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cjs4585

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Reply with quote  #61 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wellduh
Isn’t Lopez like 35-1 in her 2 years at OU? That doesn’t sound like a #3 to me... 😂😂just sayin!


If you you're a good pitcher (which Lopez is) and you dont really pitch against anyone, you will win a lot.

Lopez' numbers the last 2 years combined against top 25 rpi : 18.1ip, 9 er, 3.47era). Doesnt come anywhere near the top #2s in 2018 wcws (Hanson fsu, Plain WA, Lowary OK, elish OR, Ocasio FL). I wasnt saying she was a conventional #3 but when you compare aginst those listed, she's not at that level.
MOJOERASER

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Reply with quote  #62 
Most OU fans will tell you that Lopez numbers were against lesser competition and were very much inflated. She was a number 1 pitcher out of high school but I pencilled her in as the number two behind Brooke anyhow. It’s really going to come down to who is pitching the best by the end of the season. Saile is atleast the number 2 but thinking she has more experience and probably will be a number 1. I knew OU was in the market for pitching just happy we have her.
RahOKU

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Reply with quote  #63 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cjs4585


If you you're a good pitcher (which Lopez is) and you dont really pitch against anyone, you will win a lot.

Lopez' numbers the last 2 years combined against top 25 rpi : 18.1ip, 9 er, 3.47era). Doesnt come anywhere near the top #2s in 2018 wcws (Hanson fsu, Plain WA, Lowary OK, elish OR, Ocasio FL). I wasnt saying she was a conventional #3 but when you compare aginst those listed, she's not at that level.


You may be right, but 18 IP over two seasons is a pretty small sample. That's not quite three games over two seasons -- which says more about the pitchers ahead of Mariah on the depth chart than it does about her ability. She'll get lots more chances in 2019.

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Oger

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Reply with quote  #64 
Lopez has improved each year so I expect her to be even better next year. I know Coach Gasso talked a lot about how much she has improved in her preseason presser.
Wellduh

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Reply with quote  #65 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cjs4585


If you you're a good pitcher (which Lopez is) and you dont really pitch against anyone, you will win a lot.

Lopez' numbers the last 2 years combined against top 25 rpi : 18.1ip, 9 er, 3.47era). Doesnt come anywhere near the top #2s in 2018 wcws (Hanson fsu, Plain WA, Lowary OK, elish OR, Ocasio FL). I wasnt saying she was a conventional #3 but when you compare aginst those listed, she's not at that level.


She’s not at that level!? Hmm, 🤔... Seems to me she didn’t get a lot of chances against the top 25’s... hard to make those type of assessments based on your numbers. If we took all these ladies back to 18 ip bet their numbers would be a little inflated. My point is that I think we may be pleasantly surprised by this young lady this season.
cjs4585

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Reply with quote  #66 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wellduh


She’s not at that level!? Hmm, 🤔... Seems to me she didn’t get a lot of chances against the top 25’s... hard to make those type of assessments based on your numbers. If we took all these ladies back to 18 ip bet their numbers would be a little inflated. My point is that I think we may be pleasantly surprised by this young lady this season.


Why do you suppose she didn't get more chances? Because she was so good but Gasso didn't like her? No, because there were 2 pitchers better on the team.

When she did get chances she had a decent era of 3.47 but that is not in the same universe as the pitchers I mentioned. As an example, Plain, from WA, had 21.1ip, 2er, .656era *in the WCWS*. In 2018 as a fr,, she had a 1.61 era against top 25 teams, in 77ip all-up. So, yeah she'd be a #3 on WA too, same with FL, FSU and OR.

She may he better this year, or we may find that she struggles under the increased role (assuming she has one). I will say this: when you see the movement and velocity on barnhill's rise, even though she was throwing it all over the shop as a fr, you know you have the makings of a dominant pitcher. Same with Parker's movement from the left, Lowary's raw velocity, Alvelo's rise, change combo, etc, etc. Lopez, from what I've seen so far, doesn't have that kind of stuff. She absolutely can get better though, so we'll see.

Wellduh

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Reply with quote  #67 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cjs4585


Why do you suppose she didn't get more chances? Because she was so good but Gasso didn't like her? No, because there were 2 pitchers better on the team.

When she did get chances she had a decent era of 3.47 but that is not in the same universe as the pitchers I mentioned. As an example, Plain, from WA, had 21.1ip, 2er, .656era *in the WCWS*. In 2018 as a fr,, she had a 1.61 era against top 25 teams, in 77ip all-up. So, yeah she'd be a #3 on WA too, same with FL, FSU and OR.

She may he better this year, or we may find that she struggles under the increased role (assuming she has one). I will say this: when you see the movement and velocity on barnhill's rise, even though she was throwing it all over the shop as a fr, you know you have the makings of a dominant pitcher. Same with Parker's movement from the left, Lowary's raw velocity, Alvelo's rise, change combo, etc, etc. Lopez, from what I've seen so far, doesn't have that kind of stuff. She absolutely can get better though, so we'll see.



