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EarlyGrayce

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Reply with quote  #61 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pabar61
Trump's strategy on these tariffs is a gamble.  There's no guarantee that this is going to work out well for us.




Agreed, total gamble, unpredictable results forthcoming. Trump's erratic day-to-day behavior increases the uncertainty. Honestly, I'm not sure why the NT boys keep insisting that no one in here is questioning trump's decision making or sanity. Guess it makes their pup tent look smaller. Anyway, with that said, it looks this way to me:

1-Join nevertrump and do nothing, leaving the trade deficit intact. Embrace the "it's been tried before, didn't work then" theory. Accept the notion that because we are America, we for some reason(s) have to allow this trade deficit in order to do business. Or...
2-Say go for it, consider the possibility that prior admins were wrong, that perhaps due to the brave new trump world, different approach may yield different results. Go into it knowing it will cause some pain, it may fail, but go into it knowing that the current trade deficit is unacceptable and worth the pain to cut it way back. Decide that maybe we don't have to live with it.
 

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pabar61

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Reply with quote  #62 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikec


a statement like that, while true, will get you sent to the corner here in trumpland.


At least those of us on the right can have honest differences.

Which makes me think, have we ever seen two lefties in this forum disagree?  I don't think it's ever happened even once.

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EarlyGrayce

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Reply with quote  #63 
This sounds positive. Don't know any details.


"British industrialist Sanjeev Gupta’s GFG Industrials on Monday reopened a shuttered South Carolina steel plant in a move that will allow his U.K.-based firm to circumvent the Trump administration’s 25% tariffs on steel imports.

Liberty Steel, a London-based company owned by Gupta’s group, held a relaunch ceremony at Georgetown Steel Mill on Monday. The mill originally closed in 2015 and was acquired by Liberty House in 2017, the Myrtle Beach Sun Newsreported.

Liberty Steel said the facility would employ about 125 workers at launch and more than 300 workers in the “medium term,” according to a press release. GFG Alliance has vowed to invest more than $5 billion in the U.S. within the next few years.

“This is a historic moment in the story of Liberty Steel and GFG,” Gupta said at the ceremony, according to a press release. “It marks our first step into the American market and is as much a milestone for us in the USA as the restart of Liberty Steel Newport after a similar shutdown period was in the UK. That triggered a cascade of major acquisitions, investments and turnaround successes for GFG in the UK. I very much hope and expect that a similar journey has started today for our family in the USA.”


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uwApoligist

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Reply with quote  #64 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheNarrator
They rarely, if ever, have worked.

If BO had done this conservatives would have been all over him.

BO would have come at this from absolute weakness.

There are plenty of pitfalls for Trump as well, and certainly not a guarantee.   I question taking on China, EU, China and Mexico all at the same time, instead of going one by one.  Each individual action makes some sense.  You can justify EU because of car tariff imbalance, Canada because of the milk products tariff imbalance, and we all know how far out there China is.  

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mikec

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Reply with quote  #65 
Quote:
Originally Posted by EarlyGrayce




Agreed, total gamble, unpredictable results forthcoming. Trump's erratic day-to-day behavior increases the uncertainty. Honestly, I'm not sure why the NT boys keep insisting that no one in here is questioning trump's decision making or sanity. Guess it makes their pup tent look smaller. Anyway, with that said, it looks this way to me:

1-Join nevertrump and do nothing, leaving the trade deficit intact. Embrace the "it's been tried before, didn't work then" theory. Accept the notion that because we are America, we for some reason(s) have to allow this trade deficit in order to do business. Or...
2-Say go for it, consider the possibility that prior admins were wrong, that perhaps due to the brave new trump world, different approach may yield different results. Go into it knowing it will cause some pain, it may fail, but go into it knowing that the current trade deficit is unacceptable and worth the pain to cut it way back. Decide that maybe we don't have to live with it.
 


so, you think we will hit an equilibrium where we export the exact same value of goods that we import?
EarlyGrayce

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Reply with quote  #66 
Good question. I'm not expert enough on the full economic ramifications of net zero, but I do think that our 2017 increase of $64 Billion, taking us to a 2017 deficit of $568 Billion, is very bad for us. I'd prefer we swing net positive, then monitor the ramifications of that.
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woody

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Reply with quote  #67 
I would gladly pay 10-20% for a product manufactured in the USA. Not assembled in the USA with foreign made components, but actually built with all American parts. I know this is decades off, but possible. It is in our own nations best interests to become producers of our own products. Why let foreign nations dump government subsidized products on our shores with impunity? The LED lighting and solar panel market is dominated by China. If GE, and other lighting manufactures would have had a level playing field via fair and equal trade, we would lead the market with our technology and intellectual property that was handed to China by defecting US corporations, and some that was outright stolen by China. When you set up shop in China, you do so by giving over rights to both intellectual and proprietary property owned by your company. 
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keepinitreal

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Reply with quote  #68 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pabar61


At least those of us on the right can have honest differences.

Which makes me think, have we ever seen two lefties in this forum disagree?  I don't think it's ever happened even once.


