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Dewey

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Reply with quote  #31 
Bill - Are you under the belief a lot of student ID's are being forged in order to vote?  All ID's can likely be forged.  I suppose one could make the same argument explaining why gun permit ID's are more legit than driver's license ID's.  Maybe we should feel lucky a driver's license is acceptable.  My position remains the same.  There's a clear reason why voting is being suppressed in this Country and it's mostly being aimed at the less affluent. 
bhblue

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Reply with quote  #32 

Dewey - Comparing a gun permit and a school ID is like comparing legal tender to Monopoly money, IMO.  My son's school ID has his name and picture on it, that's it.  I'm pretty sure your gun permit will include SSN, address, etc.

I'm okay with registering and voting the same day.

The shortest early voting time in states that allow it is 10 days.  Some are as long as 45 days.  Really, Dewey, how much time should be allowed for people to "get around" to voting? 

I truly believe there are more instances of voter fraud than people actually not voting because of more restrictive voting laws.  Where are the suppressed millions?

I'm not pretending, just wanting laws in place to protect the vote. Do you believe I'm trying to keep people from voting? 

Dewey

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Reply with quote  #33 
bhblue - I could ask a similar question.  I'm against these large magazine weapons in hopes it might prevent a Sandy Hook type event here or there.  Whether I'm right or wrong, do you believe I'm against the right to bear arms?

We could argue this all day so I'll just stand by my overall belief on this question.  It's my opinion the Right, in general, knows it's to their advantage to reduce the number who turn out to vote and are taking whatever steps they can to move us in this direction.  People have to show ID to register.  If we need to spend more money to confirm the accuracy of the registration rolls, so be it.  Making all these other unnecessary changes simply confirm the suppression I believe to be taking place.

Lost_1

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Reply with quote  #34 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewey
There remains almost zero evidence of people impersonating others in order to cast an illegal vote and, despite these rare examples of voting problems, none of this excuses the push to reduce the number of polling locations and the number of voting days.  These changes, along with taking away the right to register and vote on the same day, making absentee voting more difficult, and allowing gun permit ID's but not student ID's in order to vote, are clear examples of the Right doing whatever it can to suppress voting.  This isn't rocket science and it's another reason to vote Democrat.




Seriously, WTF???


Let see for my conceal carry permit I had to submit my DL#, SSN# two passport photos, be fingerprinted, and pass a state background check. Pretty sure my state knows more about me then some of my family.

Now how many colleges allow Illegal Ummm "Undocumented" Aliens attend class? Oh, I know as Rain Man says "Lots of them, lots & lots"

http://dreamact.info/forum/showthread.php?t=6567

According to Pomona Financial Aid Director Patricia Coye, there have been a few cases at Pomona where the Office of Financial Aid has worked with undocumented immigrant students that needed financial help. Undocumented students, Coye said, have generally been honest about their citizenship status in their applications or financial statements, making it easier for the College to work with them to secure aid.

“We have had an informal policy, though not an official one, of offering financial aid to outstanding students who are undocumented immigrants,” said President David Oxtoby. “This is consistent with our goal of being open to excellent students of all backgrounds, and helping them to complete a Pomona education though generous financial aid support.”

Btm: Page 2

There's a DAPer in Dental School right now (Bruinman) and at least one in Law School ( rocksteady), PM them if you want to know more.

For those of you looking to attend to graduate school and ways of funding it there is a really helpful discussion involving DREAMers in grad school talking about which schools accepted them and how they paid for it. PM me if you want the full version.


Brief Summary

List of Graduate Schools that have taken DREAMers and how helpful they were in funding but take the financial info with a grain of salt because it often depends on the department. When I talk about how easy it was to get in, I'm not speaking academically, lol, I'm talking about how easy it was to convince them to take you with your status.

