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JoiseyGuy

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Reply with quote  #151 
PGP - You are a bright fellow.  Please explain to me how overdependence on the Nanny State, and overregulation have led to the largest gap in history between rich and poor in our nation and a huge national debt.  While you are at it, would you explain to me just what the impact of corporate outsourcing and downsizing has been on unemployment?  Also, can you explain the wisdom of lowering taxes, especially to the wealthy, during the time of a war which costs billions in a short period of time?   
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"Freethinkers are those who are willing to use their minds without prejudice and without fearing to understand things that clash with their own customs, privileges, or beliefs. This state of mind is not common, but it is essential for right thinking. Where it is absent discussion is apt to become worse than useless." Leo Tolstoy

"Do not try to teach pigs to sing. It will frustrate you and infuriate the pigs who will unite in anger against you, and you will never achieve singing your song". Dr. Petersen
oldscout

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Reply with quote  #152 
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703374304575622791171310532.html?mod=rss_whats_news_us
This does a lot better job versus my ramblings of explaining additional costs for UE. Surely while we can't let people go without,it is going to have a long term costs & really hurts future hiring..

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Terry Schneider
" Fear not tomorrow, God is already there ".
GoHawks

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Reply with quote  #153 

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoiseyGuy
PGP - You are a bright fellow.  Please explain to me how overdependence on the Nanny State, and overregulation have led to the largest gap in history between rich and poor in our nation and a huge national debt.  While you are at it, would you explain to me just what the impact of corporate outsourcing and downsizing has been on unemployment?  Also, can you explain the wisdom of lowering taxes, especially to the wealthy, during the time of a war which costs billions in a short period of time?   

Please ignore him.  He's offensive, obnoxious and disturbing.  If the board had a moderator he'd been gone a long time ago.  The initial question on this thread is why more people don't talk politics on this board.  Having to filter out his crap (and a couple other's) is why I don't come here often.
Dewey

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Reply with quote  #154 

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoiseyGuy
PGP - Please explain to me how overdependence on the Nanny State, and overregulation have led to the largest gap in history between rich and poor in our nation and a huge national debt.   

Census finds record gap between rich and poor Americans


PatGillickProtege

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Reply with quote  #155 
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoHawks

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoiseyGuy
PGP - You are a bright fellow.  Please explain to me how overdependence on the Nanny State, and overregulation have led to the largest gap in history between rich and poor in our nation and a huge national debt.  While you are at it, would you explain to me just what the impact of corporate outsourcing and downsizing has been on unemployment?  Also, can you explain the wisdom of lowering taxes, especially to the wealthy, during the time of a war which costs billions in a short period of time?   

Please ignore him.  He's offensive, obnoxious and disturbing.  If the board had a moderator he'd been gone a long time ago.  The initial question on this thread is why more people don't talk politics on this board.  Having to filter out his crap (and a couple other's) is why I don't come here often.

Then leave. No one's forcing you to stick around.  If you think I'm offensive, obnoxious, & disturbing maybe that's how everybody else feels about you also.


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Keep 'em moving Colonel, a man that eloquent has to be saved.
JackDandy

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Reply with quote  #156 
JG, companies out source because the cost of production is cheaper elsewhere. Two things that drive up the cost of production in America are Unions (through unreasonably high wages and pensions) and government (through taxes and regulations).
I know you prefer to believe that it is because of corporate greed, but unions and government are even more responsible for American companies outsourcing and American workers losing jobs.


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When Communism comes to America it will be wrapped in an empty suit and promising hope and change.

