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EarlyGrayce

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Reply with quote  #31 
Quote:
Originally Posted by woody
Start GovCare. Fund something outside of Medicaid, and Medicare to take care of indigent people. These are people that cannot take care of themselves. Those that have preexisting conditions that are working families or individuals should get coverage at the same insurance rates as everyone else buying insurance. If you are a ward of the state, you get HC handouts via GovCare. You aren't paying any taxes or insurance, so you don't get "subsidized", or free insurance. You will not be allowed to live off working people's money. You are a ward of the state, and get the rationed HC you didn't pay for. You, your spouse, your parents don't work, you don't get to rely on everyone else to subsidize your HC through their insurance premiums. You get on a HC plan administered by Democrat Bureaucrats, and hope that congress provides funding for your HC, separate from your free housing, food stamps, utilities, and whatever else you can't provide for yourself or your family, unlike every other working person. What is so hard to understand about that?

Edit:

PS, I should not be required to subsidize stupidity, ignorance, nor indifference. I am however more than willing to help those that are mentally, or truly physically disabled. Everyone else should get off their ass and get to work bettering their own family's financial situation. I can tell you how to become successful, I will even buy you books if you can comprehend what you are reading, but I refuse to do the work for you. That's your job.


Keep bangin that drum, brother. I'm with you.

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"I think turden got excited and pluralized it, he's a glutton. "
EarlyGrayce

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Reply with quote  #32 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pabar61
They're employing the same tactic as Nancy Pelosi.  None of them really know what's in it.


Roger that.

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"I think turden got excited and pluralized it, he's a glutton. "
bluedog

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Reply with quote  #33 
Quote:
Let's see if they can get it done today.


Nah, they're too busy messing with this stuff...........

Quote:
House Oversight and Government Reform chair Jason Chaffetz commented in a USA Today story published Wednesday that said lawmakers may reintroduce a bill that would target presidential pensions if a former commander-in-chief earns outside income of at least $400,000.




DRAIN THE SWAMP!!!!!!
pabar61

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Reply with quote  #34 
Agreed on the stupidity of being in reaction mode simply because Obama the hypocrite is cashing in on his time in office.  If the idiots want to pay him $400K, why should any of the rest of us care?  Focus on what's killing this country - runaway spending, out-of-control entitlements, and Islam.
mikec

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Reply with quote  #35 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pabar61
They're employing the same tactic as Nancy Pelosi.  None of them really know what's in it.


Does trump know?  Does he care? 

I suspect Bannon wants to check off a box on his big board.  Details are unimportant.  What is important is a trump photo op signing a law that "ends Obama care", even if it doesn't.
pabar61

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Reply with quote  #36 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikec


Does trump know?  Does he care? 

I suspect Bannon wants to check off a box on his big board.  Details are unimportant.  What is important is a trump photo op signing a law that "ends Obama care", even if it doesn't.


I'm sure Trump doesn't know.  This is a complete cluster on the part of every politician who puts an R after his or her name.
spazsdad

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Reply with quote  #37 
Republicans have been dem lap dogs for so long they don't know how to lead anymore. The party only knows how to operate from a position of weakness even though they have the strength now. Sad and frustrating that a conservative agenda is once again pushed to the back burner. But watch, come election time they will be send out their B.S. letters asking for support and money to fight the dems. F'em
uwApoligist

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Reply with quote  #38 
Pelosi delivered the rebuttal on Trumpcare:

mikec

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Reply with quote  #39 
Agree spaz.  The Dems are now the ultra-liberal party, and the GOP is the left of center, but not too far out there yet party.

As predicted, trump has killed conservatism at the federal level.  Party over country has been the vehicle of destruction.

It is still practiced in some states, which is why I think this country will split.  The chasm is too wide to mend.

As for midterms, the GOP will be crying when conservatives stay home, and Pelosi and Schumer are back in power.


