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sbmom1812

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Reply with quote  #1 
Obama is playing dictator once again.  He is bound and determined to get over that 50% handout threshold before election day.  This is really getting unbelievable.  He totally guts the welfare reform law of 1996 thru the HHS.  I guarantee you he knows he cant do this but it takes, lawsuits, time and money.  The Bast@rd!  The republicans better wake up.  To me Enuf is enuf.  He should be impeached!   

herit.ag/iB1

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Susan
10er

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Reply with quote  #2 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sbmom1812
Obama is playing dictator once again.  He is bound and determined to get over that 50% handout threshold before election day.  This is really getting unbelievable.  He totally guts the welfare reform law of 1996 thru the HHS.  I guarantee you he knows he cant do this but it takes, lawsuits, time and money.  The Bast@rd!  The republicans better wake up.  To me Enuf is enuf.  He should be impeached!   

herit.ag/iB1
I watched President Clinton on a show a couple weeks back & he talked up the welfare reform that happened while he served as one of the Hallmark bills he put forth....wonder what he thinks now???

I am not too sure that President Obama cares much what Clinton did or feels. How about you on the left,,,do you think they are PALS?

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CoachB25

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Reply with quote  #3 
I saw a couple of Governors talking about this.  They state that the HHS does not have the ability to assign waivers to citizens so that they do not have to comply to the law.  In fact, one stated that this is a congressional law that does have a waiver built in to it BUT it is very specific on how one can obtain it.  BTW, the waiver being granted provides that a person on welfare WILL NOT have to be getting job training or make other efforts mandated by the law.
TheDevilisintheDetails

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Reply with quote  #4 
There's more to it, sbmom1812. 

What are the basic concepts of employment and unemployment?

The basic concepts involved in identifying the employed and unemployed are quite simple:

  • People with jobs are employed.
  • People who are jobless, looking for jobs, and available for work are unemployed.
  • People who are neither employed nor unemployed are not in the labor force.
From BLS.  http://www.bls.gov/cps/cps_htgm.htm

By removing the requirement to seek work, you reduce the unemployment number before the election because they are no longer looking for work and are counted as "not in the labor force," and not unemployed.


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bluedog

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Reply with quote  #5 
The unemployment numbers being put out by Obama's administration are a sham....
CoachB25

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Reply with quote  #6 
It isn't even that clear as to who is employed and who is not.  For example, the President is implimenting massive cuts in the military.  I know for sure that the Marine Corps will have 18,000 leave service due to these cuts.  They will not be counted as unemployed.  Factor in the other branches of service and wow are we going to have a massive number of service people enter the search of jobs but of whom are not counted.  Is there even an accurate number of the unemployed not being counted?
bluedog

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Reply with quote  #7 

COSTELLO: I want to talk about the unemployment rate in America.
ABBOTT: Good Subject. Terrible Times. It's 8.1%.
COSTELLO: That many people are out of work?
ABBOTT: No, that's 18%
COSTELLO: You just said 8.1%.
ABBOTT: 8.1% Unemployed.
COSTELLO: Right 8.1% out of work.
ABBOTT: No, that's 18%.
COSTELLO: Okay, so it's 18% unemployed.
ABBOTT: No, that's 8.1%...
COSTELLO: WAIT A MINUTE. Is it 8.1% or 18%?
ABBOTT: 8.1% are unemployed. 18% are out of work.
COSTELLO: IF you are out of work you are unemployed.
ABBOTT: No, you can't count the "Out of Work" as the
unemployed. You have to look for work to be unemployed.
COSTELLO: BUT THEY ARE OUT OF WORK!!!
ABBOTT: No, you miss my point.
COSTELLO: What point?
ABBOTT: Someone who doesn't look for work, can't be counted with those who look for work. It wouldn't be fair.
COSTELLO: To who?
ABBOTT: The unemployed.
COSTELLO: But they are ALL out of work.
ABBOTT: No, the unemployed are actively looking for work... Those who
are out of work stopped looking. They gave up. And, if you give up,
you are no longer in the ranks of the unemployed.
COSTELLO: So if you're off the unemployment roles, that would count as less unemployment?
ABBOTT: Unemployment would go down. Absolutely!
COSTELLO: The unemployment just goes down because you don't look for
work?
ABBOTT: Absolutely it goes down. That's how you get to 8.1%. Otherwise it would be 18%. You don't want to read about 18% unemployment do ya?
COSTELLO: That would be frightening.
ABBOTT: Absolutely.
COSTELLO: Wait, I got a question for you. That means they're two ways
to bring down the unemployment number?
ABBOTT: Two ways is correct.
COSTELLO: Unemployment can go down if someone gets a job?
ABBOTT: Correct.
COSTELLO: And unemployment can also go down if you stop looking for a
job?
ABBOTT: Bingo.
COSTELLO: So there are two ways to bring unemployment down, and the
easier of the two is to just stop looking for work.
ABBOTT: Now you're thinking like a Democrat.
COSTELLO: I don't even know what the hell I just said!

