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kazoo

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Reply with quote  #61 

Wages are up for low-income workers in large part because their has been growing outrage for years about the crap pay in this country. The "fight for $15" movement started in 2012. America's private sector has screwed workers for 30 years--and worked assiduously to destroy unions, the result being low wages. Look around America, rubes: It's poor. There are discount stores EVERYWHERE. Why? Because Americans are poor, and they're poor because they've been paid badly by employers for a long time. Look at teachers in America--they've had to walk out to get even paltry pay raises, above their lousy salaries, from southern states. Why do foreign companies locate in southern states--because they knew they can pay crap wages in the south: The GOP politicians will be A-OK with it! 

States and cities have taken upon themselves to raise wages while the Republicans in Congress continue to refuse to raise the federal minimum wage--outrageous. Ask Man-Baby Trump what he pays the workers at his golf properties. The answer is peanuts. The Trump company makes visa requests to bring in foreign workers specifically because they'll take lower pay--the height of hypocrisy from a man who otherwise dislikes Latin immigrants. 

From NPR:

"Millions of American workers will see pay raises in the new year due to minimum-wage increases in 20 states and 21 cities.

The federal minimum wage has remained at $7.25 an hour since 2009, but in the years since, 29 states and the District of Columbia have established minimum wages above the federal level.

The wage hikes range from an extra nickel per hour in Alaska to $1-an-hour in Maine, Massachusetts and California for companies with more than 25 employees. The increases will raise pay for 5.3 million workers across the country, according to the nonprofit Economic Policy Institute, giving those workers an estimated $5.4 billion in increased wages over the course of 2019.

Advocates say the trend toward higher minimum wages began in 2012, when the "Fight for $15" national movement began protesting for higher wages for fast food, child care and airline workers, among other businesses. While few have reached that threshold, several state legislatures and city councils have raised wages through phased-in laws, ballot initiatives and by adjusting for inflation."


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uwApoligist

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Reply with quote  #62 
Wages are up because employers are busy and need the workers so they are willing to pay more. 

Amazon and Walmart both pay above the national minimum wage and above the local minimum wages.  This is just a sampling to 2 very large employers.  Most employers are required to at least match these companies or lose employees.

Also slowing the flow of illegal immigrants will naturally right the supply and demand curve, and naturally raise wages. 



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"Tonight, we renew our resolve that America will never be a socialist country.   We are born free and we will stay free. "

Lost_1

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Reply with quote  #63 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fresh
The stock market reacted negatively to the report of Apple's falling earnings. You can make all the excuses you want. We are dependent on global economics, something the orange haze would do well to understand.





A few years ago, Apple made profit, but didn't meet analysts projections. Guess what happened, Apple stock took a drop because of speculation, not the strength of the company. 

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If we are not careful, our colleges will produce a group of close-minded, unscientific, illogical propagandists, consumed with immoral acts. - Dr. Martin Luther King


“Everyone is in favor of free speech. Hardly a day passes without its being extolled, but some people's idea of it is that they are free to say what they like, but if anyone else says anything back, that is an outrage.” Winston S. Churchill


uwApoligist

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Reply with quote  #64 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fresh
The stock market reacted negatively to the report of Apple's falling earnings. You can make all the excuses you want. We are dependent on global economics, something the orange haze would do well to understand.

He understands it.  It is why he warned the Fed to not take another tap at the breaks 2 weeks before they did.

The China economy going down is exactly what Trump predicted would happen.  That their economic strength is unnaturally built up on hardship on the American worker due to their unfair tariffs.  Now that we are crossing that bridge, China is going to have to terms on competing with American workers on a level playing field.  They are not prepared for that.