Jack Dandy
Dewey

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Reply with quote  #157 

Quote:
Originally Posted by oldscout

This does a lot better job versus my ramblings of explaining additional costs for UE. Surely while we can't let people go without, it is going to have a long term costs & really hurts future hiring.


oldscout - If we extend the Bush tax rates and let a high earner keep an extra $300/week that would otherwise be tax revenues, it helps the economy.  If we give an unemployed $300/week that would otherwise be government funds, it hurts the economy.  Please explain.
PatGillickProtege

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Reply with quote  #158 

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoiseyGuy
PGP - You are a bright fellow.  Please explain to me how overdependence on the Nanny State, and overregulation have led to the largest gap in history between rich and poor in our nation and a huge national debt.  While you are at it, would you explain to me just what the impact of corporate outsourcing and downsizing has been on unemployment?  Also, can you explain the wisdom of lowering taxes, especially to the wealthy, during the time of a war which costs billions in a short period of time?   

JG - pay attention because I'm not going to repeat it.
Extension of Bush Tax Cuts at Jan 1, 2011 - A) if you don't extend it for those who make over $250,000/yr - that's $700 Billion.
B) If you don't extend it for those who make under $250,000/yr - that's $2 Trillion.

We want to keep our money and not have to fork it over to a government who is pissing it away. That's freedom. We keep our money. We use it the way we see fit. Government can go eff itself.

Maybe you want to give up your's and your wife's Social Security every month and give it to someone in more need than you are who prefers a salary than an unemployment check. You're already getting a NJ school teacher's pension so that's enough you can live on.

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Keep 'em moving Colonel, a man that eloquent has to be saved.
oldscout

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Reply with quote  #159 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewey

Quote:
Originally Posted by oldscout

This does a lot better job versus my ramblings of explaining additional costs for UE. Surely while we can't let people go without, it is going to have a long term costs & really hurts future hiring.



oldscout - If we extend the Bush tax rates and let a high earner keep an extra $300/week that would otherwise be tax revenues, it helps the economy.  If we give an unemployed $300/week that would otherwise be government funds, it hurts the economy.  Please explain.
To begin, I don't think I have EVER said we should not extend UE benefits, i have said we need to pay for them instead of borrowing money[especially when we have it in stimulus or TARP] I have said there are ramifications,especially down the road[I posted article to make them more clear]. I do think that extending benefits will stimulate the economy if money is not borrowed,but it will slow hiring & be an added cost to employers & states.

I guess if the article doesn't make that clear, there is no way for me to do so.

On the $300 for the RICH[],you are assuming that they will not spend it or I guess invest it overseas[ I know the senario], I say they will spend it or invest it in their businesses.
All I have ever seen you suggest is to borrow & spend. If they would decide to not extend the BUSH tax cuts for the over $250K rich,would you demand every bit of the revenue from that gos toward lowering the deficit or would you prefer to spend it? Silly question,I take it back.

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Terry Schneider
" Fear not tomorrow, God is already there ".
JoiseyGuy

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Reply with quote  #160 
PGP - Yes, I guess that my wife and I could live on $38,000 per year (my wife taught in a parochial school and will receive her reward in heaven, but a pittance on earth for retirement) as long as I didn't have bills to pay, medical bills,  gasoline to buy, food to purchase, clothes to buy, a car to take care of, and have a little left over for recreation in our old age. That lifestyle, frankly, doesn't appeal to me after 32 years of work in the public sector during which we paid into social security and supported our federal and local and state governments with our taxes (we still pay those taxes).                                                                                                
Because we have been frugal and never lived beyond our means, we own our house so we don't have a mortgage and we sent three children through university  (one of them thinks like you - where did we go wrong?) .  Our regular bills in a normal month come to $2,503.02.  In some months the total is higher because of house insurance, municipal taxes, car insurance, 1040 ES taxes, pest control, car repair, lawn service, house repairs, and flights.  The yearly total of those "extras" is approximately $9500.00.                                                                                     

If we didn't spend another penny (your wish for the elderly with your big capitalist self serving heart), that would mean that we would have an income of $38,000.00 and an outlay of $39,536.00.  Note that none of this is frivolous.  We do spend at Christmas time for our grandchildren, and fly to see them once per year (I guess that we could cut this out and send them a card).  Those are monthly bills without recreation or eating out or having friends in for dinner.                                                                                                         

I'm sure that you personally would just love to live this way in your old age or have your hard working parents live on this in retirement.  Instead of leaning on old folks like us who have served our citizenship well, why don't you devote a larger portion of your lofty income (I would assume from your attitude that you have one plus hearty investments) to paying off the debt incurred by your brethren in politics and economics in their last 8 years of "public service".    

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"Freethinkers are those who are willing to use their minds without prejudice and without fearing to understand things that clash with their own customs, privileges, or beliefs. This state of mind is not common, but it is essential for right thinking. Where it is absent discussion is apt to become worse than useless." Leo Tolstoy

"Do not try to teach pigs to sing. It will frustrate you and infuriate the pigs who will unite in anger against you, and you will never achieve singing your song". Dr. Petersen
woody

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Reply with quote  #161 
JG, if all the tax cuts expire, the lowest income earners will have the highest tax increase. about a 15% jump if I am correct in my calculations. 
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PatGillickProtege

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Reply with quote  #162 
JG - Talk about vitriole. My "lofty" income & "hearty" investments are for me to spend as I see fit.  What you get for one year is about what I paid for my fiancee Tatiana's engagement ring. Our 2 salaries excluding our investments, which we haven't touched, gives us the opportunity to have a house built on a property I own.  It gives Tatiana the wearwithall to go shopping at Bergdorf Goodman, Neiman Marcus, or Lord & Taylor if she so chooses.  And I can do with going to a JosA.Bank if I needed clothing.  We have car insurance for 3 cars which is about $300 a month.  Rent in a nice 3 bedroom apartment of $1841/month.  Transportation costs of $154 monthly for us both.  Monthly groceries average about $400.  Cell phone family plan 6 phones plus 2 internet connections plus cable about $1000/month.  Electricity $90 each month.  That's $3,785 each month.  We're not even talking about trips or presents or any incidentals like basketball tickets or a saturday date night dinner.  And we haven't even gotten around to costing out a wedding of 250 people.  So the more we make the more we will have to spend on us not on giving more to the government.

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Keep 'em moving Colonel, a man that eloquent has to be saved.
oldscout

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Reply with quote  #163 
Here is some thoughts I have from some of my readings today;
  " Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine & puts them into practice is a wise man who built his house on the rock. The rain came down, the streams rose, & the winds blew & beat against the house;yet it did not fall because it had a foundation on the rock. But everyone who hears these words of mine & does not put them into practice is like a foolish man who built his house on sand. The rain came down, the streams rose & the winds blew & beat against the house, & it fell with a great crash."
I know some of you don't like for scripture to be quoted,but I think this has some application to our talks & is good advice either way.
The Bible is saying we need to build our house on the rock: to hear the words of Jesus & put them into practice.
Government & politicians have an goal for our society being a free one,both prosperous & healthy for all. The problem is that NO GOVERNMENT can supply the qualities of compassion for your fellow being,Honesty & personal responsibility that must be part of the support.
Sure, we have all those about us preaching & promoting all the good virtues & what they can do for us ,"if we only sign on with them". I say most of them are building a house on sand & unless we demonstrate a different way of living , one contrary to the culture around us,we will in the end fall & crash.
We can't continue to take part in the message we see about us every day[ tv,paper,media] of Consume! Join In! ENJOY!
By the way,the great passage is from Matthew 7:24-27.
I post things like this because I feel the need to do so.

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Terry Schneider
" Fear not tomorrow, God is already there ".
JoiseyGuy

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Reply with quote  #164 
PGP - My heartiest congratulations on having achieved one measure of success.  It is good because it is so meaningful to you, perhaps even defines you to yourself.  My congratulations to you on your engagement and my best wishes to your lady.  

While you revel in your achievements, please make sure that you remember those who went before you and helped to make those achievements possible. My one offspring has this strange idea that he has"made it" all by himself.  He has the big house and fancy car that he's always wanted.  His "toys" are very important to him. 

