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gthompso

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Reply with quote  #1 
WhatDoIknow - Would it be possible to create a Forum for each conference and assign a moderator with the ability to move posts/threads that are not appropriate to that forum? (I'm not talking about deleting threads, but relocating them) I suppose an area for the independents would be necessary as well. I don't have a feel for how many DII, DIII, and NAIA posters are active out here, but they might need the same... this sort of structure would offer some growth potential for UCS.

And also, could we have a general chat area for ... well, chat? As it is now, every single thread ends up in chat... mine is better than yours kind of stuff that takes away from the value of the original dialog.

Also, I get a lot of value from reading the posts out here at UCS. I enjoy it so much, I'm willing to pay a small fee for having the ability to do special things like post unlimited pictures, keep unlimited PM's, and enjoy other features you deem appropriate. If you would kindly setup a paypal account, I would gladly deposit the Silver Star amount you deem appropriate.

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gthompso

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Reply with quote  #2 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seabiscuit
Put me on record as one would dislike a forum for each conference.

You are on the record.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seabiscuit
I do like the idea of a general chat. Although one could argue that the forum called "Miscellaneous" encompasses that.



I agree, but it's not being managed. Once a post falls into the trap of being general chat, it should be immediately moved to the chat area.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seabiscuit
The fact that threads naturally evolve into different topics is just, well, natural.

Ok, then move the thread to chat.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Seabiscuit
Anything that forces otherwise will become forum gestapo and punishing people for talking off topic probably have the negative effect of reducing participation tremendously. Is that your intent?


No, but when we are talking about the merits of one notion (let's say the war in Iraq) and it changes to the advantages of knowing a baby's gender prior to birth and then to using the lean-drop method for adjusting a carburetor... then it needs to be in chat. No deleting a post, just let the thread be what it is... chat.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seabiscuit
Unlimited storage of photos would be very costly. Anyway there are a number of free places like Google Picasa, Flickr, etc. where photos could be posted. Maybe a page where our photos can be linked to would be useful.

My intent was to use that as a perk for those of us that would be members. Maybe just the ability to insert links.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seabiscuit
I don't have a need for unlimited PM. I've been here for a while and find that deleting old messages works just fine. Maybe you could share email addresses with your PM buddies and thus exchange messages outside of the limits here.


There you go... just looking for some perks for the members.

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gthompso

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Reply with quote  #3 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seabiscuit
gthompso said: I agree, but it's not being managed. Once a post falls into the trap of being general chat, it should be immediately moved to the chat area."

Here's the hazard with that kind of "mild" censoring. (And, it is censoring.)...

1. Basically every thread would end up in Chat since that's how every thread tends to go.

2. For those that object to a post or, for those that think dastardly, a thread could be "forced" to Chat by just instigating an off topic slant to the thread that assures that the moderator must move it or be accused of "being selective" on what they censor.

In any event, arbitrary rules for no apparent reason other than inconvenience, will have unintended consequences that will turn off a lot of people and turn UCS into a barren wasteland.


Buscuit - 1.) I strongly disagree that this is anywhere near censorship. There are ways of leaving the old link there as a shadow so that everyone knows where the new location resides.

2.) Anything goes in chat. Simple rule... If you approach that level with the posting, then it is subject to chat or a warning from the moderator that they thread needs to get back on track.

As it is the forum is turning into a bunch of threads with no meaning... so great information is buried in the mire of who lives in the best part of the country... I say who cares... take it to chat and leave the serious discussion about softball to the more technical folk.

For those that like to chat, we have a home for them... and they can get their softball fix on the same site. What could be better?

This sort of a move is a no brainer. C'mon Busicuit... quit fighting a good idea just because it didn't come from one of the Ultimate California Website guru's.

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JoiseyGuy

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Reply with quote  #4 
gthompson - Generally, I agree with you on every topic. However, I don't think that UCS is a forum for exclusively technical softball despite that I love to discuss it. It has evolved as conversational, sometimes combative, a source of knowledge, and generally a source of softball information. Quite frankly, I understand your plea for more organization, but I simply don't think it's necessary. Nor do I necessarily think it would be an improvement.
P,S, I certainly am not one to cry "censorship" if the moderator makes a decision, but deciding what goes into "chat" seems to me to be a tremendous and unnecessary responsibility.

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"Freethinkers are those who are willing to use their minds without prejudice and without fearing to understand things that clash with their own customs, privileges, or beliefs. This state of mind is not common, but it is essential for right thinking. Where it is absent discussion is apt to become worse than useless." Leo Tolstoy

"Do not try to teach pigs to sing. It will frustrate you and infuriate the pigs who will unite in anger against you, and you will never achieve singing your song". Dr. Petersen
BruinDad

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Reply with quote  #5 
Just hurry up and move this over to chat, would ya, so we can get back to talking about organization............
Go Bruins
gthompso

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Reply with quote  #6 
Frank - Generally, I agree with your point.

