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Pudge

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Reply with quote  #61 

Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoToSix
I agree. The rule is bad, but it still should be reported accurately. I HAVE NO BEEF. I HAVE NO VESTED INTEREST IN THIS MESS LIKE YOU DO. There had to have been more coaches that wanted the rule than those who did not want it. There is NO WAY the rule passes unless the majority voted on it. MY POINT is that those coaches who were willing to sit on their hands and not take a stance are using him and talking out of both sides of his mouth. I am for the guy and his support of the kids.

He spends his own money because he chooses to do that. He has done some nice things on his sight for softball. I particular like his sidebars on history and politics.

Easy. Andy, take a deep breathe. According to the NCAA page, every sport but golf has a recruiting calendar. Did I read that right?

2.6 - I am a little late to this party and didn't read all of the post. And if this has been said already I apologize for saying it again.

But, if you attend an NFCA Convention and go to a D-1 caucus where this stuff usually starts, you will see that a small group controls the floor, and the microphone. It is a very combative environment, and anyone who stands up against that "group" usually gets verbally attacked and basically forced to shut up. After this particular piece of "legislation" was conceived, it was forced down the throats of D-1 coaches. Then at the end of the week it was forced down the throats of everyone else as if it was going to be law. Before it was voted on to take to the NCAA it was sent to a panel to gather votes. Not information on whether or not to do it, but gather votes.

Now here is the twist. Whether that coach's panel decided for or against the rule, there is a certain conference who declars during the voting time that they as a conference plan to take this rule (as well as others) that the majority may be against, to the NCAA no matter what.

As long as the NFCA remains a splintered group with so many different factions, and D-1 being the group the entire organization caters to, rules like this one will continue to be thrown at the majority.

The NFCA is supposed to be an organization for ALL fastpitch softball coaches. It is not. Heck, our Olympic/National Championship winning coach hasn't attended these rules meetings or spoken up about any of this stuff in years. What does that tell you? He attends the conference, but refuses to go because of the insanity that goes on inside the ballroom!  

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Pudge

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Reply with quote  #62 

JG - What is amazing to me is that coaches would want to restrict their opportunities. Why would they not want to get out there and see these kids? QUOTE]

2 to 6

You have coaches that just don't like being on the road recruiting. And they want to make sure that the field rats, who can't live without being at the ballpark don't find that gem by outworking the coach that wants to be at home on the couch. There are MANY coaches in this game that would be at the ballpark every single weekend if you would let them. And there are quite a number of coach's that would rather pull their finger nails out than go watch softball. The easiest way to keep someone from outworking you is to have rules set up so they can't. I am of the opinion that if you don't want to go out and recruit, THEN DON'T GO!!! Stop being a follower. Don't say you have to go because school xyz is going. Don't go. Period. Stop trying to regulate what I can and can't do.

Some of you have seen a lot of these coaches at your tournaments that hate to recruit. You know the ones that spend 6 straight hours with their notebooks closed talking to their friend from another program??? The recruiters or talent evaluators are constantly moving. Eyes on the field. Notebook open. Notes being taken. Concentrating on the task. Those that are going through the motions are at the park for social time. Which is why some of you fans can't understand how your favorite programs are always on a roller coaster ride instead of being consistent winners. Watch your coach and the assistants work at tournaments. You will get a sense of who really enjoys recruiting.



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gthompso

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Reply with quote  #63 
Biscuit - In each case you imply that the coach will violate a rule to make contact (with the exception of the on-campus visit). If we assume that this is a universal truth, then more rules won't help.

As for my sense of humor... it is keen. In this case, I was dead serious.

EDIT: Biscuit- You have been misinformed on the contact rules. Any contact off-campus prior to the July date (summer prior to recruit's senior year) is a violation. It does not matter who initiates the contact.

http://www.ncaa.org/library/general/cbsa/2007-08/2007-08_cbsa.pdf


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Cheese

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Reply with quote  #64 
Seabiscuit:

Sorry, I guess I should have said "used to be" not "supposed to be".  I should have figured out by now that I'll never be able to understand everything about everything quite as clearly as you seem to be able to.  I just wish all the time I've spent recruiting over the past 20 years would have given me as much insight as you seem to have. 
Firstsacker

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Reply with quote  #65 
The short window has not aided the HS student.  In fact, the time line is almost unmanageable and the ability to "right the ship" is nearly impossible.  Many recruits, especially those on the fringe for a top program, have been dragged through the recruiting mess from last Winter up through this weekend.  While most of the top schools, and many, many, mids are now forcing commitments by December of the Junior year (we had a one of our players make an unofficial to a local number 130+ ranked school and they were squeezing her for a commitment by December 1...she has other schools farther up the food chain recruiting her but a 130 State U demanding a December commitment for a '09...ridiculous). 