Quote:
Originally Posted by spazsdad
Republicans have been dem lap dogs for so long they don't know how to lead anymore. The party only knows how to operate from a position of weakness even though they have the strength now. Sad and frustrating that a conservative agenda is once again pushed to the back burner. But watch, come election time they will be send out their B.S. letters asking for support and money to fight the dems. F'em
EarlyGrayce

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Reply with quote  #40 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikec


As predicted, trump has killed conservatism at the federal level. 




Oh Mike.

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EarlyGrayce

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Reply with quote  #41 
Quote:
Originally Posted by spazsdad
Republicans have been dem lap dogs for so long they don't know how to lead anymore. The party only knows how to operate from a position of weakness even though they have the strength now. Sad and frustrating that a conservative agenda is once again pushed to the back burner. But watch, come election time they will be send out their B.S. letters asking for support and money to fight the dems. F'em


Agreed. It seems that conservative fears have been confirmed. Gaining a majority across the board, and a WH, wasn't the answer to the problem. 

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"I think turden got excited and pluralized it, he's a glutton. "
keepinitreal

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Reply with quote  #42 
You guys make me want to reach for the box of tissues.  Nothing you said Early but in general.  

Trump may not have united the [R] in congress/senate but hilLIARy wouldn't have either.  Some of you have said it, that the [R]s don't know how to lead.  I'll take this president over bi1tching because hilLIARy was elected.  I'd rather the idiots in Congress, try to unite with him as prez than trying it with their lies. [i.e. give us the numbers and we'll do better]  At least they've been exposed as all bluster and no action.  McConnel holds the key and he is no leader.  We need term limits more than any other piece of legislation.

Anyone had time to decipher if this is obamacare light?  It won't pass senate from just what I've read up on

This article/link/website is written with a slight left slant but find an opinion that's not

https://obamacarefacts.com/trumpcare-explained/

EX:

BOTTOM LINE: This is a centered bill. It isn’t a “way better” plan by any measure, but it is a workable alternative that shifts around “winners and losers.” Obviously, higher-income Americans and Businesses are the “winners,” but this is arguably consistent with Trump and the GOP’s message. We didn’t elect Bernie Sanders, so we didn’t get single payer, we didn’t elect Hillary, so we didn’t get ObamaCare 2.0, we elected Trump and Ryan, so we got their plan, which we call TrumpCare. That isn’t as much a judgment call as it is a summing up of reality.


Robinhood

  • Eliminates most of ObamaCare’s taxes on those with higher incomes, employers, and industry (the result being a major tax break for the top fraction of a percent).

  • It would increase the taxes paid by middle-class workers on their wages by making the value of employer insurance taxable income. At the same time, it would cut taxes on employer benefit packages valued over $500,000, the tax on incomes over $200,000-$250,000, the tax on insurers’ profits, and the tax on brand-named pharmaceutical companies.





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"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
keepinitreal

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Reply with quote  #43 
The Dems and obama phucked us good when they opened this Pandora's box.  
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"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
mikec

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Reply with quote  #44 
I have been traveling, again, and haven't had a chance to read it yet.  Will try to look more at it this weekend.

If it now treats insurance through work as taxable income, the wheels will come off.
keepinitreal

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Reply with quote  #45 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikec


If it now treats insurance through work as taxable income, the wheels will come off.


I hope so

The working man gets shafted for the benefit of the porch-sitter

NIMBY



__________________
"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
mikec

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Reply with quote  #46 
NIMBY - too funny.  I deal with either government staff, elected officials, or NIMBY's all day long.  What a living.
mikec

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Reply with quote  #47 
Quote:
Originally Posted by EarlyGrayce


Oh Mike.



We shall see if it holds, but so far, people who used to fancy themselves as conservatives have rushed headlong into the latest liberal idea.

Party over country.
woody

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Reply with quote  #48 
Quote:
Originally Posted by keepinitreal
The Dems and obama phucked us good when they opened this Pandora's box.  


That is an understatement. Like clockwork, this morning the MSM as predicted were reading the DNC talking points. On CNN Cuomo kept chanting the 10 million will lose HC so the richest 1% will get a tax cut line. He kept going on and on saying what do we do about these 10 million?? What will we do??