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"Tonight, we renew our resolve that America will never be a socialist country.   We are born free and we will stay free. "

Fresh

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Reply with quote  #65 
Stock market down another 500 points. Apple revelation appears to be the prime factor as many feel it's a harbinger of things to come. It's becoming a bad trend after years of growth with Obama. trump crowed over advances he got from the strengthening economy he inherited from Obama.........will he take responsibility, or continue to blame it on a 1/4 point raise in the prime? I'm going for blame it on somebody else. Just a wild guess.
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The hard right is certainly passionate and emotional about their causes. But in the end, devoid of factual evidence, they are, as President Obama so wisely and succinctly put it, just saying stuff. 
TheNarrator

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Reply with quote  #66 
Kazoo - it you can't understand why a minimum wage is actually a bad thing, I really can't help you.
Fresh

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Reply with quote  #67 
You help Kazoo? That's rich.
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The hard right is certainly passionate and emotional about their causes. But in the end, devoid of factual evidence, they are, as President Obama so wisely and succinctly put it, just saying stuff. 
TheNarrator

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Reply with quote  #68 
I'm not going to waste my time explaining things to someone that is incapable of understanding them.

You've been told that a time or two.
uwApoligist

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Reply with quote  #69 
Kaploo believes the government is the reason people get paid.   Not customers, goods, services, employees and markets.   

I just don't see a path to fix that.

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"Tonight, we renew our resolve that America will never be a socialist country.   We are born free and we will stay free. "

kazoo

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Reply with quote  #70 
Quote:
Originally Posted by uwApoligist
Kaploo believes the government is the reason people get paid.   Not customers, goods, services, employees and markets.   

I just don't see a path to fix that.


Do I believe that--or is this you just spouting nonsense? I believe that the private sector should pay workers fairly for their...work. That hasn't happened for 30 years. I don't believe that owners like the Walton family of Wal-Mart should be billionaires many times over while their employees, on whom the company was /really/ built, have to put out boxes for Christmas donations because their pay is so bad. Nobody should be making $8/9/10 an hour in 2018. If you can't pay employees a decent, living wage, don't open a company. And it's not just crap pay; companies over the last 30 years essentially stopped subsidizing health-care benefits for employees--which has meant even more hardship. So not only did wages and salaries essentially not go up for many years, employees have had to shell out large sums for health insurance, which in turn is why so many Americans don't even have health insurance. They can't afford it!

The problem of course is that the low-paying service industry has come to dominate our economy after the private sector sent all of its better-paying manufacturing jobs to low-wage countries. It's a fact that the private sector has badly stiffed workers since the mid-1980s when CEOs and executives began to focus all their attention on stock price and short-term earnings--and how to rake in huge bonuses for themselves. Income inequality in America has skyrocketed over the last 30 years. Crony capitalism...vulture capitalism. The rich getting richer...and the workers shopping at Dollar Stores and Wal-Mart. Our free-enterprise system is in theory a good thing but it's been corrupted by greedy corporate executives and their political enablers in the GOP--fact. The country has become a bigger version of the south, where crony capitalism has flourished for decades--this is why southern states are the poorest in America.

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kazoo

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Reply with quote  #71 
Quote:
Originally Posted by uwApoligist

He understands it.  It is why he warned the Fed to not take another tap at the breaks 2 weeks before they did.

The China economy going down is exactly what Trump predicted would happen.  That their economic strength is unnaturally built up on hardship on the American worker due to their unfair tariffs.  Now that we are crossing that bridge, China is going to have to terms on competing with American workers on a level playing field.  They are not prepared for that.


China's economy grew at roughly 10 percent a year for more than 20 years. It did so in large measure because its manufacturing sector exploded, employing hundreds of millions of formerly impoverished workers who, despite making comparatively low wages compared to workers in the west, have seen their incomes rise dramatically over time, creating a consumer class in China. Much of the manufacturing boom was sparked by foreign companies moving their production to China. That's what has harmed U.S. workers more than anything. 

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Fresh

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Reply with quote  #72 
There are antitrust laws for a reason. Big business can't be trusted to pay a fair wage. They will pay the absolute lowest wage they can get away with. I put WalMart on the welfare tit. Since many of their full time workers don't make enough to support their families, they are forced to seek public assistance. This allows them to continually pay artificially low wages. Unskilled labor is the one section of this country that has little power over big business. Millions work tirelessly to support their families, with little chance for improving their future. Some are low iq, some have made poor choices and some just don't have anywhere else to work. Minimum wages need to be raised. 
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The hard right is certainly passionate and emotional about their causes. But in the end, devoid of factual evidence, they are, as President Obama so wisely and succinctly put it, just saying stuff. 
uwApoligist

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Reply with quote  #73 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fresh
There are antitrust laws for a reason. Big business can't be trusted to pay a fair wage.

