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Will_I_Wynn

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Reply with quote  #1 
I don't believe President Obama lied about the healthcare bill.  The "lies" papers like to report are their way of chastising a President for not qualifying what he meant more often.  I would say the newspapers should have done this job for the American people.  In any event, I don't mind their criticizm which calls the President out for being too sloppy at times but I disagree he was lying. 

Here is the Presidents words and anyone can chime in as to what they think he means.  I have no trouble understanding his point.

"When I say if you have your plan and you like it, and your doctor has a plan -- or you have a doctor and you like your doctor, that you don't have to change plans, what I'm saying is the government is not going to make you change plans under health reform."

__________________
A gullible nation is a vulnerable nation.  Challenge what you read on the internet.  Our nation's security is in our hands.  Don't be duped by misinformation.

The Right in here are quoting posts and changing words.  Please search for original post if accurate information is desired.  Also, claims I moderate this discussion forum are untrue.

Obama voted best job as President during our lifetime.

     "In these times, I believe that social media has become evil."
Not sure we must blanket all social media but when anonymous adults attack other anonymous adults on the internet, one has to wonder what chance our kids have.

 Trump should be honest with the American people.


TheNarrator

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Reply with quote  #2 
Let's listen to the experts:

Four sources deeply involved in the Affordable Care Act tell NBC NEWS that 50 to 75 percent of the 14 million consumers who buy their insurance individually can expect to receive a “cancellation” letter or the equivalent over the next year because their existing policies don’t meet the standards mandated by the new health care law. 

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/obama-admin-knew-millions-could-not-keep-their-health-insurance-flna8C11484394
Will_I_Wynn

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Reply with quote  #3 
Btw, the Right said there would be death panels and they also called Obamacare a Government takeover of our healthcare system.  Both were named "lies of the year" by Politifact so if we're grading Parties, the Right offered up double the lies than Obama.  The Right here just wants one lie they can hang on Obama.  I understand their frustration but I just can't call it a lie.  Politicians do speak in sound bytes but President Obama clarified his statement in a couple of press conferences.  Look at it as being similar to President Trump clarifying Mexico paying for a wall is actually money we'll gain from trade negotiations.  Then again, I don't know.  Trump's clarification was much further away from his campaign statement.
__________________
A gullible nation is a vulnerable nation.  Challenge what you read on the internet.  Our nation's security is in our hands.  Don't be duped by misinformation.

The Right in here are quoting posts and changing words.  Please search for original post if accurate information is desired.  Also, claims I moderate this discussion forum are untrue.

Obama voted best job as President during our lifetime.

     "In these times, I believe that social media has become evil."
Not sure we must blanket all social media but when anonymous adults attack other anonymous adults on the internet, one has to wonder what chance our kids have.

 Trump should be honest with the American people.


Will_I_Wynn

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Posts: 4,090
Reply with quote  #4 
Set aside the experts for a minute and just share what the quote means to you. 
__________________
A gullible nation is a vulnerable nation.  Challenge what you read on the internet.  Our nation's security is in our hands.  Don't be duped by misinformation.

The Right in here are quoting posts and changing words.  Please search for original post if accurate information is desired.  Also, claims I moderate this discussion forum are untrue.

Obama voted best job as President during our lifetime.

     "In these times, I believe that social media has become evil."
Not sure we must blanket all social media but when anonymous adults attack other anonymous adults on the internet, one has to wonder what chance our kids have.

 Trump should be honest with the American people.


Will_I_Wynn

Registered:
Posts: 4,090
Reply with quote  #5 
All these numbers and percentages are irrelevant to the campaign slogan.  President Obama wasn't saying 100%, 90%, 80%, or 70% of individuals could keep their plans and their doctors.  What he was saying is the new law wasn't going to require anyone to leave the private market and be forced to come to the Government for health insurance and medical care.  That's how he clarified it and I believe it's what he meant.
__________________
A gullible nation is a vulnerable nation.  Challenge what you read on the internet.  Our nation's security is in our hands.  Don't be duped by misinformation.