ASU - Hard to get in but once in, the guy got a lot of help financially
Brown University - Has had DREAMers before and is very helpful in funding
Columbia - Gave a large scholarship for a masters program
CSU-NorthRidge -1/2 the cost of UCLA
Drexel - Person withdrew application and chose another school but they were still giving them a hard time about not having a visa.*
Hunter College -no real scholarships
NYU - easy to get in but no real funding
Penn State - Has had DREAMers before
Rutgers - no luck with funding
Stanford - Has given DREAMers full rides before
UC-Berekley -can be helpful in funding but it all depends on your department
UCLA -can be helpful at times in funding
University of Michigan -easy to get in but don't know how helpful they are in providing help financailly
Yale -Has had DREAMers before and is very helpful in funding



*If a school (especially a private school) is giving you a hard time in even accepting you with your status have your pro-dream congressman contact them if they give you trouble. It has worked for a few people in the past. There is no reason why they can't accept you other than out of meanspiritness and a lot of these schools preach social justice and responsibility, so make them practice what they preach. Most are coming around though and once they see you face to face, they will usually work with you.

I think it also depends on the department and requires a lot of work on our end in explaining why we can't get a visa.
Networking is really important and even if a school says that international students must have a visa, they make exceptions.

Also someone told LatinaHispana that Stanford won't help us out financially, there are undocumented immigrants that have graduated from Standford with full rides. So even if a school says they won't, keep trying. Face to face contact is more effective than emails or even phone calls. If they have anything resembling a heart, they will try to work with you.

__________________
If we are not careful, our colleges will produce a group of close-minded, unscientific, illogical propagandists, consumed with immoral acts. - Dr. Martin Luther King


“Everyone is in favor of free speech. Hardly a day passes without its being extolled, but some people's idea of it is that they are free to say what they like, but if anyone else says anything back, that is an outrage.” Winston S. Churchill


Lost_1

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Reply with quote  #35 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewey
bhblue - I could ask a similar question.  I'm against these large magazine weapons in hopes it might prevent a Sandy Hook type event here or there.  Whether I'm right or wrong, do you believe I'm against the right to bear arms?   Warning Will Robinson,


Royalty Free Illustrations of Faces by Chromaco #1



Strawman alert

We could argue this all day so I'll just stand by my overall belief on this question.  It's my opinion the Right, in general, knows it's to their advantage to reduce the number who turn out to vote and are taking whatever steps they can to move us in this direction.  People have to show ID to register.  If we need to spend more money to confirm the accuracy of the registration rolls, so be it.  Making all these other unnecessary changes simply confirm the suppression I believe to be taking place.


__________________
If we are not careful, our colleges will produce a group of close-minded, unscientific, illogical propagandists, consumed with immoral acts. - Dr. Martin Luther King


“Everyone is in favor of free speech. Hardly a day passes without its being extolled, but some people's idea of it is that they are free to say what they like, but if anyone else says anything back, that is an outrage.” Winston S. Churchill


Dewey

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Reply with quote  #36 
Lost_1 - The point has been made it's harder to get a gun permit ID than a student ID.  That wasn't the message I was presenting.  Using your argument, why not disallow a driver's license too?

Edit:  By the way, what was the proof of citizenship required to register to vote in these States where you are concerned with immigrants having student ID's?  It seems some have forgotten one needs to register to vote.
BillSmith

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Reply with quote  #37 

Quote:
Making all these other unnecessary changes simply confirm the suppression I believe to be taking place.

But that wasn't your question. You asked a specific comparison of two IDs. I delineated clear reasons one would far outstrip the other. Your rebuttal should have been,

"But if they are already registered, then why would it be necessary to have extraneous detail above what is contained on a student ID."

Come on partner, this is a softball forum. I served you one right down the middle. You chose to remain steadfast in arguing your assertion about the 'Right's' attempts to disenfranchise voters of opposing views.

Soldiering on and still serving both sides of the fence.


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Sometimes you are the mole, sometimes the mushroom.
DietCoke

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Reply with quote  #38 
fhoenix, I agree with you that there will always be dishonest people.  But this thread was resurrected on 10/21 with a post about "blatant voter fraud" and a Latino "stuffing the ballot box" with hundreds of ballots according to the article posted by Lost_1.  I find the lemming mentality of accepting articles like this without pausing to question even one aspect of it disheartening.  My first reaction to the article, was "oh, come on, this just sounds ridiculous" while Lost_1's and others here was apparently "oh my God, the liberals are out of control and rigging the elections".  I took some time to investigate more into the veracity of the article, the man mentioned in the article, whether local news sources also reported this "injustice", and whether there have been any legal actions because of it.  Did Lost_1 do any of this prior to posting?  I just think we all need to do a better job of ferreting out information before blindly believing it. 

