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Dewey

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Reply with quote  #121 
PDad - Understanding you wouldn't push for, support, or sign a bill, as President, which would allow private businesses to refuse service to anyone, I can finally ask my follow-up question.  Would you support or sign a bill that had the ultimate effect of allowing a party equipment rental business to refuse renting tables and chairs to a gay couple for a backyard wedding?
PDad

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Reply with quote  #122 
Federal law currently allows them to refuse service to gay couples. I wouldn't support a bill that completely negated the local laws, however I would support one that struck a fair balance.
Dewey

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Reply with quote  #123 
You're dodging but I'll try one other way.  In your own personal opinion, should this party rental company have a legal right to refuse service to this gay couple or not?  Would you vote to give them that right or vote against?  Everyone knows what I'm getting at but few are willing to say it clearly.  Do you have a personal problem with this couple being denied service or not?  Should this act of discrimination, (or use a word you find more appropriate), be allowed in the US?
PDad

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Reply with quote  #124 
Customers should be mindful that forcing their way with vendors doesn't guarantee the end result they want. They may be able to get some form of initial compliance, however the vendor still holds the cards in determining what is delivered in the end. I liken it to the well-known pitfalls of pissing off your server in a restaurant.
keepinitreal

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Reply with quote  #125 
Quote:
Originally Posted by PDad
Customers should be mindful that forcing their way with vendors doesn't guarantee the end result they want. They may be able to get some form of initial compliance, however the vendor still holds the cards in determining what is delivered in the end. I liken it to the well-known pitfalls of pissing off your server in a restaurant.


I've often thought that but didn't want to preach common sense

__________________
"Getting your motor revved about taking our guns is going to be what undoes your efforts."

"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
PDad

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Reply with quote  #126 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewey
You're dodging but I'll try one other way.  In your own personal opinion, should this party rental company have a legal right to refuse service to this gay couple or not?  Would you vote to give them that right or vote against?  Everyone knows what I'm getting at but few are willing to say it clearly.  Do you have a personal problem with this couple being denied service or not?  Should this act of discrimination, (or use a word you find more appropriate), be allowed in the US?

I didn't dodge your question. In fact, my answer went beyond what you asked. You should be more respectful if you want me to respond.

You've now asked a confusing barrage of questions that don't make sense given current laws and how laws operate. Perhaps you should help everyone out by figuring out the right question to ask. Again, disrespectful.

I said I wouldn't support a federal law that negated the local laws. That part is clear.

I believe some of the local laws and/or their enforcement have gone too far, which is why I said I'd be in favor of a law that struck a balance for both sides. I suspect this is the part that bothers you. Too bad.

I think party rental companies are generally unaware of the sexual orientation of the couple and unknowingly rent to gay couples. If the couple purposely makes a big deal out of being gay to offend the business owner, the business owner should be able to refuse them for being jerks. There needs to be some common sense because sexual orientation is not something that is overtly obvious like race or gender.
Dewey

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Reply with quote  #127 
Thanks.  Still think you're making this more difficult than need be.  If I were at a sports bar with a friend and asked, "Hey do you think party rental companies should have the right to refuse renting wedding equipment to gay couples?", he'd say "sure" or "no way".  He wouldn't go into all this talk about laws, balance, etc.  But I thank you for answering.

Edit:  I'm guessing if a baker can figure out the sexual orientation of the wedding couple, the party rental business can too.
keepinitreal

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Reply with quote  #128 
First thing I would say is what is gramps doing in the sports bar, silly wabbit
__________________
"Getting your motor revved about taking our guns is going to be what undoes your efforts."

"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
PDad

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Posts: 4,057
Reply with quote  #129 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewey
Thanks.  Still think you're making this more difficult than need be.  If I were at a sports bar with a friend and asked, "Hey do you think party rental companies should have the right to refuse renting wedding equipment to gay couples?", he'd say "sure" or "no way".  He wouldn't go into all this talk about laws, balance, etc. (big difference between a casual conversation and answering your question on here) But I thank you for answering.