The Right in here are quoting posts and changing words.  Please search for original post if accurate information is desired.  Also, claims I moderate this discussion forum are untrue.

Obama voted best job as President during our lifetime.

     "In these times, I believe that social media has become evil."
Not sure we must blanket all social media but when anonymous adults attack other anonymous adults on the internet, one has to wonder what chance our kids have.

 Trump should be honest with the American people.


TheNarrator

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Posts: 7,921
Reply with quote  #6 
That the government is not going to make folks change insurance.  If Obamacare is passed, I get to keep my doctor and my plan.
TheNarrator

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Posts: 7,921
Reply with quote  #7 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Will_I_Wynn
I just can't call it a lie.


Highly placed sources in his own administration admitted they knew millions of folks would lose their insurance if the bill passed.  A left-leaning web-site called it the lie of the year.

You are losing any credibility you had by holding onto this.  We know why, and it's comical.
Will_I_Wynn

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Posts: 4,090
Reply with quote  #8 
The Government did not make anyone change policies.  Those were insurance companies who decided to stop offering certain plans.  The Government stood by it's word that nobody would be forced by Uncle Sam to come to the Government to buy a plan.
__________________
A gullible nation is a vulnerable nation.  Challenge what you read on the internet.  Our nation's security is in our hands.  Don't be duped by misinformation.

The Right in here are quoting posts and changing words.  Please search for original post if accurate information is desired.  Also, claims I moderate this discussion forum are untrue.

Obama voted best job as President during our lifetime.

     "In these times, I believe that social media has become evil."
Not sure we must blanket all social media but when anonymous adults attack other anonymous adults on the internet, one has to wonder what chance our kids have.

 Trump should be honest with the American people.


spazsdad

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Posts: 7,497
Reply with quote  #9 
Clasic Dewey. Ask a stupid question that has been answered ad naseum. Get a response you don’t like because it once again blows your point out of the water. Move the goalposts, rinse, repeat.
And his quote, to me, means he was lying to the American people about what would really happen to them once the Dems, and only the Dems, passed the bill. Bottom line I lost my plan and my Dr with the passing of obamacare so I don’t really care what you “think” he meant.

__________________
#SCOTUS x two
Fresh has rings. Ask him to tell you about them


Will_I_Wynn

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Posts: 4,090
Reply with quote  #10 
...what I'm saying is the government is not going to make you change plans under health reform.

The Government did not make these people change their plans.  It was a private market decision to go in another direction.  These companies had every right to continue with the plans they were selling.  They probably didn't want to be known as a seller of "junk" policies.  In any event, the Government did not make their decision for them.  From what I understand, this happened in less than 4% of the population.

__________________
A gullible nation is a vulnerable nation.  Challenge what you read on the internet.  Our nation's security is in our hands.  Don't be duped by misinformation.

The Right in here are quoting posts and changing words.  Please search for original post if accurate information is desired.  Also, claims I moderate this discussion forum are untrue.

Obama voted best job as President during our lifetime.

     "In these times, I believe that social media has become evil."
Not sure we must blanket all social media but when anonymous adults attack other anonymous adults on the internet, one has to wonder what chance our kids have.

 Trump should be honest with the American people.


TheNarrator

Registered:
Posts: 7,921
Reply with quote  #11 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Will_I_Wynn
The Government did not make anyone change policies.  Those were insurance companies who decided to stop offering certain plans.  The Government stood by it's word that nobody would be forced by Uncle Sam to come to the Government to buy a plan.


This is misleading it best, and an out right lie at worst. I’m going to explain it to you one more time and then quit engaging with you on this subject if you refuse to be truthful. Obamacare caused plans to be canceled due to the minimum standards clause get the bill . This made it impossible for millions of folks to keep their plans.

