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PDad

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Reply with quote  #31 
Quote:
Originally Posted by uwApoligist
Some are saying maybe a weapon the shooter modified to add a crank firing mechanism.  Based on the way the rate of fire varied, and the way the shooter maintained a sweeping motion.  

How about a bump stock?

Bama_CF

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Reply with quote  #32 
Investigators say Las Vegas terrorist used .223 and .308 caliber rifles which he purchased legally.  Of course he did. 

We will continue to do nothing and mass murderers will continue to slaughter Americans, while the right whines about Mexicans and muslims. 


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Bama_CF

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Reply with quote  #33 
Right wing: Banning automatic weapons / assault rifles /  high magazine capacity weapons won't do any good. Bad guys will still get them.  blah blah

We all need guns, that's the way to be safe.  blah blah

Except this ...


[AjNtO8XxT1WV89OqXNVE_chart36] 

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Bama_CF

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Reply with quote  #34 
In the middle of the night, in the wee hours of the morning, and all day today, the conservative right misinformation network has been hard at work, very busy indeed. 

From Alex Jones accusing the wrong person and making up they were antifa to changing to the whole thing being s false flag hoax (you know like Newtown, CT), to you name it ... The right is propagating lies. 

There have been at least 15 known, published fabrications by various right wing wacko sites all day. When you have huge masses of your side that lies so easily and willingly and eagerly spreads lies, combined with another huge set of supporters that will believe any dumb ass BS they are told - it's a pretty good strategy. 

Until the other side figures out it literally defines you and decides to make it priority 1 in terms of money and effort. Never again will the pathetic lies spread like wildfire among the tea party / white / right wing / working class w without getting called out every time by high profile people in high profile ways. 

The right is a sick bunch, willing to do whatever it takes to Make America White Again. 

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TheNarrator

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Reply with quote  #35 
Bama_CF,

I had a long, hate filled response to your using the terrorist attack in Las Vegas to score political cheap shots, but deleted it.  It's not worth the time.

Instead, I am going to pray for you.  This forum is no more than about 20 people here having a conversation about all sorts of things and is a way to escape the real world for a few minutes a day.  Your posts in this thread about the deadliest terrorist shooting in the history of this GREAT country is a bridge too far.  We lost at lest 58 souls from this earth from a venue I have actually been to for a concert, and you probably couldn't wait to come here and call all white people evil and racist.

Most of us here will pray for the families that have lost people forever because some guy shot up a concert.  Hopefully you will find peace with whatever is troubling you at this point in your life.

Edit to add:

Just watched some of the videos.  Great Americas helping each other out.  Teared up watching them help each other.
TheNarrator

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Reply with quote  #36 
One of many pics of thousands donating blood:

[image]
pabar61

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Reply with quote  #37 
Quote:
Originally Posted by uwApoligist
[fRSwumb] 


This woman has been fired by CBS.
spazsdad

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Posts: 4,893
Reply with quote  #38 
Lots of stories around the web. Neighbor says he was out of country for 6 months. GF has Australian passport but listed as Indo/Muslim. Convenient she has fled country. His scrubbed FB page showed support for Hilary, antifa, rachelmadcow, Anti trump, etc.
Also ISIS has claimed him by name at least 4 times
No way this is a guy that "snapped" way to well planned.
Edited to add
SUCK IT BAMATARD YOU VILE, UNINFORMED, POS

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#SCOTUS
DietCoke

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Reply with quote  #39 
Thoughts and prayers aren't working.  The Reps scream don't politicize a mass shooting.  Invoke the 72 hour rule.  It's not about guns.  Good guys with guns will take out bad guys with guns.  None of these arguments are working.  Let's talk about it - NOW.  Let's do something about it - NOW.  Before you or or sons or daughters are killed.

From Politico a few months ago - (and guess what, absolutely nothing has changed because Congress refuses to talk about it) -

Politicize This Tragedy

June 14, 2017

The stink of gunsmoke was still hanging over Eugene Simpson Stadium Park in Alexandria, Virginia, as politicians and social media citizens took to microphones, cameras and keyboards to advise us on how to discuss or not discuss the shooting of Rep. Steve Scalise (R-La.) and four others at a congressional baseball practice this morning.

