Ultimate College Softball
Register Calendar Latest Topics
 
 
 


Reply
  Author   Comment   Page 1 of 13      1   2   3   4   Next   »
uwApoligist

Registered:
Posts: 7,523
Reply with quote  #1 
Great paper by the Cato institute.  How the tax revolt of 1978.  I remember it very well.  Everyone, and I mean everyone just quit paying their taxes.  The Dems were in such a panic that they worked desperately with Reagan the 1981 tax cut plan, an across the board 30% reduction in taxes. 

https://www.cato.org/policy-report/januaryfebruary-2014/tax-revolt-its-time-learn-past-success?utm_content=buffer819c7&utm_medium=social&utm_source=plus.google.com&utm_campaign=buffer

__________________
Who gives a F if the japs are listening to her blathering about women's issues?  
Bama_CF

Registered:
Posts: 2,385
Reply with quote  #2 
This is a laughably inaccurate and simplistic description of the "Tax Revolt of 1978."  It had nothing to do with federal taxes and NO, "everyone" did not quit paying their taxes. It was Proposition 13 in California and it led to a few other copycat measures in other states. Your description of it is simply bogus. 

Ronald Reagan's sweeping tax cuts were made possible by his massive, huge victory in the election which gave him a mandate. And good for him and us tax paying citizens. 

Too bad that all bears no resemblance to anything Trump and the GOP are currently proposing. What they are dying to pass is huge tax cuts for the wealthy and tiny cuts for others. Not gonna pass.

__________________

 

uwApoligist

Registered:
Posts: 7,523
Reply with quote  #3 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bama_CF
This is a laughably inaccurate and simplistic description of the "Tax Revolt of 1978."  It had nothing to do with federal taxes and NO, "everyone" did not quit paying their taxes. It was Proposition 13 in California and it led to a few other copycat measures in other states. Your description of it is simply bogus. 

Ronald Reagan's sweeping tax cuts were made possible by his massive, huge victory in the election which gave him a mandate. And good for him and us tax paying citizens. 

Too bad that all bears no resemblance to anything Trump and the GOP are currently proposing. What they are dying to pass is huge tax cuts for the wealthy and tiny cuts for others. Not gonna pass.

30% across the board would be nice.

40% cut in federal spending so we can start to pay down our borrowing.

__________________
Who gives a F if the japs are listening to her blathering about women's issues?  
PDad

Registered:
Posts: 4,062
Reply with quote  #4 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bama_CF
Too bad that all bears no resemblance to anything Trump and the GOP are currently proposing. What they are dying to pass is huge tax cuts for the wealthy and tiny cuts for others. Not gonna pass.

What is your measuring stick - $ or % decrease? Libs usually focus on $ because most any decrease on the wealthy will result in more dollars than "others" - especially when >50% of them do not pay income taxes.

Question for all: Which change being proposed will be largest benefit to the very wealthy?
TheNarrator

Registered:
Posts: 4,030
Reply with quote  #5 
So which is it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by uwApoligist

30% across the board would be nice.

40% cut in federal spending so we can start to pay down our borrowing.


Your response to my comment about Savage's comment about Trump working with the Dems on a tax plan:

Quote:
Originally Posted by uwApoligist
It can't have any tax cuts for anyone right now.  $20T in debt and spending like drunken marxists.  

__________________
Dewey on victims of sexual assault:  Both women later switched their stories.  Was there a reward or something else behind their change?  Who knows?
uwApoligist

Registered:
Posts: 7,523
Reply with quote  #6 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheNarrator
So which is it?



Your response to my comment about Savage's comment about Trump working with the Dems on a tax plan:


You see the 40% cut on federal spending, correct?

__________________
Who gives a F if the japs are listening to her blathering about women's issues?  
uwApoligist

Registered:
Posts: 7,523
Reply with quote  #7 
Oh and we should to the 40% spending cut first.  Then wait about 6 months to a year.  As it looks like we get deficit and debt on some sane trajectory we take the tax cut.   We do the tax cut still ahead of fully paying off debt because we want the economic (and tax) growth that the tax cut will bring.  Ala 1964 and 1981. 