Obamacare officials admitted it.
spazsdad

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Posts: 7,497
Reply with quote  #12 
When the government, with the uneducated broad pen stroke legislation deamed the plans did not meet their new mythical standards then they de facto cancelled those plans. The fact that they called these plans ‘junk” was just more of their deflection to try and avoid blame for what they did by design.
But hey, just keep reposting your same words over and over praying someone will buy the 💩you are selling

__________________
#SCOTUS x two
Fresh has rings. Ask him to tell you about them


Will_I_Wynn

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Posts: 4,090
Reply with quote  #13 
The minimum standard clause could be ignored for existing plans as long as they weren't significantly changed.  The grandfather clause allowed insurance companies to continue selling their normal plans to returning customers.  Many insurance companies took the Government up on their offer and sold plans to current customers that failed to meet minimum standards.  They opted to take advantage of the grandfather clause.
__________________
A gullible nation is a vulnerable nation.  Challenge what you read on the internet.  Our nation's security is in our hands.  Don't be duped by misinformation.

The Right in here are quoting posts and changing words.  Please search for original post if accurate information is desired.  Also, claims I moderate this discussion forum are untrue.

Obama voted best job as President during our lifetime.

     "In these times, I believe that social media has become evil."
Not sure we must blanket all social media but when anonymous adults attack other anonymous adults on the internet, one has to wonder what chance our kids have.

 Trump should be honest with the American people.


TheNarrator

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Posts: 7,921
Reply with quote  #14 
And then they admitted changed the grandfather clause to tighten up the restrictions. Why don’t you tell the whole truth?
Will_I_Wynn

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Posts: 4,090
Reply with quote  #15 
The grandfather clause expires end of 2018.

https://www.advisory.com/daily-briefing/2017/02/27/grandfathered

__________________
A gullible nation is a vulnerable nation.  Challenge what you read on the internet.  Our nation's security is in our hands.  Don't be duped by misinformation.

The Right in here are quoting posts and changing words.  Please search for original post if accurate information is desired.  Also, claims I moderate this discussion forum are untrue.

Obama voted best job as President during our lifetime.

     "In these times, I believe that social media has become evil."
Not sure we must blanket all social media but when anonymous adults attack other anonymous adults on the internet, one has to wonder what chance our kids have.

 Trump should be honest with the American people.


TheNarrator

Registered:
Posts: 7,921
Reply with quote  #16 
I see you not addressing the subject.

I’m out - won’t do this with a liar.
Will_I_Wynn

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Posts: 4,090
Reply with quote  #17 
Don't know if they changed anything about the clause, what they changed, or when they changed it.  Don't even know how it's relevant.  That said, you can post what these changes were, when they happened, and why they even matter.  Readers might be interested in the point you're trying to make.  I certainly don't understand it.
__________________
A gullible nation is a vulnerable nation.  Challenge what you read on the internet.  Our nation's security is in our hands.  Don't be duped by misinformation.

The Right in here are quoting posts and changing words.  Please search for original post if accurate information is desired.  Also, claims I moderate this discussion forum are untrue.

Obama voted best job as President during our lifetime.

     "In these times, I believe that social media has become evil."
Not sure we must blanket all social media but when anonymous adults attack other anonymous adults on the internet, one has to wonder what chance our kids have.

 Trump should be honest with the American people.


uwApoligist

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Posts: 14,465
Reply with quote  #18 
To me it meant what his original statement said.  "If you like your health care plan, you can keep it,"  Even your vaunted politifact claims Pants on Fire for this one.  In fact it is the lie of the year

"If you like your health care plan, you can keep it," President Barack Obama said -- many times -- of his landmark new law.


__________________
Just say no to dullards.   
Will_I_Wynn

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Posts: 4,090
Reply with quote  #19 
Republicans saying we would have death panels and Republicans saying Obamacare was the taking over of the healthcare industry were other "lies of the year" proclaimed by Politifact.  Did you agree with those as well?
__________________
A gullible nation is a vulnerable nation.  Challenge what you read on the internet.  Our nation's security is in our hands.  Don't be duped by misinformation.

