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Edge

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Posts: 464
Reply with quote  #1 

I have several questions concerning money offered for an athletic scholarship.

Are there limits put out by the NCAA concerning how much money can be paid for:

1) housing ( dorm room cost at school or average rent in area???, average cost for all student athletes???) (utilities covered ???)

2)Food

3)Books ,lap tops and calculators, paper, drafting supplies, mandatory field trips required by your academic field of study,lab fees and extra supplies for required projects, are these expenses allowed by the NCAA or is it determined by the college?

 

We had a coach tell us he will give us whatever anybody else would offer us. Are all full rides equal? What are we allowed to ask for?

AZBCEAGLE

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Reply with quote  #2 

A full scholarship is equal to what it costs to attend school including: housing, tuition, fees, meal plan and books.  Your child cannot recieve money dubbed "scholarship" exceeding 100% of what these fees total to.  I know at Boston College if athletes live off campus and their housing is covered in their scholarship then they recieve the total amount of their housing section of their scholarship for rent, utilities etc... (but not more). A full ride at Harvard is not the same cost to the school as a full ride to most state schools---not all full scholarships to every school in America are equal--they are based on individual school costs. 

If a coach is telling you he will give your daughter whatever other schools offer it is a percentage, not a total amount---a total amount exceeding the 100% scholarship is illegal.

 

I had a full ride and they paid for all my books (some semesters it was $300, sometimes it exceeded $700...they always picked up the tab as long as the books were mandatory for my classes)  They paid for my meal plan by means of putting $$ on my University ID card for food, but not for additional restraunts that I would go to with friends off campus. 

 

You can ask for whatever percentage you want, but asking for more than the total cost to attend that school (including books, tuition, fees, housing) is not realistic or legal.

azure

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Reply with quote  #3 
The university has to establish a total Cost of Attendance which limits the amount of money that they can give ...and the total amount that the athlete can accept. The housing portion amount is usually based to the amount of the dorms. If the student lives off campus, then they get a set amount based on the Cost of Attendance. No more than that. Books are usually those REQUIRED (as opposed to recommended) I understand that there are 'lap top' schools where everybody is expected to have a laptop.

So, if the school if a NCAA school, they are restricted to the Cost of Attendance.

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Edge

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Reply with quote  #4 

Thank you both, you have been very helpful in this confusing process.

vcaldwell

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Reply with quote  #5 
To clarify a point that was touched on. At most schools if an athlete decides to move off campus they will receive a check monthly equal to the amount of on-campus housing that would have been paid for if the athlete lived in student housing, not the amount of the off campus rent. Worth specifying private room or double room when negotiating your room allowance. Big difference in amount.

Vic

3tmz2C

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Posts: 164
Reply with quote  #6 

Remember that anytime, anyone offers money for your education it is a good deal.  Just ask each coach to be specific in numbers or percentages, then you will know what the offer entails, and what portions will be your responsibility.   If you have an offer for full tuition you are very fortunate, as this is the biggest expense and most important.  Some examples---- the $ amount of a full room/board scholarship doesn't matter until your student moves off-campus. The monthly housing check may or may not cover all the rent/utilities/food needed, when living away from the dorms. (I still don't know how they figure this amount??)  Having books included is great, as each semester the $ needed for books varies.  It is nice to just sign for them.  I do have one at a laptop required campus.  She received one as part of her package. 

 

Most importantly, if it is a good fit and they want to invest in your DD...go for it.

BigTenCountry

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Reply with quote  #7 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3tmz2C

The monthly housing check may or may not cover all the rent/utilities/food needed, when living away from the dorms. (I still don't know how they figure this amount??)  

 

The University has to figure out the amount considered a full room and board scholarship by adding up the cost of every room on campus with a full meal plan and then dividing by the number of rooms. (i.e. if there are 15 quad rooms at $4000 per person a semester, 10 triple rooms at $4500 per person a semester, and 10 double rooms at $5000 per person a semester, you get a check for around $4428.50 per semester). That is for living off-campus. On campus, they can put you in the double room and pay the difference.

3tmz2C

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Reply with quote  #8 

Good info.  It is also good to know that what the university considers a full meal plan may be only 12-15 meals per week.  This varies from university to university.  Also, some sports require athletes to eat in the dining hall, thus spending their meal money and leaving a small amount for rent, off campus.  Again, this varies from sport to sport, university to university.