Now you know why Obama's unemployment figures are improving, and you should be able to better understand Obama's news releases.

Dewey

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Reply with quote  #8 
I have an acquaintance who found a good job following some time out of work due to his previous employer closing.  Now that he has returned to work, his wife is no longer searching for a job.  I know older folks who saw their 401 K's value return and decided searching for a job was no longer necessary.  I know baby boomers who decided this was the perfect time to retire.  There are any number of reasons people stop searching for work.

If you don't want to believe the UE numbers, then claim the reports are fraudulent.  If you don't think someone is a citizen, then claim the birth certificate is fraudulent.  But at some point one need ask themselves, are people beginning to question all my skepticism and conspiracy theories?

It appears there is a fear the UE rate may drop soon.  If it falls into the 7's, many Conservatives are not ready to repeat that lower number and the move has begun to claim a higher UE rate than is reported.  I think Ohio has a 5.6% UE rate and I don't hear the Governor claiming it's actually much higher.  Not unlike comedians, whatever plays with your audience is what you run with.

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CoachB25

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Reply with quote  #9 
Dewey, are you suggesting that you believe that there aren't massive numbers of people out of work who aren't being counted?  BTW, those job numbers constantly stated that the President goes and campaigns with seem to be revised downward each month.  It is 7 months in a row and counting.  One month was over projected by 40,000 jobs.  Not a small error.  Intentional?

Still, this thread is about welfare.  I heard again today that the HHS does not have the ability to issue waivers.  This is a law passed by Congress and so, the HHS can not amend the bill.
Dewey

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Reply with quote  #10 
CoachB25 - Are you suggesting the BLS is reporting numbers differently than under the Bush Administration in order to be biased towards this President?  Have you ever heard Gov Kasich claim his UE numbers are higher than what is being presented?  No need to answer, I just wanted to note there are folks out there who believe the reports when presented.  If it is a conspiracy, who's the Government idiot that didn't make the UE report come out 7.9%?
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CoachB25

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Reply with quote  #11 
Dewey, I haven't suggest anything.  I have stated that the numbers BHO touts during his campaign stops has not been accurate for 7 months and counting.  Pretty simple!
CoachB25

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Reply with quote  #12 
Dewey, what is your opinion on the HHS changing the rules of a law passed by Congress?

Nevermind.  I just realized that they are not following the immigration laws of the land so this should be business as normal.  Wonder what that old document was all about that no longer matters?
10er

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Reply with quote  #13 
My hard working & I'll say hard headed oldest Grandson lost his job in energy with Baker-hughes[ cut back], unless he wanted to move to Valley. Looked for 6-8 weeks,found job with a school district & fighting to keep their head above water.
I am going to see him next week. He could have made more if he would have drawn UE & food stamps...what do you tell him? I say he is grandpas boy & i am proud of him working instead. like he tells me," it is a struggle pop,but I feel better about myself'.
he's looking for a second job & his wife is going to school,but will be a couple years before she gets out.

