Ultimate College Softball
Register Calendar Latest Topics
 
 
 


Reply
  Author   Comment  
joemcq51

Registered:
Posts: 23
Reply with quote  #1 
When a school has scholarship money to give out, does room and board count towards the total.  So for example, if a DII school has 7 scholarships to award.  For easy math, they give 14 50% scholarships.  Is the 50% amount only based on tuition?  Is room and board covered 100%?  Or is the 50% scholarship, 50% of the total cost of the school?
BillSmith

Registered:
Posts: 6,562
Reply with quote  #2 

The basis for the scholarship total dollar amount is a formula that includes tuition, books (estimate) and room & board. Thus, for simple math purposes, a full scholarship would include all those aforementioned. A 50% offer would be exactly half of that figure.

So to answer your questions:

Is the 50% amount only based on tuition? No. See above.

Is room and board covered 100%? In a full scholarship, yes. But it is a formula. Our experience was a 75% could cover off-campus housing and food, along with tuition, in full. Parking tickets extra. [biggrin]

Or is the 50% scholarship, 50% of the total cost of the school?  Yes. An offer of half, is half of the total expense, including tuition (in or out of state), books and room & board.

Or is the 50% scholarship, 50% of the total cost of the school? Yes, but...

On occasion, I've experienced athletes and/or their parents that did not hear a coach say, "Full tuition" as opposed to "Full ride". As discussed above, BIG difference.


__________________
Bill Smith
West Bay Nuggets
NorCal Women's Fastpitch Summer League
info: nuggetsoftball@aol.com

Sometimes you are the mole, sometimes the mushroom.
LMUfan

Registered:
Posts: 7,421
Reply with quote  #3 
Also, while Bill notes that off campus housing can be cheaper than on campus, it's not always that way.  Where my daughter went to school the off-campus housing was considerably more than on-campus.  However, for the most part, many schools don't have enough available housing for juniors and seniors so off-campus housing may be a requirement.  Also, most off campus housing is based upon a 12 month lease, not a 9 month school year.  For that reason, you can expect that once they live off campus they may not return home during the summer.

All three of our daughters moved to off campus housing after their sophomore year.  It snuck up on us with our first daughter when she never returned home again, except to visit. When you hear them on the phone in the house that they grew up in and refer to it as "my parent's house" it's a shock.  By the time the second two did this we were ready for this.  

azure

Registered:
Posts: 1,898
Reply with quote  #4 
There is a Cost of Attendance established by each school with the NCAA.  That dollar amount equals 1 scholarship.  The amount of athletic money they give out (plus some other that's not need-based or academic) goes towards that amount.  How they package that money into an offer is entirely up to the school.  They can pay 1/2 tuition and 1/3 housing or whatever they want.  The actual amount that it costs to go to that school does not matter.  What matters is that Cost of Attendance.  That Cost of Attendance is pretty accurate; the housing part is usually based on the cost of the dorms with a reasonable food plan.

Most schools are not fully funded, meaning they don't give out their total amount of scholarships.  That amount is calculated as the sum of the fractions of the scholarship.  .5 is half the cost of attendance, etc.

So when my daughter started at Oregon, the initial amount was 40% of (out of state) tuition.  So I naively thought that they would give 40% of whatever her tuition was.  But it wasn't, it was based on the NCAA Cost of Attendance.  Flat.  Didn't matter if she took more or less units or had extra fees.  It wasn't far off but it wasn't strictly what they said.  All that talk was just ways of packaging the fraction of the Cost of Attendance.

I found that, after she signed, that the schools are not real eager to explain this all to the parent.  But, in a big school, there's compliance people that watch this all very closely.

Later,she had a full athletic ride.  In that case, there was a fixed amount given for housing again based on that Cost of Attendance.  And all of the tuition and fees were covered.

Much of this information is closely held.  They don't want you to really figure it out.

