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TheNarrator

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Reply with quote  #1 
Looks like the P5 are considering adding a third paid assistant for baseball/softball.

https://www.star-telegram.com/sports/college/big-12/texas-christian-university/article229259794.html
GoingBackToCali

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Reply with quote  #2 
Who actually votes on this measure? I think it would be a huge win for softball as it could mean 100-200 additional careers in the sport.
spazsdad

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Reply with quote  #3 
They better hope for a $15/hr min wage to pass considering what many assistants get paid
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CajunAmos

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Reply with quote  #4 
Quote:
Originally Posted by spazsdad
They better hope for a $15/hr min wage to pass considering what many assistants get paid


I think they would do it only for baseball if they thought it wouldn't be an uproar. They are trying to balance a coach/player ratio. Baseball has a 35 person roster and an NCAA mandated scholarship rule that says 27(or 28?) players have to receive at least 0.25% scholarship of the 11.7 total scholarships. I don't think softball has a maximum roster size but I think most are 20-30.
3leftturns

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Reply with quote  #5 

Quote:
Originally Posted by CajunAmos


I think they would do it only for baseball if they thought it wouldn't be an uproar. They are trying to balance a coach/player ratio. Baseball has a 35 person roster and an NCAA mandated scholarship rule that says 27(or 28?) players have to receive at least 0.25% scholarship of the 11.7 total scholarships. I don't think softball has a maximum roster size but I think most are 20-30.
That is zero rationale for baseball getting it and not softball. They both have 12 schollies

 

Texas711

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They're meeting April 19, here is the proposal on the 4th paid coach and eliminating the volunteer:
o. 2018-34ATHLETICS PERSONNEL -- LIMITATIONS ON NUMBER OF COACHES AND OFF-CAMPUS RECRUITERS AND VOLUNTEER COACH -- BASEBALL AND SOFTBALL -- FOURTH COUNTABLE COACH AND NO VOLUNTEER COACH
Intent: In baseball and softball, to increase, from three to four, the limit on the number of coaches who may be employed by an institution and who may contact or evaluate prospective student-athletes off-campus; further, to specify that an institution shall not use the services of a volunteer coach.
Bylaws: Amend 11.7, as follows:
11.7 Limitations on the Number and Duties of Coaches and Noncoaching Staff Members. [11.7.1 through 11.7.5 unchanged.]
11.7.6 Limitations on Number of Coaches and Off-Campus Recruiters. There shall be a limit on the number of coaches (other than graduate assistant coaches per Bylaw 11.01.3 and 11.01.4, student assistant assistant coaches per Bylaw 11.01.5 and volunteer coaches per Bylaw 11.01.6) who may be employed by an institution and who may contact or evaluate prospective student-athletes off campus in each sport as follows:
Sport Limit Baseball 3 4 Softball, Women's 3 4
[All other sports unchanged.] [11.7.6.1 unchanged.]
11.7.6.2 Exceptions to Number Limits. No individual other than coaches designated to fill the coaching limits set forth in Bylaw 11.7.6 may participate in any manner in the coaching of the intercollegiate team of a member institution during any game, practice or other organized activity, with the following exceptions:
[11.7.6.2.1 through 11.7.6.2.2 unchanged.]
11.7.6.2.3 Volunteer Coach. In sports other than baseball, football, basketball, women’s equestrian, women’s rowing, softball, swimming and diving and women's triathlon, a member institution may use the services of one volunteer coach (per Bylaw 11.01.6). Indoor track and field, outdoor track and field, and cross country are separate sports for purposes of this provision. In sports in which the NCAA conducts separate men's and women's championships, a combined men's and women's program may use two volunteer coaches.
[11.7.6.2.3.1 through 11.7.6.2.3.6 unchanged.]
[11.7.6.2.4 through 11.7.6.2.8 unchanged.] Source: Southeastern Conference Effective Date: August 1, 2019 Category: Amendment Topical Area: Athletics Personnel
Rationale: This proposal seeks to add an additional full-time countable coach in baseball and softball by elevating the current volunteer coach position to a full-time countable coach. Expanding the permissible duties and responsibilities of the current volunteer coach to those of a full-time countable coach will enhance student-athlete well-being by permitting another coach to engage in off-campus recruiting activity, thereby significantly increasing the likelihood that a regular full-time coaching staff member will remain on-campus to engage with current student-athletes in practice and other associated activities. In addition, elevating the position and adding another full-time coach will also increase opportunities and enhance the development of emerging coaches entering the profession, promote coaching staff stability, and allow coaching staffs to better and more adequately serve the needs and interests of their student-athletes by reducing the rising student-athlete to coach ratio in both sports. Finally, while this proposal will elevate the volunteer coach position to a full-time countable coach and thereby legislatively eliminate the traditional volunteer coach position, institutions will have the discretion to employ and utilize the services of the new fourth countable staff member position as they see fit.
Estimated Budget Impact: Will vary based upon institutional hiring decisions; potential expenses to add two coaching positions.
Impact on Student-Athlete's Time (Academic and/or Athletics): None. Position Statement(s):
Experience Committee No Formal Committee noted proposal does not add additional coach, but allows for Student-Athlete
Position
enhanced student-athlete experience through paid coach; however, committee expressed budget concerns.
NCAA Division I Student- Supports Athlete Advisory Committee
Legislative Committee No Formal Position
History:
Aug 30, 2018: Submitted to National Office Sep 28, 2018: In Progress Feb 7, 2019:Ready for Vote
HenryLouisAaron