Many programs, especially those looking for pitching, have been looking for '08 pitchers to "separate themselves" throughout the Summer.  This process continued through Gold Nationals and even into September.  Of course, if your dancing with programs number 20 to 75 it is only natural that you haven't been considering far ranging programs and now the athlete finds out that even smaller quality programs have completed their recruiting...programs you can easily play for yet those schools have also knee jerked and rushed to secure kids and in many cases protect their own turf.

The new rule will prevent players from landing at those quality mid-Majors and will flood the JUCO ranks with players who are Clearinghouse qualified yet aren't looking to attend XYZ State. 

Unfortunately, the new rule will minimize recruit movement, intensify the need to commitment very early, and only aid the top schools with large staffs and large travel budgets.
midodd

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Reply with quote  #66 
If we all agree the current situation with early verbals is a problem, let's stop being part of the problem and start being part of the solution.  Let's work out the language for a proposed change.  Here is my first try.
 
13.9.2.2 Offer of Aid Before Signing Date. An institution may indicate in writing to a prospective student-athlete that an athletically related grant-in-aid will be offered by the institution; however, the institution may not permit the prospective student-athlete to sign a form indicating his or her acceptance of such an award before the initial signing date in that sport in the National Letter of Intent program.

Change to Read

 

13.9.2.2 Offer of Aid Before Signing Date. An institution may not indicate in writing or verbally to a prospective student-athlete that an athletically related grant-in-aid will be offered by the institution until after September 1st of the prospective student-athlete's Senior year; however, the institution may not permit the prospective student-athlete to sign a form indicating his or her acceptance of such an award before the initial signing date in that sport in the National Letter of Intent program.
midodd

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Reply with quote  #67 
Seabiscuit,

I believe it is a problem.  When Colleges are asking for or getting verbals from Sophomores and Juniors, it is a problem.  The pressure on these players to commit early or fear of losing an offer to someone else prevents them from evaluating their future clearly.  If at the start of a player's Junior year they should be given the opprotunity to evaluate the interest from various programs before deciding on one program in their Senior year.  Not receive pressure from a college to commit before 1 December or the offer is off the table.

If verbals are not so wrong, why not let the Sophomores and Juniors sign NLI.
gthompso

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Reply with quote  #68 
Seabiscuit said: "But I believe that the battle will be among the BCS schools and the fallout from all of this will benefit the mid-major and smaller schools."

Biscuit- No NCAA school is immune to the fallout. The swooping and bumping will trickle from the very top programs to the very least.

It is likely that all NCAA levels in all sports will at some point begin to behave as football does today. Sad... because honesty and trust should be paramount in this most important negotiation.

Virtue is a good thing... IMHO. I know you agree... I just wanted to say it first.

midodd: Your words are wise counsel to those that have not been through the process.

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JoiseyGuy

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Reply with quote  #69 
Biscuit - The Values System of corporate America??? Don't trust anyone until they have proven themselves trustworthy beyond a shadow of a doubt. Pretty negative and highly personally protective. If one is careful and generally extrapersective, I think he might be able (with some margin for error) to divide the trustworthy from the non trustworthy without a blanket indictment of mankind. Some people really do have excellent and positive human values. Some don't.
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"Freethinkers are those who are willing to use their minds without prejudice and without fearing to understand things that clash with their own customs, privileges, or beliefs. This state of mind is not common, but it is essential for right thinking. Where it is absent discussion is apt to become worse than useless." Leo Tolstoy

"Do not try to teach pigs to sing. It will frustrate you and infuriate the pigs who will unite in anger against you, and you will never achieve singing your song". Dr. Petersen
JoiseyGuy

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Reply with quote  #70 
Biscuit - Mama didn't want her little boy to be hurt - ever !!
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"Freethinkers are those who are willing to use their minds without prejudice and without fearing to understand things that clash with their own customs, privileges, or beliefs. This state of mind is not common, but it is essential for right thinking. Where it is absent discussion is apt to become worse than useless." Leo Tolstoy

"Do not try to teach pigs to sing. It will frustrate you and infuriate the pigs who will unite in anger against you, and you will never achieve singing your song". Dr. Petersen
TwoToSix

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Reply with quote  #71 
OLD RAYBURN IS AT IT AGAIN. SEEMS NOBODY IS SAFE THESE DAYS.