TheHammer

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Reply with quote  #9 

Beware parents, even with a full scholarship, the money needed is never sufficient.

Most full scholarships provide housing, tuition, books and food.

But pocket money and many extra expenses has to be provided by parents.

So parents start saving as soon as you have a child, or even before.

 

TheHammer

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Reply with quote  #10 

Is It " illegal " to have 2 or 3 Academic or other scholarships and be a walk on??

the_fanatic

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Reply with quote  #11 

You can have a full academic ride and still be a walk-on.  All that "walk-on" really means is that you are not a "counter" by NCAA standards.  That means that you are not receiving any institutional athletic aid.  As long as you don't receive any institutional athletic aid, no amount of other scholarship or aid money counts toward the sport's total allowable scholarships (i.e. 12.0).  Once you take any amount of institutional athletic aid, all scholarships and aid (minus non-forgivable loans and some misc. honor grants) count against the total scholarship number.

 

azure

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Reply with quote  #12 
Seabiscuit--thanks for the clarification. Sometimes we forget the NCAA does not totally run our life. And there are plenty of schools that are not NCAA members.

Fanatic - good explanation. According to one interpretation, scholarships based strictly on academics (like a 'dean's scholarship' or similar) or on need (like a Pell grant) do not count towrds the departmental total.

I'm not sure how many schools are affected by this restriction. I think most are constrained by dollars not be numbers of scholarships. An informal survey I took showed that hardly any parents were advised about their DDs accepting other scholarships. I concluded that there aren't many D1 schools that are up against that 12.0 limit or there was a real disparity in compliance.

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TheHammer

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Reply with quote  #13 

azure, you are correct about no one offering free advise considering scholarship.

From my experience,The only school that offered all the advised needed for parents, was Stanford.

JoiseyGuy

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Reply with quote  #14 
Hammer - Of the few that I visited en loco parentis, Notre Dame did by far the best job of explaining in plain English the scholarship and all costs, including normal travel not covered by scholarship and other potential outlays by parents or guardians not covered by scholarship. I thought they were terrific, honest, and informative both about monies and academics. I have never been to Stanford, but somehow I feel that they and Duke and Virginia and Rice and others would be equally adept at explaining the whole situation (and others I'm not aware of). I always told parents that they should consider very strongly the answer to one big question: "OK, when all is said and done, how much is it going to cost me out of pocket to send my daughter to school here each year?". That way they can make more accurate comparisons (money only) and make more valid decisions (including academics and athletics) concerning their daughter's future.
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"Freethinkers are those who are willing to use their minds without prejudice and without fearing to understand things that clash with their own customs, privileges, or beliefs. This state of mind is not common, but it is essential for right thinking. Where it is absent discussion is apt to become worse than useless." Leo Tolstoy

"Do not try to teach pigs to sing. It will frustrate you and infuriate the pigs who will unite in anger against you, and you will never achieve singing your song". Dr. Petersen
3tmz2C

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Reply with quote  #15 

Agree. 

It is up to the parent to be informed.  You will be refered to financial aide and depending on who you talk to, the information varies.  Also, even with a full, the extras cost plenty.  

JoiseyGuy

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Reply with quote  #16 
3tmz - ABSOLUTELY !! That's what I liked about the school I mentioned. They not only displayed what it would not cost, but also what it would cost, including things that could not (ala NCAA) be covered by a scholarship. Unfortunately, some uninformed parents think that a full ride means that they are home free for four years of college. The school also noted types of loans available that could cover expenses not covered by the scholarship. I thought that their explanations were outstanding. There are numerous outlays that are not covered by scholarship, but that scholarship sure does reduce the outlay substantially.
__________________
"Freethinkers are those who are willing to use their minds without prejudice and without fearing to understand things that clash with their own customs, privileges, or beliefs. This state of mind is not common, but it is essential for right thinking. Where it is absent discussion is apt to become worse than useless." Leo Tolstoy

"Do not try to teach pigs to sing. It will frustrate you and infuriate the pigs who will unite in anger against you, and you will never achieve singing your song". Dr. Petersen
TheHammer

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Reply with quote  #17 

Also advise to soon to be college student parents.

Keep your DD on you health insurance.

Even though the school has insurance, it helps to have your own insurance cover your DD.

