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uwApoligist

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Reply with quote  #1 
obamacare is tired and old.  

HFC signed on to revised Healthcare plan.  Let's see if they can help marshal the votes together.

"Freedom Caucus endorses revised ObamaCare repeal-and-replace bill"
http://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/330681-freedom-caucus-endorses-revised-obamacare-repeal-bill

- Still not a full repeal.
- new amendment that allows states to opt-out of certian Ocare restrictions. 

"The MacArthur-Meadows amendment lets states apply for waivers from ObamaCare provisions that ban insurers from charging sick people higher premiums and mandate minimum insurance coverage requirements, as long as the state offers high-risk pools as an alternative."

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DC v Hellar - Landmark Supreme Court case established that "protects an individual right to keep and bear arms", that right was "premised on the private use of arms for activities such as hunting and self-defense, the latter being understood as resistance to either private lawlessness or the depredations of a tyrannical government (or a threat from abroad)." 
uwApoligist

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Reply with quote  #2 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TerpAlum
High risk pools don't work.

What's the point of having insurance if only people who never go to the doctor get to have it?
The point is to spread risk as wide as possible, not limit it.

Remember, if people don't have coverage or go bankrupt trying to pay for things like the birth of a child, the rest of us pay for it anyway. Last I heard we are all born at one point.

OR sick people just don't go and we end up paying a lot more to treat them, when it is cheaper to treat when caught early.

Cheaper to subsidize health premiums than the actual care.

Been through all of this in Maryland, and MD stepped up with state laws. However, if you wait for each state to do it on their own, it will take years while people's healthcare worsens.

I don't think in a modern country some states will go back to having sh=t insurance and others will have the right stuff.

In fact the evil doer in all of this is the insurance company. Overpaid executives, and always gaming the actuarial charts to line their pockets.

Why give no good porch sitters same healthcare has healthy workers.  Let them fall down to indigent care.  Control costs a bit.  They do not need $700 aspirins at the emergency rooms just to feel equal.

No way the system laid out by odummer works out.  30% per year increase on for ever.  No one in the entire chain is watching costs in any way shape or form.   They just pass it on to the taxpayer and the premium payer.  

American worker finds themselves struggling to get in lowest end bronze plans with high deductibles.   They are doing all the paying, and getting none of the benefits. 

Meanwhile porch sitter signs up for much higher plans, gets subsidies, and gets their deductibles covered.

That is why Trump/Republicans won in a land slide. 



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DC v Hellar - Landmark Supreme Court case established that "protects an individual right to keep and bear arms", that right was "premised on the private use of arms for activities such as hunting and self-defense, the latter being understood as resistance to either private lawlessness or the depredations of a tyrannical government (or a threat from abroad)." 
pabar61

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Reply with quote  #3 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TerpAlum
High risk pools don't work.

What's the point of having insurance if only people who never go to the doctor get to have it?
The point is to spread risk as wide as possible, not limit it.

Remember, if people don't have coverage or go bankrupt trying to pay for things like the birth of a child, the rest of us pay for it anyway. Last I heard we are all born at one point.

OR sick people just don't go and we end up paying a lot more to treat them, when it is cheaper to treat when caught early.

Cheaper to subsidize health premiums than the actual care.

Been through all of this in Maryland, and MD stepped up with state laws. However, if you wait for each state to do it on their own, it will take years while people's healthcare worsens.

I don't think in a modern country some states will go back to having sh=t insurance and others will have the right stuff.

In fact the evil doer in all of this is the insurance company. Overpaid executives, and always gaming the actuarial charts to line their pockets.


Except for the children that liberals happily abort.
mikec

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Reply with quote  #4 
it's past time for the UN to be some other country's burden.


The United Nations warned the Trump administration earlier this year that repealing ObamaCare without providing an adequate replacement would be a violation of multiple international laws, according to a new report. 

Though the Trump administration is likely to ignore the U.N. warning, The Washington Post reported the Office of the U.N. High Commission on Human Rights in Geneva sent an "urgent appeal" on Feb 2. 

The Post reported that the confidential, five-page memo cautioned that the repeal of the Affordable Care Act would put the U.S. “at odds with its international obligations.”

The warning was sent to the State Department and reportedly said the U.N. expressed “serious concern” about the prospective loss of health coverage for 30 million people, that in turn could violate “the right to social security of the people in the United States.”

bluedog

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Reply with quote  #5 
Better destroy this move toward a world Government right now...........Whatever it takes, squash it.........