MORE RISING STARS COMMENTS
Rayburn,

This is Cyd Cooper...founder of Rising Stars Showcase Tournament.

You have never had a conversation with me for more then 3 minutes in all the years you have attended Rising Stars. We treat you like a celebrity and with the utmost respect.
Over the years I have appreciated your comments as well as disagreeing with a lot of them.

I am not a computer junky and have never navigated your web site. Friends from all over the country send me scrapings from various sites.

We just survived a difficult weekend with unexpected weather for this time of the year.
We haven't slept in several days.

Marty Cooper & I are Tournament Founders, Funders and Directors of one of the most dedicated Showcase Tournaments in the country. There are tournament directors that are gluttonis and host Fall tournaments every legal weekend and I haven't heard any comments about that.

Furthermore, you publish an email with NO SIGNATURE, allowing undeserved credibility, to a National audience about my Tournament. I am all for Free Press...but any responsible reporter should qualify the source or at the very least circulate all sides.

Words are so easy to spew through a computer...........especially when you don't run tournaments.
The people who do run tournaments don't complain because they know better. Ask Jim about the rain in New Jersey. Ask Pennsburry about the rain. God Bless Art Coleman who invented the word "SHOWCASE" (PENNSBURY, OVER 25 YEARS AGO) .....We were rained out 3 consecutive years...and went back because it wasn't his fault.

We try not to respond to these half-witted comments, but I am an old woman that can't keep her thoughts to herself.

Hope you give me equal consideration........
I am proud to sign, and you may share with all,
Cyd Cooper
954-610-5366

SPY’s reply to Cyd: My point is not to criticize Rising Stars per se. But, this has been a disappointing season because of the four week window and for the first time in 11 years I have published criticisms of tournaments -- and did so with Gary Haning's tournament. Since you don't read SPY, you may not have known that. I think there is a fair criticism of all major tournaments which tend to give the better attended fields to the star teams. I would like to see you rotate teams on the three days. For what it's worth, it cost me a thousand dollars to switch from San Diego to Rising Stars, hoping to see three days of softball, but only seeing one. As said, you can't control the rain. But, I was there for you.

(Note: Cyd has a good point. I normally do not publish unsigned email; and had intended to hold the previous note for confirmation, but let it slip by. I used it because there were several emails from readers who were critical about not playing at Bamford. In fact, one reader sent the SPY article plus this message to Cyd: Care to respond??? This mom is right, it seems the same teams get Bamford every time. Maybe you should limit the number of teams to only Bamford. Believe me this mom is not the only one who sees it this way..A softballparent from VA (who did sign his name on the emails to me and to Rising Stars..And, Cyd has the last word: I have always liked you, respected you and have treated you with respect! You are welcome anytime to Rising Stars!!!!! p.s. - I do listen to what people want and we are coming up with a rotating schedule so all teams will have some games at Bamford. We always did it in the Summer, not October. Cyd

Mr. Hesse, I wanted to say a comment about the Rising Stars Tournament. I live 5 minutes from the Bamford Complex. Through the years I've been on the worst fields and the main fields. If your players do their e-mails and your on a team that puts out a good product the coaches will drive 10 minutes to see a legitimate prospect. When my players sign or commit I usually get rid of those players, my job is done! I'm going to Ronald McDonald with 10 really good ball players that are unknown so I give the coaches something to come watch.My pet peeve is to go to Showcase Tournaments and see entire teams committed or signed.My personal opinion at the Rising Stars Is that 75% of your team is committed you shouldn't be at Bamford and if your a new 16 or 18 team that don't have a good reputation of putting out college players your team should be at the other parks.Its easy to point the finger. The Rising Stars people do a great job. Its impossible to make every team happy.They weather is always in question, the price you pay to come see Paradise!