Here's a pretty comprehensive discussion of what most likely happened with the ballot box stuffing (yeah, it's a "liberal" blog but still rational) -

http://wonkette.com/564064/latino-guy-delivers-absentee-ballots-in-arizona-youll-never-guess-what-happens-next

By Tuesday, the story was all over the rightwing blogosphere. The Blaze and The Daily Caller both ran with it, although we should note that the Daily Caller at least framed its headline as a question: “Does This Video Show A Hispanic Activist Openly Committing Vote Fraud?” (The answer is definitely yes, by the way). The story was also reblogged by the Stupidest Man on the Internet, Jim Hoft, who keenly observed from the video, “They don’t even try to hid [sic] their lawlessness anymore,” and claimed that “a vulgar, violent Democratic operative was caught on tape stuffing a ballot box.”

Commenters are, of course, quite outraged as well, and have suggested that this obviously illegal immigrant “wetback” thug who is ruining democracy should be deported or perhaps shot. And this incident proves what they’ve been saying all these years — that President Obama only won his election (twice) because of these illegal thugs stuffing ballot boxes all the time. It’s right there on tape! (For some real classy comments, check out, or avoid, the story at Ben Shapiro’s Home Of Brilliant Conservative Discourse.)

This is the part where we explain that, as you might have guessed, the entire VOTER FRAUD! hysteria is thoroughgoing bullsh!t. As it turns out, Mr. LaFaro has long had a wee bit of a problem with Citizens For a Better Arizona, (CBA) a progressive group that grew out of the successful 2011 effort to recall former state Senate president Russell Pearce, the architect of Arizona’s “papers please” immigration law. Since that victory, the group has also tried, unsuccessfully, to launch a recall of Sheriff Joe Arpaio. LaFaro is a close ally of Arpaio and does not like progressive activists who work to get the wrong people involved in politics. In a 2013 Tempe Tea Party email, LaFaro called backers of the Arpaio recall drive, including CBA leader Randy Parraz, “domestic terrorists” and reminded readers, “These are the same thugs who wrongfully recalled Russell Pearce.” It seems there’s a pretty low bar for what constitutes thuggery in LaFaro’s very active imagination.

Also, big surprise, what LaFaro witnessed in August was a perfectly routine, completely legal part of early voting under Arizona law — and LaFaro damned well knows it. Citizens for a Better Arizona, like several other political groups in the state, including the state GOP, helps collect and deliver absentee ballots from voters: one voter, one ballot. The Arizona Elections Manual is quite clear about the legality of this:

After they have securely sealed the voted ballot inside the early ballot return envelope, voters may voluntarily give their voted early ballot to a person of their choice for delivery to the Recorder or a polling place. The designated person shall not tamper with the envelope or the ballot and shall not deliberately fail to deliver the ballot to the Recorder or a polling place within the voter’s county of residence.

Yr Wonkette did some Serious Journalism and phoned Randy Parraz, president emeritus of CBA, who told us that their goal is to increase voter participation among Latino voters, especially those who might request an absentee ballot but not mail it in because they believe their vote won’t count. They’ve been doing these drives for years, and state elections officials are well aware that CBA’s activities are perfectly legal.

A.J. LaFaro knows it too. He testified before the state legislature in 2013 in favor of barring groups like CBA from helping people vote. The resulting bill, HB-2305, included a whole bunch of other beautiful restrictions on voting and petitions and nominations, but the centerpiece was the criminalization of taking another person’s absentee ballot to the polls — a tactic that had been key to recalling Russell Pearce. HB 2305 passed and was signed by Gov. Jan Brewer in 2013, but in the face of an initiative drive to overturn it and widespread criticism of the law, the legislature turned around and repealed it earlier this year. LaFaro’s pretend surprise at CBA’s alleged “ballot stuffing” is all the more disingenuous, considering he fought to outlaw what was a very useful strategy for gathering enough votes to hurt his cronies.

Far from being up to anything fraudulent, the CBA employee, Ben Marin, was simply fulfilling CBA’s commitment to the voters it promised to help, delivering their sealed absentee ballots to the elections office. Said Parraz, “If anything, we’re guilty of helping people vote.” Parraz said that Marin is not making himself available for interviews — not all that surprising given the number of Great American Internet Patriots who want him jailed, deported (apparently we deport citizens now), or shot for the crime of doing something completely legal. One charmer at Ben Shapiro’s ConservaHole said, “To the activist I say, your face is on line now, and I’m sure has made the short list of some very dedicated patriots.”