WTF about the rest of us Americans paying double premium costs and 10K deductibles so that this coveted 10 million gets what? Free HC? These are the 10 million wards of the state that Cuomo is talking about. He contends that only around 1 million Americans are paying higher premiums. He never addresses 10K deductibles that means we are all paying out of pocket for HC while the blessed 10 million cry that they aren't getting enough free stuff. How many people are so ignorant as to believe anything from people like Cuomo, or Joe on MSNBC?

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You Liberals crying for open borders for the most part, don't live on the border. You are therefore insulated from illegal immigration. You are immune from the local costs involved, both economic, and in lives lost. So unless you live down here, and bear the burden, STFU about "immigration reform". You know nothing, and are better suited to eating bandwidth and scones at a Starbucks than telling me what I should feel. Arrogant Pissants.

"IT'S GOOD TO BE DA KING"
uwApoligist

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Reply with quote  #49 
Quote:
Originally Posted by EarlyGrayce


Oh Mike.

Lol
Lost_1

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Reply with quote  #50 
Quote:
Originally Posted by woody


That is an understatement. Like clockwork, this morning the MSM as predicted were reading the DNC talking points. On CNN Cuomo kept chanting the 10 million will lose HC so the richest 1% will get a tax cut line. He kept going on and on saying what do we do about these 10 million?? What will we do??

WTF about the rest of us Americans paying double premium costs and 10K deductibles so that this coveted 10 million gets what? Free HC? These are the 10 million wards of the state that Cuomo is talking about. He contends that only around 1 million Americans are paying higher premiums. He never addresses 10K deductibles that means we are all paying out of pocket for HC while the blessed 10 million cry that they aren't getting enough free stuff. How many people are so ignorant as to believe anything from people like Cuomo, or Joe on MSNBC?



In my best rainman voice:

Lots of them, Lots and lots of them........

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If we are not careful, our colleges will produce a group of close-minded, unscientific, illogical propagandists, consumed with immoral acts. - Dr. Martin Luther King


“Everyone is in favor of free speech. Hardly a day passes without its being extolled, but some people's idea of it is that they are free to say what they like, but if anyone else says anything back, that is an outrage.” Winston S. Churchill


mikec

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Reply with quote  #51 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lost_1



In my best rainman voice:

Lots of them, Lots and lots of them........


You can start with everyone who voted for Clinton, which is more than half the country, unfortunately.
uwApoligist

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Reply with quote  #52 
Here is a post from someone that says they read it.  Of course they are pro Trump, so take that for what it is worth.   Seems it had a lot of what the HFC wanted in it.  Senate/McCain will pull a lot of that back out before it is done.

Here is the link to the Bill

https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/BILLS-115hr1628rh/pdf/BILLS-115hr1628rh.pdf

And here we go...

1: Add 400 million to Medicare budget

2: HOLY 5HIT. One year from the passing of the law, no federal funding to states for 501 c 3 who specifically do abortions!!! This defunds planned parenthood outright!

3: REPEALS STATE MEDICARE Expansion for everyone except pregnant women. LOWER Taxes! Less Socialism!

4: Eliminates cuts to the Medicare Disproportionate Share Hospital. This will help a large number of people on Medicaid and uninsured individuals, as the money would go to them! Good!

5: Gives power back to the states to decide who is cut from state medical care on a case by case basis for instances such as lottery winnings, inheritance, or any other cash windfall

6: Protects the states from having to pay for insurance for people who are not eligible. SPECIFICALLY TARGETS ILLEGAL ALIENS. THEY MUST PROVIDE PROOF OF CITIZENSHIP OR NO MEDICAL CARE!

7: Provides a bigger financial safety net for NON MEDICARE EXPANSION STATES by giving more funding to Federal medical assistance percentage. Basically more money to cover people until 2021

8: Says people on State health insurance can be checked for eligibility as frequent as every 6 months now and allows a55holes to be fined who defraud the system by applying and getting care despite not qualifying for it.