__________________
Who gives a F if the japs are listening to her blathering about women's issues?  
TheNarrator

Registered:
Posts: 4,030
Reply with quote  #8 
Quote:
Originally Posted by uwApoligist

You see the 40% cut on federal spending, correct?


I can read.  Just wondering what in the past seven days changed your mind.  Those are contradictory statements.  Probably had to do with the rumors about Pres. Trump working with the dems.

Try some original thought.

__________________
Dewey on victims of sexual assault:  Both women later switched their stories.  Was there a reward or something else behind their change?  Who knows?
uwApoligist

Registered:
Posts: 7,523
Reply with quote  #9 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheNarrator


I can read.  Just wondering what in the past seven days changed your mind.  Those are contradictory statements.  Probably had to do with the rumors about Pres. Trump working with the dems.

Try some original thought.

Nope.  Not aware of those rumors.  

My original thought is cuts in fed spending.  Including SS cuts, Healthcare, Medicare, Medicaid, entitlements.  40% across the board.  

Don't cut defense, but don't grow it either (which is painful, but unfortunately necessary).  

Let that sit for a while.  With those kinds of cuts, deficit should become significant surpluses.  Once we start to make progress on the 20T debt, we make 30% across the board tax cuts.  Launch the economy into a  new level.  Should be able to grow the economy and put a huge debt remain 15T in debt. 

As debt disappears gets closer to zero we can turn back on some of the gravy trains.  Except I would 100% focus on American Workers getting better jobs.  Poor inner city jobs programs.  Training for people that have a job to get a better job. 


__________________
Who gives a F if the japs are listening to her blathering about women's issues?  
uwApoligist

Registered:
Posts: 7,523
Reply with quote  #10 
BTW: it is not really original.  It was what got us 8 years of over 5% growth in 1964 and 10 years of 5% economic growth starting in 1981.
__________________
Who gives a F if the japs are listening to her blathering about women's issues?  
TheNarrator

Registered:
Posts: 4,030
Reply with quote  #11 
Quote:
Originally Posted by uwApoligist

Nope.  Not aware of those rumors.  


WHAT??

Your original response was to my post about Savage's prediction he would work with the dems.  You said "It can't have any tax cuts for anyone right now". 

This is getting comical.

__________________
Dewey on victims of sexual assault:  Both women later switched their stories.  Was there a reward or something else behind their change?  Who knows?
mikec

Registered:
Posts: 8,296
Reply with quote  #12 
I will admit up front that I am not going to read this thread, or the trump one.

It is oddly liberating to watch nothing but the Weather Channel for 4 straight days (took a break last night to watch a movie with my nephews).

I have no clue what's going on in the world today, and I've heard no non-weather news since last Weds.  And, it's great.
uwApoligist

Registered:
Posts: 7,523
Reply with quote  #13 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheNarrator


WHAT??

Your original response was to my post about Savage's prediction he would work with the dems.  You said "It can't have any tax cuts for anyone right now". 

This is getting comical.

how is is comical?  Spending cuts first.  Start the path to get deficit to surplus.  Work some of that $20T in debt down.  The tax cuts.  

You can't have any tax cuts without some spending cuts up front.  The hint on that is the $20T in debt.

__________________
Who gives a F if the japs are listening to her blathering about women's issues?  
Will_I_Wynn

Registered:
Posts: 403
Reply with quote  #14 
If you want to alienate Trump voters, and most other voters as well, cut SS benefits to their parents and grandparents and then come back later and reduce the taxes on wealthy people.
__________________
A gullible nation is a vulnerable nation.  Challenge what you read on the internet.  Our nation's security is in our hands.  Don't be duped by misinformation.




Fresh

Registered:
Posts: 2,508
Reply with quote  #15 
Biggest possible cut...........Defense................................................21%
Health Care..................................................................................28%
Pensions.......................................................................................25%
Welfare.........................................................................................9%
Interest........................................................................................7%

Where do the 40% in cuts come from? 69% is Health, Pensions, Welfare and Interest on debt.