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TwoToSix

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Reply with quote  #72 
Pudge you are so far off. Have you ever attended a DI meeting? You personally spoke to MC and he told you that he feels this way?
The recruiting rule and all rules are not even voted on at the DI meetings at the convention. Any proposals and hot topics all go to the HCC and the conferences have their own meeting and their own vote. Once again, I have no problem with personal opinion on these sights, but misleading facts is not healthy for anyone involved.
The head coach of the Olympic Team attends the meetings and chooses not to say anything. Do you really think if he did stand up and speak that the few bullies you are referencing are going to attack him? No way.
Maybe he should stand up and speak, maybe this voice that seems to be out there that is not being heard, will be heard. If you are not engaged, then you can't make a difference. He chooses his path.

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Success comes from knowing that you did your best to become the best that you are capable of becoming - John Wooden
JoiseyGuy

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Reply with quote  #73 
Truly love all these perspective pieces, and truly hope that change for the better will result from the consideration of those who would point out a deficit. Whatever is good for the most kids and the purpose of the tournament.
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"Freethinkers are those who are willing to use their minds without prejudice and without fearing to understand things that clash with their own customs, privileges, or beliefs. This state of mind is not common, but it is essential for right thinking. Where it is absent discussion is apt to become worse than useless." Leo Tolstoy

"Do not try to teach pigs to sing. It will frustrate you and infuriate the pigs who will unite in anger against you, and you will never achieve singing your song". Dr. Petersen
JoiseyGuy

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Reply with quote  #74 
Two to Six - "He chooses his path". How beautifully stated, and don't we all? Sometimes only those rules or laws that affect us directly are important to us, and we don't see the bigger picture or the deteriation of a system. I think that a gadfly like Rayburn Hesse is necessary for improvement, even when I might think he's missed by a bubble or two. He too has chosen his path, and I applaud it from the safety of my computer chair.
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"Freethinkers are those who are willing to use their minds without prejudice and without fearing to understand things that clash with their own customs, privileges, or beliefs. This state of mind is not common, but it is essential for right thinking. Where it is absent discussion is apt to become worse than useless." Leo Tolstoy

"Do not try to teach pigs to sing. It will frustrate you and infuriate the pigs who will unite in anger against you, and you will never achieve singing your song". Dr. Petersen
JoiseyGuy

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Reply with quote  #75 
Biscuit - Inevitably, words (epithets?) like "dog's breakfast" result in replies like "Ol Rayburn's at it Again". Punch me in the stomach, and I'll punch you in the mouth. So counterproductive to real improvement and intelligent discussion.
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"Freethinkers are those who are willing to use their minds without prejudice and without fearing to understand things that clash with their own customs, privileges, or beliefs. This state of mind is not common, but it is essential for right thinking. Where it is absent discussion is apt to become worse than useless." Leo Tolstoy

"Do not try to teach pigs to sing. It will frustrate you and infuriate the pigs who will unite in anger against you, and you will never achieve singing your song". Dr. Petersen
TwoToSix

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Reply with quote  #76 
I love Mr. Hesse. I just think it is great how he can get the attention of everyone. Seabiscuit, you need a hug. Calm. Deep breathe.
You no nothing about me and the way you attack people and the response you give, I think I might like it that way.
I have no agenda, I have nothing personally invested into this stuff like you must. I just love the game.
Reggie Bush is a suspected cheater and I am offended by your comparison. I still loved your movie, even if I do not love you.

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Success comes from knowing that you did your best to become the best that you are capable of becoming - John Wooden
TwoToSix

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Reply with quote  #77 
Please explain how I am discrediting him? Because I let people know about him and his sight?
As a matter of fact, I did ask him if I could share it. How about that? Don't you feel like a fool. See, unlike you, I play fair and I respect what others read and write.
No more conversation for you unless you learn to stop being so nasty and attacking. You twist people's comments and turn them into your own personal view. You are way off and I will no longer respond unless you play fair.
My grammar is so bad because I am only in the second grade.

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Success comes from knowing that you did your best to become the best that you are capable of becoming - John Wooden
gthompso

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Reply with quote  #78 
I'm confused (not a surprise lately)... why would Mr. Hesse post up complaints about Rising Stars with so few cited sources? What does he have to gain from doing this?

He posts one email and speaks to the fact that there are others... There were 300 teams at Rising Stars and I'd bet 3000 parents. If he got 30 emails that only represents 1% of attendees. If Cyd and the other volunteers were able to satisfy 99%, then where is his beef? Good job Cyd!