__________________
--Read my personal blog at http://azure-turquoise.blogspot.com
NorthSouth

Registered:
Posts: 314
Reply with quote  #5 
How the scholarship is divided up is up to the coach/program.   The % your daughter is offered is what you need to pay attention to. Make sure you look at what is covered.  The full cost of attendance should be noted in the offer.  I agree with Azure that much of the information is closely held.  However if you have a question and you ask a compliance person, they will break it down for you with a little prodding.  
Our experience was different at each school and their paperwork is similar but different.  Read through the entire document.  A while back when education costs were rising, families were caught off guard when the dollar amount scholarship was not increased with the cost of tuition.  A percentage offer is better as it will increase with the cost of attendance.
LMUfan

Registered:
Posts: 7,421
Reply with quote  #6 
Some coaches offer a flat dollar amount and not a percentage.  That happened to me.  The bad news is that tuition alone (not including room and board) went from $24,000 to $32,000 per year (it's now over $41,000) by her four years while the scholarship amount didn't increase.  The good news is that my daughter asked for more money in her senior year and got it, eliminating the increase jolt. 

Holy crap!  That means in the past 9 years the tuition at LMU has gone from $24,000 to $41,385. And, during that time enrollment has increased. Whew!

Whatever you do, ask for method of covering increasing costs for tuition, housing, books, etc.  In fact, I'd do the reverse negotiation if it were today and ask the coach to guarantee a fixed out of pocket expense instead of a fixed scholarship amount for four years where the school picks up the increases.  This, of course, only applies to partial scholarships.

Aside: These are not called scholarships but called a grant-in-aid.  I don't know the difference, legally, but there's probably a reason for the wording.
joemcq51

Registered:
Posts: 23
Reply with quote  #7 
You guys are the best.  We are not quite at this point yet, but feel like it is right around the corner and wanted to be ready.  At what point in the process is it ok to start asking about the financials?  Daughter is a 2017, not going to a Top 25 D1.  She has been on campus with schools that have said they wanted her to go there.  Do girls actually verbal to schools this early and not know how much they will be getting?  That seems like a huge risk to me.  She has excellent grades, but hasn't even taken the SAT's yet.  This just seems wrong.
azure

Registered:
Posts: 1,898
Reply with quote  #8 

Wow.....slow down!  I know that the recruiting process is getting earlier and earlier but that's really significant for major D1 schools and blue chip recruits.

If she's a 2017, then she's just a rising sophomore???  It's unlikely that, unless it's a major program, people are rarely going to be talking money now. 

And give her a chance to grow up a little.  Things can change a lot!  Keep in mind that most of the softball programs outside of the major conferences are not fully funded, meaning they may not have a ton of scholarship money available.  Many coaches like to blow smoke, make vague references to scholarships, string you along.  But it's all talk.

It doesn't count until you have an offer in writing!

Also, if you've read some of the coaching change threads, the coach that's there might not be there 3 years from now.  A danger of committing too early is that the whole thing can fall apart and you've taken yourself out of consideration from other schools.

Generally, you should not 'verbal' to a school unless you have an offer of a scholarship.  Sure, the coach would like a commitment from you without paying any money!  The coaches job is to get the players they want at the least amount of cost to them.  And, unless you are a real top recruit, you don't have much leverage.

Are you talking NCAA Division 1 schools or is the player looking at D2, D3, NAIA?  If you are on a travel team where the players have gone on to play in college, the coaches and the other parents can be helpful.

It's so hard to know the appropriate level.  I was looking at the local community colleges wondering which program would be best and my daughter ended up at a major school.  There also is an element of kismet here....



__________________
--Read my personal blog at http://azure-turquoise.blogspot.com
LMUfan

Registered:
Posts: 7,421
Reply with quote  #9 
Joe,

The best way to setup the money talk is to let your team manager or coach do the front work.  The college coach will ask the travel team coach, "How much does she need?"  We let our team manager know the amount we could afford to pay for college.  The college coach can do the math to work out if he can afford the difference.  In our case that worked.  When he gave an offer it was exactly, to the dollar, what we needed to see.