I feel that having specific conference areas give those of us that enjoy the more tech talk a place to thrive. I have absolutely nothing against chat... I'm just not very good at it and really don't care much about it.

Also, I don't see chat as a single thread.... I see it as the center piece of the site.

Just a thought.


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JoiseyGuy

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Reply with quote  #7 
gthompson - You could reserve a series of threads for technical discussions of various aspects of our game. There have been several threads about hitting that went on ad infinitum. Some threads have discussed some aspects of pitching, including legal and illegal maneuvers. The key would be to give a "technical" tag to the thread and allow no "chat" on that thread. For example - "The Rise Ball" - Technical discussion, or "Linear or Rotational Hitting" - Technical Discussion, or "Slapping" - Technical Discussion.
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"Freethinkers are those who are willing to use their minds without prejudice and without fearing to understand things that clash with their own customs, privileges, or beliefs. This state of mind is not common, but it is essential for right thinking. Where it is absent discussion is apt to become worse than useless." Leo Tolstoy

"Do not try to teach pigs to sing. It will frustrate you and infuriate the pigs who will unite in anger against you, and you will never achieve singing your song". Dr. Petersen
gthompso

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Reply with quote  #8 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoiseyGuy
gthompson - You could reserve a series of threads for technical discussions of various aspects of our game. There have been several threads about hitting that went on ad infinitum. Some threads have discussed some aspects of pitching, including legal and illegal maneuvers. The key would be to give a "technical" tag to the thread and allow no "chat" on that thread. For example - "The Rise Ball" - Technical discussion, or "Linear or Rotational Hitting" - Technical Discussion, or "Slapping" - Technical Discussion.


Frank - I agree that capturing the detailed discussion in one place would be a good thing... but, that type discussion is more general softball tech and should have its own home (which I believe it does). Since UCS is all about college softball then that should be the focus... for all talk with the exception of chat. Chat should be (IMO) left to run its course on whatever topic softball people would like to take on any given day.

You know that in the past many posters have said something to the effect that if you don't like what a person is saying the don't read it... I actually agree with that statement. But, with these comments littering good solid topical discussion makes it impossible to do. Emtae is a great example... on many occasions the guy/gal provided some good input to the topic... on others... well it was just plane chat.

Again, I have no problem with chat or what anyone would like to say in that area. I am more for us having an area where we can talk in a more regional (conference) or specific group.

EDIT: This site does have a regional flavor now... IMO it is SoCal biased in every way. I tip my hat to them and what they have done for the sport. The history is rich and I love reading and hearing about it. I just feel that it would be good for softball and this site to see similar groups in other regions have an opportunity to grow.

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JoiseyGuy

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Reply with quote  #9 
Biscuit - Love the analogy !!
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"Freethinkers are those who are willing to use their minds without prejudice and without fearing to understand things that clash with their own customs, privileges, or beliefs. This state of mind is not common, but it is essential for right thinking. Where it is absent discussion is apt to become worse than useless." Leo Tolstoy

"Do not try to teach pigs to sing. It will frustrate you and infuriate the pigs who will unite in anger against you, and you will never achieve singing your song". Dr. Petersen
JoiseyGuy

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Reply with quote  #10 
Biscuit - I agree about censorship in general, but if a forum begins with some general rules of decorum, for example that excessive vitriole or personal attack are not acceptable (please don't ask what "excessive" would be - it's one of those obvious things in communication like "name calling"), then that aspect of communication is regulated to maintain a tone established by the founder. I guess that much of what I believe should be the tone of UCS falls under "good manners". Given that, what would be regarded as "censorship" by some becomes merely consistent regulation by the "regulator" for others. If this is not true, then it's "Katy bar the door" and anything goes. I don't think - in fact I know- that that is not what Robo had in mind when he originated UCS.
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"Freethinkers are those who are willing to use their minds without prejudice and without fearing to understand things that clash with their own customs, privileges, or beliefs. This state of mind is not common, but it is essential for right thinking. Where it is absent discussion is apt to become worse than useless." Leo Tolstoy

"Do not try to teach pigs to sing. It will frustrate you and infuriate the pigs who will unite in anger against you, and you will never achieve singing your song". Dr. Petersen
gthompso

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Reply with quote  #11 
Biscuit - If moving "Catcher in the Rye" from the children's section to the fiction area is censorship in your mind, then yes my proposal would be a form of censorship. Surely that's not what you mean...

Let me be clear... I want to give more people a voice... not less. I'm proposing a revamp of the way information is categorized into a more readable section.

Censorship is not a problem for me... I chose to read what I want to read. I tire of junk about life in SoCal in the middle of an SEC thread. There... I said it. Flame away!