Estimated Outlays from US Federal FY 18 Budget 
Change
View: people old functions radical censusprograms altprog oldprog COFOG
 
FY 2017
 Outlays
FY 2018
 Outlays
FY 2019
 Outlays
FY 2020
 Outlays
FY 2021
 Outlays
FY 2022
 Outlays
 
[+] Pensions1,012.51,061.81,145.71,216.41,289.01,372.8[graph]
[+] Health Care1,145.31,120.51,202.81,213.11,246.51,343.4[graph]
[+] Education159.6108.3106.7103.0102.2100.0[graph]
[+] 
 
 
Defense834.2885.9915.7920.2920.9929.8[graph]
[+] Welfare365.8353.5354.9353.8358.3366.2[graph]
[+] Protection41.041.542.042.844.345.2[graph]
[+] Transportation93.891.891.790.581.575.8[graph]
[+] General Government54.852.451.350.748.348.4[graph]
[+] Other Spending79.163.957.951.444.522.0[graph]
[+] Interest276.2314.9371.1428.1481.2528.2[graph]
[+] Balance0.00.00.00.00.00.0[graph]
[+] Total Spending:  Start chart4,062.24,094.54,339.64,470.14,616.74,831.7[graph]
[+] Federal Deficit602.5440.2525.9488.0455.8441.7[graph]
[+] Gross Public Debt20,354.421,093.321,840.022,503.423,114.123,647.4[graph]
[+] Other Borrowing212.5298.7220.8175.4155.091.6[graph]
[+] Agency/GSE Debt8,619.68,875.99,145.99,430.69,730.810,047.9[graph]
uwApoligist

Registered:
Posts: 7,523
Reply with quote  #16 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Will_I_Wynn
If you want to alienate Trump voters, and most other voters as well, cut SS benefits to their parents and grandparents and then come back later and reduce the taxes on wealthy people.

Everybody loses a little.  Get the debt down, and we can get things moving forward again.

Glad to see you have moved on from parsing debt vs deficit silliness.

__________________
Who gives a F if the japs are listening to her blathering about women's issues?  
uwApoligist

Registered:
Posts: 7,523
Reply with quote  #17 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fresh
Biggest possible cut...........Defense................................................21%
Health Care..................................................................................28%
Pensions.......................................................................................25%
Welfare.........................................................................................9%
Interest........................................................................................7%

Where do the 40% in cuts come from? 69% is Health, Pensions, Welfare and Interest on debt.


Estimated Outlays from US Federal FY 18 Budget 
Change
View: people old functions radical censusprograms altprog oldprog COFOG
 
FY 2017
 Outlays
FY 2018
 Outlays
FY 2019
 Outlays
FY 2020
 Outlays
FY 2021
 Outlays
FY 2022
 Outlays
 
[+] Pensions1,012.51,061.81,145.71,216.41,289.01,372.8[graph]
[+] Health Care1,145.31,120.51,202.81,213.11,246.51,343.4[graph]
[+] Education159.6108.3106.7103.0102.2100.0[graph]
[+] 
 
 
Defense834.2885.9915.7920.2920.9929.8[graph]
[+] Welfare365.8353.5354.9353.8358.3366.2[graph]
[+] Protection41.041.542.042.844.345.2[graph]
[+] Transportation93.891.891.790.581.575.8[graph]
[+] General Government54.852.451.350.748.348.4[graph]
[+] Other Spending79.163.957.951.444.522.0[graph]
[+] Interest276.2314.9371.1428.1481.2528.2[graph]
[+] Balance0.00.00.00.00.00.0[graph]
[+] Total Spending:  Start chart4,062.24,094.54,339.64,470.14,616.74,831.7[graph]
[+] Federal Deficit602.5440.2525.9488.0455.8441.7[graph]
[+] Gross Public Debt20,354.421,093.321,840.022,503.423,114.123,647.4[graph]
[+] Other Borrowing212.5298.7220.8175.4155.091.6[graph]
[+] Agency/GSE Debt8,619.68,875.99,145.99,430.69,730.810,047.9[graph]

Cut healthcare by 40%.  Cut Pensions by 40% going forward.  Cut Eduction by 40%.  Cut Welfare by 40%.  Cut Protection by 40%, Cut Transportation by 40%.  Cut General Government by 40%.  Cut Other Spending by 40%.  Year 1.

No tax cuts.  Year 1.

