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keepinitreal

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Reply with quote  #91 
I presumed one way on your intent, fully well knowing that may have been inaccurate.  I understand your point dewey. 

You need to understand our point that this is a vote buying strategy.  If you will not admit that then I am done conversing on the matter.  I will go back to posting examples with no dialog about it.

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"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
Dewey

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Reply with quote  #92 
Quote:
Originally Posted by keepinitreal


You need to understand our point that this is a vote buying strategy.  If you will not admit that then I am done conversing on the matter.  I will go back to posting examples with no dialog about it.


Fine, but that doesn't change what your solution would be.  Woody says help those that deserve it.  I say that too.
keepinitreal

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Reply with quote  #93 
I am for those and very few others.  LIMITED exceptions, 

from woody:

Quote:
the mentally ill, orphans, widows, and battered women and their children deserve our charity





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"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
Dewey

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Reply with quote  #94 
I'd include the elderly who are poor, children of parents who don't earn enough, working individuals who are still at or near poverty levels with regards to earnings and assets, the disabled who can't work, individuals who try but can't find work, and others that don't come to mind right now.
woody

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Reply with quote  #95 
Quote:
Originally Posted by keepinitreal
woody, I don't think they should work for us for minimum pay, I think they should work for their EBT cards.

dewey, I doubt children and single mothers are the most flagrant violators at the hookah shops, strip clubs, porn studios and liquor stores.  This abuse seems as clear as the nose on your face.  You still seem to doubt "if we aren't enforcing this enough then let's work on correcting".  I don't think this, I KNOW this.


They don't get an EBT card, they get minimum wage for their labor, and maybe some incentive, to land a job that pays more.

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Rats flee from the sinking vessel. They traverse nimbly upon a rope, safely cleated to the dock, that is private enterprise. Socialism is dead, and tits up in the water. A bloated, death show, for rubberneckers of all classes to view.

"IT'S GOOD TO BE DA KING"
woody

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Reply with quote  #96 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewey
I'd include the elderly who are poor, children of parents who don't earn enough, working individuals who are still at or near poverty levels with regards to earnings and assets, the disabled who can't work, individuals who try but can't find work, and others that don't come to mind right now.


In other words, keep the welfare state, and the voters it buys, intact. Sounds like a captive group, dependent on handouts from their handlers, not free citizens striving for success. 

__________________
Rats flee from the sinking vessel. They traverse nimbly upon a rope, safely cleated to the dock, that is private enterprise. Socialism is dead, and tits up in the water. A bloated, death show, for rubberneckers of all classes to view.

"IT'S GOOD TO BE DA KING"
keepinitreal

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Reply with quote  #97 
TTT.  I dont' think dewey let this sink in

Quote:
Originally Posted by keepinitreal
 
 
 

“I am for doing good to the poor, but...I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it. I observed...that the more public provisions were made for the poor, the less they provided for themselves, and of course became poorer. And, on the contrary, the less was done for them, the more they did for themselves, and became richer.”


Benjamin Franklin

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"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
Dewey

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Reply with quote  #98 
keepinitreal - You agreed with woody's list, when it came to who deserves our support, but who would you remove from my list?
woody

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Reply with quote  #99 
It isn't about helping people, it is about creating, and sustaining a block of Democrat voters, and having the taxpayers fund that group.
__________________
Rats flee from the sinking vessel. They traverse nimbly upon a rope, safely cleated to the dock, that is private enterprise. Socialism is dead, and tits up in the water. A bloated, death show, for rubberneckers of all classes to view.

"IT'S GOOD TO BE DA KING"
keepinitreal

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Reply with quote  #100 
Elderly are taken care of with SS benefits, Medicare etc...  Welfare reform and elderly do not belong in the same conversation to me.  I do not equate SS with 'welfare' rolls and you continuously want to lump them together.  A classic liberal ploy i.e. throwing Granny off the cliff.  going to go smoke a cigar [translated:  tiring of the diversions]
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"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
Dewey

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Reply with quote  #101 
Elderly with no resources and less than $900 income get SNAP.  I've got no problem with this and not sure what cigar has to do with anything.  Just a polite way to let somebody know I'm out for awhile.  You sure do have a lot of problems with somebody if they don't think the same way as you don't you?  It is what it is I suppose.
woody

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Reply with quote  #102 
What elderly person in America, that receives SS, or a State funded retirement fund, or RR employee retirement, gets less than $900 a month? What elderly citizen in the US doesn't receive SS, and or Medicare or another pension?? I suppose a widow, that never worked, and is receiving a survivors benefit might fall into this category, but aside from this small group of people, illegal aliens collecting SNAP benefits, intended for citizens of the US, are the only persons I can think of. Please clarify what Elderly people you are talking about Dewey.
__________________
Rats flee from the sinking vessel. They traverse nimbly upon a rope, safely cleated to the dock, that is private enterprise. Socialism is dead, and tits up in the water. A bloated, death show, for rubberneckers of all classes to view.