Withdraw and get as far away from the UN as possible...........


mikec

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Reply with quote  #6 
Just read that 21 GOP have announced they are no votes to the new repeal/replace bill.  It only takes 23 to kill it.

edited to add:  this is truly unreal.  I hate it, but the House will deserve it when Pelosi is Speaker in 2 years.
DietCoke

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Reply with quote  #7 
Quote:
Originally Posted by uwApoligist

Why give no good porch sitters same healthcare has healthy workers.  Let them fall down to indigent care.  Control costs a bit.  They do not need $700 aspirins at the emergency rooms just to feel equal.


So should we have 2 (or more) levels of Medicare?  Everyone pays the same, no matter their lot in life.

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"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable," - John F. Kennedy
uwApoligist

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Reply with quote  #8 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DietCoke


So should we have 2 (or more) levels of Medicare?  Everyone pays the same, no matter their lot in life.

Yes we should have 2 levels of health care.  Normal care and Indigent care.  

Normal care is for people that work hard, pay their bills, take care of their children, and help build this country.

Indigent care are for people that sit around all day, drug addicts, people that do not work, people that do not raise their children. 

Consider it a reward for the hard working people.

What do you mean everyone pays the same?  Realty is working family in my area is paying 14-15k per yer year.  

Porch sitter is paying 0.  Not close to 0, exactly 0.  100% subsidized premium, paid by me, through taxes.  They have a deductible, again 100% paid by me, the taxpayer.

That 14k, was about 7k 5 short years ago.  That extra 7-8k in premiums is to pay for all those that are unable to pay. 

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DC v Hellar - Landmark Supreme Court case established that "protects an individual right to keep and bear arms", that right was "premised on the private use of arms for activities such as hunting and self-defense, the latter being understood as resistance to either private lawlessness or the depredations of a tyrannical government (or a threat from abroad)." 
uwApoligist

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Reply with quote  #9 
DC, you have little to worry about on healthcare.  Republican ineptitude, it seems, will guarantee a lock in of the largest socialism package in history.  

No way Ryan survives the summer if this continues.  No matter how many cocktails he has.  

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DC v Hellar - Landmark Supreme Court case established that "protects an individual right to keep and bear arms", that right was "premised on the private use of arms for activities such as hunting and self-defense, the latter being understood as resistance to either private lawlessness or the depredations of a tyrannical government (or a threat from abroad)." 
CoachB25

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Reply with quote  #10 
While I rarely listen to Rush, today I was listening to the station he is on due to severe storms in the area.  He made a great point.  There are so many Republicans that want Obamacare to continue and will not support anything Trump wants.  Why?  Well, again, I was not listening to the whole program and maybe some of you were but I got that they want the program to die on its own so it can't be used against them at all in the upcoming elections.  IMO, that is like waking backwards with your hand out to pick up your paycheck.  You can't look the employer in the eyes.  
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Those mountains in front of you will seem like little hills when you are beyond them and they are in the past!
PDad

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Reply with quote  #11 
Quote:
Originally Posted by CoachB25
While I rarely listen to Rush, today I was listening to the station he is on due to severe storms in the area.  He made a great point.  There are so many Republicans that want Obamacare to continue and will not support anything Trump wants.  Why?  Well, again, I was not listening to the whole program and maybe some of you were but I got that they want the program to die on its own so it can't be used against them at all in the upcoming elections.  IMO, that is like waking backwards with your hand out to pick up your paycheck.  You can't look the employer in the eyes.  

Dems have successfully pinned all responsibility for ACA's future on GOP according to recent polls by Kaiser - http://kff.org/health-reform/report/kaiser-health-tracking-poll-late-april-2017-the-future-of-the-aca-and-health-care-the-budget/.

In addition, a majority (64 percent) of the public say that because President Trump and Republicans in Congress are now in control of the government, they are responsible for any problems with the ACA moving forward. About three in ten (28 percent) say that because President Obama and Democrats in Congress passed the law, they are responsible for any problems with it moving forward.
uwApoligist

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Reply with quote  #12 
Quote:
Originally Posted by PDad

Dems have successfully pinned all responsibility for ACA's future on GOP according to recent polls by Kaiser - http://kff.org/health-reform/report/kaiser-health-tracking-poll-late-april-2017-the-future-of-the-aca-and-health-care-the-budget/.