Writing in The Week, Anthony L. Fisher articulated the soft consensus often peddled following a violent act like this by pleading that we not “politicize” the shooting. We must remain “prudent, calm and decent in a time of high anxiety” and avoid “blame,” Fisher wrote. How, exactly, do you depoliticize the attempted assassination of a dugout full of Republican congressmen by a vocal supporter of Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.)? Fisher, bless his heart, can’t implement his own instruction, going on to predict—rightly, I should add—that the shooting would be “exploited by partisans on the right” who believe the cultural elite’s attacks on President Donald Trump somehow encouraged the attempted assassination.

The president’s son, Donald Jr., for one, embraced that line of thought, with a retweet that linked the shooting to the New York Public Theater’s production of Julius Caesar. Rep. Chris Collins (R-N.Y.) sided with Donald Jr., telling a Buffalo radio station that outrageous Democratic “rhetoric” was culpable for the attack. MSNBC’s Joy Reid dismissed the exponents of that sentiment as “ridiculous.”

Gov. Terry McAuliffe (D-Va.) took a uniquely centrist stand, pouring a weak cocktail that expressed both the “don’t politicize” and the “politicize the hell out it” positions in one sentence. “This is not what today is about” but there “are too many guns on the street,” he said at the crime scene.

How did we come to the view that there is a right time and a wrong time to discuss politics? Who invented the idea that we must never risk overexciting the nation by raising contentious political points at times of tragedy? When did we assent to the idea that we’re fragile children who can’t handle dreadful news?

These impulses are surely part superstition, part social manners. Shootings such as the Alexandria incident usually end in the death of innocents, and some of us have come to believe, somewhat superstitiously, that silence somehow conveys “respect” upon the dead. Likewise, our silence is solicited after a shooting because it’s the polite thing to do—the victims’ survivors are suffering from emotional overload and can’t tolerate any more venom. Sometimes a third justification is floated: We mustn’t sensationalize shootings because they might stir other shooters to action.

Like most directives on the proper ways to jaw about murderous tragedies, the “now’s not the time” or “lower your voice” commands are mostly about diluting the debate to the advantage of one side. Even a dime-store rhetorician will tell you if you can restrict your opponent’s vocabulary and the range of his emotion to your advantage—doing all you can to block full-throatedness—you’ve got a better chance of winning the argument.

The call to politicize or depoliticize a shooting is just that. It’s also about convenience. President Barack Obama waited only a few hours to say that gun violence was “something we should politicize” after a 2015 shooting at an Oregon community college because saying so dovetailed perfectly with his political position. The Republicans who can’t resist the opportunity today to use the ballpark shooting to hush Democrats didn’t feel that way when Sandy Hook Elementary’s schoolchildren and their teachers were slaughtered. At full voice, they insisted that we mustn’t use the killings for political ends.

Political violence runs through the American story like a razor slash. Gunplay has harvested four presidents—Abraham Lincoln, James Garfield, William McKinley and John Kennedy—and depending on how you count, assassins have taken target practice on another eight or nine sitting presidents and presidential candidates. The list of other assassinated American politicians runs for pages on Wikipedia, and let’s not forget the time four revolutionaries shouting “Viva Puerto Rico Libre” shot up the 83rd Congress in 1954, wounding five members of the House and a page.

Politics exists as the best place to hash out our differences—to do battle in the most extreme fashion with words rather than with guns. When in doubt, politicize.


__________________
"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable," - John F. Kennedy
DietCoke

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Posts: 2,172
Reply with quote  #40 
Thoughts and prayers aren't working.  Moments of silence are meaningless.  The Reps scream don't politicize a mass shooting.  Invoke the 72 hour rule.  It's not about guns.  Good guys with guns will take out bad guys with guns.  None of these arguments are working.  Let's talk about it - NOW.  Let's do something about it - NOW.  Before you or or your sons or daughters are killed.

From Politico a few months ago - (and guess what, absolutely nothing has changed because Congress refuses to talk about it) -

Politicize This Tragedy

June 14, 2017

The stink of gunsmoke was still hanging over Eugene Simpson Stadium Park in Alexandria, Virginia, as politicians and social media citizens took to microphones, cameras and keyboards to advise us on how to discuss or not discuss the shooting of Rep. Steve Scalise (R-La.) and four others at a congressional baseball practice this morning.

Writing in The Week, Anthony L. Fisher articulated the soft consensus often peddled following a violent act like this by pleading that we not “politicize” the shooting. We must remain “prudent, calm and decent in a time of high anxiety” and avoid “blame,” Fisher wrote. How, exactly, do you depoliticize the attempted assassination of a dugout full of Republican congressmen by a vocal supporter of Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.)? Fisher, bless his heart, can’t implement his own instruction, going on to predict—rightly, I should add—that the shooting would be “exploited by partisans on the right” who believe the cultural elite’s attacks on President Donald Trump somehow encouraged the attempted assassination.

The president’s son, Donald Jr., for one, embraced that line of thought, with a retweet that linked the shooting to the New York Public Theater’s production of Julius Caesar. Rep. Chris Collins (R-N.Y.) sided with Donald Jr., telling a Buffalo radio station that outrageous Democratic “rhetoric” was culpable for the attack. MSNBC’s Joy Reid dismissed the exponents of that sentiment as “ridiculous.”

Gov. Terry McAuliffe (D-Va.) took a uniquely centrist stand, pouring a weak cocktail that expressed both the “don’t politicize” and the “politicize the hell out it” positions in one sentence. “This is not what today is about” but there “are too many guns on the street,” he said at the crime scene.

How did we come to the view that there is a right time and a wrong time to discuss politics? Who invented the idea that we must never risk overexciting the nation by raising contentious political points at times of tragedy? When did we assent to the idea that we’re fragile children who can’t handle dreadful news?

These impulses are surely part superstition, part social manners. Shootings such as the Alexandria incident usually end in the death of innocents, and some of us have come to believe, somewhat superstitiously, that silence somehow conveys “respect” upon the dead. Likewise, our silence is solicited after a shooting because it’s the polite thing to do—the victims’ survivors are suffering from emotional overload and can’t tolerate any more venom. Sometimes a third justification is floated: We mustn’t sensationalize shootings because they might stir other shooters to action.

Like most directives on the proper ways to jaw about murderous tragedies, the “now’s not the time” or “lower your voice” commands are mostly about diluting the debate to the advantage of one side. Even a dime-store rhetorician will tell you if you can restrict your opponent’s vocabulary and the range of his emotion to your advantage—doing all you can to block full-throatedness—you’ve got a better chance of winning the argument.

The call to politicize or depoliticize a shooting is just that. It’s also about convenience. President Barack Obama waited only a few hours to say that gun violence was “something we should politicize” after a 2015 shooting at an Oregon community college because saying so dovetailed perfectly with his political position. The Republicans who can’t resist the opportunity today to use the ballpark shooting to hush Democrats didn’t feel that way when Sandy Hook Elementary’s schoolchildren and their teachers were slaughtered. At full voice, they insisted that we mustn’t use the killings for political ends.

Political violence runs through the American story like a razor slash. Gunplay has harvested four presidents—Abraham Lincoln, James Garfield, William McKinley and John Kennedy—and depending on how you count, assassins have taken target practice on another eight or nine sitting presidents and presidential candidates. The list of other assassinated American politicians runs for pages on Wikipedia, and let’s not forget the time four revolutionaries shouting “Viva Puerto Rico Libre” shot up the 83rd Congress in 1954, wounding five members of the House and a page.

Politics exists as the best place to hash out our differences—to do battle in the most extreme fashion with words rather than with guns. When in doubt, politicize.


__________________
"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable," - John F. Kennedy
spazsdad

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Reply with quote  #41 
Hardly worth posting once, leave alone twice
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#SCOTUS
Will_I_Wynn

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Posts: 146
Reply with quote  #42 
"Passing laws against murder, passing laws against abortion, or passing laws banning certain types of weapons will not eliminate murders, abortions, or shootings."


Has there ever been a more unnecessary reminder than the one above?

__________________



End of FY 2001, which was Pres Clinton last year, debt was $5.8T.
See next link.

End of FY 2009, which is last year applicable to Pres Bush, debt was $11.9T or more than doubled.
See here - https://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/reports/pd/histdebt/histdebt_histo5.htm

Eight years under Obama deficits total about $7T.
See here - https://www.usgovernmentspending.com/federal_deficit

Understand debt goes up higher than total deficits.
Explained here - https://www.forbes.com/sites/stancollender/2014/11/04/there-is-no-budget-conspiracy-why-federal-debt-increases-by-more-than-the-deficit/



bluedog

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Reply with quote  #43 
We need guns for in case the liberals ever take over........
mikec

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Posts: 8,184
Reply with quote  #44 
Ok DC, Willdewey, bamaracist, and whoever else - what do you want done?
rudymartinez

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Posts: 386
Reply with quote  #45 
Anyone who can cite the law of legal weaponry and tell by the sound of the weapon fired, is one pecan short of being a nut job.  Woodrow tell me how again I am the weak and will die without you making yourself suspect of lunacy. At least if you go all fruitcake, you will tracked down. Don't blame me.

PS white terrorist are far more than likely mass murders ...than Mexicans. Explain that.
mikec

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Reply with quote  #46 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rudymartinez
Anyone who can cite the law of legal weaponry and tell by the sound of the weapon fired, is one pecan short of being a nut job.  Woodrow tell me how again I am the weak and will die without you making yourself suspect of lunacy. At least if you go all fruitcake, you will tracked down. Don't blame me.

PS white terrorist are far more than likely mass murders ...than Mexicans. Explain that.


this is an all time stupid post.

why WOULDN'T you know the law?  what is wrong with knowing it?

as for your white comment - see sentence #1
pabar61

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Posts: 9,522
Reply with quote  #47 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rudymartinez
Anyone who can cite the law of legal weaponry and tell by the sound of the weapon fired, is one pecan short of being a nut job.  Woodrow tell me how again I am the weak and will die without you making yourself suspect of lunacy. At least if you go all fruitcake, you will tracked down. Don't blame me.

PS white terrorist are far more than likely mass murders ...than Mexicans. Explain that.


Because Mexicans are too lazy?
EarlyGrayce

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Posts: 4,344
Reply with quote  #48 
They drink too much tequila?
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A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
DietCoke

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Reply with quote  #49 
Good to see that opinions and beliefs can be changed.  It's just sad that it takes a tragedy like this to make it happen.  One American at a time...

From NY Times -

Country music artists and other performers expressed words of sympathy as well as frustration over gun violence on Monday as they mourned the mass shooting at a Las Vegas concert. One guitarist who played there said that the killings had changed his views on gun laws.

Some of these comments were politically striking, given that country music — which is widely popular across the nation — has a vocal fan base among gun owners. In 2010, the National Rifle Association started NRA Country to show “a softer side” of its organization. Its artist partners include some of the genre’s biggest stars, including Trace Adkins, Florida Georgia Line, Tyler Farr and Thomas Rhett.

The performer whose views had shifted — Caleb Keeter of the Josh Abbott Band, which was part of the weekend lineup in Las Vegas — said on Twitter on Monday that he had been “a proponent of the Second Amendment my entire life.”


“I’ve been a proponent of the 2nd amendment my entire life. Until the events of last night. I cannot express how wrong I was. We actually have members of our crew with [Concealed Handgun Licenses], and legal firearms on the bus,” Keeter wrote. “They were useless.” He continued:

We couldn’t touch them for fear police might think we were part of the massacre and shoot us. A small group (or one man) laid waste to a city with dedicated, fearless police officers desperately trying to help, because of access to an insane amount of fire power.

Enough is enough.

Writing my parents and the love of my life a goodbye last night and a living will because I felt like I wasn’t going to live through the night was enough for me to realize that this is completely and totally out of hand. These rounds were just powerful enough that my crew guys just standing in close proximity of a victim shot by this f—ing coward received shrapnel wounds.

We need gun control RIGHT. NOW. My biggest regret is that I stubbornly didn’t realize it until my brothers on the road and myself were threatened by it. We are unbelievably fortunate to not be among the number of victims killed or seriously wounded by this maniac.


Mr. Keeter, a guitarist, said that members of the band legally had firearms on the bus, but refrained from using them for fear the police would mistakenly think they were part of the attack.

“We need gun control RIGHT. NOW.” Mr. Keeter wrote. “My biggest regret is that I stubbornly didn’t realize it until my brothers on the road and myself were threatened by it.”

Mr. Keeter said he had written a living will and goodbye messages to his parents and partner on Sunday for fear that he would not survive the night. Members of his crew received shrapnel wounds, he said.

Country music is among the most popular genres in American music, particularly in live performances and on the radio, and is more broadly beloved than sometimes assumed. In 2016, country was the most-listened to radio format for the eighth consecutive year, topping news/talk radio and Top 40 with 13.6 percent of all listening, according to Nielsen. Large outdoor festivals like Stagecoach, Taste of Country and CMA Music Fest draw millions of fans every year.

Politically, the genre has long been associated with red states, especially in the South, and a conservative bent, even casting out some of its left-leaning, outspoken stars, like the Dixie Chicks, who faced a widespread industry boycott after criticizing President George W. Bush in 2003. While pop stars like Lady Gaga and Beyoncé closely aligned themselves with Hillary Clinton in last year’s election, country artists like Lee Brice and Chris Janson performed in support of Donald J. Trump at the Republican National Convention.


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"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable," - John F. Kennedy
pabar61

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Reply with quote  #50 
Never heard of Caleb Keeter or the Josh Abbott Band and I'm a big country music fan.  Maybe this guy is just trying to make a name for himself.
rudymartinez

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Posts: 386
Reply with quote  #51 
Mikey, more logs on the yule time fire. There's a limited group who can site automatic weapon laws. White supremacist and foreign terrorists are two of them. Rationally defend anyone who has automatic weapons and thousands of rounds of ammo. Hunters? Not any true sportsmen. Anyone who knows automatic weaponry law is a psycho waiting to happen.

#sicko

All time great post for you gun-toting rednecks.
EarlyGrayce

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Reply with quote  #52 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pabar61
Never heard of Caleb Keeter or the Josh Abbott Band and I'm a big country music fan.  Maybe this guy is just trying to make a name for himself.


An emotional knee-jerk reaction. Understandable, and very lib-like. Good thing emotions don't get to make legislation. What a crazy country this would be. 


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A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
Lost_1

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Reply with quote  #53 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pabar61
Never heard of Caleb Keeter or the Josh Abbott Band and I'm a big country music fan.  Maybe this guy is just trying to make a name for himself.



Josh Abbott Band is true Texas country, not the pop country crap on the radio.

__________________
If we are not careful, our colleges will produce a group of close-minded, unscientific, illogical propagandists, consumed with immoral acts. - Dr. Martin Luther King


“Everyone is in favor of free speech. Hardly a day passes without its being extolled, but some people's idea of it is that they are free to say what they like, but if anyone else says anything back, that is an outrage.” Winston S. Churchill


DietCoke

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Reply with quote  #54 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pabar61
Never heard of Caleb Keeter or the Josh Abbott Band and I'm a big country music fan.  Maybe this guy is just trying to make a name for himself.


Well, because you've never heard of him, I guess he doesn't exist.  Or he's just "trying to make a name for himself".  That is about the weakest argument I've ever heard.  C'mon, pabar, you're better than that.  And remember, Google is your friend.

They've been around since 2006.  I'm not a CW fan, so I'm not familiar with them, but the band is real.  Check it out, pabar -

https://www.joshabbottband.com/#/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josh_Abbott_Band

And I guess they're good enough to be in the lineup for the Route 91 Harvest Festival (most of which I've never heard of either, but I don't doubt their existence) -

http://rt91harvest.com/lineup/

__________________
"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable," - John F. Kennedy
pabar61

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Reply with quote  #55 
Look - I've never heard of the guy and I've been listening to country music for 20 years.  You decided to cherry pick one guy who has taken a stand that you happen to like.  That does not a movement make.

Why don't you tell us all what YOUR solution is?
pabar61

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Reply with quote  #56 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lost_1
Josh Abbott Band is true Texas country, not the pop country crap on the radio.


I'm a Merle Haggard guy.  What the vast majority of today's country music stars play isn't country in my opinion.
pabar61

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Reply with quote  #57 
By the way, Trump's statement today was very good.

By contrast, Hillary, as she always does, immediately went into politics mode.  We should all thank God that she failed in her personal quest to become POTUS.
Fresh

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Reply with quote  #58 
According to trump....and Puerto Ricans too. Muslims aren't. That's why we have to be so careful....since they are all murderers.
mikec

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Reply with quote  #59 
The dude is upset - that's understandable.

However, no matter how many westerns you watch, a hand gun is not gonna help in the situation, so his crew's weapons were useless.

You don't carry so you can take on someone with an auto rifle at 300 yards. Self defence distance is about 10 yards.

So - why is the guy's crying relevant?
Fresh

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Posts: 2,144
Reply with quote  #60 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluedog
We need guns for in case the liberals ever take over........


Your christian state of mind is impressive. Makes me wish I had all that love in my heart. Can't you trust your god to take care of us heathens?
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