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fhoenix

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Reply with quote  #14 
It is highly likely that true unemployment number are manipulated and masked by this administration......and were by each previous administration as well.
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TheHammer

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Reply with quote  #15 
By the way how is unemployment numbers calculated.????
the only numbers they can calculated is the number of unemployers that get unemployment benefit.
there are many that have already used up their 99 weeks or are illegals.thus the true number of unemployed people is very difficult to know.
sbmom1812

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Reply with quote  #16 
Thanks DITD.  I already understood that, but most in this country do not.  I really am so sick of this guy and his welfare enslavement to empower himself and his cronies.
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TheHammer

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Reply with quote  #17 
sbmom1812, don't you think that both candidates S##k
TheDevilisintheDetails

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Reply with quote  #18 
Quote:
Originally Posted by CoachB25
Dewey, what is your opinion on the HHS changing the rules of a law passed by Congress?

Nevermind.  I just realized that they are not following the immigration laws of the land so this should be business as normal.  Wonder what that old document was all about that no longer matters?


2 weeks ago Obama was railing on Chief Justice Roberts that it was not right to gut a law (Health Care Act) passed by Congress, and last week Obama did just that to Clinton's Health Care Act.  He has no integrity.



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sbmom1812

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Reply with quote  #19 
DITD I question how good Romney will be, but he is definitely better than what we have now.  We have to work hard enough as an electorate over time to really start changing the political game and WASHINGTON WAY.  But we can only blame that on ourselves.  We did not keep watching the chickens in the hen house.  Hopefully enough people will learn or we will be greece if Obama and the likes of Pelosi and Reid have anything to do with it.  
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CoachB25

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Reply with quote  #20 
Quote:
Originally Posted by fhoenix
It is highly likely that true unemployment number are manipulated and masked by this administration......and were by each previous administration as well.


I don't disagree with this other than to assert that missing by  40,000 seems odd at best.  I'm sure every administration makes an effort to put good numbers out there.  Seven months in a row of posting inaccurate numbers poses some big time issues.  Even CNN commented on this last week when commenting on the last job numbers they wondered how those numbers will look in 3 months.  Meaning, how far off they are.
sbmom1812

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Reply with quote  #21 
Heard a report this morning that a single female with kids is better off on welfare now than making $69,000.  I would believe that.  Talk about incentivising welfare and being single.
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Susan
JoiseyGuy

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Reply with quote  #22 
Susan - That is only the tip of the iceberg.  The lack of oversight in our federal entitlement programs (which I favor in theory) is actually criminal.  As a former Senior Visitor in a Department of Public Assistance I can attest to the outright theft that exists from some receiving tax monies.  Of course that is only one federal department.  Equally corrupt is white collar welfare which operates with impunity and without effective oversight, and which is heavily influenced by representatives of big money corporations who consider only their own "rice bowl".  Eisenhower warned, "Beware the Governmental, Military, Industrial Complex".  No one listened.  When you rail against "Big Government" (I agree and define it as unimaginable waste and "I rub your back and you rub mine" corruption), these system corruptions along with financial waste that is mind boggling are the first things that enters my mind.  Now, once again, "Who will bell the cat?" when corruption is defined internally as "business as usual"?  Who is monitoring the "crooks" except those who gain from the system?  This is especially true in White Collar Welfare.  I am in favor of "hands up" but not "hand outs" devoid of effective oversight. Every day on several federal fronts, our citizens are being literally robbed of their tax monies through corrupted agencies and "I'll pay for your election if you pass legislation favorable to my corporation" as well as misuse of power, "The Washington Way".  I can see clearly the problem, but I really don't see any solution except to begin our federal government all over again and separate it as much as is possible from our one value economic system and execute intensive oversight.   
  Frank
PS - I do not think that it is a matter of "Party", but rather of System. I am 80 and will not see corruption in government destroyed, but I do hope that it will be reduced and ultimately curbed to the benefit of all tax paying citizens in our potentially great nation.