Year 2. watch and see on the Gross Public Debt number.  That comes down to about 16T or 15T.   You also see Total Spending vs Total Income.  If that has good hardy upside.  Year 2 you do a 30% across the board tax cut.  If you are rich, you pay 30% less.  If you are middle class you pay 30% less.  If you are poor you pay 30% less.  If don't pay any taxes, no cut for you, get a better job when the economy heats up and you can get a cut later. 

Let me know if that helps.

__________________
Who gives a F if the japs are listening to her blathering about women's issues?  
TheNarrator

Registered:
Posts: 4,030
Reply with quote  #18 
Quote:
Originally Posted by uwApoligist

how is is comical?  Spending cuts first.  Start the path to get deficit to surplus.  Work some of that $20T in debt down.  The tax cuts.  

You can't have any tax cuts without some spending cuts up front.  The hint on that is the $20T in debt.


It's comical because your story changes from one day to the next.  First, when it told to you Trump may be working with the dems, it was "no tax cuts for anyone".  Later, that switches to "30% across the board."  I am sure whatever number Trump decides on will be heavily lauded by you and you will continue to attack anyone that doesn't agree.

__________________
Dewey on victims of sexual assault:  Both women later switched their stories.  Was there a reward or something else behind their change?  Who knows?
Fresh

Registered:
Posts: 2,508
Reply with quote  #19 
Quote:
Originally Posted by uwApoligist

Cut healthcare by 40%.  Cut Pensions by 40% going forward.  Cut Eduction by 40%.  Cut Welfare by 40%.  Cut Protection by 40%, Cut Transportation by 40%.  Cut General Government by 40%.  Cut Other Spending by 40%.  Year 1.

No tax cuts.  Year 1.

Year 2. watch and see on the Gross Public Debt number.  That comes down to about 16T or 15T.   You also see Total Spending vs Total Income.  If that has good hardy upside.  Year 2 you do a 30% across the board tax cut.  If you are rich, you pay 30% less.  If you are middle class you pay 30% less.  If you are poor you pay 30% less.  If don't pay any taxes, no cut for you, get a better job when the economy heats up and you can get a cut later. 

Let me know if that helps.


Under current law, your plan is impossible. Congress can't repeal Obamacare in 7.5 years,how are they going to change the laws concerning entitlements?
DietCoke

Registered:
Posts: 2,180
Reply with quote  #20 
Quote:
Originally Posted by uwApoligist

Cut healthcare by 40%.  Cut Pensions by 40% going forward.  Cut Eduction by 40%.  Cut Welfare by 40%.  Cut Protection by 40%, Cut Transportation by 40%.  Cut General Government by 40%.  Cut Other Spending by 40%.  Year 1.


Sure.  All the programs that hurt the bottom 50% (if not more) of Americans.  None of this will hurt the top 10%, yet you want to give them a 30% tax cut.  Sweet for them.  Sucks for most of the Trump voters.  But they still haven't picked up on that yet.  Trump is actually their worst nightmare.  That's what make it kind of humorous.

__________________
"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable," - John F. Kennedy
EarlyGrayce

Registered:
Posts: 4,678
Reply with quote  #21 
Links please.
__________________
"Oh yeah and the 8 agency heaDS THAT SPLIT THE uRANIUM oNE MONEY WITH THE cLINTONS. yOU ARE A NEVER ENDING SOURCE OF WISHFUL THINKING. wISHING THINGS HAPPEN THE WAY YOU NEED THEM TO TO BACK UP YOUR RIDICULOUS CONCLUSIONS."
uwApoligist

Registered:
Posts: 7,523
Reply with quote  #22 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheNarrator


It's comical because your story changes from one day to the next.  First, when it told to you Trump may be working with the dems, it was "no tax cuts for anyone".  Later, that switches to "30% across the board."  I am sure whatever number Trump decides on will be heavily lauded by you and you will continue to attack anyone that doesn't agree.

Nope.  Story today and in the future will be the same.  Get debt down.  Spending cuts first.  Then tax cuts.   My no tax cuts statement were clear.  No tax cuts today, until the debt is worked down.