But what about all the thuggery and cursing LaFaro reported on his blog? Parraz tells Wonkette it never happened. He said that Marin told him he’d been professional at all times. Marin even pointed out to LaFaro that the building was monitored by surveillance cameras, noting that if he were doing anything wrong, he’d be on tape. Marin also categorically denies using profanity toward LaFaro. “LaFaro made that up,” said Parraz.

As Patrick Howell O’Neill points out at the Daily Dot, if Marin had been trying to do fraud, he was one crappy fraudster, wearing a T-shirt identifying the nonprofit he worked for and walking into a lobby that he knew was monitored by video. Unlike those Mississippi tea partiers who got themselves locked in a courthouse on election night, Marin came right through the front door during business hours and wasn’t the least bit sneaky about anything, including going back to his vehicle to seal that one ballot that was open. (We’re no election lawyers, but it seems to us that maybe that one ballot should have just been turned in as is. Does sealing an unsealed ballot count as “tampering” with it? There is probably some case law on that somewhere.)

......

Just how non-fraudy is this video? Randy Parraz says that after the rightwing noise machine lurched into action over the supposedly incriminating evidence, he got a call from the Phoenix Fox News affiliate, asking him for his side of the story, something that absolutely none of the rightwing blogs have bothered doing. After he explained that what the video showed was completely legal, and that Maricopa County elections officials are not merely aware of it but OK with it — because, again, legal and not all that uncommon – the local Fox producer realized there wasn’t really a story and dropped the idea.

So there’s an answer to the outraged questions in the wingnut blog comments: Why isn’t this man in jail, or being deported, or executed for treason? Probably because he’s doing nothing wrong, apart from the apparently criminal offense of helping people vote while brown.

 


__________________
"The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists."

-- Hannah Arendt, “The Origins of Totalitarianism” (1951)

Dewey

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Reply with quote  #39 
Bill - I thought the registration process was understood but Lost_1 reminded me some are overlooking this initial requirement.  Btw, I'm curious what the fence sitters are thinking?  Generally speaking, do you think the Right is truly concerned fraud has invaded our voting process or do you see a move to make voting more difficult for the reasons I've put forth?  I tend to couple the "Dem's are buying the votes of the poor" accusation with this new trend towards making it more difficult for the less affluent to vote, in order to come to the conclusion I have.
ForeverInBlue

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Reply with quote  #40 
Everyone of the over 800 who vote in India have and show a state issued ID. They say it helps ensure the integrity of the vote. Why are liberals so opposed to ensuring the integrity of the vote in the United States? Voting integrity should be a high priority for everyone, not only Republicans.
ForeverInBlue

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Reply with quote  #41 
What would liberals be satisfied with?

24/7/365 with no ID required?

What would possibly ever satisfy them?
Dewey

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Reply with quote  #42 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ForeverInBlue
What would possibly ever satisfy them?


Proof of citizenship from those who choose to register to vote.  How's that?
BillSmith

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Reply with quote  #43 
I think both sides cards are clear, though like poor magicians, they would like to think we fence sitters can't see up their sleeves.

The Democrats do make it clear they are the "party of the poor". Whether their platform actually aids those targeted in manner that helps long term is debatable, as asserted by the commentary posted by Ms. King.

The Republicans do make it clear they desire accountability from "we the people". That inspector's magnifying glass seems to be directed selectively, as you assert. But that's part of the trickery and equal to that of the Democratic magicians...err, policy makers.

Restrictions regarding windows of time for lower class voters to cast their ballots would be spurious to my view. If not working, time would be less an issue. If working the typical lower-class wage earner job, they are most afforded time to leave work and vote. Unions, large corporate entities and civil service jobs demand such leeway be given. Middle class mom & pop better remember to mail in their vote. They aren't leaving the store.

It is all so much rhetoric. Democrats have Acorn. Republicans have right wing radio.

