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woody

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Reply with quote  #1 
Didn't see any coverage, other than a small amount by Fox on the recent BLM/EPA property confiscation, and links to the senate majority leader. The Federal Government made an unprecedented move in Nevada. Under the pretense of money owed for grazing rights, and the need to protect a desert tortoise, the BLM sent armed agents presumably from Homeland Security, that looked like former Blackwater contractors. These guys encircled a ranch, were fully armed with automatic weapons, helicopters, and attack dogs. They started rounding up, and confiscating cattle and trucking them off. Finally, a group of area ranchers, and some Militia groups faced the Feds down, and ran them off. Since then, it is discovered that Senator Reid was behind the action, in order to hand over solar energy projects to Chinese investors. The BLM had attempted to scrub their website, but it had been saved and documented. Watch the video of these government "agents" in full combat gear ready to fire on American civilians. Who are these guy? These are hired guns in a range war and a land grab. What are their names, and where do they live? I would really like to see the email logs on The discussion between the BLM, and Homeland Security when dispatching armed paramilitary to go up against American Citizens. Not a peep from the MSM, or any interest in asking Senator Reid about his involvement with the handing over of lands to Chinese solar firms. Follow the money? Nope, this is what happens when your news sources are actually propaganda outlets, for the Obama administration and the Democrat party, and not news organizations. Watch the video, at the bottom, and ask yourself, what is my government doing sending men in combat gear armed with military weapons out to confront a Rancher? Jack Booted thugs from the Obama administration.These are strong arm tactics by an oppressive government, that is overreaching it's authority. And Harry Reid is doing it for money. The man is vile, and a traitor to his oath. 

http://www.infowars.com/feds-back-down-in-new-bundy-standoff-agree-to-release-cattle/

http://www.infowars.com/flashback-sen-reid-breaks-ground-for-nevada-solar-farm-near-bundy-ranch/

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Jane you ignorant slut. Keep your booger hook of the bang switch, you stupid Socialist. 

Beer me Hippie. I feel more like I do now, than when I first got here.
keepinitreal

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Posts: 27,122
Reply with quote  #2 
woody, every time I see you, I shake my head dejectedly and begin to cuss, stomp and spit because of my negativity towards our nation's future.  You slap me out of it and tell me things are going to be alright.  

Then something happens like happened yesterday in Kansas with the 3 people killed and then this past week the strong arm of the U.S. Government comes after it's citizens.  The end of days are nigh, Harry Reid is what is wrong with this country.  How do we stop the Machine!?

Awesome video by the ranch hands, the cowboys and the land owners sending the jack boots back to Washington..  

__________________
"Getting your motor revved about taking our guns is going to be what undoes your efforts."

"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
keepinitreal

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Reply with quote  #3 

Nevada ranch standoff could leave dirt on Harry Reid’s reputation

“Fact is, Harry Reid probably didn’t want his name attached to the biggest civilian massacre in U.S. history right before election season.”


__________________
"Getting your motor revved about taking our guns is going to be what undoes your efforts."

"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
woody

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Posts: 10,175
Reply with quote  #4 
I want to know who the combat armed jack boots are. Their names and addresses. I want to know who the inter agency command and control people were. I want to know which one of them had given the order to fire on American Citizens protesting against the Federal Government confiscating property, cattle in this case. I want that person arrested, and charged with treason for ordering combat troops (these are not average Federal agents) they are an armed military group, to fire on American Citizens. Someone issued a kill order on American citizens, and that person should be held responsible for their actions. I am sure the MSM Democrat propaganda networks will be demanding answers any moment now.
__________________
Jane you ignorant slut. Keep your booger hook of the bang switch, you stupid Socialist. 

Beer me Hippie. I feel more like I do now, than when I first got here.
keepinitreal

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Posts: 27,122
Reply with quote  #5 
I just saw the report where the women in the group of 1,000, volunteered to march in front of the group to take the first bullets if the jack boots would have fired.  Brilliant strategy.  I didn't think women in combat would work, boy was I wrong
__________________
"Getting your motor revved about taking our guns is going to be what undoes your efforts."

"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
keepinitreal

Registered:
Posts: 27,122
Reply with quote  #6 

Federal Jackboots are nullified


__________________
"Getting your motor revved about taking our guns is going to be what undoes your efforts."

"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
Lost_1

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Posts: 3,137
Reply with quote  #7 
And sadly this may be coming to a town near you! With the recent action of trying to add the prairie chicken to the endangered species list they could virtually shut down a very large portion of the oil & gas industry in Western Oklahoma, Texas Panhandle, Southwest Kansas and Southern Colorado.

I have hunted quail on the Black Kettle National Grassland in Western Oklahoma for 20+ years. It is very easy to guess the years quail numbers by the spring rain amounts. The small chicks need bugs and seeds to survive the early weeks. With the drought conditions it has been a tough 4 years. Now the prairie chicken faces the same dry hardships as the bobwhite quail, but low quail numbers are not blamed on oil drilling.

__________________
If we are not careful, our colleges will produce a group of close-minded, unscientific, illogical propagandists, consumed with immoral acts. - Dr. Martin Luther King


“Everyone is in favor of free speech. Hardly a day passes without its being extolled, but some people's idea of it is that they are free to say what they like, but if anyone else says anything back, that is an outrage.” Winston S. Churchill


Lost_1

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Posts: 3,137
Reply with quote  #8 
Also keep in mind that the new Director of the BLM (Neil Kornze) was just confirmed 4 days ago by the Senate (which is led by Harry Reid).

http://www.blm.gov/wo/st/en/info/directory.html

His former position prior to BLM? Harry Reid's aide for 8 years.

http://grist.org/news/obama-nominate...-lead-the-blm/



Kornze’s boss, Interior Secretary Sally Jewell, had this to say about him: “Neil has helped implement forward-looking reforms at the BLM to promote energy development in areas of minimal conflict, drive landscape-level planning efforts, and dramatically expand the agency’s use of technology to speed up the process for energy permitting.”

More from an Interior Department press release:

Kornze played a key role in developing the Western Solar Plan, which established 17 low-conflict zones for commercial solar energy development and also identified lands appropriate for conservation, and the agency’s approval of 47 solar, wind and geothermal utility-scale projects on public lands, as a leader of the Department’s Renewable Energy Strike Team. When built, these projects [will] add up to more than 13,300 megawatts — enough electricity to power 4.6 million homes and support 19,000 construction and operations jobs. He also has been a leader in reforming BLM’s oil and gas program, including the upcoming launch of a nation-wide online permitting system that could significantly reduce drilling permit processing times, and in the bureau’s efforts to enhance and increase visitors to the diverse system of national conservation lands.

__________________
If we are not careful, our colleges will produce a group of close-minded, unscientific, illogical propagandists, consumed with immoral acts. - Dr. Martin Luther King


“Everyone is in favor of free speech. Hardly a day passes without its being extolled, but some people's idea of it is that they are free to say what they like, but if anyone else says anything back, that is an outrage.” Winston S. Churchill


woody

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Posts: 10,175
Reply with quote  #9 
Hey leftwinger, read the articles. Maybe you think it's OK for "agents" to confiscate your property, or your neighbors property, roll into your neighborhood with a combat outfit "the good guys", and threaten to grease YOUR family, and neighbors if you object to a heavy handed Federal Government. You are trolling for the administration with that talking point you found on a blog site and cut and pasted. Pathetic, get your head out of your backside, and understand what is happening with the Federal Government training and arming para military groups, and using them to move against the citizens of our nation. It appears the Senator from Nevada, the leader of the Senate, and his former aid who now runs the BLM are in collusion to use their offices to crush a US Citizen, so the Senator can benefit financially from a foreign Corporation who wants the land use rights handed to them by the Federal Government. Read the articles troll, and stop blindly supporting the corrupt and brazen thieves you voted into office.
__________________
Jane you ignorant slut. Keep your booger hook of the bang switch, you stupid Socialist. 

Beer me Hippie. I feel more like I do now, than when I first got here.
bluedog

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Posts: 10,619
Reply with quote  #10 
I see you made it over here, 3leftturns.....Always good to hear opinions.....

I'm in the middle on this issue.....I don't care for our Government playing with guns.....And, I believe everyone should be treated equally....So, if one person is not paying fees and others are, well, there's a discussion in there.......And, no matter what, why don't the people kick Harry Reid out of office?......Goes back to, we're our own worst enemy.....
keepinitreal

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Posts: 27,122
Reply with quote  #11 
Yes, let's all pay more fees.  That's the answer.  Pay more fees to a government that cannot live within it's budget.  Great idea, everyone send in more fees, along with obama's 442 new tax hikes, we need more fees

 Let the man run his cattle

__________________
"Getting your motor revved about taking our guns is going to be what undoes your efforts."

"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
keepinitreal

Registered:
Posts: 27,122
Reply with quote  #12 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lost_1
And sadly this may be coming to a town near you! With the recent action of trying to add the prairie chicken to the endangered species list they could virtually shut down a very large portion of the oil & gas industry in Western Oklahoma, Texas Panhandle, Southwest Kansas and Southern Colorado.

I have hunted quail on the Black Kettle National Grassland in Western Oklahoma for 20+ years. It is very easy to guess the years quail numbers by the spring rain amounts. The small chicks need bugs and seeds to survive the early weeks. With the drought conditions it has been a tough 4 years. Now the prairie chicken faces the same dry hardships as the bobwhite quail, but low quail numbers are not blamed on oil drilling.


There is a regular poster on the softball forum who says the same about the pheasant numbers over the last couple of years.  He hunts them in North Texas and says he didn't even go last year because his guide told him the numbers are not there.  He was offered a seeded hunt and turned it down.  We need more rain and less government

__________________
"Getting your motor revved about taking our guns is going to be what undoes your efforts."

"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
keepinitreal

Registered:
Posts: 27,122
Reply with quote  #13 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3leftturns
Quote:
Originally Posted by keepinitreal
Yes, let's all pay more fees.  That's the answer.  Pay more fees to a government that cannot live within it's budget.  Great idea, everyone send in more fees, along with obama's 442 new tax hikes, we need more fees

 Let the man run his cattle
confederacy of dunces


I like when the name calling begins, been a little boring over here without a token obama supporter.  So you going to hang around this time lefty?

__________________
"Getting your motor revved about taking our guns is going to be what undoes your efforts."

"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
keepinitreal

Registered:
Posts: 27,122
Reply with quote  #14 
how clever.  Along the lines of calrox, masare, dinger et al.  Not much to contribute but the snipes.  
Must be another female contributor, no endurance for the long haul.  I sure miss Susan in times like these
 

__________________
"Getting your motor revved about taking our guns is going to be what undoes your efforts."

"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
keepinitreal

Registered:
Posts: 27,122
Reply with quote  #15 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3leftturns


And when a millionaire freeloader who was getting his property repossessed is vociferously defended....  we are officially at the petulant children's table


all I can visualize when reading this is Harry Reid's 'speeches' and quotes from the senate floor, the most immature, old, wrinkled, white man, millionaire of them all.  

If petulant children is what this government understands then we are well armed children out here.  When this government and it's supporters start calling those that vehemently disagree in principle with them, children, then that clearly marks a line in the sand.

 The English also called the unruly settlers in America 'children' and misbehaved, until our forefathers had had enough of too much government.  More taxation without representation.  You know the rest.

 If you don't see what happened in Nevada as the tip of the iceberg, then you can't catch up to speed now.  You have clearly shown you are a supporter of the jack boot government and I am sure also a NSA and domestic drone supporter as well.

__________________
"Getting your motor revved about taking our guns is going to be what undoes your efforts."

"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
woody

Registered:
Posts: 10,175
Reply with quote  #16 
Just read the articles instead of posting leftist talking points. This is about a land grab by Harry Reid in collusion with his crony running the BLM. It is not going to stop here. The Feds have have created an army to combat civilians. It is not under the control of the military chain of command described in our constitution. It is an army controlled by unelected agency heads. DHS has it's own army to control the peasants. You will comply or be killed and all your possessions taken and given to the agency. My question remains, who are these combat troops, who authorized them to cross over to help the BLM and who authorized them to fire on American citizens protesting their actions?
__________________
Jane you ignorant slut. Keep your booger hook of the bang switch, you stupid Socialist. 

Beer me Hippie. I feel more like I do now, than when I first got here.
pabar61

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Posts: 12,083
Reply with quote  #17 
leftturns - you should view the piece by Judge Andrew Napolitano, a former judge and not a conservative.  He is appalled by the government's heavy handed response in this situation.  The solution, according to the judge, was to place a docket, or a lien, on the rancher so that when he sells the property or dies, the fees get paid.

The argument is not whether he should pay the fees he is legally required to pay.  Whether those fees should be levied in the first place is another matter.  The issue is how the government reacted.  If Bush was president and this happened you can bet the media would be on fire on this issue.

Harry Reid is obviously trying to work this for political and financial gain.

Now, I just posted without name calling and providing some logical arguments.  Would you like to post a reply?

__________________
Will I Wynn is a poster who used to go by the name of Dewey.  He used to criticize people who did that.
keepinitreal

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Posts: 27,122
Reply with quote  #18 
Mr. Bundy has stated that the U.S. Government was collecting fees on the land he grazed as 'management' fees.  There was only collection of fees going on and NO management of these lands.  What say you lefty?  Got any knowledge of how vast acreage should be managed by the Bureau of Land MANAGEMENT?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3leftturns
Misogyny. Add that to the collection of character traits over here. Good work


yes.  Didn't you know those that disagree with you are either racist, misogynistic or homophobic?  Just fill in the blank to suit the conversation to silence your opposition.  I think that ploy is getting old and like the boy who cried wolf, hardly will be heeded going forward.  The ploy was used to get obama into his 2nd term and holder and obama are still trotting it out as late as last week, as Louie Gohmert made mince meat out of Eric holder.  I made no blanket statement about women posters, my observation is terpalum and dietcoke are the only female posters here [since Susan passed away] that contribute anything of relevance.  The snipers of the forum are well known and mostly women, diet coke and terp alum are complete opposite, well spoken, balanced contributors.

lefty, your contribution, that I see on this thread is labeling those that side with the rancher, as numbskulls, dunces, petulant children and/or misogynists.  I thought the left disliked labels, as stated by the board's 'moderator'.  Labels are fine with me but can you expound on how from one thread you can know who the numbskulls are?  That is actually one of my fave labels.  Is everyone right of center to be considered 'numbskulls'?
 
__________________

__________________
"Getting your motor revved about taking our guns is going to be what undoes your efforts."

"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
Lost_1

Registered:
Posts: 3,137
Reply with quote  #19 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3leftturns
Quote:
Originally Posted by woody
Hey leftwinger, read the articles. Maybe you think it's OK for "agents" to confiscate your property, or your neighbors property, roll into your neighborhood with a combat outfit "the good guys", and threaten to grease YOUR family, and neighbors if you object to a heavy handed Federal Government. You are trolling for the administration with that talking point you found on a blog site and cut and pasted. Pathetic, get your head out of your backside, and understand what is happening with the Federal Government training and arming para military groups, and using them to move against the citizens of our nation. It appears the Senator from Nevada, the leader of the Senate, and his former aid who now runs the BLM are in collusion to use their offices to crush a US Citizen, so the Senator can benefit financially from a foreign Corporation who wants the land use rights handed to them by the Federal Government. Read the articles troll, and stop blindly supporting the corrupt and brazen thieves you voted into office.
Pretty basic concept.

You don't pay what you owe, you get your stuff taken.

You get your car repo'ed... house foreclosed.

The LAST thing I want is someone getting ahead of me because he isn't paying the fee that my neighbors and I are.

Stop supporting a millionaire freeloader.

This 'argument' you are trying to put forth would embarrass a 5-year-old.





I'm going to assume that you are in the eastern half of the US and are not real familiar with USFS, BLM, Grazing rights. The BLM modified his grazing permit and when he refused to sign the new permit is when this all started. He is the last rancher in the area, the BLM has forced the rest of the area ranchers out of business. The BLM is also removing the history about Cliven Bundy from their website. There is a precedence in this case:

http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/constitution/item/15602-federal-judge-rules-forproperty-rights-smacks-down-abusive-feds


The USFS/BLM does not own all of the land that the cattle are on. The federal land and the Bundy lands are all intermingled, Bundy might own half a section, and the BLM has control of 3/4 section right next to it. I don't believe Nevada is a land grant state so they wouldn't have section roads every mile to separate the borders. If the BLM does not want Mr. Bundys cattle, why don't they fence off their parcels? On top of this the Bundys are in possession of ALL of the water rights, making the BLM land worthless as longs as the Bundys hold on to their lands.

This all started back in 1993, around this time also the Clinton administration started funneling Pittman-Robertson monies, taxes that sportsman pay to help wildlife habitat, into a slush fund that they used to award grants to environmentalists and anti hunting groups.

There are thousands of illegals trespassing across BLM land and we have yet to see an armed response, but those cattle needed to go. The confrontation televised of the guy being tasered is because they were running the cattle by helicopter and brought in backhoes and dump trucks. The bystanders wanted to see if those were rendering trucks where they were disposing of the cattle they had ran to death.

There is way more to the story.....

__________________
If we are not careful, our colleges will produce a group of close-minded, unscientific, illogical propagandists, consumed with immoral acts. - Dr. Martin Luther King


“Everyone is in favor of free speech. Hardly a day passes without its being extolled, but some people's idea of it is that they are free to say what they like, but if anyone else says anything back, that is an outrage.” Winston S. Churchill


CoachB25

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Posts: 2,234
Reply with quote  #20 
Please forgive me if I am wrong but I thought that this rancher's position was that his family ran cattle on this range for over 100 years and never had to pay and so, now he isn't paying.  For many of us, we have been "Grandfathered" in to some type of agreement and so, I think that is his position. 

This whole thing is a charade anyway.  This is about Harry Reid wanting this land to gain political kickbacks.  Nothing more or less.  BTW, if my interpretation of why this family is not paying for use of the land is wrong, then, by all means, he should have to pay.

Finally, who were these armed government men?  Were they private contractors?  Do we do that in America.  If so, what is the difference between them and the Hessians?
bluedog

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Posts: 10,619
Reply with quote  #21 
Quote:
There is way more to the story.....


This is why the discussion needs to play out.....

Here is what Tucker Carlson said....

Quote:
I have a lot of sympathy for the Bundys. I think they were completely mistreated by the federal government. But I still think it's important to point out that this land does not belong to them and that's not a minor distinction, it's the essence of private property.


Make sense?...Yes?...No?

I would hope the voters would stop Harry Reid from allowing that land to be stolen......
Lost_1

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Posts: 3,137
Reply with quote  #22 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluedog
Quote:
There is way more to the story.....


This is why the discussion needs to play out.....

Here is what Tucker Carlson said....

Quote:
I have a lot of sympathy for the Bundys. I think they were completely mistreated by the federal government. But I still think it's important to point out that this land does not belong to them and that's not a minor distinction, it's the essence of private property.


Make sense?...Yes?...No?


The United States paid Mexico $15,000,000 "in consideration of the extension acquired by the boundaries of the United States" (see Article XII of the treaty) and agreed to pay American citizens debts owed to them by the Mexican government (see Article XV). Other provisions included protection of property and civil rights of Mexican nationals living within the new boundaries of the United States (see Articles VIII and IX), the promise of the United States to police its boundaries (see Article XI), and compulsory arbitration of future disputes between the two countries (see Article XXI).

The phrase "extension acquired by the boundaries of the United States" means extension of its jurisdiction, not its ownership. The government does not 'own', it 'controls'. Its control is subject to the rights of citizens and inhabitants, otherwise there is no freedom.

Here's the actual Article XII from the treaty:

ARTICLE XII

In consideration of the extension acquired by the boundaries of the United States, as defined in the fifth article of the present treaty, the Government of the United States engages to pay to that of the Mexican Republic the sum of fifteen millions of dollars.

Immediately after the treaty shall have been duly ratified by the Government of the Mexican Republic, the sum of three millions of dollars shall be paid to the said Government by that of the United States, at the city of Mexico, in the gold or silver coin of Mexico The remaining twelve millions of dollars shall be paid at the same place, and in the same coin, in annual installments of three millions of dollars each, together with interest on the same at the rate of six per centum per annum. This interest shall begin to run upon the whole sum of twelve millions from the day of the ratification of the present treaty by--the Mexican Government, and the first of the installments shall be paid at the expiration of one year from the same day. Together with each annual installment, as it falls due, the whole interest accruing on such installment from the beginning shall also be paid.

Articles VIII and IX provide for protecting the 'property' and 'rights' of the inhabitants, ergo the Bundy family had grazing rights protected under the treaty. when Nevada was incorporated as a state, those grazing rights came under the state. The federal government cannot take them away unless by application of the 5th Amendment to the US Constitution.


__________________
If we are not careful, our colleges will produce a group of close-minded, unscientific, illogical propagandists, consumed with immoral acts. - Dr. Martin Luther King


“Everyone is in favor of free speech. Hardly a day passes without its being extolled, but some people's idea of it is that they are free to say what they like, but if anyone else says anything back, that is an outrage.” Winston S. Churchill


bhblue

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Posts: 2,161
Reply with quote  #23 

While I think this smacks of crony capitalism on Harry Reid's part, that's nothing new for either party.  This is land owned by the State of Nevada and it's residents.  It's my understanding that the Federal Government can't own land other than DC and some territories.  At some point, Nevada handed control and management of it to the Feds, maybe even as a requirement for its Statehood.  In 1993, this Endangered Species Act gave the BLM the power to charge fees to use it, which I believe was intended to discourage its use.  Regardless of the motives of the BLM, USFS, or even Harry Reid, the bottom line is that the Bundys should have begun paying the fees when they came into effect if they wanted to continue to use this land.  The fact that they had been grazing it for x number of years doesn't matter.  The Bundys have lost in court on this issue more than once.  We can argue whether the government should be allowed to do things like this, but for now, they are allowed.  Our elected officials apparently decided that in 1993.

As far as the tactics use by the BLM, I don't recall a whole lot of uproar on here when the idiotic, but peaceful protesters were pepper sprayed on the public campus of Cal.  I, like Woody and CoachB25, would like to know where this "muscle" came from, but in the video I saw the man that was tazered was being pretty aggressive and coming pretty close to the "officers".  I can't say I wouldn't have tazered him myself.

Lost_1

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Posts: 3,137
Reply with quote  #24 
Water rights are "Use it or loose it", by not providing easement to Bundy lands surrounded by BLM land he would loose water rights making the ranch unable to sustain a herd.
__________________
If we are not careful, our colleges will produce a group of close-minded, unscientific, illogical propagandists, consumed with immoral acts. - Dr. Martin Luther King


“Everyone is in favor of free speech. Hardly a day passes without its being extolled, but some people's idea of it is that they are free to say what they like, but if anyone else says anything back, that is an outrage.” Winston S. Churchill


Lost_1

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Posts: 3,137
Reply with quote  #25 
BLM kind of just does as they see fit.



__________________
If we are not careful, our colleges will produce a group of close-minded, unscientific, illogical propagandists, consumed with immoral acts. - Dr. Martin Luther King


“Everyone is in favor of free speech. Hardly a day passes without its being extolled, but some people's idea of it is that they are free to say what they like, but if anyone else says anything back, that is an outrage.” Winston S. Churchill


woody

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Reply with quote  #26 
Who sent out an order to kill American Citizens that were protesting against a paramilitary operation? I contend that if they would have fired the lefties would have been outraged only by the killing and wounding of horses that the protesters were riding. Where were the paramilitary groups facing down the occupy wall street crowd announcing they would shoot them? Never have heard a peep from the MSM over a military operation against American civilians or senator Reid's involvement in a land grab for personal gain. This group of thugs toting automatic weapons who are payed by such Corporations as the BLM, yes they are a corporation, should be disbanded and the department heads that ordered them to fire on citizens charged with treason, and hung by the neck if convicted of ordering privately contracted military troops to kill Americans. Ask why the BLM would pay over $900,000 to a contractor to round up 400 scrawny head of cattle worth 1200-1500 for a cow calf pair, and then throw massive sums of money towards hiring combat troops to kill anyone that objected? Who are these armed "agents" that look like they just returned from a black op in Afghanistan? Who ordered them there, payed them, and gave them a shoot to kill order against American civilians? Who did it? Why did they do it, and did the Obama administration have ANY knowledge of what was happening on the ground? If not, why not? Just asking where the MSM was, and why they are not investigating what is happening. Not a peep.
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masare

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Reply with quote  #27 
So, just to clarify...if you don't want to pay taxes or in this case the right to graze which you agreed upon...you don't have to if you get Fox News, Huckabee and as many crazies as you can find to back you up...you don't have to pay? Hmmm!
keepinitreal

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Reply with quote  #28 
So just to clarify, we don't have the manpower or the desire to send men and equipment to secure our southern borders and deport the lawbreakers.  OTOH we have the manpower and funds to confiscate a rancher's herd and threaten the rancher, his family and other American citizens with the firearms that the loony libs are trying to take from law abiding citizens?  

We know the real crazies, the northeast elitists that sit in their ivory towers and those that hide behind some government bureaucracy name tag making 6 figures off the blood and the sweat of those that work in this country.  The crazies who aimed hi-powered sniper rifles at it's law abiding citizens.