Slow your role buddy.... I never said she was better. Simply stated that she had NOT had the innings. Unfair assessment to make... that is all.
Wellduh

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Reply with quote  #68 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oger
Lopez has improved each year so I expect her to be even better next year. I know Coach Gasso talked a lot about how much she has improved in her preseason presser.

Agree!
RahOKU

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Reply with quote  #69 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cjs4585


Why do you suppose she didn't get more chances? Because she was so good but Gasso didn't like her? No, because there were 2 pitchers better on the team.


Again, I'm not arguing Mariah Lopez is the next Paige Lowary waiting in the wings.

As for the argument above, I don't think being #3 on a team with Parker and Lowary as #1 and #1a is anything to be ashamed of.

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cjs4585

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Reply with quote  #70 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wellduh


Slow your role buddy.... I never said she was better. Simply stated that she had NOT had the innings. Unfair assessment to make... that is all.


Fair or not those are the pitchers she will be pitching against at crunch time (and Barnhill, Garcia, Alvelo, Kleist) if she is the #1 or #2 for OK. You were implying she's on the same level as them. Not one shred of evidence for that.
scrybe

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Reply with quote  #71 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cjs4585


Fair or not those are the pitchers she will be pitching against at crunch time (and Barnhill, Garcia, Alvelo, Kleist) if she is the #1 or #2 for OK. You were implying she's on the same level as them. Not one shred of evidence for that.


You may have inferred that, but he/she certainly did not imply it. All he/she said was that Lopez hasn't pitched enough innings to make a good assessment.
outofzone

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Reply with quote  #72 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cjs4585


Why do you suppose she didn't get more chances? Because she was so good but Gasso didn't like her? No, because there were 2 pitchers better on the team.

When she did get chances she had a decent era of 3.47 but that is not in the same universe as the pitchers I mentioned. As an example, Plain, from WA, had 21.1ip, 2er, .656era *in the WCWS*. In 2018 as a fr,, she had a 1.61 era against top 25 teams, in 77ip all-up. So, yeah she'd be a #3 on WA too, same with FL, FSU and OR.

She may he better this year, or we may find that she struggles under the increased role (assuming she has one). I will say this: when you see the movement and velocity on barnhill's rise, even though she was throwing it all over the shop as a fr, you know you have the makings of a dominant pitcher. Same with Parker's movement from the left, Lowary's raw velocity, Alvelo's rise, change combo, etc, etc. Lopez, from what I've seen so far, doesn't have that kind of stuff. She absolutely can get better though, so we'll see.



sarcasm alert!!

As long as you're defining movement has going in a straight line OR, going in a straight line from low to high at 70+ I'm all in. 

Other than that, you lost me when you insinuated her ball has movement.


cjs4585

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Reply with quote  #73 
Quote:
Originally Posted by scrybe


You may have inferred that, but he/she certainly did not imply it. All he/she said was that Lopez hasn't pitched enough innings to make a good assessment.


"She’s not at that level!? Hmm, 🤔" from post #65 above in response to my point that Lopez is not on the level of the #2s from the wcws last year. Thats a pretty strong implication.

The whole point is that she didnt get enough innings because she wasnt good enough to beat out parker or lowary. May she improve to that level? It's possible but her stuff is not top tier as it stands now.
RahOKU

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Reply with quote  #74 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cjs4585
The whole point is that she didnt get enough innings because she wasnt good enough to beat out parker or lowary. May she improve to that level? It's possible but her stuff is not top tier as it stands now.


If that's the whole point, it's a weak one. There's only a handful of pitchers across the country that could have taken innings from Parker/Lowary. It's not an argument against Mariah Lopez that she was third in the pecking order to those two. Certainly, part of a pitcher's development is getting opportunities in big situations against top teams. Conversely, when you're pitching behind a pair of All-Americans, it's difficult to get those innings and improve.

Can Lopez be an elite pitcher? Sure, given maturity, coaching and improved location/execution. She was a top 10 recruit out of high school and the No. 1 recruit for her class for much of her high school career. She has the tools and she'll get opportunity. Not saying she's Gabbie Plain. I am saying this upcoming season will be big for her, and there's a lot of reasons to believe she could reach that level.

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"We Americans have good teeth and don't eat spotted dick." -- Columnist Kurt Schlichter
Wellduh

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Posts: 13
Reply with quote  #75 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RahOKU


If that's the whole point, it's a weak one. There's only a handful of pitchers across the country that could have taken innings from Parker/Lowary. It's not an argument against Mariah Lopez that she was third in the pecking order to those two. Certainly, part of a pitcher's development is getting opportunities in big situations against top teams. Conversely, when you're pitching behind a pair of All-Americans, it's difficult to get those innings and improve.

Can Lopez be an elite pitcher? Sure, given maturity, coaching and improved location/execution. She was a top 10 recruit out of high school and the No. 1 recruit for her class for much of her high school career. She has the tools and she'll get opportunity. Not saying she's Gabbie Plain. I am saying this upcoming season will be big for her, and there's a lot of reasons to believe she could reach that level.




Agree. Lopez had excellent stuff against Tulsa, South Carolina, Baylor and others ...I can’t remember more off the top of my head. She’s got the potential. Patty doesn’t have a kid eat up so many innings if there are no plans for her future. I know this for a fact.
My 35 years experience as a pitching instructor and former player says otherwise as well. I would love to know everyone else’s level of expertise. Would be fun to compare notes.
scrybe

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Reply with quote  #76 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cjs4585


"She’s not at that level!? Hmm, 🤔" from post #65 above in response to my point that Lopez is not on the level of the #2s from the wcws last year. Thats a pretty strong implication.

The whole point is that she didnt get enough innings because she wasnt good enough to beat out parker or lowary. May she improve to that level? It's possible but her stuff is not top tier as it stands now.


I know you're not a doofus, which makes it obvious that you're simply being disingenuous. If you're gonna quote someone's post, get the context right and quote it all.
cjs4585

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Posts: 669
Reply with quote  #77 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wellduh




Agree. Lopez had excellent stuff against Tulsa, South Carolina, Baylor and others ...I can’t remember more off the top of my head. She’s got the potential. Patty doesn’t have a kid eat up so many innings if there are no plans for her future. I know this for a fact.
My 35 years experience as a pitching instructor and former player says otherwise as well. I would love to know everyone else’s level of expertise. Would be fun to compare notes.


I posted her numbers above against top 25. 3.47era in 18.1ip in 2 years against RPI 25 or better. I also posted a sample of numbers from other number 2's from the top teams. She is not in the same galaxy. She just isn't. I'm not saying that's bad or she sucks or anything else, she just isn't on that level yet. She may develop to that level or not, but her stuff, as is, is not a raw version of that level. Believe that or not, but the data we have so far, bears it out. 


Scupino

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Reply with quote  #78 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wellduh




Agree. Lopez had excellent stuff against Tulsa, South Carolina, Baylor and others ...I can’t remember more off the top of my head. She’s got the potential. Patty doesn’t have a kid eat up so many innings if there are no plans for her future. I know this for a fact.
My 35 years experience as a pitching instructor and former player says otherwise as well. I would love to know everyone else’s level of expertise. Would be fun to compare notes.

How many of those 35 were with collegiate teams?
Wellduh

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Reply with quote  #79 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scupino

How many of those 35 were with collegiate teams?


4 as a player. Many more as a coach... And your background would be???
Wellduh

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Posts: 13
Reply with quote  #80 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cjs4585


I posted her numbers above against top 25. 3.47era in 18.1ip in 2 years against RPI 25 or better. I also posted a sample of numbers from other number 2's from the top teams. She is not in the same galaxy. She just isn't. I'm not saying that's bad or she sucks or anything else, she just isn't on that level yet. She may develop to that level or not, but her stuff, as is, is not a raw version of that level. Believe that or not, but the data we have so far, bears it out. 




😴😴😴
Since you like crunching numbers so much, look up Lowery’s numbers her first 2 years at Missouri. Not so pretty....
smcouvillion

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Reply with quote  #81 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wellduh


😴😴😴
Since you like crunching numbers so much, look up Lowery’s numbers her first 2 years at Missouri. Not so pretty....


Lowary played in the SEC, not conference USA.
cjs4585

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Reply with quote  #82 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wellduh


😴😴😴
Since you like crunching numbers so much, look up Lowery’s numbers her first 2 years at Missouri. Not so pretty....


That's because she was in a toxic environment at MO and they attempted to completely jack up her pitching as they did with several other pitchers. Surely you're not saying Lopez has been anti-developed as Lowary was. Even still, anyone who saw Lowary pitch knew she was special. She throws 74mph from the left. Which of OK's current pitchers can do that? I must have missed it.
3leftturns

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Reply with quote  #83 
Exactly.... Her pitching at the Nutter against Oregon before Nikki's hit? As electric as I saw by anyone in my DD's four years
Wellduh

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Reply with quote  #84 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cjs4585


That's because she was in a toxic environment at MO and they attempted to completely jack up her pitching as they did with several other pitchers. Surely you're not saying Lopez has been anti-developed as Lowary was. Even still, anyone who saw Lowary pitch knew she was special. She throws 74mph from the left. Which of OK's current pitchers can do that? I must have missed it.

Oh my goodness you are absolutely right! The kid should just quit all together! She’s terrible... throw in the towel... the expert guy pounding away behind the computer says so!
outofzone

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Reply with quote  #85 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cjs4585


That's because she was in a toxic environment at MO and they attempted to completely jack up her pitching as they did with several other pitchers. Surely you're not saying Lopez has been anti-developed as Lowary was. Even still, anyone who saw Lowary pitch knew she was special. She throws 74mph from the left. Which of OK's current pitchers can do that? I must have missed it.


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