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Sometimes you are the mole, sometimes the mushroom.
Dewey

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Reply with quote  #44 
Bill - We could discuss the closing and/or moving of polling locations to make distances more difficult and wait times more of a deterrent.  But like I said, we could discuss this all day.  That said, someday I'd like to hear from you regarding these Democrat policies/trickery where we might find disagreement.  Another time and another thread maybe.
ForeverInBlue

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Reply with quote  #45 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewey
Quote:
Originally Posted by ForeverInBlue
What would possibly ever satisfy them?


Proof of citizenship from those who choose to register to vote.  How's that?


That eliminates student ID cards.

What satisfies this requirement of proof of citizenship for liberals?

And how months should the polls be open?

How many times should the poor be allowed to vote?
pabar61

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Reply with quote  #46 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillSmith


It is all so much rhetoric. Democrats have Acorn. Republicans have right wing radio.


Not surprisingly, I don't believe this is a valid comparison.  There's certainly no shortage of hot air and buffoonery on right wing radio, but it hasn't stooped to the criminal levels of Acorn.
steelman

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Reply with quote  #47 
Mayor Diblasio of NYC asked for picture IDs for the undoctumented and other citizens who dont have drivers licenses. He said these would be used so they can apply for city services. What is the difference between this and a picture ID for voting? When it is a progressive no balking from the left.
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Of all the things ive lost, I miss my mind the most.
keepinitreal

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Reply with quote  #48 
Quote:
You chose to remain steadfast in arguing your assertion about the 'Right's' attempts to disenfranchise voters of opposing views.


Yeah and he remains steadfast in line with the mob mentality that says that cop in Ferguson should be indicted even though the facts don't support their wishes.

 Where do you think we came up with the rabbit hole comparisons?  If you satisfactorily answer one query many more will pop up like gopher holes, errr prarie dog holes, errrrr rabbit holes.  It's easier to talk about voter suppression when your side is about to have their asses handed to them because of your manlove's PPP.  Gotta have someone to blame in case the libtards stay home in droves, must be someone else's fault.

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"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
BillSmith

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Reply with quote  #49 
pabar- Wasn't using Acorn/RightWingRadio as direct comparison. Just that each side has some over-the-top BS with which this BS must deal. Hope you see how that makes it difficult for a fence sitter to judge where and when to put a foot down. Both sides have some things on which I/we would prefer not to step in.
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Sometimes you are the mole, sometimes the mushroom.
keepinitreal

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Reply with quote  #50 
Quote:
  Now can you explain why a gun permit ID is allowed but not a student ID? 


and allowing gun permit ID's but not student ID's in order to vote, are clear examples of the Right doing whatever it can to suppress voting.



I suppose one could make the same argument explaining why gun permit ID's are more legit than driver's license ID's. Maybe we should feel lucky a driver's license is acceptable.  



The point has been made it's harder to get a gun permit ID than a student ID.  That wasn't the message I was presenting.  Using your argument, why not disallow a driver's license too?




How do you know when you are losing an argument?  You make these claims all in one day.  When you get schooled, you move the goal posts

__________________
"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
DietCoke

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Reply with quote  #51 
Well, at least he's out in the open about it -

http://www.northjersey.com/news/christie-says-gop-gubernatorial-candidates-need-to-win-so-they-control-voting-mechanisms-1.1113989

__________________
"The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists."

-- Hannah Arendt, “The Origins of Totalitarianism” (1951)

Lost_1

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Reply with quote  #52 
Say it ain't so, Joe!!!


https://news.yahoo.com/video/disturbing-discovery-illegal-immigrants-nc-120650739.html

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If we are not careful, our colleges will produce a group of close-minded, unscientific, illogical propagandists, consumed with immoral acts. - Dr. Martin Luther King


“Everyone is in favor of free speech. Hardly a day passes without its being extolled, but some people's idea of it is that they are free to say what they like, but if anyone else says anything back, that is an outrage.” Winston S. Churchill


DietCoke

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Reply with quote  #53 
Looks like LaFaro's pulled back a bit on his previous comments - even admits that the Republicans do it, too!

http://www.azcentral.com/story/news/arizona/politics/2014/10/22/arizona-groups-defend-early-ballots/17756311/

__________________
"The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists."

-- Hannah Arendt, “The Origins of Totalitarianism” (1951)

Lost_1

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Reply with quote  #54 
Nothing to see here........