Azure, 

He shouldn't slow down.  Now is the time to learn these things.  I know that the LMU coach has all scholarship funds committed 3 years out.  That means he's offering sophomores money, big money as "cost of attendance" at LMU is over $60,000. Even a half scholarship is more than a full one at UCLA.
azure

Registered:
Posts: 1,898
Reply with quote  #10 
I agree that it's good to learn things now.  But I would think that a parent would go nuts if they thought that if they weren't on track if they didn't have a verbal commitment or scholarship offer when their daughter just finished their freshman year in high school. 

Some young people can understand this college recruitment process early on but a lot can't.  My daughter was nowhere near understanding the process or even the idea of college at that time.

So much can happen both at the school and with the player in 3 years.

__________________
--Read my personal blog at http://azure-turquoise.blogspot.com
NorthSouth

Registered:
Posts: 314
Reply with quote  #11 
It is not too early to get prepared.  Yes, girls do verbal without really knowing how much they will get, but don't be stupid.   Coaches are now telling girls what the offer will be if they verbal early.  This ties up their money, and her verbal is a commitment on her part.  Remember it isn't official until you get an offer of an official visit, a financial offer and it isn't set in stone until you sign that letter of intent and agreement to receive grant in aide.  Many schools want your daughter to come there. Many schools also may not pay her to do so.
DietCoke

Registered:
Posts: 2,124
Reply with quote  #12 
Too bad USC doesn't have softball.  The players would be well fed!  [wink]

http://msn.foxsports.com/college-football/story/usc-to-spend-over-1m-on-snacks-for-athletes-071614

__________________
“The hand of help has no color. The face of caring has no shape. The language of love has no accent.” - Unattributed
azure

Registered:
Posts: 1,898
Reply with quote  #13 
It's so true.  Lots of schools would welcome a talented player to come to their school.  Even better if they don't have to put out any money.  But that doesn't mean that she'll be part of their program.  Maybe if they have room.

That's the loosy goosy part of verbal commitments.  Usually the coach offers the player (and her family) an offer in writing.  In return, the player verbally commits.  That's informally binding.   Except when it isn't.  Generally, coaches do stand by their offers.  But what if that coach isn't there any more?

Sometimes I hear about verbal commitments from young players and I wonder.  Did the program actually make some kind of commitment?  Any player can announce that she's verbally committed to a program when nothing has really happened.

It's not official or for sure until (for NCAA D1 or D2) until the player signs the Letter of Intent in the fall of her senior year and, at the same time, signs the Grant in Aid papers (the scholarship money)

The Letter of Intent is really designed for the benefit of the university, not the student.


__________________
--Read my personal blog at http://azure-turquoise.blogspot.com
LMUfan

Registered:
Posts: 7,421
Reply with quote  #14 
Quote:
Originally Posted by azure
Usually the coach offers the player (and her family) an offer in writing.  In return, the player verbally commits.  That's informally binding.   Except when it isn't.  Generally, coaches do stand by their offers.  But what if that coach isn't there any more?



Is this something new?  A coach can't make a legally bound offer in writing or otherwise.  I'm not sure what advantage offering it in writing does for the recruit as the coach has no standing to make such a written offer.  I've never heard of a written offer by a coach.

Quote:
Sometimes I hear about verbal commitments from young players and I wonder.  Did the program actually make some kind of commitment?  Any player can announce that she's verbally committed to a program when nothing has really happened.