We need a separation in this country, a separation from those who fawn over a life controlled by big government and those of us who still have the desire to live as free peoples.  We need a separation from those that would not know how to survive without Big Brother.  We should have a choice whether to live free or not.  Our founders would be so disappointed with this version of their country

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Lost_1

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Reply with quote  #29 
Quote:
Originally Posted by masare
So, just to clarify...if you don't want to pay taxes or in this case the right to graze which you agreed upon...you don't have to if you get Fox News, Huckabee and as many crazies as you can find to back you up...you don't have to pay? Hmmm!



http://truthfarmer.com/2014/04/12/more-back-story-on-cliven-bundy-blm-war/


More Back Story on Cliven Bundy BLM War

Rec’d via email, and facts stated have checked out elsewhere—Do not forget, earliest reports stated the BLM was going to go in a couple of years ago, but decided the conflict would be too extensive so didn’t go in. They have either decided we are now sufficiently brain dead and won’t actually do anything, or they are ready to use all that ammo the Fed’s have purchased. We will soon find out:

A Rancher TELLS ALL:

B Hunt wrote:

I live in SW Utah. I grew up on a ranch less than 100 miles from the Bundy’s ranch. My father knows Cliven Bundy. I know Cliven’s son Ryan. This is not a hoax, it is an action of force by the BLM.

The BLM was going to sell the cattle at one of the smallest cattle markets in Utah. No cattle markets in Nevada would take the cattle without a properly signed brand inspection (which the BLM cannot obtain without Cliven Bundy’s signature). The BLM paid the owner of the Utah cattle market $300,000 to do the sale (‘R’ Livestock Connection in Monroe, Utah, owned by one Scott G. Robbins, according to the Utah Business Entity Search). Utah Governor Herbert stepped in and forbid them from bringing the cattle into Utah without the legally required health and brand inspections (which again, require Bundy’s signature) and that no feral cattle are allowed to be imported at all (per Utah statute). Because Bundy claims ownership over maybe 350-500 head of branded cattle, the other 500-700 estimated head of cattle would all be considered feral. BLM officially backed off, but we suspect they are still secretly shipping them through Utah without any permission to do so, to “private” buyers in Colorado. The contract cowboys that the BLM hired to do the roundup are from Sampson Livestock in Meadow, Utah (traitors one and all).

From what I understand, Cliven Bundy owns both the Water Rights and Grazing Rights to all of the land where his cattle run. If Bundy failed to use them, the Grazing Rights would revert to the BLM and would be retired, while the Water Rights would revert to the State of Nevada, likely to be sold to the highest bidder (which would probably be a bidding war between mineral companies that are behind this action with the BLM and the City of Las Vegas which is thirsty for water and has had multiple attempts to buy water–through eminent domain from Utah farmers and ranchers–from Utah, which were all blocked by the Utah Legislature and Utah Governor Herbert). Chances are, the BLM has already filed a claim on the water rights so that they can sell to the highest bidder (instead of the state) and are trying to get the cattle off to show that Bundy cannot use the water beneficially (much like what the US Forest Service and BLM both tried to do to Wayne Hage).

Now, for Cliven Bundy, he’s not fighting this for his cattle or his own livelihood. He recognizes that he will probably die before this fight is over. He has said multiple times that he is fighting this to wake people up about the tyranny of the Federal Government and also to help wake up the western states about getting the rights to their own land back from the federal government, which has repeatedly shut down ranchers and closed off land. (MO = 1st, get all the ranchers, farmers, Native Americans, and foresters that use the land for positive, sustainable production off of the land; 2nd, grab up all the resources; 3rd, close off the lands to public access including camping, hiking, horseback riding, hunting, fishing, boating, shooting, etc; 4th, sell off the resources to the highest bidder regardless of what that will do to the land, the local environment, or the economy; 5th, collect royalties on the resources in perpetuity; 6th, reduce and eliminate all SLS and PILT payments to the states, impoverishing them beyond belief.)

Anyway, thanks for posting about this. It is important for us to be able to raise the appropriate resistance.

My Response:
Thank you for sending your valuable insight. This contained the details we were all missing.

From this we can now firmly conclude:

1. The BLM’s actions are not only flatly illegal, they are unlawful, and not only unlawful, they are so unlawful that it took bribing someone with a $300,000 payoff to get them to accept stolen cattle from a Government agency. I do not think that could be topped ANYWHERE else in the world, other than with something like a Mexican drug cartel.

So we have a clear cut case of unlawful and prosecutable actions by the BLM in this case.