I know I should just not read it... but, if the chatters had a place to chat I wouldn't have to worry about avoiding the drivel they spew.


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or... "it ain't over 'til the fat lady sings"
gthompso

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Reply with quote  #12 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seabiscuit
Joisey,

Don't misunderstand, I believe that a forum must induce censorship at times to protect our girls, to keep deeply hurt personal attacks away, and to protect our privacy. There's no way around it. However, censorship for convenience or because someone doesn't want to plow through the things they don't want to read is just wrong.



Disagree in total with that statement. First, it is not censorship if the information is not deleted but simply moved to where it belongs. Second... everything has its place.

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War Eagle!
Dum Spiro Spero
or... "it ain't over 'til the fat lady sings"
gthompso

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Reply with quote  #13 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seabiscuit
gthompso said: "Disagree in total with that statement. First, it is not censorship if the information is not deleted but simply moved to where it belongs."

You can disagree all you want. But, anytime anyone alters something I write then they are censoring me. When I post an "opinion", instead of only facts, in a "fact only" form my intent is to have it read by the people that read that form to read my opinion. If you choose, for arbitrary reasons, to move my opinion elsewhere you are censoring.


gthompso ever so clearly pointed out the nastiness of censorship by saying: "Second... everything has its place. "

Of course that's what's wrong with censorship. One person decides where that place is.

Currently the place for opinions and non-fact only comments is anywhere. That seems to be fine with the majority of those who post or they wouldn't come back. If we were to invoke the rules by the minority then we'd be emulating the U.S. government where we are ruled by minority special interest groups. Do we really want to go down that slippery slope?


Biscuit - The whole thread gets moved to chat... not just your opinion. If a moderator choses to remove your thread because there is simply too much drama... well that's between you and the moderator. I never proposed to move a single comment... but once a thread turns to chat, then it needs to be what it is.

I'm not talking about ruling anyone... lighten up just a little on me here. All I propose is improving how threads are categorized. Heck, I'd like to be able to visit each of these sub-forums and float the new posts. This forum is ready for an upgrade.

... now you have introduced the possibility of a tangent that this thread could easily take. That being a full exploration of why the majority is being governed by the minority or why we in the USA are NOT using the perfectly good constitution our forefathers drew up for us? The sky is the limit... my only request is that a new thread be started rather than taking this one off topic.

Just thinking out loud, friend.

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War Eagle!
Dum Spiro Spero
or... "it ain't over 'til the fat lady sings"
gthompso

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Reply with quote  #14 
Biscuit - I use the "New Post" exclusively. Only when I start a new thread do I navigate to the different areas. For this proposal to work, that feature would need to be moved down a level so that your first stop is at the forum of your choice.

My first choice would be the SEC forum... depending on the activity, I might not move to any of the other categories.

In a previous life, there was the Fastpitch forum... it was split into a general discussion area as well as batting and pitching areas. I rarely navigated anywhere other than the pitching forum... there was so much excellent detail that I simply didn't have the time to spend elsewhere.


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War Eagle!
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POV

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Reply with quote  #15 

Just seems like it would be a full time job. 

WanabeHorsey

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Reply with quote  #16 
American Heritage Dictionary:

Censor: A person authorized to examine books, films, or other material and to remove or suppress what is considered morally, politically, or otherwise objectionable.

Seabiscuit is right.  No matter how well intentioned the plan may be, the fact that the decision would be made by one person and solely subjective is the problem, and not advisable simply for convenience sake.  While many/some may feel the decisions are reasonable, many/some may find them unreasonable.

Nizab

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Reply with quote  #17 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gthompso
WhatDoIknow - Would it be possible to create a Forum for each conference and assign a moderator with the ability to move posts/threads that are not appropriate to that forum? (I'm not talking about deleting threads, but relocating them) I suppose an area for the independents would be necessary as well. I don't have a feel for how many DII, DIII, and NAIA posters are active out here, but they might need the same... this sort of structure would offer some growth potential for UCS.

And also, could we have a general chat area for ... well, chat? As it is now, every single thread ends up in chat... mine is better than yours kind of stuff that takes away from the value of the original dialog.

Also, I get a lot of value from reading the posts out here at UCS. I enjoy it so much, I'm willing to pay a small fee for having the ability to do special things like post unlimited pictures, keep unlimited PM's, and enjoy other features you deem appropriate. If you would kindly setup a paypal account, I would gladly deposit the Silver Star amount you deem appropriate.


Other than a link to a newspaper article or a SID press release, everything else could be considered chat, couldn't it? I wouldn't mind a moderator just adding a word and a dash to the beginning of the subject line thread eg, Pac 10-, or UCLA-, etc. This would be helpful as some subject lines are very vague.


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