In addition, a majority (64 percent) of the public say that because President Trump and Republicans in Congress are now in control of the government, they are responsible for any problems with the ACA moving forward. About three in ten (28 percent) say that because President Obama and Democrats in Congress passed the law, they are responsible for any problems with it moving forward.

Although this might be some nice wish to create a sense of pressure on GOP mid liners and HFC crew.  It is just not the case.  If we seen 30% increases again this fail, that is hung around Obama and Dems neck.  

As this election showed. polls often are the tail try to wag the dog.   Anyone claiming Dems don't own this nightmare just does not checkout.

Explaining to Terp might be a waste of time, but what the heck.  The reason a risk pool with 1 person in it is way riskier than a pool with 5000 (like a medium sized company) is that when you exit that 5000 person pool you enter the pool of jobless.  That pool unfortunately contains a lot of drug users and other very high risk.  

Now there is loads of statistical math that the insurers apply to understand how much each of those pools should cost to ensure.  When they ran that math, that jobless pool cost is almost 2.5x what insurers are allowed to charge currently.  That is why the government is having to hit the taxpayers to supply additional money to keep the insurance companies solvent.

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DC v Hellar - Landmark Supreme Court case established that "protects an individual right to keep and bear arms", that right was "premised on the private use of arms for activities such as hunting and self-defense, the latter being understood as resistance to either private lawlessness or the depredations of a tyrannical government (or a threat from abroad)." 
CoachB25

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Reply with quote  #13 
I no longer trust any polls.  As I mentioned last year, we were polled two times.  Each time when we mentioned that we were Conservatives, the pollsters hung up on us.  We were also polled by a State Polling Service.  The questions were so ridiculous that my wife hung up on them.  

The Republicans have to have a clear vision and then the ability to tell it/sell it to Americans.  Isn't that what it really comes down to?

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Those mountains in front of you will seem like little hills when you are beyond them and they are in the past!
PDad

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Reply with quote  #14 
Quote:
Originally Posted by uwApoligist
Although this might be some nice wish to create a sense of pressure on GOP mid liners and HFC crew.  It is just not the case.  If we seen 30% increases again this fail, that is hung around Obama and Dems neck.  

As this election showed. polls often are the tail try to wag the dog.   Anyone claiming Dems don't own this nightmare just does not checkout.

64% passes the smell test given Dems are anxious to shift responsibility for ACA problems and the rest are buying Dems' narrative that ACA can be fixed. We're in the minority holding them responsible for the original sin that can't be fixed.
PDad

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Reply with quote  #15 
Quote:
Originally Posted by CoachB25
The Republicans have to have a clear vision and then the ability to tell it/sell it to Americans.  Isn't that what it really comes down to?

It's an uphill fight given media bias. GOP needs to begin by establishing better metrics than just numbers of insured/uninsured so CBO creates more accurate projections for continuing ACA vs their replacement (eg involuntary/voluntary uninsured, unaffordable deductibles, etc). 
uwApoligist

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Reply with quote  #16 
And it sound like it has gone down in flames a second time.

21 already against, most they can have is 22.  And sounds like they are no where near done getting yes votes.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/gop-losing-votes-on-health-bill-imperiling-its-chances-1493742778

What a wreck.  Does Ryan dare get out the pointer and charts and walk everyone through it?  Or does he just go get him a cocktail at this point?

The ultmate problem is that healthcare is getting defined by MSM right now.  They have number of insured as the only measure.  As long as that remains, the fact that it is going to cost like 40% more every year, and still take taxpayers kicking in to sustain it, will not be taken into account.

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DC v Hellar - Landmark Supreme Court case established that "protects an individual right to keep and bear arms", that right was "premised on the private use of arms for activities such as hunting and self-defense, the latter being understood as resistance to either private lawlessness or the depredations of a tyrannical government (or a threat from abroad)." 
EarlyGrayce

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Reply with quote  #17 
I'm guessing that it's cocktail hour in DC.
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A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
PDad

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Reply with quote  #18 
I like the fact HFC and moderates worked out a win-win compromise based on Conservative principles of empowering states. Biggest problem seems to be MacArthur didn't run it by moderates at the same time Meadows got support from HFC. This generated great optimism which beget Trump trying to jam it through in first 100 days and a lot of publicity, seemingly before moderates were brought up to speed on the particulars. GOP should have kept it under wraps until they had buy-in from both sides and had a PR campaign build public support. Instead, Dems drove their misinformation through MSM and put a lot of pressure on moderates.