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"Freethinkers are those who are willing to use their minds without prejudice and without fearing to understand things that clash with their own customs, privileges, or beliefs. This state of mind is not common, but it is essential for right thinking. Where it is absent discussion is apt to become worse than useless." Leo Tolstoy

"Do not try to teach pigs to sing. It will frustrate you and infuriate the pigs who will unite in anger against you, and you will never achieve singing your song". Dr. Petersen
CoachB25

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Reply with quote  #23 
The local CBS TV station did a piece on St. Louis welfare.  They found that "cards" which are mailed out to welfare reciepients were being sent to Hawaii (8), Florida (40+) and every other state in the union.  They also found out that massive number of cards show up in about 10 bars in town that are aligned with grocery stores via owners. It seems that the cards are traded in the bars and then the owners were turning them in through their grocery stores.  I don't understand how the entire process went but millions of dollars of fraud were caught in this sting.  That is just one city in one state.
sbmom1812

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Reply with quote  #24 
Frank I totally agree.  But there are good people on both sides, but right now especially the wrong ones are in control and the electorate has to take control and make sure the system changes.  We had welfare reform that showed that it worked well.  Obama just gutted it.  Why?  It was bipartisan and he even broke the law to gut it.  The only logical conclusion is that he is buying votes to empower big govt. That same big govt that commits a ton of govt waste and fraud. So, logically you want to vote for people that represent less govt, less govt spending, believe in the individual entrepreneur and business and empower the people not govt that takes our money and our freedom.  In this election, Romney represent less govt and more freedom compared to Obama.  It is a good first step.  It is incumbent upon the electorate to stay with it and make our leaders correct things.  But it is bad when they had done at least a good beginning step at correcting one problem with welfare which got 50%of the people off of it and then our current president illegally guts the law and takes us backwards again.  Govt at all levels needs to be changed as their are many state level govts that are just as bad as the feds with fraud and abuse of taxpayer money.
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Susan
JoiseyGuy

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Reply with quote  #25 
Susan - Last time I followed (and voted) your Party line with an added concept of "Compassion", we wound up with an era during which the divide between the very wealthy and the poor grew to become the widest in history (so much for compassionate conservatism) and two failed wars were started that cost the taxpayers multi billions of their tax dollars as well as the blood of many of our finest young people. The largest federal debt in history was "achieved".  Haliburton and subsidiaries did well financially. The stock market served wealthy investors.   From my viewpoint it was "Mission Accomplished". The administration served "our base".   Currently our government is shackled by the largest deficit in history as a result of a concept that can only be called a "credit card economy" in government.  In terms of economic viability, neither "prime the pump" nor "trickle down" has shown much promise, and the corruption continues to run rampant (and Iraq gets closer to Iran). We need a savior with a magic wand, and I don't see one on the horizon.   FUBAR    Frank
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"Freethinkers are those who are willing to use their minds without prejudice and without fearing to understand things that clash with their own customs, privileges, or beliefs. This state of mind is not common, but it is essential for right thinking. Where it is absent discussion is apt to become worse than useless." Leo Tolstoy

"Do not try to teach pigs to sing. It will frustrate you and infuriate the pigs who will unite in anger against you, and you will never achieve singing your song". Dr. Petersen
sbmom1812