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Reply with quote  #7 
<< They're meeting April 19, here is the proposal on the 4th paid coach and eliminating the volunteer:
o. 2018-34ATHLETICS PERSONNEL -- LIMITATIONS ON NUMBER OF COACHES AND OFF-CAMPUS RECRUITERS AND VOLUNTEER COACH -- BASEBALL AND SOFTBALL -- FOURTH COUNTABLE COACH AND NO VOLUNTEER COACH >>


What is the reasoning...  to eliminate volunteer coaching positions..?
Texas711

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Reply with quote  #8 
This link is to the NCAA document on what they are voting on, a couple interesting ones include in season transfers 2018-105 and redshirt 2018-41

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://web3.ncaa.org/lsdbi/reports/getReport/90007&ved=2ahUKEwjx0MHixNPhAhVJaq0KHQe4ANgQFjAAegQIBRAC&usg=AOvVaw3Ez67QNhrWpoaQCvQbifKj
Wichita_Mustangs

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Reply with quote  #9 
You have to be one of the most clueless posters on the message board
Still_JAD

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Reply with quote  #10 
The funny part is calling the third coach at a P5 school a "volunteer coach", most of them are paid, they are just not on salary like the rest of the coaching staff.
lurker123

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Reply with quote  #11 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Still_JAD
The funny part is calling the third coach at a P5 school a "volunteer coach", most of them are paid, they are just not on salary like the rest of the coaching staff.


Depending on the school the volunteer "pay" is pretty meager at best.

Anyone with more information know if this completely removes the volunteer position at schools that decide not to hire the third assistant?

While TerpAlum's post is mostly nonsense. I think that the point about "these don't pay well, lots of turnover and transcience for those who hold them. Around here, hardly anyone applies for them." Is kind of interesting and worth thinking about.

Someone mentioned $15 minimum wage and that would not apply to these salary positions. I know at certain schools when the salary exemption to overtime pay was going to rise to $47,500 they were ready to classify all coaches including softball as teachers to continue to pay them less than the exemption and suppress salaries and not have to pay overtime.

There are many programs looking at the MAAC where the head coaches are paid a pittance. I think that any coach of any sport whether a head or assistant should at minimum be paid the amount of tuition and board for a student at said institution. If a school can't invest that they shouldn't really have a softball program in my opinion.

Still_JAD

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Reply with quote  #12 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lurker123


Depending on the school the volunteer "pay" is pretty meager at best.