Yes, this is the odd thing about verbals.  The college coach can't say a word about it.  So, that's what makes me question the written offer part.  In effect he's making a written statement of an offer which, technically, would violate NCAA rules as it could be made public.  A college coach cannot discuss an offer, in writing or otherwise.  It can only be mentioned after the player signs a letter of intent.
azure

Registered:
Posts: 1,898
Reply with quote  #15 
Yes, I think that's true.  A coach cannot comment on a recruit until they've signed the letter of intent.  The coach cannot announce a verbal commitment.  The player can say whatever they want.  I imagine if might be frustrating for a coach if a player would grandly announce that they've verbally committed to a school where the coach has made no agreement whatsoever.  I don't know about that.

The offers that my daughter got were in writing.  They weren't 'official'.  But they were in a form that both parties could see.  So that there would be no misunderstanding.  One was in an email; 'this is what we are offering'.  The other was handwritten on a piece of paper which showed the Cost of Attendance.  It was a long time before I got the significance of those Cost of Attendance numbers.  And I was paying attention.  They weren't explained to me. 

There certainly is a lot of smoke blown about 'full ride' offers that aren't real.  I think that's what is so hard for families as they enter this process.  There is a real imbalance of information

I do admit that my experience was some years back so I would appreciate it if others who have gone through this experience more recently would comment.

__________________
--Read my personal blog at http://azure-turquoise.blogspot.com
lovsofbal

Registered:
Posts: 1,432
Reply with quote  #16 
Quote:
Originally Posted by LMUfan
Quote:
Originally Posted by azure
Usually the coach offers the player (and her family) an offer in writing.  In return, the player verbally commits.  That's informally binding.   Except when it isn't.  Generally, coaches do stand by their offers.  But what if that coach isn't there any more?



Is this something new?  A coach can't make a legally bound offer in writing or otherwise.  I'm not sure what advantage offering it in writing does for the recruit as the coach has no standing to make such a written offer.  I've never heard of a written offer by a coach.

Quote:
Sometimes I hear about verbal commitments from young players and I wonder.  Did the program actually make some kind of commitment?  Any player can announce that she's verbally committed to a program when nothing has really happened.


Yes, this is the odd thing about verbals.  The college coach can't say a word about it.  So, that's what makes me question the written offer part.  In effect he's making a written statement of an offer which, technically, would violate NCAA rules as it could be made public.  A college coach cannot discuss an offer, in writing or otherwise.  It can only be mentioned after the player signs a letter of intent.


We questioned several schools about what they intended on giving the DD for scholarship. And was given the info. But not in writing.  


azure

Registered:
Posts: 1,898
Reply with quote  #17 
Both schools gave something in writing though not in an official document.  One was an email and one was some numbers handwritten on a piece of paper showing the cost of attendance.

Seems you would have to do something to make sure there was no misunderstanding.  Parents sometimes hear way more than the actual offer.  It's hard to understand.

Interesting to hear other's experiences.

__________________
--Read my personal blog at http://azure-turquoise.blogspot.com
BillSmith

Registered:
Posts: 6,562
Reply with quote  #18 

azure- Was the written material an actual offer or something more akin to a worksheet to outline expenses?

The majority of our players who were tendered offers received verbal figures, though most saw an outline or accounting figures of school costs. Really can't remember anyone that had a true "offer sheet". In theory that is what an NLI is all about. Which, as most here know, isn't in play until the end of the process.

Never had anyone misunderstand, as we briefed players & parents before, during and after the negotiation process.

Parent's misunderstanding...

Quite easy to do and in their zeal to appeal, often lose their listening comprehension only to later place blame on the communications skills of the coach.

I know, I know...blame it all on the parents. Let me relate a real world experience...

I coach high school tennis at a school in an affluent community. Biggest drain on the program is the apparent appeal of private schools that offer substantial reduction of their tuition for high achieving athletes. Having had some head shaking conversations with tennis enthusiasts who are parents, I've developed a set piece bit of fun.

Parent: "Trent is considering XYZ Prep, as he passed their entrance test AND they are offering a scholarship."

Me: "Really? Congratulations. However, I can beat their offer."

Parent: "Huh?"