#LOCKSTEP

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uwApoligist

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Reply with quote  #69 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikec


so, you think we will hit an equilibrium where we export the exact same value of goods that we import?

Nope.  Not even the goal.  Not sure why Trump keeps saying that.  I believe he is purposely over simplifying.  The point is what I copied from the New York times.  

Based on our very strong economic growth, on the fact that Europe has slowed a lot, and Canada is showing some slowing, and based on the fact that the trade deficit we give to those countries, it is just not possible for Canada or Europe to win. 

That does not necessarily guarantee that America wins.

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uwApoligist

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Reply with quote  #70 
BTW: Levin was laying out the case tonight on why the tariffs are net-net bad.  The crux of his argument is that every country, the US, Canada, Europeans, Mexico and China all subsidize their steel industries, and they have for 40 years. 

He also said 25% tariff is the same as taxing the steel a 25% federal tax. 

Let see how it goes. 

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woody

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Reply with quote  #71 
As goes XOM so does the USA. I like the barrels per day output, and the current 4% dividend reinvestment plan. Life is good as a decadent capitalist.
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TheNarrator

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Reply with quote  #72 
Trump has jumped the shark with Harley Davidson.
pabar61

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Reply with quote  #73 
Trump is dead wrong on this tariff issue.  Not every issue is a nail.
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uwApoligist

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Reply with quote  #74 
The EU attacking Wisconsin for political points is not going to win the day. 

He is not wrong yet.  Lots of time on the clock.  There remains several outs. In the end it appears he wants a strong negotiating position on trade and is willing to fight for that position.  That can leave him a lot of ground to work with.  


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TheNarrator

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Reply with quote  #75 
EU attacking them is one thing, the President attacking an American company for doing what is best for them is probably a first.

Not a good look.
Lost_1

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Reply with quote  #76 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheNarrator
EU attacking them is one thing, the President attacking an American company for doing what is best for them is probably a first.

Not a good look.



Well, Obama did sue Boeing.....

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uwApoligist

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Reply with quote  #77 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheNarrator
EU attacking them is one thing, the President attacking an American company for doing what is best for them is probably a first.

Not a good look.

They could have waited 1 day to scurry of the ship.  That is fine.  They should go do what they gotta do.  I am sure that is what is best for them.

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TheNarrator

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Reply with quote  #78 
The President shouldn’t be saying he is going to tax them like they have never seen.

Amateur hour.
uwApoligist

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Reply with quote  #79 
"A Harley-Davidson should never be built in another country-never! Their employees and customers are already very angry at them. If they move, watch, it will be the beginning of the end - they surrendered, they quit! The Aura will be gone and they will be taxed like never before!"

People pay thousands extra in premium pricing to get a Harley built in the USA.  Not sure why Harley would want to throw that prestige away so quickly.   Seems knee jerk.  Management seemed like they had a lot of other options.  Ride it out a bit, see how things play out.  Call the president and ask for some relief. 

The typical American Harley customer base is not one to back Europe in a trade dispute.   Harley is already closing factories and moving work to Thailand.   No one I know would ever buy a Harley built in Thailand or Europe.



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EarlyGrayce

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Reply with quote  #80 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheNarrator
EU attacking them is one thing, the President attacking an American company for doing what is best for them is probably a first.

Not a good look.



Agreed, trump went over the top again. He needs to figure out that sometimes, Less is More.

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TheNarrator

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Reply with quote  #81 
This is not a Harley issue Stan.

Your dichotomy on this issue is tiring.
kazoo

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Reply with quote  #82 

Ha, here's the CEO of Harley-Davidson talking about Trump today. Yea, it did make my day....

"Harley Davidson CEO Matthew S Levatich says: "Our decision to move some of our operations is 100% based on President Trumps tariffs. Mr. Trump knows nothing about economics and even less about trade. The man is a moron."

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uwApoligist

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Reply with quote  #83 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheNarrator
This is not a Harley issue Stan.

Your dichotomy on this issue is tiring.

Well Clifford. We are going to just have to wait and see how it plays out.  Regardless of how tired you get.

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uwApoligist

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Reply with quote  #84 
Oh.  And Drumpf!!
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uwApoligist

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Reply with quote  #85 
https://chiefexecutive.net/harley-davidson-ceo-matt-levatich-trumps-target-du-jour/
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mikec

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Reply with quote  #86 
I thought they were going to build EU bikes in the EU to void the tariffs.  American bikes will be built in America still.

uwApoligist

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Reply with quote  #87 
EU wants American bikes as well.  They are buying the mystique the lifestyle.  People pay a premium for that.   No one will view non American made as true Harley's.  They may over time, but it will take a ton of marketing.  They have spent 50 years, since they bought the company back from AMF telling everyone they are unique, they are Harley, they are Americana.  

Dumping that makes them just another bike, and one that is super expensive for what you get. 



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uwApoligist

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Reply with quote  #88 
Anyway, nothing can be done now, it is playing out how it is playing out.  
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TheNarrator

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Reply with quote  #89 
If the GOP lose seats in the house in WI and across the Midwest, will that be your response?
EarlyGrayce

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Reply with quote  #90 
A Dewpothetical.
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