"IT'S GOOD TO BE DA KING"
Dewey

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Reply with quote  #103 
Quote:
Originally Posted by woody
What elderly person in America, that receives SS, or a State funded retirement fund, or RR employee retirement, gets less than $900 a month?


I'm talking about elderly people who qualify.  Here, you can read about qualifications

More here: http://feedingamerica.org/how-we-fight-hunger/programs-and-services/public-assistance-programs/supplemental-nutrition-assistance-program/snap-myths-realities.aspx
keepinitreal

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Reply with quote  #104 
I guess I need more examples of where we need welfare reform.  I thought I had made it clear but I'll get back to work now.  Nowhere in this thread has someone mentioned the elderly in the discussion of welfare reform until dewey brought them up. 

These are the types of diversions that the left like to play.  They will what if you to death and in the meantime nothing gets done.  Just the way they plan it.

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"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
keepinitreal

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Reply with quote  #105 
There should also be drug testing included in welfare reform.

Drugs in the Welfare System

There is much talk about restructuring our welfare system. In the past few decades there has been a general feeling that the welfare system is abused by many. This happens when people are given assistance with little expected of them in return; such as not requiring any long term plan to get a job and support themselves. A number of states have been in the spotlight recently for bills that would implement random drug testing for all welfare recipients. This is because some feel too many people use their state income to support their drug habit.

Against the Drug Testing

Some people are strongly against drug testing welfare recipients. Their argument is: “Holding benefit recipients accountable is an attack on women, children and the poor”. (1) They feel the cost of testing and enforcing a no-drug policy would be too overwhelming. They also say that too many children would suffer for the mistakes of their parents that are kicked out of the system.

In Favor of Drug Testing

Those people who are in favor of the legislation want to prevent drug users from getting public benefits. Their points include: “The bill would prevent the public from subsidizing recipients’ drug habits.” ” What’s really heartless is to leave defenseless children in the care of parents who can’t control their drug habits and, hence, can’t care for their children.” “Welfare should not be a right, but simply the result of the implementation of good public policy that helps them to become productive citizens that are not a burden to society.” (1)

Many people on this side of the matter also believe in providing treatment to those individuals that test positive for drugs to help them get sober. It is not good enough to withhold food stamps and benefits from drug addicts. They feel we need to identify these people and help them get better so they can help support themselves.

Dual Diagnosis

Things tend to get muddy when we add dual diagnosis cases into things. Many people worry that cutting someone’s benefits if they test positive for drugs will negatively affect those with dual diagnosis. Arguably, someone with a mental health disorder needs assistance and medical help for their condition. But when substance abuse is present along with the mental health issues, it is very hard to separate the co-occurring disorders. Therefore, many believe that coverage should be maintained for these patients, while they are getting treatment for both the mental disorders and drug or alcohol addiction.

Welfare wasn’t designed to take the place of someone’s income while they go out and spend their money on drugs or alcohol. But cutting someone with an addiction problem completely off of all benefits will only make them search out and find other ways to get their drugs. We need to find a good way to get substance abuse treatment for those in the welfare system so that they do not continue to waste their lives and our money away on drugs.

Sources

(1) Drug stamps: Testing isn’t cruel

States Pass Bills Mandating Drug Testing for Welfare Recipients

Ruling may help clear up dual diagnosis disability benefits issues

Social Security: Disability Based On Drug Addiction Or Alcoholism

Drug stamps: Testing isn’t cruel





http://www.treatmentsolutions.com/drugs-in-the-welfare-system/



__________________
"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
woody

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Reply with quote  #106 
So its not really $900 a month to qualify, its $1211.00 a month, to get a handout.
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Rats flee from the sinking vessel. They traverse nimbly upon a rope, safely cleated to the dock, that is private enterprise. Socialism is dead, and tits up in the water. A bloated, death show, for rubberneckers of all classes to view.