3tmz2C

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Posts: 164
Reply with quote  #18 

Since a softball scholarship is financial aide, then why don't more coaches/programs take responsibility to know about financial aide.  Each recruit should be set up with financial aide advisement and each athlete not on a full ride should be counseled each year regarding financial aide.  The amounts available change as you continue your education.  Much of this is up to the parents to figure out.  From my experience it seems they don't really know how the process works.  Their knowledge and interest could positively enhance their recruiting efforts.

Chapple

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Reply with quote  #19 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3tmz2C

Since a softball scholarship is financial aide, then why don't more coaches/programs take responsibility to know about financial aide.  Each recruit should be set up with financial aide advisement and each athlete not on a full ride should be counseled each year regarding financial aide.  The amounts available change as you continue your education.  Much of this is up to the parents to figure out.  From my experience it seems they don't really know how the process works.  Their knowledge and interest could positively enhance their recruiting efforts.

It has been my experience that coaches tread very lightly about what they say about scholarships because the NCAA rules are very complex and at time confusing.  Thus, the safe route is to have the NCAA specialist on staff for the athletic department make the determination of what is appropriate and what is not. 
outfieldfence

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Reply with quote  #20 
Yes, the coaches want to make their offers and stay within their limits. The grant-in-aid coordinator wants to disburse the money and be VERY sure they stay in compliance. However they are not looking at the big picture of how the bills will be paid. They figure that the parents will take care of that, it's a family issue. If you express concern, they make vague mention of 'loans being available" But you are probably not going to get any help in putting together other monies.

I'm three years into this and I'm still trying to figure it out!
TXCoach

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Reply with quote  #21 

As a coach, I advise all of my players and recruits to make contact with the financial aid office on our campus.  Those people are the authorities on all federal aid and outside aid.  I also advise them to apply for academic scholarships, if they qualify.  I do talk to them about the types of academic scholarships that actually can be "countable aid."

 

Beyond that, I do not want to be involved in the financial aid process.  I do not want to misinform anyone.

 

Also, I do feel it is the responsibility of the student and their parents to educate themselves about this process.  The non-athlete on campus must go through the same process and there are times that I believe that students and parents redirect alot of responsibility for the education process on to the coaches and athletic department.  If there were not athletes, they would have to do it on their own and I do not think they realize that.

 

Just my opinion. 

outfieldfence

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Reply with quote  #22 
TX Coach

You make some very good points.

My experience is with a school with a large powerful athletic department. It became clear quite near the beginning that the most important rule to follow was:

1. The athletic department tells you what to do and then you do it

Your job, as a player, is to work for the team and the university and we will let you know what is expected of you. The corollary is that we will take care of you.

This rule also applies to the family.

I'm not necessarily objecting to this attitude but it takes you a while to realize that they might not be looking out for your interests especially if you don't have a full ride. You (or your family) are not to do anything that's going to compromise their compliance. Those other thousands of dollars necessary, well, the family is supposed to to take care of that. You were supposed to know that going in, right?
Chapple

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Reply with quote  #23 

Quote:
Originally Posted by outfieldfence
TX Coach

You make some very good points.

My experience is with a school with a large powerful athletic department. It became clear quite near the beginning that the most important rule to follow was:

1. The athletic department tells you what to do and then you do it

Your job, as a player, is to work for the team and the university and we will let you know what is expected of you. The corollary is that we will take care of you.

This rule also applies to the family.

I'm not necessarily objecting to this attitude but it takes you a while to realize that they might not be looking out for your interests especially if you don't have a full ride. You (or your family) are not to do anything that's going to compromise their compliance. Those other thousands of dollars necessary, well, the family is supposed to to take care of that. You were supposed to know that going in, right?

Outfield I generally agree with your comments.  I appreciate TXCoach's position and it makes responsible sense to me.  I would however, also like to see that if a player is being offered money, the coach take the time to lay out what is a typical annual cost for school plus incidentals and what is covered by the offer the coach is making to give the parents and players an idea of the out of pocket expense facing them.  My suspicion is that some coaches migh be reluctant to be this straight forward as it might give them a disadvantage to another coach is sticks with just stateing what the  "%" on scholy's will be and leaving it to the family to "figure out" what the bottom line is.  

 

I sense TXCoach is trying to be truthful in explaining why coaches defer specific detailed questions to compliance officer and it makes sense.  I have to wonder, though, if some coaches use this as a crutch to be somewhat veiled in what they are offering.   

3tmz2C

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Reply with quote  #24 

I appreciate the coach's perspective, not getting involved in the financial aid process and expecting the parents and student to educate themselves.  But from a parent's viewpoint I share in the frustration.  Their lack of knowledge or ability to give this information should be made clear from the beginning and a financial aid contact should be provided.

 

The student is there getting an education under the limitations and expectations set out by the athletic deparment.  During the recruiting process you are given the indication that they will take care of your DD, and the coach is your primary contact.  Having dealt with the financial aid office at one of our schools, it is close to dealing with the insurance claims department.  If your DD is not on a full, advanced financial planning is necessary, and getting financial information out of a coach, who we imagine, should know the answer, is frustrating. 

Edge

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Posts: 464
Reply with quote  #25 

What types of costs over and above a full ride should we expect to see?

Are we talking about just living costs off campus that are costs above dorm room costs that are covered? Are we talking about additional food costs? Extra costs involving travel and the softball team?

Enlighten me.

TXCoach

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Reply with quote  #26 

I do give a rough estimate of total cost, but the cost is not the same for every student.  I define what fees are covered and what are not.  I explain that we pay for 15 hours of tuition and double room occupancy.  I also explain that we pay up to the maximum of a board contract.  I then explain that any costs beyond that are not covered by the athletic offer.

 

But, what I have found, is numerous families do not hear all of that information and then when they see costs appear on their account, they immediately think that it should be covered by athletics.

 

Therefore, I again believe that the responsibility needs to be assumed by the student.  If I show that the estimated cost of attendance is $XX after scholarship, then it is their responsibility to figure out how to make it work, not mine.  Our financial aid office has a number that they use for estimated cost which is more than the athletic number.  They figure in the extras.  I look at the basics.

 

As to the comment that the university controls everything, I know there are some that do.  But ultimately, the responsibility for a student's education, is the student's.

 

I am involved in the recruiting process and their athletic commitment, but beyond that, I do not have much control of what else happens in the education process.  I cannot attend class or take exams.

 

There are numerous websites and financial aid consultant options available.  The student -athlete, just as the non-student-athlete, needs to educate themselves on the process.

 

TXCoach

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Reply with quote  #27 

I have had a parent share a formula that they used.  They took a one month period (during the summer or during their hs year) and kept track of all the money they and their daughter spent on extras (cell phone, clothing, food, gas, etc.).  They took that number and multiplied it by twelve to cover a calendar year.  Then they added that to the cost of attendance at the schools they were looking at attending.  They subtracted their athletic offers from that number to determine what their family contribution would be.  They then explored other financial aid options to see what else they could get to cover their expenses.  Then they looked to see which school they could afford.

 

He said it worked for them.

 

Just a thought.

outfieldfence

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Reply with quote  #28 
TX Coach

Appreciate your comprehensive answers and your sensible approach.

How many players though, in your experience, are offered full rides (ie full cost of attendance) rather than a fraction? Generally, don't want want to compromise your position.

How many times have you heard of players not realizing that any other monies that they might look at would compromise the athletic department's total scholarship numbers?
TXCoach

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Reply with quote  #29 

OF fence - I believe there is a lot of miscommunication on this topic and I have seen a lot of student-athletes, who have thought their "full ride' was all inclusive and partials, who thought their award covered more than it did.  That is exactly why I feel the student-athlete needs to take the responsibility in the matter and find out as much information as possible from the appropriate sources.  I know there are many coaches who side step this issue and the info I stated is as much for them as the student-athlete.  But, I believe it works best when the student-athlete's takes the responsibility to sift through the info and take charge of the process.

 

I have also seen many who did not know what aid is countable or not.  That info must be provided by the coach, but the student-athlete must also inform the coach of what other aid they are recieving or considering applying for.

 

outfieldfence

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Reply with quote  #30 
Thanks TX Coach,

My goal is for the parents of recruits to avoid some of the pitfalls. I understand that recruits and their families should take responsibility for understanding the context of the offer and other funds available.

But easier said than done, most families are going through this for the first time and don't know how it works.

I would encourage all families of players already playing collegiate softball to share their expertise and experience with those now evaluating possible offers.

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