Me: "I can offer you a better deal. Am sure they didn't cover your expenses in full. I can. Full tuition and books."

Parent: "Well they covered half...didn't mention books, but..."

Me: "Am sure they didn't offer you more than I can. Full ride, all the books and no mandatory fee for playing sports, all without that long drive or train ride every day."

Parent: "How can you offer that? You are a public school."

Me: "Exactly. You already paid for it. I'm just pointing out the obvious."

Parent: "But..."

Me: "We graduate more students to HYPSM schools than any three private schools combined."

Parent: "But..."

Me: "We've sent more players to the PAC-10/12 then they have."

Parent: "But..."

Me: "Hey, I'm just pulling your leg. Everybody in your neighborhood gets this advantage. Nothing special for Trent."

Parent: "Oh, gosh. You had me there. I knew it was a great offer from XYZ Prep. We'll just have to think it over."

Me: "You do that."


__________________
Bill Smith
West Bay Nuggets
NorCal Women's Fastpitch Summer League
info: nuggetsoftball@aol.com

Sometimes you are the mole, sometimes the mushroom.
LMUfan

Registered:
Posts: 7,421
Reply with quote  #19 
Bill,

Re: Offer sheet.  A coach can't really do that as he's actually not empowered to tender any kind of offer.  Only the university can tender an offer and they have restrictions as to when an offer can be tendered.  When a coach makes a verbal offer he's just saying that it's what he'll recommend to the university. Of course a lot can go wrong.  He may not be around to make that recommendation to the university or the university can decline the recommendation based upon the students grades, etc.

Re: Public vs. Private.  Same situation where we live.  Wealthy neighborhood with a high end private school, Oaks Christian, vs. high end public school, Westlake.  We never considered the private school.  And, guess what? It all worked out just fine. That's money in my pocket.
LMUfan

Registered:
Posts: 7,421
Reply with quote  #20 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TerpAlum
I can tell who my elders are. The coach can be a "she." you know. 


Ok, ok. But if we're going to be picky what's that period doing after the word she?
azure

Registered:
Posts: 1,898
Reply with quote  #21 
Not a formal offer.  More like a worksheet like you say.
__________________
--Read my personal blog at http://azure-turquoise.blogspot.com
BillSmith

Registered:
Posts: 6,562
Reply with quote  #22 

Thanks azure. And aren't we all glad for that work sheet's contents. [biggrin]

LMUfan: Am familiar with the guidelines of the NCAA, but my initiation to the recruiting process came in the sport of football. Technicalities didn't (and apparently still do not) keep football coaches from telling it like it is. They didn't have to check with the AD or financial department. Rules be damned. They told, didn't ask. Certain baseball programs were the same as were a few long in tooth tennis coaches. When my daughter drug me into the softball arena, could say I was mildly shocked and pleasantly amused that the various softball coaches I encountered followed the rules, adhered to timelines, schedules and fiduciary requirements of their institution and NCAA. Despite what we read here on UCS, my experience is still very favorable regarding the honesty and forthrightness of college softball coaches. I think you have had similar experience with the straight forward coach with which you dealt. As one who has been on all sides of the recruitment of athletes, find it refreshing, were I asked to sum it all up in one word.

Regarding public vs. private: I have no problem with faith based folks matriculating to a private non-secular environment to meet their family's needs. But wish more had the common sense that you had, when like schools exist within their reach and the choice looks more to be the label or hood ornament than the cut of cloth or engine.

TerpAlum: You aren't angry that we, your elders, still refer to our populace on this planet as mankind, do you? If so, got a suggestion? And please forgive LMUfan, his perspective is skewed, so don't skewer him, as his daughter played for a male coach.


__________________
Bill Smith
West Bay Nuggets
NorCal Women's Fastpitch Summer League
info: nuggetsoftball@aol.com

Sometimes you are the mole, sometimes the mushroom.
Previous Topic | Next Topic
Print
Reply

Quick Navigation: