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uwApoligist

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Reply with quote  #1 
Dimon makes some great points.  Definitely worth reading.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2017/08/30/spur-lagging-competition-industry-growth-america-needs-tackle-tax-reform/612713001/

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uwApoligist

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Reply with quote  #2 
Americans spend more on taxes than they do on food and clothing combined.  How can we let that happen?
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pabar61

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Reply with quote  #3 
Quote:
Originally Posted by uwApoligist
Americans spend more on taxes than they do on food and clothing combined.  How can we let that happen?


The slow slide to socialism.
uwApoligist

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Since Fresh brought it up.  The economy faces some challenges this fall.  Of course the number one challenge is OdummerCare
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Fresh

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Dead issue. They'll have to repair, not repeal and replace. Trump doesn't play well with others. Tax cuts and reform will be #1, followed by the budget. Tax cuts better not be just for the wealthy, dems won't let it happen. 
uwApoligist

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Reply with quote  #6 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fresh
Dead issue. They'll have to repair, not repeal and replace. Trump doesn't play well with others. Tax cuts and reform will be #1, followed by the budget. Tax cuts better not be just for the wealthy, dems won't let it happen. 

Maybe them others you speak of will be the ones that have to go.  American people elected Trump.  They hate odummercare.  When they get their bills in the fall, going to hate it even more.  When Trump lays it out for them, the reason they cant get jobs, get good pay, educate their kids is because odummercare.  They are will understand and act accordingly.  Good night lefties.

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uwApoligist

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Reply with quote  #7 
You think it is ok for Americans to pay more in taxes than they do on food?  Or on clothing?


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spazsdad

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Reply with quote  #8 
The left longs for the pre Reagan tax rates, perhaps even higher
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pabar61

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Reply with quote  #9 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fresh
Dead issue. They'll have to repair, not repeal and replace. Trump doesn't play well with others. Tax cuts and reform will be #1, followed by the budget. Tax cuts better not be just for business owners, dems won't let it happen. 


FIFY
keepinitreal

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Reply with quote  #10 
Quote:
Originally Posted by uwApoligist
Americans spend more on taxes than they do on food and clothing combined.  How can we let that happen?


Washington Way is what joisey said

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"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
woody

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Reply with quote  #11 
Ok, I own two small businesses and I have developed some really strong opinions on taxation. I know it's just speculation and fantasy but hear me out.

If you want a complete revolution and overhaul of tax laws this is the most brutal, and quickest way to do it. Stop employer withholding on the employee portion of all payroll taxes. Require individual employees to both report and pay their own portion of taxes on a weekly, monthly or quarterly basis. Employers will continue to pay the employer portion of SS and Medicare, but individuals would be required to be responsible for, and send in their portion of SS, Medicare, and ALL Federal income tax, not the employer. This would accomplish major tax reform and a restructuring of government in less than one business quarter.

Second opinion, change individual withholding rates through the tax code, and 941 reporting. Call it a 10% flat tax, simplified tax. Each individual gets a 25k exemption, each dependent child 10k. Single gets the first 25k Married with 2 kids gets you 70k exemption. A family of 4 making 100k pays 3k. No other deductions. If you are low income you continue to pay no income taxes, but the Earned Income Tax Credit is also eliminated. No free ride.

Company and Corparate taxes are easy as well. Any and all purchases, and expenses are deductible. It doesn't matter if it is a new facility, equipment, vehicles, 3 martini lunch, a luxury box, or a corporate deer lease. It's deductible off the gross Income. After all expenses, and I mean every chunk of cash you throw into the economy, the Federal government gets 10%.

Most importantly, all international assets held by American owned companies is allowed to be repatriated into US controlled banks at a one time tax of 3%. All the companies that moved their corporate headquarters offshore will suddenly see a reason to relocate their HQ back from offshore islands, and reinvest in OUR economy. Manufacturing in the United States would suddenly become a viable option.




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Fresh

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Reply with quote  #12 
All good points. I personally doubt that companies pay taxes at all. Any cost of doing business is just passed on to the consumer. I would support a flat tax on sales with a sliding scale of percentages based on necessity. Luxury cars taxed at a higher rate than clothes. Takes care of under the radar businesses. Not as simple as it sounds, but would probably be fairer in the long run. Food might not be taxed at all to help the poor. 
mikec

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Woody - couldn't agree more.

People have no idea how much they pay, because it's done for them.  If they had to do it themselves, they'd be shocked.

