correct.
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