The Right in here are quoting posts and changing words.  Please search for original post if accurate information is desired.  Also, claims I moderate this discussion forum are untrue.

Obama voted best job as President during our lifetime.

     "In these times, I believe that social media has become evil."
Not sure we must blanket all social media but when anonymous adults attack other anonymous adults on the internet, one has to wonder what chance our kids have.

 Trump should be honest with the American people.


uwApoligist

Registered:
Posts: 14,465
Reply with quote  #20 
beuracrats are directing most of the care expenditures now.  They are doing it the way they see fit. 

Americans used to control much of their own healthcare dollars.  That not being true hurts every single hard working American, at the expense of drug addicts and layabouts.

__________________
Just say no to dullards.   
Will_I_Wynn

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Posts: 4,090
Reply with quote  #21 
You didn't state whether you agreed with Politifact on the Republican lies they called out.
__________________
A gullible nation is a vulnerable nation.  Challenge what you read on the internet.  Our nation's security is in our hands.  Don't be duped by misinformation.

The Right in here are quoting posts and changing words.  Please search for original post if accurate information is desired.  Also, claims I moderate this discussion forum are untrue.

Obama voted best job as President during our lifetime.

     "In these times, I believe that social media has become evil."
Not sure we must blanket all social media but when anonymous adults attack other anonymous adults on the internet, one has to wonder what chance our kids have.

 Trump should be honest with the American people.


pabar61

Registered:
Posts: 13,763
Reply with quote  #22 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Will_I_Wynn
You didn't state whether you agreed with Politifact on the Republican lies they called out.


Like Trump's comments on Hillary being locked up, death panels were predictions.  You can't lie about something that hasn't happened yet.

But, Obama, knowing ahead of time from his own team that people would lose their doctor and/or insurance, lied about it right to the faces of all Americans.

__________________
Will I Wynn is a poster who used to go by the name of Dewey.  He used to criticize people who did that.

"Once you open your eyes, it's impossible to be a Democrat." - CJ Pearson
Will_I_Wynn

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Posts: 4,090
Reply with quote  #23 
You're dancing around the question.  Politifact voted two lies of the year made by the Right.  Were they right to call them lies?  Yes or no?
__________________
A gullible nation is a vulnerable nation.  Challenge what you read on the internet.  Our nation's security is in our hands.  Don't be duped by misinformation.

The Right in here are quoting posts and changing words.  Please search for original post if accurate information is desired.  Also, claims I moderate this discussion forum are untrue.

Obama voted best job as President during our lifetime.

     "In these times, I believe that social media has become evil."
Not sure we must blanket all social media but when anonymous adults attack other anonymous adults on the internet, one has to wonder what chance our kids have.

 Trump should be honest with the American people.


pabar61

Registered:
Posts: 13,763
Reply with quote  #24 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Will_I_Wynn
You're dancing around the question.  Politifact voted two lies of the year made by the Right.  Were they right to call them lies?  Yes or no?


I'm not dancing.  Tell us all how a prediction can be a lie.

__________________
Will I Wynn is a poster who used to go by the name of Dewey.  He used to criticize people who did that.

"Once you open your eyes, it's impossible to be a Democrat." - CJ Pearson
Will_I_Wynn

Registered:
Posts: 4,090
Reply with quote  #25 
I told you I disagreed with Politifact calling the Obama statement the lie of the year.  Simple question.  Do you disagree with the two lies of the year Politifact charged to the Right? 
__________________
A gullible nation is a vulnerable nation.  Challenge what you read on the internet.  Our nation's security is in our hands.  Don't be duped by misinformation.

The Right in here are quoting posts and changing words.  Please search for original post if accurate information is desired.  Also, claims I moderate this discussion forum are untrue.

Obama voted best job as President during our lifetime.

     "In these times, I believe that social media has become evil."
Not sure we must blanket all social media but when anonymous adults attack other anonymous adults on the internet, one has to wonder what chance our kids have.