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Reply with quote  #26 
Frank I hear what you are saying.  What most people forget is that Congress is also responsible, not just the president.  Other than when Clinton was in office and the republicans controlled enough and the dems were willing to compromise.  We have dems in congress right now that are not willing to compromise because their extreme views in spite of the fact that the electorate said they didnt want Obamacare, they dont want increased taxes and they wanted a different path than when they had total control.  But because the dems now they are so close to gaining control forever, they are doing everything to get over that 50%, even when its illegal, and Reid has basically given Obama carte blanche and if the repubs dont like it they have to spend money and time going through the court system.  I blame Reid and the dems in congress as much as Obama.  It has taken both and they have exponentially made things worse.  Right now we only have two choices and we know truly Obama and the extreme dems want to fundamentally transform our country into a socialist nightmare.  Even Europe is going back toward more capitalism and less socialism as they have seen it doesnt work, but Obama and the libs are full steam ahead in spite of it all.  So consequently, we have only one choice.  Is it exactly what we want, no.  But, it is defenitely a step in the right direction and it is incumbent on the electorate to stay involved to tell congress no thats not what we want etc... with calls, emails, etc.. and then hopefully get better in congress and presidency one step at a time.  But the electorate must demand it and stay involved.  Thats that power in the people that I was saying with healthcare as well.  But if you essentially give your power to the govt or insurance co etc... it doesnt work.  tHAT IS WHATS WRONG WITH THE SYSTEM?  Thats why socialists try to break down the cultural stability in a society so they can empower themselves and the govt.  People are giving their power to someone else instead of using their power.
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pabar61

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Reply with quote  #27 
Proof that the Democrats just don't get it.  From Steny Hoyer today:

"If you talk to economists, they will tell you there are two things that are the most stimulative that you can do -- one’s unemployment insurance, the other’s food stamps, okay?”

I mean seriously, can anyone tell me how either of these two government programs stimulate the economy?
sbmom1812

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Reply with quote  #28 
They dont.  He's catering to his voting block, even when its a big fat lie.
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keepinitreal

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Reply with quote  #29 
Quote:
Originally Posted by CoachB25
The local CBS TV station did a piece on St. Louis welfare.  They found that "cards" which are mailed out to welfare reciepients were being sent to Hawaii (8), Florida (40+) and every other state in the union.  They also found out that massive number of cards show up in about 10 bars in town that are aligned with grocery stores via owners. It seems that the cards are traded in the bars and then the owners were turning them in through their grocery stores.  I don't understand how the entire process went but millions of dollars of fraud were caught in this sting.  That is just one city in one state.







This is how the obama administration says we need to stimulate the economy.  There are many on the left who mistakenly think that more social welfare is what America needs.

Welfare recipients take out cash at strip clubs, liquor stores and X-rated shops

  • Last Updated: 10:03 AM, January 7, 2013
  • Posted: 1:47 AM, January 6, 2013

They’re on the dole — and watching the pole.

Welfare recipients took out cash at bars, liquor stores, X-rated video shops, hookah parlors and even strip clubs — where they presumably spent their taxpayer money on lap dances rather than diapers, a Post investigation found.

A database of 200 million Electronic Benefit Transfer records from January 2011 to July 2012, obtained by The Post through a Freedom of Information request, showed welfare recipients using their EBT cards to make dozens of cash withdrawals at ATMs inside Hank’s Saloon in Brooklyn; the Blue Door Video porn shop in the East Village; The Anchor, a sleek SoHo lounge; the Patriot Saloon in TriBeCa; and Drinks Galore, a liquor distributor in The Bronx.

 
The cover of today's Post

The state Office of Temporary and Disability Assistance (OTDA), which oversees the “cash assistance program,” even lists some of these welfare-ready ATMs on its Web site.

DEMS BOTTLE UP WELFARE REFORM BILL THAT WOULD END 'SINFUL SPENDING'

NYC OFFICIALS WANT TO INVESTIGATE BODEGAS RINGING UP SUSPICIOUSLY HIGH SALES WITH FOOD-STAMP MONEY

EDITORIAL: CARD TRICKS

One EBT machine is stationed inside Club Eleven, an infamous Hunts Point jiggle joint known as much for its violent history as its girls in pink thongs.

Cops have been cracking down on the Bronx club since 2009 and shut it down temporarily in 2010. In July, five men were stabbed and two others shot outside after bouncers broke up a 4 a.m. brawl with pepper spray. The club appeared to be shuttered when The Post visited Thursday.