 Unfortunately, sometimes they interfere with the human values that he was taught in our home.  My wife and I thank our parents every day for giving us the opportunity to move up in the socio-economic chain while keeping a good eye on who and what we are as people, and who and what others are.  Yes, we did something with the opportunity, but they opened the doors for us.  It's a perspective best not lost I think.     

__________________
"Freethinkers are those who are willing to use their minds without prejudice and without fearing to understand things that clash with their own customs, privileges, or beliefs. This state of mind is not common, but it is essential for right thinking. Where it is absent discussion is apt to become worse than useless." Leo Tolstoy

"Do not try to teach pigs to sing. It will frustrate you and infuriate the pigs who will unite in anger against you, and you will never achieve singing your song". Dr. Petersen
oldscout

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Reply with quote  #165 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoiseyGuy
PGP - My heartiest congratulations on having achieved one measure of success.  It is good because it is so meaningful to you, perhaps even defines you to yourself.  My congratulations to you on your engagement and my best wishes to your lady.  

While you revel in your achievements, please make sure that you remember those who went before you and helped to make those achievements possible. My one offspring has this strange idea that he has"made it" all by himself.  He has the big house and fancy car that he's always wanted.  His "toys" are very important to him. 

 Unfortunately, sometimes they interfere with the human values that he was taught in our home.  My wife and I thank our parents every day for giving us the opportunity to move up in the socio-economic chain while keeping a good eye on who and what we are as people, and who and what others are.  Yes, we did something with the opportunity, but they opened the doors for us.  It's a perspective best not lost I think.     
Very kind of you-JG, you are a good man.

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Terry Schneider
" Fear not tomorrow, God is already there ".
PatGillickProtege

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Reply with quote  #166 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoiseyGuy
PGP - My heartiest congratulations on having achieved one measure of success.  It is good because it is so meaningful to you, perhaps even defines you to yourself.  My congratulations to you on your engagement and my best wishes to your lady.  

While you revel in your achievements, please make sure that you remember those who went before you and helped to make those achievements possible. My one offspring has this strange idea that he has"made it" all by himself.  He has the big house and fancy car that he's always wanted.  His "toys" are very important to him. 

 Unfortunately, sometimes they interfere with the human values that he was taught in our home.  My wife and I thank our parents every day for giving us the opportunity to move up in the socio-economic chain while keeping a good eye on who and what we are as people, and who and what others are.  Yes, we did something with the opportunity, but they opened the doors for us.  It's a perspective best not lost I think.     

Thank you JG. Really thank you. No sarcastic comment. Those thank yous are genuine.

Your son sounds like a guy we'd like to have in our Fantasy Football League. Our "toys" are very important to us.  I can't do without my Mercury Mountaineer SUV. That's my toy. It's not like I can go back to driving a Honda Accord or Toyota Camry or Chevy Monte Carlo.  You think it didn't pain me and my bank account giving Tatiana an engagement ring that cost me buying a new Ford Explorer all suped up?  I wanted to barf up a lung knowing what I was paying for that engagement ring.  For all those single guys out there - marriage is an expensive way of getting laundry done for free.  I just enjoy having money in my account that I can reach into and grab whenever I want for whatever I want.  So I say for the government to keep it's grubby paws out of my pockets and take it out of the OVERPAID A-HOLE POLITICIANS who have been sucking on the public tit for TOO long.

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swifty

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Reply with quote  #167 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoiseyGuy
PGP - My heartiest congratulations on having achieved one measure of success.  It is good because it is so meaningful to you, perhaps even defines you to yourself.  My congratulations to you on your engagement and my best wishes to your lady.  

While you revel in your achievements, please make sure that you remember those who went before you and helped to make those achievements possible. My one offspring has this strange idea that he has"made it" all by himself.  He has the big house and fancy car that he's always wanted.  His "toys" are very important to him. 

 Unfortunately, sometimes they interfere with the human values that he was taught in our home.  My wife and I thank our parents every day for giving us the opportunity to move up in the socio-economic chain while keeping a good eye on who and what we are as people, and who and what others are.  Yes, we did something with the opportunity, but they opened the doors for us.  It's a perspective best not lost I think.     

Joisey

I think you need to cut PGP some slack.  Just because he is proud of his accomplishments and enjoys the fruits of his labor, does not mean that he is not a charitable person.  I could be wrong, but I seem to remember more than one post where PGP has describe his philanthropic endeavors.  The problem is that you and others like you automatically assume that the very rich do not give their fair share (and much more) to charitable causes.   They very much do care about their fellow man and those less fortunate.  You demonize the wealthy as if all they do is spend on themselves without giving to others.  If I made $2,000,000 per year pre tax, bought myself a 10,000 sq. ft home, bought 3 Mercedes Benz', a boat and another vacation home, but also gave $250,000 a year to charity, does the fact that I have money left over to save and invest for myself and my children make me a bad guy?  In your opinion have I not given enough?  When is enough, enough? Wealthy people should not have to give away every dime left over after providing for themselves and their family to not be looked down upon by you or those less fortunate.
PatGillickProtege

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Reply with quote  #168 

Swifty - I ain't rich. That's for sure. And I'd have $58K more in my pocket if I didn't dish out tuition for my goddaughter at Pace Univ for the past 5 years and then pocket money, living essentials and 1st & last month's rent for her apartment in NYC.  And Tatiana makes more $ than I do.  You know what I could have done with the extra $58K in my pocket?  I could have bought a lifetime pass to the Playboy Mansion to hang out with Brandie Moses, Kelley Cabbana, Lindsey Knight, Olivia Paige & Tina Jordan in the Grotto. That's certainly worth $58K.


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Keep 'em moving Colonel, a man that eloquent has to be saved.
swifty

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Reply with quote  #169 
PGP

It doesn't matter if you're rich or not.  If you make enough money to take care of yourself, buy yourself the "toys" that you deserve by working hard and still give to charity over and above what you pay in government mandated taxes, that's all anyone one should ask of you.  No one has the right to look down upon you because in their eyes you flaunt what you have earned.  
swifty

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Reply with quote  #170 
This is a very sore subject for me.  The wealthy are the most generous people there are.  Why is voluntary giving to charity  and the needy not good enough for some of you?  Why do some of you believe that the government must take from the wealthy and be the ones to decide where it should go?  Are you that indoctrinated that you really believe that the government knows better? 
PatGillickProtege

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Reply with quote  #171 

Swifty - why don't we find out how much our cheapskate President & Vice President have contributed to charity the last 6 years in Washington DC. I'm sure it's not even close to what former Presidents Bush, Clinton & Bush have contributed. And Bill Clinton does contribute to local economies - he goes to strip joints and pays strippers (mostly college girls) so he's contributing to the local economy and helping some girl get thru college.


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Keep 'em moving Colonel, a man that eloquent has to be saved.
JoiseyGuy

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Reply with quote  #172 
PGP - There is a movie currently on TV entitled "The Bucket List".  I would recommend that you see it. I think it's a good one.    
__________________
"Freethinkers are those who are willing to use their minds without prejudice and without fearing to understand things that clash with their own customs, privileges, or beliefs. This state of mind is not common, but it is essential for right thinking. Where it is absent discussion is apt to become worse than useless." Leo Tolstoy

"Do not try to teach pigs to sing. It will frustrate you and infuriate the pigs who will unite in anger against you, and you will never achieve singing your song". Dr. Petersen
PatGillickProtege

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Reply with quote  #173 

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoiseyGuy
PGP - There is a movie currently on TV entitled "The Bucket List".  I would recommend that you see it. I think it's a good one.    

Every guy my age and younger wishes for that Lifetime Pass to the Playboy Mansion.  Now with an engagement, that dream of hanging out in the Grotto with Brandie Moses, Kelley Cabbana, Lindsey Knight, Olivia Paige & Tina Jordan is about 99% not happening.