"IT'S GOOD TO BE DA KING"
Dewey

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Reply with quote  #107 
I used the "net" number.  The rest goes to Medicare.
mikec

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Reply with quote  #108 
The only issue with these last several posts requiring work is that the POTUS recently relaxed this requirement, and expanded the definition of attempting to find work. 

Maybe this difference between Dewey and the POTUS is one of those examples between a left leaning Democrat (Dewey) and a redistributionist, socialist (Obama).
Dewey

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Reply with quote  #109 
mikec - Except for the fact he was giving the States more say as they requested.


keepinitreal

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Reply with quote  #110 
Turn your speakers on.



http://audio.wrko.com/a/34625564/welfare-cards-at-the-liquor-store.htm

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"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
mikec

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Reply with quote  #111 
Quote:
Originally Posted by keepinitreal
Turn your speakers on.



Sorry to threadjack, but this made me chuckle.  I always have sound disabled on my computer.  My wife watches lots of videos, TV shows, and news programs online, and always has the sound on, usually loud, so she can listen while she's doing something else.

I just about wet myself everytime I use her computer, since just about every website has some video commercial these days, which scare the poop out of me when I'm her machine.

Now back to your regular programming.....
keepinitreal

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Reply with quote  #112 
that's cool mike.  The audio is fairly long, probably too long for most, it's a Massachusetts webcast.  I was just interested in hearing that the abuse is everywhere.  The audio is from 2010, they mention the abuse has been going on since 2008, giving states until 2014 to remove these ATM from vice locations says a lot about progress in this country.
__________________
"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
keepinitreal

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Reply with quote  #113 

Govt. subsidized housing still causing chaos

Riot erupts over section 8 housing vouchers in Detroit suburb

 
- Robert Laurie Sunday, January 13, 2013

Rioting over government-subsidized section 8 housing vouchers is a phenomenon we’ve seen before. Last year in Ohio, chaos erupted when thousands appeared at a voucher giveaway that was expected to draw only hundreds.  This morning, Taylor Michigan - a suburb on Detroit’s Southwest side - experienced a similar violent conflict. This time, however, it was on a much larger scale.

 

Crowds at the Taylor Human Services Center had been lined up since yesterday evening in the hopes of receiving federal Section 8 housing vouchers. When the lights inside the building came on, the line dissolved and the mob charged the doors.  Staffers locked the building and called police while chaos reigned outside.

As was the case in Ohio, it seems potential turnout was underestimated.  Taylor Human Services was expecting 1000 people to show up but, by this morning, there were roughly 5,000 waiting.  At that point, the line stretched a full mile down a nearby thoroughfare. 

City officials tried to control the mob but were overwhelmed by rioters. As things spiraled out of control, police from multiple surrounding cities were called in to assist and reports suggest they requested the Michigan State Police bring riot gear to pacify the situation.  There’s no word on whether they responded to the call.

Needless to say, the housing voucher giveaway has been cancelled and will likely be rescheduled.

Robert Laurie’s column is distributed by CainTV, which can be found at caintv.com


__________________
"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
Dewey

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Reply with quote  #114 
From my perspective, I suspect the businesses that pay employees under the table are a far greater expense to taxpayers than any cheating by the small percentage of those in need. When you consider the vast numbers of businesses helping employees qualify for assistance, as low income earners, because no income is reported, raping the Unemployment fund of resources by not paying their share of unemployment taxes, and cheating the entitlement programs out of substantial funds by avoiding payroll taxes, the numbers must be staggering.  I'm guessing it is the largest cost of welfare fraud.  This would also include self employed businesses, landscapers, handymen, landlords, flea market wholesalers, etc.  Some times the parasites live high on the hog, if you know what I mean.
woody