226- I think I'm finally getting your point when you said:

"If that many coaches REALLY wanted this rule to voted out, it would have been voted out."

You get the feel that he's speaking for the masses when in fact that may not be the case.

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War Eagle!
Dum Spiro Spero
or... "it ain't over 'til the fat lady sings"
JoiseyGuy

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Reply with quote  #79 
Two to Six - For what it is worth, I like and respect your approach to situations. I think that you "play fair" without any obsequiousness. If we all try to rise above personal attacks, this forum would be a better place. But I've beaten that drum many times before and sometimes been chastised for it. It's what I think Robo had in mind when he created this forum.
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"Freethinkers are those who are willing to use their minds without prejudice and without fearing to understand things that clash with their own customs, privileges, or beliefs. This state of mind is not common, but it is essential for right thinking. Where it is absent discussion is apt to become worse than useless." Leo Tolstoy

"Do not try to teach pigs to sing. It will frustrate you and infuriate the pigs who will unite in anger against you, and you will never achieve singing your song". Dr. Petersen
TwoToSix

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Reply with quote  #80 
I like Seabiscuits passion, I just wish he could be polite and not assume everyone has a bad motive. Sometimes it is nice just to throw out ideas and see how it flies.
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Success comes from knowing that you did your best to become the best that you are capable of becoming - John Wooden
Pudge

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Reply with quote  #81 
Quote:
Have you ever attended a DI meeting? You personally spoke to MC


Yes and Yes. 

Quote:

The recruiting rule and all rules are not even voted on at the DI meetings at the convention. Any proposals and hot topics all go to the HCC and the conferences have their own meeting and their own vote.


Since you are so sure, please explain this:

Quote:

The Arizona Ballroom at Tucson's Marriott Star Pass was strangely quiet.  The fierce, sometimes bitter, debates of previous years were not replicated Saturday as six proposals, almost guaranteed to spark controversy, were on the table but no motions wer offered by their sponsors.

There had been informal debates in caucus on (1) a proposal to NCAA to eliminate the eight-run rule; (2) a proposal to NCAA to amend the rule on the eight-hour non-traditional workouts to allow more field time; (3) a proposal to amend NFCA's Division III rankings to reflect NCAA tournament outcomes; (4) a proposal to the National High School Federation to change the highschool pitching distance to 43 feet; (5) a proposal to NFHS to allow HS players to wear metal cleats.  A proposal by an umpires group to redefine crow-hopping was also not advanced.  All six were on the table, but the notional sponsors did not offer them, so no votes were taken.



This is taken from Spy's NFCA Convention Wrap Up from 2006. If there is no voting going on, then why did Spy anticipate a vote? When the entire membership came together, this is when things (as I said) were forced down the memberships throats. I was one of those that spoke up in 2005 against this. Which is also the convention that the HCC idea was created. And the HCC was NOT created so that things could be discussed properly, and a true sense of what the membership wants could be sent to the NCAA. As Spy notes:

Quote:

#1.  A coterie of D1 coaches tried and failed to pass #1 at the annual NFCA convention.  Only a parliamentary maneuver saved this proposal which would severely affect the fall tournament schedule by limiting college coach attendance to an arbitrary period – the second Friday of October through the first Sunday in November.  Faced with the prospect of failing to attract a needed majority in December, the proponents had the proposal referred to this new committee. A serious question is whether this process circumvents the traditional process wherein proposals to rule making bodies like NCAA and ASA must first be adopted by the membership as a whole in open meeting.


Quote:
Pudge you are so far off.
The recruiting rule and all rules are not even voted on at the DI meetings at the convention. Any proposals and hot topics all go to the HCC and the conferences have their own meeting and their own vote. Once again, I have no problem with personal opinion on these sights, but misleading facts is not healthy for anyone involved


You are right it isn't voted on in the D-1 meeting. The vote (in 2005) was done during the General Business meetings where ALL levels of coaches attended. But, none of the lower divisions knew about this legislation until the end of the week. Those of us in D-1 had been discussing the topic in our caucus prior to the GBM.