__________________
Who gives a F if the japs are listening to her blathering about women's issues?  
EarlyGrayce

Registered:
Posts: 4,678
Reply with quote  #23 
The debt will never be meaningfully reduced. It will continue to follow an overall climbing trend (officially past 20T now). At some point we will have to declare banko. Or let hyperinflation declare it for us. We run the monetary facets of this country like children with no perspective would.
__________________
"Oh yeah and the 8 agency heaDS THAT SPLIT THE uRANIUM oNE MONEY WITH THE cLINTONS. yOU ARE A NEVER ENDING SOURCE OF WISHFUL THINKING. wISHING THINGS HAPPEN THE WAY YOU NEED THEM TO TO BACK UP YOUR RIDICULOUS CONCLUSIONS."
uwApoligist

Registered:
Posts: 7,523
Reply with quote  #24 
Quote:
Originally Posted by EarlyGrayce
The debt will never be meaningfully reduced. It will continue to follow an overall climbing trend (officially past 20T now). At some point we will have to declare banko. Or let hyperinflation declare it for us. We run the monetary facets of this country like children with no perspective would.

banko in the past = war.   Not some of the time, everytime.  Sometimes the affected parties tried to Tariff their way to payments, but it always devolved to war.

__________________
Who gives a F if the japs are listening to her blathering about women's issues?  
Fresh

Registered:
Posts: 2,508
Reply with quote  #25 
Quote:
Originally Posted by uwApoligist

Nope.  Story today and in the future will be the same.  Get debt down.  Spending cuts first.  Then tax cuts.   My no tax cuts statement were clear.  No tax cuts today, until the debt is worked down.
]

Ok, how about cuts first, grow the economy while gradually reducing spending. Your 40% across the board would lead to mass loss of jobs and lower the tax base. Less taxes, fewer jobs, disaster.
uwApoligist

Registered:
Posts: 7,523
Reply with quote  #26 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fresh
]

Ok, how about cuts first, grow the economy while gradually reducing spending. Your 40% across the board would lead to mass loss of jobs and lower the tax base. Less taxes, fewer jobs, disaster.

That is the idea.  remove ton's of federal soul sucking largess.  

Last year we spent $432B to carry that debt.  Without that we could almost double our spending on welfare, and not raise taxes a cent. 

Economy keeps rolling and you can bet that interest rate will jump quickly.  That $432B will easily double, if not triple.    Why not get that down and avoid those expenses?

from: https://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/reports/ir/ir_expense.htm

 

__________________
Who gives a F if the japs are listening to her blathering about women's issues?  
Fresh

Registered:
Posts: 2,508
Reply with quote  #27 
Whack. Hit it out of the park.
woody

Registered:
Posts: 9,009
Reply with quote  #28 
If base line budgeting was not allowed, and future expenditures were capped at a rate not to exceed the prior years inflation rate, there would be a slow but steady reduction in deficit spending and the national debt could slowly be paid down. The approach of increasing federal spending per department at a fixed rate higher than that of inflation is untenable.
__________________
Rats flee from the sinking vessel. They traverse nimbly upon a rope, safely cleated to the dock, that is private enterprise. Socialism is dead, and tits up in the water. A bloated, death show, for rubberneckers of all classes to view.

"IT'S GOOD TO BE DA KING"
Fresh

Registered:
Posts: 2,508
Reply with quote  #29 
I agree that we have to cut spending, but a 40%, across the board cut would be devastating to the economy. Do you cut pensions 40% to all ex government employees? 40% on the Defense budget? Paying down the debt will take years, requiring a prosperous economic environment in the private sector. Drastically cutting government spending will do the opposite.
pabar61

Registered:
Posts: 11,027
Reply with quote  #30 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fresh
I agree that we have to cut spending, but a 40%, across the board cut would be devastating to the economy. Do you cut pensions 40% to all ex government employees? 40% on the Defense budget? Paying down the debt will take years, requiring a prosperous economic environment in the private sector. Drastically cutting government spending will do the opposite.


If you cut the price of something by 40%, and that results in a quadrupling of sales, have you cut your gross receipts by 40%?
Previous Topic | Next Topic
Print
Reply

Quick Navigation:

Easily create a Forum Website with Website Toolbox.