Anyone with more information know if this completely removes the volunteer position at schools that decide not to hire the third assistant?

While TerpAlum's post is mostly nonsense. I think that the point about "these don't pay well, lots of turnover and transcience for those who hold them. Around here, hardly anyone applies for them." Is kind of interesting and worth thinking about.

Someone mentioned $15 minimum wage and that would not apply to these salary positions. I know at certain schools when the salary exemption to overtime pay was going to rise to $47,500 they were ready to classify all coaches including softball as teachers to continue to pay them less than the exemption and suppress salaries and not have to pay overtime.

There are many programs looking at the MAAC where the head coaches are paid a pittance. I think that any coach of any sport whether a head or assistant should at minimum be paid the amount of tuition and board for a student at said institution. If a school can't invest that they shouldn't really have a softball program in my opinion.


Never said they were paid "well", but most of them are "paid"...and as you noted very few assistant coaches, salary or volunteer, make a lot of money.  If $47.5K is the exemption threshold, would love to know how many softball assistant coaches make more than that.
CajunAmos

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Reply with quote  #13 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lurker123


Depending on the school the volunteer "pay" is pretty meager at best.

Anyone with more information know if this completely removes the volunteer position at schools that decide not to hire the third assistant?

While TerpAlum's post is mostly nonsense. I think that the point about "these don't pay well, lots of turnover and transcience for those who hold them. Around here, hardly anyone applies for them." Is kind of interesting and worth thinking about.

Someone mentioned $15 minimum wage and that would not apply to these salary positions. I know at certain schools when the salary exemption to overtime pay was going to rise to $47,500 they were ready to classify all coaches including softball as teachers to continue to pay them less than the exemption and suppress salaries and not have to pay overtime.

There are many programs looking at the MAAC where the head coaches are paid a pittance. I think that any coach of any sport whether a head or assistant should at minimum be paid the amount of tuition and board for a student at said institution. If a school can't invest that they shouldn't really have a softball program in my opinion.



In baseball, they are typically paid by the profit made from summer camps. I would think if you're a top 25 team your camps are pretty profitable as they hold a number of them. Some are age grouped, and some are "prospect" camps.
Texas711

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Reply with quote  #14 
There are a lot of things the volunteer cannot do. Recruiting is a big reason for this to be implemented. A volunteer cannot recruit, with the changes to what age you can talk to the recruits and the shortening of the recruiting season a 4th paid coach could be a big asset.
TheNarrator

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Reply with quote  #15 
UT is currently one of the schools in the Big 12, along with OU I believe, that is not on board with the third paid assistant.
CajunAmos

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Reply with quote  #16 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheNarrator
UT is currently one of the schools in the Big 12, along with OU I believe, that is not on board with the third paid assistant.


$230M revenue getting tight? [biggrin]
NCexile

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Reply with quote  #17 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3leftturns

That is zero rationale for baseball getting it and not softball. They both have 12 schollies

 


Except some baseball pitching staffs are as large as softball rosters. My daughter coached at the D1 level for several years. All those years she was the single assistant in programs that couldn't (or wouldn't) afford to fund two.  I'm fairly certain she would agree that two assistants are plenty for collegiate softball.

And . . . . . let's take the damn wristbands off and give the game back to players!  Uh-oh; that just slipped out [frown]
Nextyear

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wichita_Mustangs
You have to be one of the most clueless posters on the message board


+1 lol
lurker123

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Reply with quote  #19 
The $47k rule was overturned by the courts before going into effect in late 2016 and was an Obama policy that got tossed to the side after Trump won election. But schools were preparing for it ahead of 12/1/16 date for it going into law.
TheNarrator

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Reply with quote  #20 
Quote:
Originally Posted by NCexile

Except some baseball pitching staffs are as large as softball rosters. My daughter coached at the D1 level for several years. All those years she was the single assistant in programs that couldn't (or wouldn't) afford to fund two.  I'm fairly certain she would agree that two assistants are plenty for collegiate softball.