2to6,

Be careful, you do not know who you are speaking with. I was involved in this discussion/vote in 2005. And I have been adversarial about the process as well as the legislation for a long time. The HCC is a D-1 group. But, this legislation affects everyone. From D-1 to JUCO. And if you don't believe small groups within the D-1 circle aren't controlling the direction of the sport, then you are sadly mistaken. I encourage you to go to Las Vegas at the end of the month. I am pretty sure that this topic will be a major discussion point.

 

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TwoToSix

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Reply with quote  #82 
I don't think I really need to be careful, do I? I am not quite sure what you mean by that.



The vote for the HCC was done at the big business meeting is what a smaller DI coach told me this weekend. The actual vote for the recruiting rule was done in the HCC. Their conference, smaller DI out west voted against the rule, but she said that most west coast conferences voted against it. She thought going to the HCC would help prevent the dominance of those that are vocal because it gave her the chance to discuss the proposals in a smaller setting, with just her conference coaches involved. She said about 70% of the conferences were in favor of the rule. She has been doing this for years and I respect her view point.

If MC and others are so unhappy, wh do they let this happen? If they are unhappy with the what the small inner circle is doing, then why are they all sitting on their hands? I have the utmost respect for your post, but I can't believe that people would sit back and let all this happen, assuming that it is. MC is one of the most respected coaches in the country and if he talks, people listen. What do you think holds them back?

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Pudge

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Reply with quote  #83 

Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoToSix
I don't think I really need to be careful, do I? I am not quite sure what you mean by that.



The vote for the HCC was done at the big business meeting is what a smaller DI coach told me this weekend. The actual vote for the recruiting rule was done in the HCC. Their conference, smaller DI out west voted against the rule, but she said that most west coast conferences voted against it. She thought going to the HCC would help prevent the dominance of those that are vocal because it gave her the chance to discuss the proposals in a smaller setting, with just her conference coaches involved. She said about 70% of the conferences were in favor of the rule. She has been doing this for years and I respect her view point.

If MC and others are so unhappy, wh do they let this happen? If they are unhappy with the what the small inner circle is doing, then why are they all sitting on their hands? I have the utmost respect for your post, but I can't believe that people would sit back and let all this happen, assuming that it is. MC is one of the most respected coaches in the country and if he talks, people listen. What do you think holds them back?

What I meant by be careful, was you are jumping down the throat of someone who was waist deep in this mess from the start. And you were acting like I had never even been in those meetings.

You and your friend are correct.

Quote:
The vote for the HCC was done at the big business meeting is what a smaller DI coach told me this weekend. The actual vote for the recruiting rule was done in the HCC.


But this recruiting calender and the uproar from it, helped with the creation of the HCC. Before the HCC was created this was openly discussed at the D-1 caucus and the General Business Meeting. The HCC was/is used to skirt around the General Business Meeting Discussion. It lets conferences align themselves to get things pushed through. Where I saw the problem was, I came from a lower division school to D-1. The rule changes that are usually proposed come from D-1. Are voted on by D-1. But, it affects the entire softball world. From D-1 all of the way to travel ball/high school. The HCC has no representatives from outside of D-1. How is this fair? It was hard enough trying to vote on things when everyone was at the GBM. Now, everything is done behind closed doors.

As for the "big time" coaches that now stay out of these sessions, I no longer can blame them. I know I questioned it a few years ago. But, after going through the process on my own, I can see why a Candrea (and a few others) wouldn't want to get involved.

The NFCA is a rather.........unique, organization. This may sound bad but, if it weren't for the opportunity to get away from work for a week once a year, and seeing my friends in the business, I would consider the NFCA pointless. Atleast from my vantage point. I have been a member of several different organizations. This is the first "association" that was splintered on some many different lines, and no one wants to try to fix it. Those splintered groups don't care to make it a unified coaches association. Things are done in the best interest of self instead of the game.

As much as softball people complain about ASA. They should be complaining about the NFCA also!  


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Softball is my passion!
TwoToSix

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Reply with quote  #84 
You deserve an apology and one is granted. I was much to harsh in my response. The game is splintered at so many levels. The game needs people like you and MC to stick with it, don't give in. The only way to make change and unite the troops is to engage. If MC and those like him represent the majority, and the more I read, the more I begin to believe it, then they cannot give up. MC and those of his stature are the only hope the "little" guy and gal have.
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Success comes from knowing that you did your best to become the best that you are capable of becoming - John Wooden
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