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Keep 'em moving Colonel, a man that eloquent has to be saved.
JackDandy

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Reply with quote  #174 

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoiseyGuy
PGP - You are a bright fellow.  Please explain to me how overdependence on the Nanny State, and overregulation have led to the largest gap in history between rich and poor in our nation and a huge national debt.  While you are at it, would you explain to me just what the impact of corporate outsourcing and downsizing has been on unemployment?  Also, can you explain the wisdom of lowering taxes, especially to the wealthy, during the time of a war which costs billions in a short period of time?   

I repeat: JG, companies out source because the cost of production is cheaper elsewhere. Two things that drive up the cost of production in America are Unions (through unreasonably high wages and pensions) and government (through taxes and regulations).
I know you prefer to believe that it is because of corporate greed, but unions and government are even more responsible for American companies outsourcing and American workers losing jobs.



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When Communism comes to America it will be wrapped in an empty suit and promising hope and change.

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Dewey

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Reply with quote  #175 
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldscout
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewey
oldscout - If we extend the Bush tax rates and let a high earner keep an extra $300/week that would otherwise be tax revenues, it helps the economy.  If we give an unemployed $300/week that would otherwise be government funds, it hurts the economy.  Please explain.

To begin, I don't think I have EVER said we should not extend UE benefits, i have said we need to pay for them instead of borrowing moneyAll I have ever seen you suggest is to borrow & spend. If they would decide to not extend the BUSH tax cuts for the over $250K rich,would you demand every bit of the revenue from that gos toward lowering the deficit or would you prefer to spend it? Silly question,I take it back.


oldscout - I understand you are saying we should pay for UE benefits.  I hear you.  The point I'm trying to make is that extending benefits and extending tax cuts have the same effect on the deficit, they either help it or hurt it.  If one suggests paying for UE benefits and says nothing about paying for the tax cuts, it tells me this debate has little to do with economics and more to do with "what is fair".  Just say it if that's what you believe but couching one plan's cost around economics while ignoring the other plan in the news, (tax rate extension), leads me to believe the economic concern is a facade.

Now you asked me if I just want to spend or not pay for things.  I'll spell my thoughts out clearly and challenge you to address each one too.  Here goes...

1)  1999 and budget is balanced with surpluses projected.  Things are great and no changes are needed.

2)  9/11 followed by a recession and two wars.  I would ask for sacrifices through taxes to help pay for the wars and recession along with some borrowing.  There is no need to cut Government services to pay for this tragedy.

3)  Bush tax cuts are absolutely unnecessary and very costly.  I would not cut Government services to pay for them.  The election of a Democrat will be necessary to correct this problem.

4)  A drug program for the elderly is a good idea and if other services could not be cut to make way for this program, then I'd definitely negate the Bush tax cuts to pay for it.

5)  A financial collapse and the bottom falls out.  It will take some short term borrowing to save us from a depression, allow for Government investment, and stimulate our GDP upward.  I see no reason to cut Government services to see us through this crisis.  If anything, some Government help is needed.

6)  Once we are on our feet and economy is significantly growing, Bush tax rates have expired, and we have a better idea what health cost savings we'll experience from the health reform bill, we'll have a better idea how long it will take to grow back into a balanced budget as in 1999.  Will revenues have to be found to make up for past war costs, etc.?  I don't know.  Should any Government spending be growing faster than what is normal under a growing population?  No.

7)  Social Security and Medicare should be treated separately and balanced via means testing, a gradual increase in retirement age, SS tax increases, and other methods that will work.  While I tend to support the deficit commission's suggestions we hear about, I'd like to see the benefit cuts vs revenue raising become more equal than they appear to be.  But I think we are on the way towards some answers and I tend to support much of the commissions suggestions.