http://www.nationalreview.com/campaign-spot/391134/jaw-dropping-study-claims-large-numbers-non-citizens-vote-us-jim-geraghty


How many non-citizens participate in U.S. elections? More than 14 percent of non-citizens in both the 2008 and 2010 samples indicated that they were registered to vote. Furthermore, some of these non-citizens voted. Our best guess, based upon extrapolations from the portion of the sample with a verified vote, is that 6.4 percent of non-citizens voted in 2008 and 2.2 percent of non-citizens voted in 2010.



http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/monkey-cage/wp/2014/10/24/could-non-citizens-decide-the-november-election/


Because non-citizens tended to favor Democrats (Obama won more than 80 percent of the votes of non-citizens in the 2008 CCES sample), we find that this participation was large enough to plausibly account for Democratic victories in a few close elections. Non-citizen votes could have given Senate Democrats the pivotal 60th vote needed to overcome filibusters in order to pass health-care reform and other Obama administration priorities in the 111th Congress. Sen. Al Franken (D-Minn.) won election in 2008 with a victory margin of 312 votes. Votes cast by just 0.65 percent of Minnesota non-citizens could account for this margin. It is also possible that non-citizen votes were responsible for Obama’s 2008 victory in North Carolina. Obama won the state by 14,177 votes, so a turnout by 5.1 percent of North Carolina’s adult non-citizens would have provided this victory margin.



__________________
If we are not careful, our colleges will produce a group of close-minded, unscientific, illogical propagandists, consumed with immoral acts. - Dr. Martin Luther King


“Everyone is in favor of free speech. Hardly a day passes without its being extolled, but some people's idea of it is that they are free to say what they like, but if anyone else says anything back, that is an outrage.” Winston S. Churchill


keepinitreal

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Reply with quote  #55 
No wonder they wanot to distract us with nonsense about voter suppression whIle they are allowing non-citizens to vote. Is joisey sure this is the way it's always been done, his so called Washington way? I would not think this is what is lawful. No wonder the libtards make so much noise about side issues. They strut like peacocks, scurry like quail and cluck like chickens to distract the masses.
__________________
"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
JoiseyGuy

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Reply with quote  #56 
Real - It was ever thus, in various degrees and in specific geographic locations.  Corrupt politicians (is that redundant?), using local or national power have tweaked the system in their Party's favor for longer than I can remember.  Check out New York city during the days of ethnic political  mobs and ward healers. Check out Chicago politics or Teapot Dome.  However, one would think that today, with on line oversight, that type of corruption would be more closely monitored, but it seems to be increasing rather than decreasing, but part of that might be awareness.  Parties accuse their opposition of cheating constantly, and they are probably correct.  It's the system and pragmatism is the philosophy.   
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"Freethinkers are those who are willing to use their minds without prejudice and without fearing to understand things that clash with their own customs, privileges, or beliefs. This state of mind is not common, but it is essential for right thinking. Where it is absent discussion is apt to become worse than useless." Leo Tolstoy

"Do not try to teach pigs to sing. It will frustrate you and infuriate the pigs who will unite in anger against you, and you will never achieve singing your song". Dr. Petersen
GrizzlyFan

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Reply with quote  #57 


AGAIN: Maryland Voting Machines Flip To Dem!

VIDEO: Illinois...

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If Obamacare is such a good thing, why did he have to lie about it to get it passed?
ForeverInBlue

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Reply with quote  #58 
WaPo posts helpful guide to where you can vote without an ID.

So kind of them that pro-amnesty group La Raza is circulating the information.

ForeverInBlue

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Reply with quote  #59 


It will take an army of conservative poll watchers and then a second army of lawyers to get any semblance of a fair vote in Obama's America.
JoiseyGuy

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Reply with quote  #60 
inBlue - You are partially correct, but your Party allegiance, which I respect, has given you only a partial reality.  Your Party is not pure and is part of the problem.  
__________________
"Freethinkers are those who are willing to use their minds without prejudice and without fearing to understand things that clash with their own customs, privileges, or beliefs. This state of mind is not common, but it is essential for right thinking. Where it is absent discussion is apt to become worse than useless." Leo Tolstoy

"Do not try to teach pigs to sing. It will frustrate you and infuriate the pigs who will unite in anger against you, and you will never achieve singing your song". Dr. Petersen
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