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mikec

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Reply with quote  #5341 
Anyone still remember this?  Was going to be cancelled, first week in office.  Or not.  I suppose it's not trump's fault either.

BREAKING: U.S. to extend wide sanctions relief for Iran called for under 2015 nuclear deal
Bama_CF

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Reply with quote  #5342 
TRUMP MAKING DEALS WITH CHUCK AND NANCY 

In the last couple weeks, Trump made a deal with Dem leaders and moderate GOP to raise the debt ceiling and now is making a deal with Dems and moderate GOP to allow amnesty for Daca program Dreamers to legally stay in the US. 

Caveat: this does not say anything about his ideology, just like his promises to his base in the campaign say nothing about his ideology. He has none. NONE. He only cares about praise and adulation and winning. If you still think he believes in the same beliefs as the right, you are sadly in denial. 

Back to my point. While Trump has been making deals with his new best buddies Nancy and Chuck and the Dems and moderate GOP, it is fascinating to see the reaction of Trump's most passionate supporters.

True Believers in the Cause - Nationalism, Extreme Immigration Stance - deport all and build a wall, CINO (Christians in name only) issues like pro-life and anti-gay and trans, no regulation of banks, no enforcement of Civil Rights laws, etc. This group includes people like Ann Coulter and Rep Steve King of Iowa and their ilk. They are furious with Trump. They feel raped and pillaged and used and they are mad as hell.

True Unconditional Lovers of Trump -
Others are showing that they will defend Trump and take up for him and blame others NO MATTER WHAT. He is the savior and any failures are because the lame congress and RINO's and Dems and the MSM just won't let him do his thing. uwApoligist is literally the definition of this crowd. It is fascinating to watch and to wonder what it will take for this group to realize he is a fraud. Or is there nothing that would do the trick?  
Bama_CF

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Reply with quote  #5343 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikec
Anyone still remember this?  Was going to be cancelled, first week in office.  Or not.  I suppose it's not trump's fault either.

BREAKING: U.S. to extend wide sanctions relief for Iran called for under 2015 nuclear deal



Given the real and present dangerous situation with North Korea, it would be idiotic to cancel a treaty with Iran in which they have complied and not advanced their nuclear program one bit. Before the masses argue with me, you should know that Mattis, Tillerson, McMaster, and even the nationalist wing agree with me. Only the neo-cons favor cancelling this treaty. 
TheNarrator

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Reply with quote  #5344 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bama_CF



Given the real and present dangerous situation with North Korea, it would be idiotic to cancel a treaty with Iran in which they have complied and not advanced their nuclear program one bit. Before the masses argue with me, you should know that Mattis, Tillerson, McMaster, and even the nationalist wing agree with me. Only the neo-cons favor cancelling this treaty. 


SOURCES??

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TheNarrator

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Reply with quote  #5345 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikec
Anyone still remember this?  Was going to be cancelled, first week in office.  Or not.  I suppose it's not trump's fault either.

BREAKING: U.S. to extend wide sanctions relief for Iran called for under 2015 nuclear deal


It must not have been the "worst deal ever".

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Bama_CF

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Reply with quote  #5346 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheNarrator


SOURCES??



If you are not capable of researching to see proof that the Secretaries of State and Defense and the NSA all are opposed to cancelling the treaty, I'm not going to help you
TheNarrator

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Reply with quote  #5347 
Sources were just for the bolded part about them not advancing their nuclear program one bit.
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PDad

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Reply with quote  #5348 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bama_CF
If you are not capable of researching to see proof that the Secretaries of State and Defense and the NSA all are opposed to cancelling the treaty, I'm not going to help you

True. however the question is whether Iran has fully complied with the agreement (it's not a treaty).
Bama_CF

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Reply with quote  #5349 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheNarrator
Sources were just for the bolded part about them not advancing their nuclear program one bit.



The US and European countries keep tabs with sophisticated intelligence and satellite views. There is no evidence they have done any work with their program since the treaty. Plus, I trust Mattis, Tillerson, McMaster so much more than I do neo-cons and Trump
PDad

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Reply with quote  #5350 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheNarrator
It must not have been the "worst deal ever".