You are an idiot.  Anti-trust has nothing to do with wages.  It is only about effect on the marketplace.

Actually it is probably quite to the contrary.  Those that were lucky enough to work at a company that values their work output and has becoming close to being a monopoly generally pays those workers outrageous sums of money.  Millions per year.  Don't believe it, I will take you to my close friends large tech company retirement reunion.  Said tech company was sued for being monopoly.  




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"Tonight, we renew our resolve that America will never be a socialist country.   We are born free and we will stay free. "

TheNarrator

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Reply with quote  #74 
Trying to explain market based economics to those with the cognitive abilities of fresh and kazoo is a fools errand.
uwApoligist

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Reply with quote  #75 
Government is only able to impact wages in very small amounts, only to what that market will already bear.  If it ever tries to raise wages above what the market will bear, you will see catastrophic collapse.  

If government forced high wage areas are so great why are they:
- the highest in crime
- have the most homeless problems.
?

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"Tonight, we renew our resolve that America will never be a socialist country.   We are born free and we will stay free. "

Fresh

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Reply with quote  #76 
Big business will resort to whatever means it can to increase the bottom line. Squeeze out mom and pop businesses, force land owners to sell at bargain basement price, pay substandard wages........anything. At some point, there has to be a moral limit to what they can do. How many homes does it take to make a CEO happy? 
__________________
The hard right is certainly passionate and emotional about their causes. But in the end, devoid of factual evidence, they are, as President Obama so wisely and succinctly put it, just saying stuff. 
uwApoligist

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Posts: 18,461
Reply with quote  #77 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheNarrator
Trying to explain market based economics to those with the cognitive abilities of fresh and kazoo is a fools errand.

Unfortunately for them they live in a globally driven market.  That has way more to say with what they do, when they do it, then any government. 

Unless, of course, you are on the government handout.  In this case, nevermind, you can ignore any and all, just wait for your check. 

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"Tonight, we renew our resolve that America will never be a socialist country.   We are born free and we will stay free. "

Fresh

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Reply with quote  #78 
Never took a government check in my life. Have always paid my own way. Just now being able to enjoy some of the benefits of frugal living. I just don't wish to crush those that are less fortunate. It's easy to single out the few that abuse the system. It's the rightie way. Portray the extreme as the norm. Most welfare recipients need it and would do otherwise if possible. It ain't exactly living in luxury. 
__________________
The hard right is certainly passionate and emotional about their causes. But in the end, devoid of factual evidence, they are, as President Obama so wisely and succinctly put it, just saying stuff. 
uwApoligist

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Posts: 18,461
Reply with quote  #79 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fresh
Big business will resort to whatever means it can to increase the bottom line. Squeeze out mom and pop businesses, force land owners to sell at bargain basement price, pay substandard wages........anything. At some point, there has to be a moral limit to what they can do. How many homes does it take to make a CEO happy? 

Reality is that to make a business it takes capital.  

Walton is a great example.  You had a clerk that worked at, at the time, small retailer named J. C. Penny.  He went out and bought a Ben Franklin store.  Realized Ben Franklin's chain management was making a huge mistake as Ben Franklin abandoned the Rural marketplace to run off and compete in the cities.  Left Ben Franklin to open his own store.  

During that great ride risked his entire livelihood more than 5 times.  

If all you are doing is waking up and stocking a shelf, you should expect your earnings potential to remain limited. It is that simple. 

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"Tonight, we renew our resolve that America will never be a socialist country.   We are born free and we will stay free. "

Fresh

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Reply with quote  #80 
No it isn't. It is inherent upon those that have managerial skills and an entrepreneurial spirit to provide at least a living wage for these workers. As Obama said, you didn't build this society, but they take it's benefits, with no feeling of responsibility to give back. They are grossly rewarded for their efforts, losing 20 million a year from their 100 million salaries just breaks my heart. 
__________________
The hard right is certainly passionate and emotional about their causes. But in the end, devoid of factual evidence, they are, as President Obama so wisely and succinctly put it, just saying stuff. 
TheNarrator

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Reply with quote  #81 
You are free to give to the less fortunate as much as you want, just don't mandate what others must do.
uwApoligist

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Reply with quote  #82 
Obama's you didn't build this is actually a socialist mantra.  Meaning the state owns it.  it is not a feeling.  if you don't give them what they demand they will come and take it.