9: Increases federal fund matching to state expenditures for medical care by 5% increase

10: If any of the 50 states spends too much on healthcare (has excess aggregate medical assistance expenditures) more than what the feds give them after 2020. Then the feds will punish the states for being wasteful and reduce thier next payment by 25%!!! OUCH If states waste money, they lose money! EDIT A: Except for DSH, Medicare cost sharing, safey net provider payments EDIT B: Then it goes into math explaining how to calculate the federal allotment to the states. EDIT C: If the states try to mess around and not give the feds the expenditure info on time they are penalized -1% of previous years allotment. EDIT D: Gives the feds the power to audit the states to investigate for any messery in the expenditure numbers they give the feds.

11: Totally Repeals part of Obamacare that deals with ""Reduced cost-sharing for individuals enrolling in qualified health plans"" Basically Obamacare said that cost sharing applies how the government says it does. This destroys the poverty trap. GOOD

12: Creates a BRAND NEW Service called ‘Patient and State Stability Fund’ to be administered by the Secretary of Health and Human Services that provides funding to the 50 states through medicare/medicaid from 2018 to 2026. This money can be used for the following A) High risk people who cant seem to get private health insurance B) Provides incentives to Insurance companies to negotiate with the States to stabilize insurance premiums C) By reducing the cost of health insurance by helping pay for sick people who use health insurance alot D)Promoting competition and participation in the markets E) Promote emphasis & access on preventative services, dental vision, mental, and substance addictions F) Paying the Insurance companies directly or indirectly for playing by the rules set by the Admin G) Provide financial assistance to the states by helping chip in for the costs to help keep costs lower.

13: Explains how a state can be eligible for federal funds. A) State can use funds to pay for 75% of expenses that are between 50k and 350k. If there is left over funds from the previous year, the Secretary of Health and Human Services can decide where to put the money at their discretion.

14: Makes it LEGAL for insurance companies to penalize you if you drop health insurance for 63 days or more. IT IS A 30% increase in health insurance penalty for dropping coverage! This is to disincentivize people waiting until they get sick to buy coverage. (I agree with this as a good middle of the road compromise - this differs from the other user who was accused of "concern trolling")

15: REPEALS the bronze, silver, gold, platinum healthcare model on Jan 1, 2020.

16: Protects Obamacare "Preexisting condition policy"

17: Grandmothers Obamacare plans. Literally "If you like your plan you can keep it.. by law"

18: Frees insurance companies to add additional abortion coverage and to create whatever they want. Destroys Obamacare Mandate to force every plan to cover abortion. PLUS insurance cannot use federal tax money to pay for or subsidize this in anyway.

19: Any insurance program not included in the healthcare exchange does not qualify for Federal subsidies.

20: Defines TaxCredits for income and tax brackets via age and income for individuals

21: Ends the Premium Tax Credit on Jan 1 2020.

22: Removes Tax Credit For Business Health Insurance that cover Abortions

23: AMENDS (NOT REPEALS) Indivudal mandate and brings tax to 0% and fine to $0!!! Bye bye Obamacare tax!

24: AMENDS (NOT REPEALS) Employer mandate and brings fines down to $0. This means bye bye 50 employee cap!

25: Repeals Mandatory Employee tax on health insurance. Big Win!

26: Repeals tax on over the counter medication! Cheaper medicine!

27: Reduces Health Savings Account tax from 20% to 10%- 15%

28: Repeals limitations on how much money you can put into a flexible spending account!

29: Repeals Medical Device Excise Tax! Cheaper procedures and cheaper costs!

30: Repeals the law to allow Deduction for expense related to the medicare D Subsidy

31: Amends Medicare deduction income level growth rate from 10% to 7.5%

32: Creates a refundable tax credit for having health insurance for individuals and to a lesser extent employers for providing it

33: Creates a tax payer subsidy to the insurance companies on Jan 1 2020 run by the Secretary of Health and Human Services

34: Allows the Secretary of Health and Human Services to credit Health Savings Account Directly to anyone who qualifies.