Edit:  I'm guessing if a baker can figure out the sexual orientation of the wedding couple, the party rental business can too.

"Figure out" sounds like actively seeking the info. Really, paranoid much? It can be obvious for a baker based on the decorations ordered (e.g. 2 grooms). The party rental business may not even know it's for a wedding.
keepinitreal

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Reply with quote  #130 
Lol think dewy has a list of 15 questions for his buddies when he meets up with them on Taco Tuesday. "Fill these out here fellas, before we proceed please".
__________________
"Getting your motor revved about taking our guns is going to be what undoes your efforts."

"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
woody

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Posts: 10,561
Reply with quote  #131 
Heh Heh. Geriatric friend complains, I left my reading glasses in the car. Hey my beer is getting hot, and my fake Mexican taco in a hard shell is getting cold. Waitress where are my Frijoles? I need my fiber.
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Ignorance is forgivable, and correctable with proper study. Stupidity is a way of life.


keepinitreal

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Posts: 29,183
Reply with quote  #132 
Can't stop laughing
__________________
"Getting your motor revved about taking our guns is going to be what undoes your efforts."

"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
Dewey

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Posts: 24,419
Reply with quote  #133 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewey
Thanks.  Still think you're making this more difficult than need be.  If I were at a sports bar with a friend and asked, "Hey do you think party rental companies should have the right to refuse renting wedding equipment to gay couples?", he'd say "sure" or "no way".  He wouldn't go into all this talk about laws, balance, etc.  But I thank you for answering.


PDad says, (big difference between a casual conversation and answering your question on here)


PDad - There's the difference I'm unable to understand.  Probably explains why many of my questions are avoided so often.  Unless you're a politician trying to spin a position so voters can't tell precisely where you stand, seems a simple answer should be no problem.  I'll trust readers are perfectly capable of reading through the fog. 

No spin from me.  I'll say it straight out.  Elect a Republican and prepare for laws which allow businesses to discriminate against gay people, or anyone as some have suggested, as well as the daily protests and controversy that will accompany them.  It's not what I want for this Country and I hope it's not what voters want.
pabar61

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Posts: 13,138
Reply with quote  #134 
Dewey - how come when Bush was president there was no push to discriminate against gays?  You say that if a Republican is elected we should prepare for laws which allow businesses to discriminate against gay people.  It didn't happen during the Bush administration.  I'm not aware that any Republican candidate has even discussed the remote possibility of this happening.  During the time when Republicans have held both houses of Congress, there has been no push for this.

The only push as it pertains to gays is coming from the gay community.  They have already held a financial gun to the heads of bakers.  

Your entire premise has no basis in fact.

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Will I Wynn is a poster who used to go by the name of Dewey.  He used to criticize people who did that.

"Once you open your eyes, it's impossible to be a Democrat." - CJ Pearson
Dewey

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Reply with quote  #135 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pabar61
Dewey - how come when Bush was president there was no push to discriminate against gays? These aren't Bush Republicans.  These are new Republicans who are angry that we don't have laws allowing business to refuse service to anyone, along with other laws. You say that if a Republican is elected we should prepare for laws which allow businesses to discriminate against gay people.  I should have also said we should prepare for the pain the gay community will be forced to endure.  It didn't happen during the Bush administration.  I'm not aware that any Republican candidate has even discussed the remote possibility of this happening.  They're not going to openly say any such thing, like some would in a casual conversation, as PDad just explained.  Why else would anyone say a business should have a right to refuse service to anyone?  Some people on the Right believe freedom gives us the right to discriminate.  During the time when Republicans have held both houses of Congress, there has been no push for this. Again, those are Republicans of old.

The only push as it pertains to gays is coming from the gay community.  They have already held a financial gun to the heads of bakers. While I have no doubt there are gay couples who want to expose and stop this practice in its tracks, I think most gay people just want to be treated like everyone else. 