Fair tax is the way to go.  It is, in effect, a national sales tax, with exemptions and such to limit regressiveness (though libs will still complain that it's regressive). 

Abolish the IRS.  Their power is beyond stupid.  They can take your assets w/o cause, and then bankrupt you as you fight for years to get them back.  Not to mention them picking winners and losers.

Fair tax makes everyone pay something, in relation to what they spend, which theoretically is a function of what they earn.

The time has come for that and no more IRS.

The sad thing is that, like Ocare, nothing will get done.
pabar61

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Reply with quote  #14 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fresh
All good points. I personally doubt that companies pay taxes at all. Any cost of doing business is just passed on to the consumer. I would support a flat tax on sales with a sliding scale of percentages based on necessity. Luxury cars taxed at a higher rate than clothes. Takes care of under the radar businesses. Not as simple as it sounds, but would probably be fairer in the long run. Food might not be taxed at all to help the poor. 


I'm a CFO at a tech company and I've worked in many businesses.  You couldn't be more wrong.  In addition to corporate income tax, they pay their share of employee taxes, local taxes, and a number of other fees depending on what industry they are in.  This whole liberal tripe about businesses never paying taxes is complete BS and makes you look very stupid.
uwApoligist

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Reply with quote  #15 
People are arguing that they should go back to taxpayers writing checks to the government directly.  Most people have no idea how much of their pay goes to the government.  If they were directly involved in writing that check, they will be more involved.  That is a good thing.

Dismantling the IRS, reducing unnecessary government bureaucracy would be a great thing for the US.   Definitely support the fair tax.

Certainly the democrats would understand if the Republicans just outright dismantled the IRS, after the Democrats used the IRS to unfairly attach conservative groups. 


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uwApoligist

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Reply with quote  #16 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pabar61


I'm a CFO at a tech company and I've worked in many businesses.  You couldn't be more wrong.  In addition to corporate income tax, they pay their share of employee taxes, local taxes, and a number of other fees depending on what industry they are in.  This whole liberal tripe about businesses never paying taxes is complete BS and makes you look very stupid.

Liberals want to know why people laugh at them, this is it.  "My feelz tell me companies don't pay taxes.  Not going to let facts get in the way of that!"

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spazsdad

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Reply with quote  #17 
Never happen. Could you imagine the cluster F when large numbers of people never sent in their taxes. Not out of protest just because they would spend it all first and not have any left. Then there would have to be a huge network of collectors running around chasing people for money they don't have. Next step would be the "compassionate liberals" saying it's not fair that these poor people have to pay when they are struggling to just get by what with their cell phone bill, cable bill, car payment, big screen TV. The rich should just pay more to help them out.
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mikec

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Reply with quote  #18 
That's why we need the Fair Tax.  It's simple, no BS, everybody pays, and there's no IRS to exercise unconstitutional search and seizure.

And, no way to cry BS about corporate giveaways vs the common man.  Everyone pays.
uwApoligist

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Reply with quote  #19 
In 2010 numbers it costs employers $2.47 to be able to give an employee $1.00.  That is an additional $1.47 in taxes the employer must come up with to pay that person. 

[1025_employment-costs-table_460] 

source: https://www.forbes.com/2010/10/27/reagon-government-spending-financial-advisor-network-taxes-muhlenkamp.html

BTW if you find a way to reduce those taxes, you will create jobs like crazy.  That is what Reagan did!

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Fresh

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Reply with quote  #20 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pabar61


I'm a CFO at a tech company and I've worked in many businesses.  You couldn't be more wrong.  In addition to corporate income tax, they pay their share of employee taxes, local taxes, and a number of other fees depending on what industry they are in.  This whole liberal tripe about businesses never paying taxes is complete BS and makes you look very stupid.


Do you ever finish jumping to conclusions before reading an entire comment? I didn't say they don't pay taxes. I said, in essence they don't really pay taxes.........because those taxes are just passed on to the consumer. Then I supported the fair tax. Quit assuming you know what people think, what people are going to do and foremost, what I am thinking and going to do. No wonder you don't get it. You'll listen to an entire piece of sh1t tirade by man in a care that talked to a lady, but won't trust the New York Times. Geesh!
PDad

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Reply with quote  #21 
Quote:
Originally Posted by uwApoligist
In 2010 numbers it costs employers $2.47 to be able to give an employee $1.00.  That is an additional $1.47 in taxes the employer must come up with to pay that person. 