35: Amends Law to removing the artifical cap of $2,250 and Dramatically increasing the amount someone can fund their Health Savings Account

36: Allows spouses to catch up and add more to Health Savings Accounts after the age of 55

37: Lets you use a Health Savings Account for things that happened in the past IF the health insurance was established within 60 days of opening the HSA.

38: Repeals Obamacare tax/fees on prescription drugs totally

39: Repeals Obamacare Health Insurance Tax

40: Repeals Tanning Tax

41: Repeals this monstrosity TOTALLY AND COMPLETELY. BOTTOM LINE LESS TAXES!

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/26/1411

THATS IT! ALL DONE!

woody

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Reply with quote  #53 
Cruz said this thing will have a hard time making it out of the senate. Ya think??

The MSM, in lockstep with the "resistance" aka the communist leaning DNC is doing a PR pivot. They now don't have to defend an imploding AHCA, that would soon have exchanges with no carriers. They can now dump it's epic failure on the GOP.

I can here the talking points now.

1) The AHCA, (no longer called Obamacare in "newspeak") just needed a few tweaks.

2) Now that the AHCA has been killed by the evil GOP, tens of millions of Americans will die because they wont get any HC.

3) The top 1% of wage earners are getting a tax cut instead of providing HC for 10 million Americans.


__________________
You Liberals crying for open borders for the most part, don't live on the border. You are therefore insulated from illegal immigration. You are immune from the local costs involved, both economic, and in lives lost. So unless you live down here, and bear the burden, STFU about "immigration reform". You know nothing, and are better suited to eating bandwidth and scones at a Starbucks than telling me what I should feel. Arrogant Pissants.

"IT'S GOOD TO BE DA KING"
uwApoligist

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Reply with quote  #54 
Unfortunately the healthcare conversation is still happening on Dems terms.  It is all about the numbers that are not getting covered.
EarlyGrayce

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Reply with quote  #55 
Woody and UWa, yes on both.

A civilization's unwillingness and/or inability to face and address the realities of their limits is another classic facet of a civilization as it slides its way down the backside of Empire towards disintegration. Whether it's Peak Oil, Unsustainable Welfare, Population Overshoot, they all are issues which will not be realistically dealt with.  Our government and population operate in a dream world, devoid of hard truths and hard limits.

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"I think turden got excited and pluralized it, he's a glutton. "
uwApoligist

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Reply with quote  #56 
Some postive news.  White house says it House passed bill cuts $1T in taxes.  
Note: not a CBO scoring, or independent, just what WH believes will happen.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/05/05/ahca-cuts-1-trillion-in-obamacare-taxes.html
spazsdad

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Reply with quote  #57 
Crazy Bernie said thousands will die if the bill makes it out of the senate and is signed
PDad

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Reply with quote  #58 
Quote:
Originally Posted by woody
The MSM, in lockstep with the "resistance" aka the communist leaning DNC is doing a PR pivot. They now don't have to defend an imploding AHCA, that would soon have exchanges with no carriers. They can now dump it's epic failure on the GOP.

I can here the talking points now.

1) The AHCA, (no longer called Obamacare in "newspeak") just needed a few tweaks.

2) Now that the AHCA has been killed by the evil GOP, tens of millions of Americans will die because they wont get any HC.

3) The top 1% of wage earners are getting a tax cut instead of providing HC for 10 million Americans.

AHCA is the GOP plan passed by the House. Obamacare is ACA (PPACA). You can blame Dewey since he used to refer to Obamacare as AHCA.
PDad

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Reply with quote  #59 
Quote:
Originally Posted by keepinitreal
It would increase the taxes paid by middle-class workers on their wages by making the value of employer insurance taxable income. At the same time, it would cut taxes on employer benefit packages valued over $500,000,

It repeals Obamacare's Cadillac Tax and adds something similar down the road (~8 years). An explanation for the new tax is to meet 10-year budget rules that would otherwise require AHCA be temporary with a sunset date (e.g. Bush tax cuts).
keepinitreal

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Reply with quote  #60 
political talk for the same damn tax

and I'm pretty sure you know that that was not my quote.  Did I not post it as an EX: [excerpt]?

__________________
"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
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