Your entire premise has no basis in fact.  I think I have clearly made my case and I at least gave many here the opportunity to say it straight.  All they had to do was say they're against allowing businesses the right to deny service to gay people.  When somebody is unable to make such statement directly, those listening had better understand what it means. 
PDad

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Reply with quote  #136 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewey
PDad - There's the difference I'm unable to understand.  Probably explains why many of my questions are avoided so often. Unless you're a politician trying to spin a position so voters can't tell precisely where you stand, seems a simple answer should be no problem.  I'll trust readers are perfectly capable of reading through the fog. 

This paragraph sums you up very well - unable to understand and/or admit the truth. The readers understand why people are reluctant to answer your questions. Here are some of the many reasons.

1. Dewey is unable to understand.

2. Dewey misrepresents answers given in his posts.

3. Dewey forgets answers given and pesters people to repeat their answers.

4. Dewey tries to constrain other's answers to simple yes/no and won't do it himself. One of his infamous double-standards.

5. Dewey doesn't really consider our answers. If it isn't what he's trying to elicit, he asks seemingly endless follow-up questions with various hypothetical situations in hopes of getting the answer he wants. It is very rude and disrespectful.

Dewey's overt proselytizing separates him from every other person on here. 
keepinitreal

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Posts: 29,183
Reply with quote  #137 
Pretty good Pdad it took you less than 2 years to figure out what others took 5+ years to clarify. We were so busy talking softball for 3 or 4 years, we didn't notice what a full fledged liberal we had. It went unnoticed until curious george. Dewy's sole purpose is to tie people into knots and keep them off the scent.
__________________
"Getting your motor revved about taking our guns is going to be what undoes your efforts."

"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
pabar61

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Posts: 13,138
Reply with quote  #138 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewey


You still have not provided one shred of evidence that there's any movement afoot in the Republican Party to cause gays to worry about their rights.

I could just as easily say that electing Hillary is the first step toward institutionalizing Sharia Law in this country.  That statement is supported by the same evidence as your insistence that electing Republicans will result in gays losing rights.

"These are new Republicans who are angry that we don't have laws allowing business to refuse service to anyone, along with other laws."  Who?

Like I said, your entire premise is without merit.  It is simply something you have said - nothing more.

__________________
Will I Wynn is a poster who used to go by the name of Dewey.  He used to criticize people who did that.

"Once you open your eyes, it's impossible to be a Democrat." - CJ Pearson
PDad

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Reply with quote  #139 
KIR, it only took me a couple of months because Dewey was in full mode last year. I expect his activity evolved over time. How long do you think he's been like he is now? 
Dewey

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Reply with quote  #140 
PDad - Criticize me all you want but my question remains the same...

    Should a party rental business be allowed the right to refuse service to a gay couple having a backyard wedding ceremony and reception?

I believe if one cannot answer no to this simple and straightforward question, then readers are free to come to their own conclusions.  I have come to my own conclusion, but I didn't want to until I at least asked the question first.  Btw, you left one thing off your list.  Why is this answer different in a casual conversation?
TylerDurden

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Reply with quote  #141 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pabar61
"These are new Republicans who are angry that we don't have laws allowing business to refuse service to anyone, along with other laws."  Who?


I believe he is speaking of me - and allow me to clarify my answer.

I am a free-market person.  I believe a privately owned business has the right to refuse service to anyone, and that the market will punish those who do and will support those who don't.  If my favorite coffee shop refused to serve gays or African-Americans, the shop would soon go out of business as market pressure would force them to either serve them, or lose many loyal customers like myself.  It is my belief, and I stand my it.  That does not make me anti-gay or anti-black, just my opinion on how much control government should have in our lives.

With that being said, most democrats have no problem with discriminating against businesses that do not believe in what they do, or have CEO's that make statements on personal beliefs.  See the attached article on Chick-Fil-A being banned from Chicago.

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2012/07/25/rahm-emanuel-latest-to-fight-chick-fil-a/

Dewey, do you believe a business should be denied entrance to a city based on the beliefs of the owner?  A simple yes or no will do.


Dewey

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Reply with quote  #142 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TylerDurden


I believe he is speaking of me - and allow me to clarify my answer. Tyler, I believe pabar gave the same answer.