 Trump should be honest with the American people.


uwApoligist

Registered:
Posts: 14,465
Reply with quote  #26 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Will_I_Wynn
I told you I disagreed with Politifact calling the Obama statement the lie of the year.  Simple question.  Do you disagree with the two lies of the year Politifact charged to the Right? 

No.  I don't know what those lies are and have very little trust in politifact except when they are declaring Obama a liar.  You know for a fact they are getting that one right.

__________________
Just say no to dullards.   
Will_I_Wynn

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Posts: 4,090
Reply with quote  #27 
I'll answer for you.  The Right disagrees with Politifact when they identify something the Right says is a lie.  However, if it's something the Left says, then they agree.  Many are just unable to admit that's the case.  That's fine though.  Just because a source claims a comment is a lie, doesn't make it so.  Despite all the spin, my friends on the Right feel the same way as I do. 
__________________
A gullible nation is a vulnerable nation.  Challenge what you read on the internet.  Our nation's security is in our hands.  Don't be duped by misinformation.

The Right in here are quoting posts and changing words.  Please search for original post if accurate information is desired.  Also, claims I moderate this discussion forum are untrue.

Obama voted best job as President during our lifetime.

     "In these times, I believe that social media has become evil."
Not sure we must blanket all social media but when anonymous adults attack other anonymous adults on the internet, one has to wonder what chance our kids have.

 Trump should be honest with the American people.


Will_I_Wynn

Registered:
Posts: 4,090
Reply with quote  #28 
President Trump has and will continue to say many things that lack truth.  The Right will be under great duress to call out these falsehoods unless they have examples of a Democrat President lying in order to give them justification.  They need this one comment by Obama to be considered a lie so it will justify any false statement President Trump makes going forward.  It allows them to say "all President's lie".  I don't think it has worked or will work as I think most Americans are seeing the huge distinction between our last President and this one.
__________________
A gullible nation is a vulnerable nation.  Challenge what you read on the internet.  Our nation's security is in our hands.  Don't be duped by misinformation.

The Right in here are quoting posts and changing words.  Please search for original post if accurate information is desired.  Also, claims I moderate this discussion forum are untrue.

Obama voted best job as President during our lifetime.

     "In these times, I believe that social media has become evil."
Not sure we must blanket all social media but when anonymous adults attack other anonymous adults on the internet, one has to wonder what chance our kids have.

 Trump should be honest with the American people.


pabar61

Registered:
Posts: 13,763
Reply with quote  #29 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Will_I_Wynn
I'll answer for you.  The Right disagrees with Politifact when they identify something the Right says is a lie.  However, if it's something the Left says, then they agree.  Many are just unable to admit that's the case.  That's fine though.  Just because a source claims a comment is a lie, doesn't make it so.  Despite all the spin, my friends on the Right feel the same way as I do. 


You're wrong.  Obama and his team knew ahead of time that people would lose their coverage and they said the opposite to the American people.

Death panels were a prediction.

It's very clear.

__________________
Will I Wynn is a poster who used to go by the name of Dewey.  He used to criticize people who did that.

"Once you open your eyes, it's impossible to be a Democrat." - CJ Pearson
Will_I_Wynn

Registered:
Posts: 4,090
Reply with quote  #30 
All you have to say is you believe Politifact is wrong to call death panels and government taking over healthcare as "lies of the year".  It's not a trap.  It's me asking your opinion.  My guess is you think they got it wrong.
__________________
A gullible nation is a vulnerable nation.  Challenge what you read on the internet.  Our nation's security is in our hands.  Don't be duped by misinformation.

The Right in here are quoting posts and changing words.  Please search for original post if accurate information is desired.  Also, claims I moderate this discussion forum are untrue.

Obama voted best job as President during our lifetime.

     "In these times, I believe that social media has become evil."
Not sure we must blanket all social media but when anonymous adults attack other anonymous adults on the internet, one has to wonder what chance our kids have.

 Trump should be honest with the American people.


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