We are a market economy driven by capital.  If you have the capital to risk, then you did indeed build that.  It is way harder than you are imagining.   

I have been key employee in several startups.  Trust me, the guy that is truly willing to put his house up on mortgage, put his existing business up on mortgage, to take that risk, he is definitely the person that built it.  Even as an often early stage creator of the company, I will get fractions, as I choose to look for jobs that contain some level of pay.  I am just not in a risk position to go selling some of my hard won stock money, or take a loan on my property to fund a company.  As a result, even though I may initiate the idea, or be a main founder, I still give up a lot of the main capital position to that guy that is willing to lay out real capital at great risk to build a company.





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"Tonight, we renew our resolve that America will never be a socialist country.   We are born free and we will stay free. "

Will_I_Wynn

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Reply with quote  #83 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheNarrator
You are free to give to the less fortunate as much as you want, just don't mandate what others must do.


As soon as your side (the Right) agreed the elderly, sick, and injured, would be cared for using tax dollars rather than left to die, that decision was made.  In order to avoid using my money to take care of those who fail to save for their own well being down the road, I support mandating money be set aside for health, retirement, and injury.  Btw, I agree with the policy of not allowing people to die so I support forcing others to do what's necessary in order to avoid using my assets.  If you're one who supports looking the other way, then you are on sound ground to be against mandates.  However, few in our society seem to favor that position.


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#CheckThePresidency 

The best thing President Trump has done to date is anger Sen McCain into voting thumbs down on the repeal of Obamacare.

Who knew that giving polling data to a Russian (if confirmed) was legal activity? 


uwApoligist

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Posts: 18,461
Reply with quote  #84 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheNarrator
You are free to give to the less fortunate as much as you want, just don't mandate what others must do.

People on the right, of course, are more than happy to help take care of their family first and foremost.  Then as dollars and resources are available helping the truly indigent get a leg up has always been important.

It is wasting all that money over and over,  millions upon millions, even billions on people that perfectly capable of working.  Or on drug addicts that have a purposely chosen a life of desperation.   Why reward them with our hard earned labors?

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"Tonight, we renew our resolve that America will never be a socialist country.   We are born free and we will stay free. "

TheNarrator

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Reply with quote  #85 
Anyone is allowed to give as much as they want to the IRS in order to increase government revenue.  Why do dems not give more and try to tell everyone how much they should give?
uwApoligist

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Reply with quote  #86 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheNarrator
Anyone is allowed to give as much as they want to the IRS in order to increase government revenue.  Why do dems not give more and try to tell everyone how much they should give?

I think it is quite easier to be 'giving' with Other Peoples Money.  At least I find this to be true.

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"Tonight, we renew our resolve that America will never be a socialist country.   We are born free and we will stay free. "

Fresh

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Reply with quote  #87 
The government will tell you what money is yours. Once the government has it, it's not yours anymore. They may then do what they think is right. If you don't like it, you could always move. 
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The hard right is certainly passionate and emotional about their causes. But in the end, devoid of factual evidence, they are, as President Obama so wisely and succinctly put it, just saying stuff. 
EarlyGrayce

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Posts: 7,503
Reply with quote  #88 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fresh
The government will tell you what money is yours. Once the government has it, it's not yours anymore. They may then do what they think is right. If you don't like it, you could always move. 




You are insane in the membrane.

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"Ignorance is not admissible as evidence, it just means that you are ignorant"
keepinitreal

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Reply with quote  #89 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fresh
The government will tell you what money is yours. 


and you're proud of that?

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Shut up doofus. Not talking to you. 
 
TheNarrator

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Reply with quote  #90 
He’s just not smart enough to get the point. It’s not his fault.
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