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Reply with quote  #115 
Well, if employers were required to use E Verify, not only for employees, but subcontractors, this would come to a sudden stop. If you only knew what was happening in the construction industry in Texas, you would come around. Soon, many other states, including unionized states, will experience what legitimate companies in Texas, Arizona, California, and Florida have been competing against. I would venture to say that upwards of 50-60% of construction workers in Texas are illegal aliens, working for a subcontractor, whom is at best, in the country on a work visa. Seldom do they provide workers comp, or liability insurance, (they get an initial certificate of insurance, and make no payments, just like auto insurance). The Subcontractor either pays other "subcontractors" under the table, and then maybe do, or don't report income from the General Contractor, or they collect bogus W9 forms from the "subcontractors", mail them a bogus 1099, and leave the bogus subcontractor with the tax liability. E Verify is the solution to this problem. How many politicians with a "Latino" constituency would back this? For that matter, how many Republicans with campaign contributors that own construction companies would support it? If you want to get an instant flow of cash to the treasury, this is the way. Of course, legitimate contractors will cost 30% more. Would you expect the average American to not hire the illegal company? Would Eric Holder fight against a campaign to make E Verify mandatory in the US? He certainly fights against any action to stop illegal immigration, or voter ID laws. Remember, all the illegal aliens whom have flooded across the Southern border, and have had 5 years to get established, are now bringing their entire family here to live with them. Of course they will need government assistance, and their children will require special education services. How long will the rest of the country wait to enforce existing immigration, and tax laws? I guess the other states will wait until it becomes a problem for them. NIMBY thing I suppose.
__________________
Rats flee from the sinking vessel. They traverse nimbly upon a rope, safely cleated to the dock, that is private enterprise. Socialism is dead, and tits up in the water. A bloated, death show, for rubberneckers of all classes to view.

"IT'S GOOD TO BE DA KING"
sbmom1812

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Reply with quote  #116 
Read an article yesterday that mexican population in cali will surpass whites in 2013.  Too many people like Phil Mickelson and small business owners fleaing taxes to pay for the socialist redistribution and power grab.
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Susan
DietCoke

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Reply with quote  #117 
And, alluding somewhat to Dewey's post, maybe this is part of California's (and every state's) problem??

From TEN YEARS ago -

Cash economy threatens wages, tax base
By Beth Barrett Staff Writer
Published: Monday, May 6, 2002 in the Los Angeles Daily News

Los Angeles County's underground cash economy has exploded, jeopardizing public services and new investment and leaving hundreds of thousands of workers without a safety net, according to new economic data and research.

A new study co-authored by Daniel Flaming, president of the Economic Roundtable, a nonprofit, public policy research organization in Los Angeles, estimates that up to 1.5 million of Los Angeles County's workers are now paid in cash — a destabilizing economic trend that runs counter to the rest of California and the country.

The study, supported by data compiled by Los Angeles Mayor James Hahn's economic development team and other experts, has led researchers to estimate about $1.1 billion a year, in violation of the law, is not being paid into Social Security, workers' compensation, health insurance and other social safety net programs to protect workers who become ill, injured or unemployed, or who retire.

The researchers also said low-income employees in the county's underground economy stand to lose an additional $1.5 billion a year by forgoing the federal tax credits for which they otherwise would be eligible.

Up to 28 percent of the work force in the county is paid in cash, meaning as many as one in four don't have federal and state payroll taxes withheld, which creates the kind of economic unpredictability that potential employers tend to avoid, Flaming said.


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“A good leader takes a little more than his share of the blame, a little less than his share of the credit.” Arnold H. Glasow
ForeverInBlue

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Reply with quote  #118 
The failure to enforce immigration laws is effectively a tax on the middle class, and a drain on available resources for legitimate Americans of all nationalities.
Dewey

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Reply with quote  #119 
Almost all of the business owners I see paying employees under the table, have nothing to do with illegal immigration.  These are simply unscrupulous businesses deliberately avoiding their unemployment, Social Security, and Medicare obligations, coupled with helping employees qualify for Government benefits so they're able to be around for the part time work their employer needs them for, as opposed to searching for full time work.  These parasite business practices are, imo, a far greater drain on our resources than the "little fish" so many of you chase daily as the source of our financial troubles.  And this doesn't even mention the lost resources due to mingling personal expenses with business expenses.
DietCoke

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Reply with quote  #120 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewey
Almost all of the business owners I see paying employees under the table, have nothing to do with illegal immigration.  These are simply unscrupulous businesses deliberately avoiding their unemployment, Social Security, and Medicare obligations, coupled with helping employees qualify for Government benefits so they're able to be around for the part time work their employer needs them for, as opposed to searching for full time work.  These parasite business practices are, imo, a far greater drain on our resources than the "little fish" so many of you chase daily as the source of our financial troubles.  And this doesn't even mention the lost resources due to mingling personal expenses with business expenses.


Ditto


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“A good leader takes a little more than his share of the blame, a little less than his share of the credit.” Arnold H. Glasow
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