It was, however it's now better to enforce it than to cancel it
Bama_CF

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Reply with quote  #5351 
Quote:
Originally Posted by PDad

True. however the question is whether Iran has fully complied with the agreement (it's not a treaty).



Excuse me. Treaty. There is not published, valid evidence they have not. People who are knowledgeable (and I mean Republican conservatives excluding the neocons) believe the agreement should stay in place. Much bigger fish to fry right now than adding another crisis unnecessarily
pabar61

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Reply with quote  #5352 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bama_CF



Excuse me. Treaty. There is not published, valid evidence they have not. People who are knowledgeable (and I mean Republican conservatives excluding the neocons) believe the agreement should stay in place. Much bigger fish to fry right now than adding another crisis unnecessarily


It's not a treaty which must be ratified by Congress.  Mattis even referred to it as an "imperfect agreement".

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Bama_CF

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Reply with quote  #5353 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pabar61


It's not a treaty which must be ratified by Congress.  Mattis even referred to it as an "imperfect agreement".



Sorry. Typo. I meant to agree with PDad that is was an agreement. Not treaty
Bama_CF

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Reply with quote  #5354 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bama_CF



Excuse me. Agreement -edited. There is not published, valid evidence they have not. People who are knowledgeable (and I mean Republican conservatives excluding the neocons) believe the agreement should stay in place. Much bigger fish to fry right now than adding another crisis unnecessarily
TheNarrator

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Reply with quote  #5355 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bama_CF



The US and European countries keep tabs with sophisticated intelligence and satellite views. There is no evidence they have done any work with their program since the treaty. Plus, I trust Mattis, Tillerson, McMaster so much more than I do neo-cons and Trump


It would've been easier to say I don't have any.

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PDad

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Reply with quote  #5356 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bama_CF
The US and European countries keep tabs with sophisticated intelligence and satellite views. There is no evidence they have done any work with their program since the treaty.

Monitoring is far from perfect, especially since Iran can block/delay inspectors. They didn't pick up new facility reported shortly after last certification - http://www.forbes.com/sites/heshmatalavi/2017/04/21/iran-nuclear-weapons-program-active-despite-jcpoa-opposition-says/#28b682cf1b82

Iran is also circumventing JCPOA via NoKo's program.


Bama_CF

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Reply with quote  #5357 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheNarrator
It would've been easier to say I don't have any.



You are so juvenile. I read all the time. I am aware from such that most credible sources around the world have stated there is no evidence of Iran advancing it's nuclear program since the Agreement. The mere fact that our foreign policy leaders say so and signed a statement saying so is a "Source". Here is another from the International Institute for Strategic Studies. 

You know this to be true. I am aware when you are engaging in repetitive juvenile crap.


http://www.iiss.org/en/iiss%20voices/blogsections/iiss-voices-2017-adeb/july-eb75/three-strikes-against-claims-that-iran-is-violating-the-nuclear-accord-f965
Bama_CF

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Reply with quote  #5358 
Quote:
Originally Posted by PDad

Monitoring is far from perfect, especially since Iran can block/delay inspectors. They didn't pick up new facility reported shortly after last certification - http://www.forbes.com/sites/heshmatalavi/2017/04/21/iran-nuclear-weapons-program-active-despite-jcpoa-opposition-says/#28b682cf1b82

Iran is also circumventing JCPOA via NoKo's program.





-per the national council of resistance to Iran.  It is definitely imperfect, and Iran cannot be trusted. And they are not our friend. We must remain vigilant. But this is working better right now than cancelling it would.  That last part is MY OPINION Narrator, not sourced evidence
PDad

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Reply with quote  #5359 
Saying "there's no evidence" Iran hasn't complied conveniently ignores the fact Iran won't allow inspectors in their military facilities. 

IOW, there's incomplete evidence Iran is fully complying with JCPOA.
Bama_CF

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Reply with quote  #5360 
Quote:
Originally Posted by PDad
Saying "there's no evidence" Iran hasn't complied conveniently ignores the fact Iran won't allow inspectors in their military facilities. 