That said, only moderates in purple districts in red states should be concerned. Regardless, they should vote for the bill because the Senate will take care of their concerns. 
uwApoligist

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Reply with quote  #19 
Quote:
Originally Posted by PDad
I like the fact HFC and moderates worked out a win-win compromise based on Conservative principles of empowering states. Biggest problem seems to be MacArthur didn't run it by moderates at the same time Meadows got support from HFC. This generated great optimism which beget Trump trying to jam it through in first 100 days and a lot of publicity, seemingly before moderates were brought up to speed on the particulars. GOP should have kept it under wraps until they had buy-in from both sides and had a PR campaign build public support. Instead, Dems drove their misinformation through MSM and put a lot of pressure on moderates.

That said, only moderates in purple districts in red states should be concerned. Regardless, they should vote for the bill because the Senate will take care of their concerns. 

What do we care about those purple districts anymore anyway.  All they can deliver is democratic looking budgets.

As far as PR campaigns, they have the large mouthpiece in the world. Trump and Presidential bully podium.  4ell he was able to get the whole country to 180 on immigration by himself.  You don't think he can't sell something to the American people?  The problem is those moderates and Ryan aren't giving him anything.  Nothing at all. 

So he is constantly in a position of "Oh, well, if this is how it has to be done, then you have to guarantee the votes."  Only to have Ryan come up short time after time. 

The only question in my mind is who we want to replace Ryan.  McCarthy, or look further down the line?   I say we have a real knock down drag out.  Get it going, and the sooner the better.  Nothing else gets done until leadership in the house is replaced.

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DC v Hellar - Landmark Supreme Court case established that "protects an individual right to keep and bear arms", that right was "premised on the private use of arms for activities such as hunting and self-defense, the latter being understood as resistance to either private lawlessness or the depredations of a tyrannical government (or a threat from abroad)." 
PDad

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Reply with quote  #20 
Biggest problem on budget is GOP doesn't have control of the Senate with only 52 members. Dems primarily say GOP has control to make them look bad and it also provides some cover for anything that passes. Everyone else says it out of ignorance.

Added: Trump's mouthpiece hasn't fared well advancing his agenda against Dem fueled MSM. Biggest problem is he doesn't coordinate with partners and pops prematurely.


uwApoligist

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Reply with quote  #21 
Quote:
Originally Posted by PDad
Biggest problem on budget is GOP doesn't have control of the Senate with only 52 members. Dems primarily say GOP has control to make them look bad and it also provides some cover for anything that passes. Everyone else says it out of ignorance.

Dems just fine with 52.  Passed 20T in debt worth of spending.  (waiting for you to go all dewster and ramble about difference between debt and deficit). 

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DC v Hellar - Landmark Supreme Court case established that "protects an individual right to keep and bear arms", that right was "premised on the private use of arms for activities such as hunting and self-defense, the latter being understood as resistance to either private lawlessness or the depredations of a tyrannical government (or a threat from abroad)." 
PDad

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Reply with quote  #22 
Quote:
Originally Posted by uwApoligist
Dems just fine with 52.  Passed 20T in debt worth of spending.  (waiting for you to go all dewster and ramble about difference between debt and deficit). 

Wrong again, DuwAy. GOP obviously shares responsibility for much of that $20T.

In case you missed it, I added the following to my previous post:
"Added: Trump's mouthpiece hasn't fared well advancing his agenda against Dem fueled MSM. Biggest problem is he doesn't coordinate with partners and pops prematurely."
TheNarrator

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Reply with quote  #23 
Good luck PDad in trying to get UDEW to say Trump has been anything but successful in everything he has done.  He has become a bigger shill than the Dewster ever was.

Everyone in the GOP has the sh*t on their hands on this one.
uwApoligist

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Reply with quote  #24 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheNarrator

Everyone in the GOP has the sh*t on their hands on this one.

Agree.

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DC v Hellar - Landmark Supreme Court case established that "protects an individual right to keep and bear arms", that right was "premised on the private use of arms for activities such as hunting and self-defense, the latter being understood as resistance to either private lawlessness or the depredations of a tyrannical government (or a threat from abroad)." 
uwApoligist

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Reply with quote  #25 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TerpAlum
Now they are throwing $8 Billion more to subsidize health care, trying to save what? What is the problem we trying to solve here? Sure ain't solving getting government out of subsidizing healthcare.


nope.  Obummer care is in a death spiral.  Every insurance company involved is insolvent without taxpayer money.  No one, absolutely nobody is controlling costs.  So they spiral completely out of control.  It is sucking everything else in.