Club Heat, another Bronx strip club that dispenses EBT cash, is also no stranger to violence. A 33-year-old woman was fatally shot in the head outside the club in December 2011.

Critics blasted the government for turning a blind eye to welfare’s sleazy money.

“This is morally scandalous,” said Michael Tanner, a senior fellow at the Cato Institute. “I have nothing against strip clubs, but that’s not what benefits are for. I don’t blame [recipients]. If you are poor, it’s a crummy life and you want to have a drink or see a naked woman. I blame the people who are in charge of this.”

Welfare recipients receive food stamps and cash assistance under the federal Temporary Assistance for Needy Families program. Both benefits are accessed through an EBT card, but only cash assistance — meant for housing, utilities and household necessities — can be accessed at ATMs.

A single-person household could receive a maximum $200 in monthly food stamps plus $158 in cash assistance. A family of four could get as much as $668 in food stamps and $433 in cash.

The food-stamp program prohibits the purchase of booze, tobacco and lottery tickets with an EBT card. But with the cash-assistance program, users can blow money on strippers or a six-pack and to tap welfare dollars from liquor stores, casinos and adult-oriented establishments.

The Post found dozens of pubs, nightclubs and tobacco shops where welfare dough was dispensed — and presumably spent.

The Boiler Room, a gay dive bar in the East Village, had $120 and $60 transactions a minute apart on Jan. 17, 2011. The bar is around the corner from a Bank of America that takes EBT cards.

West Village tobacco shop Shisha International had EBT transactions ranging from $40 to $180 in 2011. The store is near at least two EBT-friendly ATMs.

Legislative efforts to crack down on sinful spending have fallen short.

State Sen. Tom Libous (R-Binghamton) passed a bill in his chamber in June that would outlaw welfare withdrawals at gambling dens, strip clubs and other venues of vice, but the measure is gathering dust in the Democratic-controlled Assembly.

Libous is looking for a new Assembly sponsor to carry the bill in that house in the upcoming legislative session, after past sponsor George Latimer (D-Rye) was elected to the state Senate.

With only one of the city’s Assembly members, Nicole Malliotakis (R-B’klyn./SI), as a co-sponsor, the bill faces an uphill battle.

The Assembly typically doesn’t support welfare reform, because its more liberal members think the measures “hurt the poor,” Libous said. If the bill remains stalled, the state stands to lose $120 million in federal welfare funding.

The Middle Class Tax Relief and Job Creation Act, signed by President Obama last February, requires states to prohibit sinful welfare spending by 2014. If they don’t, they’ll forfeit federal cash.

“The people who are stealing from the program are the ones I want to go after,” Libous said. “Not someone who lost his job or a single mom who has to feed her kids. That’s what this program is supposed to be for.”

A spokesman with the US Department of Health and Human Services said states make their own rules on EBT cards.

Some states already limit where EBT cards can withdraw money.

A rep from OTDA, New York’s welfare office, said the state does not choose or regulate which retailers get ATMs that handle EBTs. Instead, retailers decide whether to use an ATM that accepts welfare cards.

Additional reporting by Susan Edelman and Brad Hamilton

kbriquelet@nypost.com

 

 


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BillSmith

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Reply with quote  #30 

Poor reporting. Accusations made, no evidence other than the withdrawls. Could the EBT cash be turned into lap dances? Sure. Booze? Sure. However, it is equally plausable that the cards are being used by the workers at these establishments to garner their cash where comfortable, rather than the highly lauded "nearby ATM". Maybe it is just a minimum wage mop wielder that's getting some cash from the EBT card.

Not calling you out, keepinitreal, just pointing out shoddy journalism. Gotta come correct as well as keep'n it real. The reporter should leave the office and go look. That's reporting. Not garner some statistics and make summary judgment. Lazy.


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Bill Smith
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