IOW, there's incomplete evidence Iran is fully complying with JCPOA.



There is never, in any agreement, evidence that a party is "fully complying".  And in fact one or both parties generally do not fully comply. IMO, there has been no valid evidence that they have advanced their program. If, 20 years from now, their nuclear program is completely defunct and we learn they never lifted a finger on it again after the agreement, the right would still not admit they were wrong and not give President Obama one iota of credit. The right is incapable of objectivity when it comes to Obama.
PDad

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Reply with quote  #5361 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bama_CF
-per the national council of resistance to Iran.  It is definitely imperfect, and Iran cannot be trusted. And they are not our friend. We must remain vigilant. But this is working better right now than cancelling it would.  That last part is MY OPINION Narrator, not sourced evidence

Per the article, that group has played important role in revealing Iran's program.

You added the rest to your initial posting and it agrees with what I've posted.
Bama_CF

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Reply with quote  #5362 
Quote:
Originally Posted by PDad

Per the article, that group has played important role in revealing Iran's program.

You added the rest to your initial posting and it agrees with what I've posted.



I think we essentially agree on this topic currently. The only difference is you would never dream of giving a hint of credit to Obama
PDad

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Reply with quote  #5363 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bama_CF
There is never, in any agreement, evidence that a party is "fully complying".  And in fact one or both parties generally do not fully comply. IMO, there has been no valid evidence that they have advanced their program. If, 20 years from now, their nuclear program is completely defunct and we learn they never lifted a finger on it again after the agreement,

Delusional wishful thinking by an Obamaphile. Dollars to donuts, Iran will have nukes in 10 years.
PDad

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Reply with quote  #5364 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bama_CF
I think we essentially agree on this topic currently. The only difference is you would never dream of giving a hint of credit to Obama

No, I opposed the agreement since Iran got everything up front; there are huge monitoring gaps and little leverage to keep them in compliance over its term; and it basically legitimizes whatever they do afterward.
TheNarrator

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Reply with quote  #5365 
Quote:
Originally Posted by PDad
Saying "there's no evidence" Iran hasn't complied conveniently ignores the fact Iran won't allow inspectors in their military facilities. 

IOW, there's incomplete evidence Iran is fully complying with JCPOA.


Quit being juvenile Pdad - dude reads and keeps up on things.

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TheNarrator

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Reply with quote  #5366 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bama_CF



There is never, in any agreement, evidence that a party is "fully complying".  And in fact one or both parties generally do not fully comply. IMO, there has been no valid evidence that they have advanced their program. If, 20 years from now, their nuclear program is completely defunct and we learn they never lifted a finger on it again after the agreement, the right would still not admit they were wrong and not give President Obama one iota of credit. The right is incapable of objectivity when it comes to Obama.


Yet you say they haven't advanced it one bit.

Keep posting - I need to have a good laugh today

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Bama_CF

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Reply with quote  #5367 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheNarrator
Yet you say they haven't advanced it one bit. Keep posting - I need to have a good laugh today



I said there is no evidence they have.  
Bama_CF

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Reply with quote  #5368 
Quote:
Originally Posted by PDad

No, I opposed the agreement since Iran got everything up front; there are huge monitoring gaps and little leverage to keep them in compliance over its term; and it basically legitimizes whatever they do afterward.




Yes, I am aware of your hatred for Obama and your reasons. No need to drivel on with long posts. I already know. 
TheNarrator

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Reply with quote  #5369 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bama_CF



Given the real and present dangerous situation with North Korea, it would be idiotic to cancel a treaty with Iran in which they have complied and not advanced their nuclear program one bit.;

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Bama_CF

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Reply with quote  #5370 
They haven't.  I know the right loves to make Iran the boogey man and especially so since Obama made an agreement with them. But they haven't violated the terms. The United States of America has certified to as much. 

If millions of South Koreans and tens of thousands of Americans who live there get killed by North Korea in the near future -- it will be the "not fit to be president" who "does not have the temperament to be president" and who has "no self control" who will be to blame. The one named Trump.  Iran is not about to endanger the world with nuclear weapons. 

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