You just cannot have a system that gives something so out of control expensive for free to everyone.  There is not enough money in the world to prop up obummer care.

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DC v Hellar - Landmark Supreme Court case established that "protects an individual right to keep and bear arms", that right was "premised on the private use of arms for activities such as hunting and self-defense, the latter being understood as resistance to either private lawlessness or the depredations of a tyrannical government (or a threat from abroad)." 
woody

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Reply with quote  #26 
Start GovCare. Fund something outside of Medicaid, and Medicare to take care of indigent people. These are people that cannot take care of themselves. Those that have preexisting conditions that are working families or individuals should get coverage at the same insurance rates as everyone else buying insurance. If you are a ward of the state, you get HC handouts via GovCare. You aren't paying any taxes or insurance, so you don't get "subsidized", or free insurance. You will not be allowed to live off working people's money. You are a ward of the state, and get the rationed HC you didn't pay for. You, your spouse, your parents don't work, you don't get to rely on everyone else to subsidize your HC through their insurance premiums. You get on a HC plan administered by Democrat Bureaucrats, and hope that congress provides funding for your HC, separate from your free housing, food stamps, utilities, and whatever else you can't provide for yourself or your family, unlike every other working person. What is so hard to understand about that?

Edit:

PS, I should not be required to subsidize stupidity, ignorance, nor indifference. I am however more than willing to help those that are mentally, or truly physically disabled. Everyone else should get off their ass and get to work bettering their own family's financial situation. I can tell you how to become successful, I will even buy you books if you can comprehend what you are reading, but I refuse to do the work for you. That's your job.

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uwApoligist

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Reply with quote  #27 
Republicans think they now have the votes for TrumpCare.  Of course it will be just enough.  With over 100 republicans voting against.  It is being reported that mostly moderate republicans are voting against the law. 

Seems the $8 Billion previously mentioned was money that was already in the budget for OCare, but not specifically assigned.  They are assigning that $8B to provide subsidy for poorer folks with preexisting conditions.  That allowed Upton and Long to come on board.

Let's see if they can get it done today.

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DC v Hellar - Landmark Supreme Court case established that "protects an individual right to keep and bear arms", that right was "premised on the private use of arms for activities such as hunting and self-defense, the latter being understood as resistance to either private lawlessness or the depredations of a tyrannical government (or a threat from abroad)." 
EarlyGrayce

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Reply with quote  #28 
Quote:
Originally Posted by uwApoligist
Republicans think they now have the votes for TrumpCare.  Of course it will be just enough.  With over 100 republicans voting against.  It is being reported that mostly moderate republicans are voting against the law. 

Seems the $8 Billion previously mentioned was money that was already in the budget for OCare, but not specifically assigned.  They are assigning that $8B to provide subsidy for poorer folks with preexisting conditions.  That allowed Upton and Long to come on board.

Let's see if they can get it done today.



Still a total failure IMHO. Bidness as usual. 

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A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
pabar61

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Reply with quote  #29 
They're employing the same tactic as Nancy Pelosi.  None of them really know what's in it.
EarlyGrayce

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Reply with quote  #30 
Quote:
Originally Posted by woody
Start GovCare. Fund something outside of Medicaid, and Medicare to take care of indigent people. These are people that cannot take care of themselves. Those that have preexisting conditions that are working families or individuals should get coverage at the same insurance rates as everyone else buying insurance. If you are a ward of the state, you get HC handouts via GovCare. You aren't paying any taxes or insurance, so you don't get "subsidized", or free insurance. You will not be allowed to live off working people's money. You are a ward of the state, and get the rationed HC you didn't pay for. You, your spouse, your parents don't work, you don't get to rely on everyone else to subsidize your HC through their insurance premiums. You get on a HC plan administered by Democrat Bureaucrats, and hope that congress provides funding for your HC, separate from your free housing, food stamps, utilities, and whatever else you can't provide for yourself or your family, unlike every other working person. What is so hard to understand about that?

Edit:

PS, I should not be required to subsidize stupidity, ignorance, nor indifference. I am however more than willing to help those that are mentally, or truly physically disabled. Everyone else should get off their ass and get to work bettering their own family's financial situation. I can tell you how to become successful, I will even buy you books if you can comprehend what you are reading, but I refuse to do the work for you. That's your job.


Keep bangin that drum, brother. I'm with you.

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A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
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