[1025_employment-costs-table_460] 

Very misleading.

- Numbers in table don't match numbers in article used for calculations. They indicate $2.12.

As you can see, for the employee to take home $32,220 it costs the employer $73,201.88. Specifically, for my son to take home $1, it costs me (his employer) $2.27. So he must produce $2.47–the 20 cents is my return for hiring him. In fact, the average profit to payroll in the U.S. economy is 10% to 11%.

- $2.47 includes an expected 20 cents return for hiring him - that's not a cost. A marginal overhead charge would be appropriate.

- HC and pension are part of employees' total compensation, so it should appear on both sides.
67,092 / (31,610 + 13,675 + 10,000) = $1.21
PDad

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Reply with quote  #22 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fresh
Do you ever finish jumping to conclusions before reading an entire comment? I didn't say they don't pay taxes. I said, in essence they don't really pay taxes.........because those taxes are just passed on to the consumer. Then I supported the fair tax...

You should be clearer in statements you make - e.g. I doubt xxx because yyy. 

Typical Lib belief that businesses can simply raise prices to cover add'l costs imposed by government. SMH
pabar61

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Reply with quote  #23 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fresh


Do you ever finish jumping to conclusions before reading an entire comment? I didn't say they don't pay taxes. I said, in essence they don't really pay taxes.........because those taxes are just passed on to the consumer. Then I supported the fair tax. Quit assuming you know what people think, what people are going to do and foremost, what I am thinking and going to do. No wonder you don't get it. You'll listen to an entire piece of sh1t tirade by man in a care that talked to a lady, but won't trust the New York Times. Geesh!


No - do you read your own posts?  Here is your quote:

I personally doubt that companies pay taxes at all. Any cost of doing business is just passed on to the consumer.

The first sentence and the second sentence in no way lead the reader to believe that you think companies pay taxes.  If I didn't understand your post it's because you did a really sh1tty job of explaining yourself.
Fresh

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Reply with quote  #24 
So it's my fault you read the first sentence and went off? The second sentence clearly explains the first. I would suggest you did a really sh1tty job of trying to understand what I was saying. You would prefer a confrontation with a libtard. 
uwApoligist

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Reply with quote  #25 
When competing in an international marketplace, like we are today.  Taxes are not just passed onto consumers. 
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pabar61

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Reply with quote  #26 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fresh
So it's my fault you read the first sentence and went off? The second sentence clearly explains the first. I would suggest you did a really sh1tty job of trying to understand what I was saying. You would prefer a confrontation with a libtard. 


Not at all.  In my opinion, most readers would say that the second sentence has little to do with the first.  I'm not in it for confrontation but I won't let a lib say something that is obviously false.
uwApoligist

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Reply with quote  #27 
Quote:
Originally Posted by PDad

Very misleading.

- Numbers in table don't match numbers in article used for calculations. They indicate $2.12.

As you can see, for the employee to take home $32,220 it costs the employer $73,201.88. Specifically, for my son to take home $1, it costs me (his employer) $2.27. So he must produce $2.47–the 20 cents is my return for hiring him. In fact, the average profit to payroll in the U.S. economy is 10% to 11%.

- $2.47 includes an expected 20 cents return for hiring him - that's not a cost. A marginal overhead charge would be appropriate.

- HC and pension are part of employees' total compensation, so it should appear on both sides.
67,092 / (31,610 + 13,675 + 10,000) = $1.21

What makes HC a benefit and FICA and Medicare taxes?  Pretend for a second that I am not an over politicized supreme court. 

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Fresh

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Reply with quote  #28 
You would probably say that, but you'd be wrong.
uwApoligist

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Reply with quote  #29 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fresh
You would probably say that, but you'd be wrong.

Nope.  I read it the same way.

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PDad

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Reply with quote  #30 
Quote:
Originally Posted by uwApoligist
What makes HC a benefit and FICA and Medicare taxes?  Pretend for a second that I am not an over politicized supreme court. 

HC is a benefit for that specific employee while FICA taxes, which includes Medicare, support beneficiaries in general - the money is not put in a separate acct for each taxpayer. Lower income people receive more FICA benefits than they contributed towards and higher income people receive less than what they could have gotten for what they contributed.

While there is an employer mandate, there are numerous exemptions from it. Workers that don't get HC through their employer have to procure it on their own - usually/often with after-tax income. Fewer exemptions from paying FICA.
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