I am a free-market person.  I believe a privately owned business has the right to refuse service to anyone, and that the market will punish those who do and will support those who don't.  If my favorite coffee shop refused to serve gays or African-Americans, the shop would soon go out of business as market pressure would force them to either serve them, or lose many loyal customers like myself.  It is my belief, and I stand my it.  That does not make me anti-gay or anti-black, just my opinion on how much control government should have in our lives.  No one is suggesting you're anti-gay or anti-black but we are opening the doors for those who are.

With that being said, most democrats as pabar asks, do you have any evidence of this?  That's OK, I know you are giving an educated opinion and not presenting it as a fact have no problem with discriminating against businesses that do not believe in what they do, or have CEO's that make statements on personal beliefs.  See the attached article on Chick-Fil-A being banned from Chicago.

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2012/07/25/rahm-emanuel-latest-to-fight-chick-fil-a/

Dewey, do you believe a business should be denied entrance to a city based on the beliefs of the owner?  No, unless owner refuses to serve all the community in a fair way and agree to follow the laws of the city.  A simple yes or no will do.


PDad

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Reply with quote  #143 
The answer to that question is "yes" because there are a myriad of valid reasons why they may be refused service and being gay doesn't make them immune from them. smh

The readers understand from my posts the reason why this would be different in a casual conversation - YOU and the reasons I listed above. A casual conversation would be an actual discussion of the nuances of the topic rather than an interrogation for your political purposes.

Edit:    Should a party rental business be allowed the right to refuse service to a gay couple having a backyard wedding ceremony and reception?
PDad

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Reply with quote  #144 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TylerDurden/Dewey
Dewey, do you believe a business should be denied entrance to a city based on the beliefs of the owner? No, unless owner refuses to serve all the community in a fair way and agree to follow the laws of the city. A simple yes or no will do.

A fresh example of the old Dewey double-standard I just mentioned...
Dewey

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Reply with quote  #145 
PDad - I answered no and then elaborated.  Everyone is free to expand on their yes or no answers.

As for the question, please share one of these "various" reasons understanding the context has been "religious beliefs" for as long as I can remember.

Edit:  Sure, if they can't pay they get no service.  If they destroyed the equipment last time they get no service.  I believe this would be stating the obvious and it's why I describe these non-answers as "purposely foggy".  I trust you know where I'm going with my question.
TylerDurden

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Posts: 3,869
Reply with quote  #146 
Thanks for the answer, but despite that, I believe that if more democrats are elected, owners of businesses could continue to be denied access to premium markets based on their beliefs.

Voters should know this about democratic candidates and their not wanting business owners to have their own personal beliefs.
Dewey

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Posts: 24,419
Reply with quote  #147 
Tyler - Thanks.  Now I like how you just shared your opinion in hopes others take notice.  I can disagree, say I believe the vast majority of Democrats don't want city councils to deny businesses from entering their city, and the readers can judge for themselves who makes a better case.  This is how we can address all issues. 
TylerDurden

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Reply with quote  #148 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewey
Tyler - Thanks.  Now I like how you just shared your opinion in hopes others take notice.  I can disagree, say I believe the vast majority of Democrats don't want city councils to deny businesses from entering their city, and the readers can judge for themselves who makes a better case.  This is how we can address all issues. 


Well there were several democratic controlled cities that did this, the readers should be aware that more democrats in control will lead to less of a voice of religious freedom in this country.  If that's not something you are worried about, and want business owners to not be able to speak their thoughts on subjects without being denied access to markets, then vote democrat.
Dewey

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Reply with quote  #149 
I'm not sure if any city was ultimately successful, or if even more than one tried, but I believe a majority of Democrats will fight against city actions like these.  I can't say the same for Republicans fighting against allowing discrimination, based on religious beliefs, to flouring in our business communities.
TylerDurden

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Reply with quote  #150 
I see you are trying to minimize the discrimination against having private views that are contrary to democrats, but it happened other places as well:

http://www.eater.com/2012/7/20/6562975/boston-mayor-bans-chick-fil-a-over-anti-gay-comments
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