2. The real goal is to shut down public access to these lands. Obviously Cliven Bundy was not a jerk, and he let people go back there to explore. I myself have done a LOT of back country exploring, and noticed in the early 2000′s that they closed down all the back roads about a half mile before the destination they used to go to to discourage people from exploring the wilderness. Rather than drive the whole way, you had to get out and walk a considerable distance to scenes such as Swazy’s leap, Paul Bunyans Wood Pile, and practically anywhere else you would want to go while out 4 Wheeling. And in the desert sun, that long of a walk was usually tough to do. This resulted in these types of locations no longer being visited, which effectively equaled a shut down.

3. The motives are for profit. Rather than manage the lands responsibly, the BLM is stealing it from it’s rightful holders via corrupt actions and legal loop holes, and selling it off to corporate interests. This is cold hard proof that America is not a democracy, or more importantly a Republic, it is in fact a facist dictatorship where corruption rules and rights, freedom and honor are irrelevant.

The BLM killed hundreds of desert tortoises on purpose
They say they had to kill them because they did not have the funds to care for them. Here are two really good solutions to that “problem.” 1. Just take them out in the desert and turn them loose. -OR- 2. They could have taken the three million dollars they said the Bundy raid will cost them, CALLED OFF THE RAID, and SAVED THE TURTLES with that three million. If they had three million to destroy Bundy, they had it for the turtles as well but did not use it for that because tyranny comes first.

Steeped in arrogance and incompetence, once again a Federal agency fails to see the obvious. Or perhaps they do see it but they could care less about nature and instead operate as the enforcement arm of a band of high ranking thugs.

The truth, in the words of a Bundy
Mike Combs By SHIREE BUNDY COX:

I have had people ask me to explain my dad’s stance on this BLM fight. Here it is in as simple of terms as I can explain it. There is so much [more] to it, but here it is in a nut shell. My great grandpa bought the rights to the Bunkerville allotment back in 1887, around there. Then he sold them to my grandpa who then turned them over to my dad in 1972. These men bought and paid for their rights to the range and also built waters, fences and roads to assure the survival of their cattle, all with their own money, not with tax dollars. These rights to the land use are called preemptive rights.

Some where down the line, to keep the cows from over grazing, came the bureau of land management. They were supposed to assist the ranchers in the management of their ranges, while the ranchers paid a yearly allotment, which was to be used to pay the BLM wages and to help with repairs and improvements of the ranches. My dad did pay his grazing fees for years to the BLM, until they were no longer using his fees to help him and to improve. Instead, they began using these money’s against the ranchers. They bought all the rest of the ranchers in the area out, with their own grazing fees. When they offered to buy my dad out for a pittance, he said no thanks and then fired them because they weren’t doing their job. He quit paying the BLM but tried giving his grazing fees to the county, which they turned down. So my dad just went on running his ranch and making his own improvements with his own equipment and his own money, not taxes.

In essence, the BLM was managing my dad out of business. Well, when buying him out didn’t work, they used the endangered species card. You’ve already heard about the desert tortoise. Well that didn’t work either, so then began the threats and the court orders, which my dad has proven to be unlawful for all these years. Now they’re desperate. It’s come down to buying the brand inspector off and threatening the County Sheriff. Everything they’re doing at this point is illegal and totally against the constitution of the United States of America.

Now you may be saying,”how sad, but what does this have to do with me?” Well, I’ll tell you. They will get rid of Cliven Bundy, the last man standing on the Bunkerville allotment and then they will close all the roads so no one can ever go on it again. Next, it’s Utah’s turn. Mark my words, Utah is next.

Then there’s the issue of the cattle that are at this moment being stolen. See, even if dad hasn’t paid them, those cattle do belong to him. Regardless where they are, they are my fathers property. His herd has been part of that range for over a hundred years, long before the BLM even existed. Now the Feds think they can just come in and remove them and sell them without a legal brand inspection or without my dad’s signature on it. They think they can take them over two boarders, which is illegal, ask any trucker. Then they plan to take them to the Richfeild Auction and sell them. All with our tax money. They have paid off the contract cowboys and the auction owner, as well as the Nevada brand inspector with our tax dollars. See how slick they are?


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spazsdad

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Reply with quote  #30 
Quote:
Originally Posted by masare
So, just to clarify...if you don't want to pay taxes or in this case the right to graze which you agreed upon...you don't have to if you get Fox News, Huckabee and as many crazies as you can find to back you up...you don't have to pay? Hmmm!

And just like clockwork masare chimes in with a snipe with no basis in fact. Have you read the accounts of what has transpired there or just going of some liberal talking points you were spoon fed.

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