I am against new programs that can't be paid for and I think Obama agrees.  In fact, no Democrat has been proposing any, (emergency stimulus spending aside), in over a decade...I think.  OK, your turn.  (Now I know you may want to say I wouldn't have done x, y, and z, but since they were done, how would you have covered their costs?)  Thanks.
JoiseyGuy

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Reply with quote  #176 
George - I do believe that you and I have a basic difference in philosophy concerning the role of government in terms of the nation's wealth.  I believe that government should have a role in redistribution, and you believe in laissez faire capitalism (most of the "haves" do for obvious reasons).   The one point where we both would agree is that currently and for a number of years our government is doing a sloppy and wasteful job of dispersing our tax moneys to "entitlement" programs, and that oversight of those programs wavers between terrible and non existent, thus increasing the potential for corruption. In my mind, the theory is excellent, but the reality is marred.  In your mind the theory is a bad one.   .  
__________________
"Freethinkers are those who are willing to use their minds without prejudice and without fearing to understand things that clash with their own customs, privileges, or beliefs. This state of mind is not common, but it is essential for right thinking. Where it is absent discussion is apt to become worse than useless." Leo Tolstoy

"Do not try to teach pigs to sing. It will frustrate you and infuriate the pigs who will unite in anger against you, and you will never achieve singing your song". Dr. Petersen
oldscout

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Reply with quote  #177 
Dewey-On your last post,I agree with parts & not with others,I will try to get back in little more detail.
I do think we agree,we should start paying for things & probably the most urgent thing that needs to be handled RIGHT now is the UE benefits...so why not pay for them with funds available as suggested by the Republicans? Why borrow more money?
On the Bush taxes, not making a decision before Jan 1 will probably hurt the stock market some & make many out there unsure of the future,they can be handled after the first of the year if need be & probably in fact deserve more discussion in the public arena.
So what I would do right now is extend UE with funds from unspent stimulus,put an immediate freeze on any increased spending & get rid of AMT.Go forward into 2011 & work toward solving our problems.
I did notice no mention of hc.

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JoiseyGuy

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Reply with quote  #178 
George - I just told my wife that if I were your age and in your financial situation, I would probably think just like you, and she said that she didn't think so.  I do think that the influence of environment, including role models,  is very strong in developing life values.  For example, my very strong blue collar upbringing as a youngster and my working in an upper socio economic community have definitely influenced my views of socio economic levels in our nation.  Some to the manor born, and others to the factory born !!     
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PatGillickProtege

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Reply with quote  #179 

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoiseyGuy
George - I just told my wife that if I were your age and in your financial situation, I would probably think just like you, and she said that she didn't think so.  I do think that the influence of environment, including role models,  is very strong in developing life values.  For example, my very strong blue collar upbringing as a youngster and my working in an upper socio economic community have definitely influenced my views of socio economic levels in our nation.  Some to the manor born, and others to the factory born !!     

JG - role models?  Not my dad.  My grandfather.  My mom's dad had his jewelry store taken by the Communist.  He comes to Miami and rebuilds from scratch.  Puts a jewelry store down there even taking in his good-for-nothing brother as a partner.  Then he comes up to New York and puts another jewelry store for him and my grandmother alone.  And to boot he gets a job with the Omega Watch Company repairing watches and working till he was 70.  He didn't want to retire.  They upped and moved operations to Lancaster, PA.  For me he was a role model.  Not some athlete.  Not some greasy politician.  My gramps.  Building something from nothing just with the knowledge of what he had done previously.  Working 12-14 hour days.  Providing for his family.  He died almost 7 years ago at 88.  Worked his ass off.  What he left behind, he left for his wife, his 2 daughters, his 2 grandchildren.  So what I got from him and from what I earned I'm making my life and my future as comfortable as possible. And without government intervention so I say Redistribution sucks Moose C*ck.  Taxed Enough Already!


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Dewey

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Reply with quote  #180 

oldscout - There are many economists who want to add to stimulus not reduce it.  I have no idea what the hurdles are to change direction of previous stimulus monies.  Probably already directed and would require more hearings, debates, and votes to redirect.  That all takes significant time.  In any event, if you suggest we need to pay for UE benefits but not the extension of tax rates, then I'm lost in the logic. 

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