And . . . . . let's take the damn wristbands off and give the game back to players!  Uh-oh; that just slipped out [frown]


New game - who dis?
Goober12

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Reply with quote  #21 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TerpAlum
While it is great to have more jobs, these don't pay well, lots of turnover and transcience for those who hold them. Around here, hardly anyone applies for them.

Worse, I feel there is already too much over-coaching of players. And the darn taking notes during the game while losing the forest for the trees is simply annoying. (Yeah, you called a riseball and they hit a homer, but the pitch did not hits its spot, so why write that down [in terms of pitch calling strategy]?) You have game film...

It reminds me of travel ball, where the game is managed by 5 dads per 9 players.

Mostly just a general over-control of the game and the players by coaches. "They (coaches) have jobs and we have to find things for them to do."


Isn’t the point of a volunteer coach to be an entry level position? The high turn over is actually good in this case, it allows players interested in coaching the opportunity to get their feet wet. My first job didn’t pay well either lol

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Stephen

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Reply with quote  #22 
Kendall Rogers with D1baseball.com is saying that as of now the ACC is opposed to the change, which makes it unlikely to happen.
BigTenSoftball

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Reply with quote  #23 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lurker123




Anyone with more information know if this completely removes the volunteer position at schools that decide not to hire the third assistant?




Schools would still have the option to keep it as a volunteer position.  Ultimately benefits the larger programs.
Texas711

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Reply with quote  #24 
Big 12, Big 10 and ACC all against it. Little chance of it passing
RELAX

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Reply with quote  #25 
I don't understand why the conferences are voting. Is that how all NCAA rule changes work?

I don't see why it's a big deal. Basketball has 3 paid assistants and they have much smaller rosters than softball. Make it acceptable and whichever schools decide to fund it can fund it. It's just like a school not being fully funded with the 12 scholarships. I'm sure there aren't many of them, but they exist. It's just an NCAA limit, not a requirement that has to be fulfilled. You can have less but not more. Not all schools have 2 paid assistants now.
cjs4585

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Reply with quote  #26 
I'm not sure how I feel about this. It expands the recruiting capabilities of the P5 schools by creating another recruiter. The problem is for other conferences, who generally are already at a recruiting disadvantage with p5 schools, this may widen that gap. Is that what we want? As to how many schools don't fully fund the 12 scholarships, in the p5, I've never heard of any (I'm certainly not an expert on this and there may be some). For non-p5 schools there are several I know about (and probably a lot that I don't). Several schools in the MAC don't fully fund softball scholarships and there are others I've read about as well. That is another way the p5 schools have an advantage over at least some of the non-p5. On the other hand, it does create more paid positions for coaching which may enable easier transitions for players to become coaches which in general I think is a great thing. As to volunteer coaches getting paid, even at the top programs I know about, it's a pittance. Nowhere near $15/hour.  
3leftturns

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Reply with quote  #27 
I like the idea that the P5s that don't want to do this get left behind
Wichita_Mustangs

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Reply with quote  #28 
It is crazy if they dont vote this in. Cannot believe MW is blowing the UT AD up. He is the one driving the big 12 to say no. Makes no sense with all the money they have
PaulyGirl

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Reply with quote  #29 
If I am interpreting this rule change correctly (I am sure someone will let me know if I'm not), it would eliminate volunteer coaches????? I can understand why some programs would not be in favor of this change. One of the big advantages a program can have is to bring in a slew of specialty volunteer coaches....for example....bring in 2-4 former pitchers whose only purpose for being there is to throw live batting practice. The oversight of these volunteer coaches by the colleges compliance department and the NCAA is extremely difficult and thus you have a volunteer pitching coach who also gives private pitching lessons to prospective student athletes....it happens. It is a violation of NCAA rules but is just one more thing for the governing body to keep track of. 
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1janiedough

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Reply with quote  #30 
"More ADs, coaches, trainers, regimens, and the philosophy has gotten damaged by money to where it seems like athletes are guinea pigs in a cage running on a wheel going nowhere"

Oh yes, that's it for sure!
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