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uwApoligist

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Reply with quote  #61 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheNarrator


Especially when 10's of millions of dems mysteriously change their opinion on a border barrier right about the time of the decent down the escalator.  While some dems have always been against a wall, almost half supported a barrier.

Their changing was purely political.

It must be pure politics.  That is the only possible explanation.   

It would be reasonable for some fiscally hawkish people to be against spending money, even if when the border patrol agents and border patrol exports say it is needed.   But when you go and piss away more than the $5B on dumb politics, when that could have built border security barriers, repaired border security barriers and enhanced our border security barriers with modern sensors, there is no real fiscal objection.

This seems to be some of the motivations of the growing support of the wall.  

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"Tonight, we renew our resolve that America will never be a socialist country.   We are born free and we will stay free. "

keepinitreal

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Reply with quote  #62 
Quote:
Originally Posted by uwApoligist
The Dems have already wasted more than $5B with their shutdown.  Why not invest that in a barrier instead of pissing it away?


Dont they see the hypocrisy in their actions? So their foot dragging is really not about the money now is it?

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Shut up doofus. Not talking to you. 
 
TheNarrator

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Reply with quote  #63 
Quote:
Originally Posted by uwApoligist
It must be pure politics.  That is the only possible explanation.   


Has to be and to see Americans suffering because of it is hurtful to our nation.  It's one thing if you have always been against a wall, I can at least respect their opinions. 
keepinitreal

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Reply with quote  #64 
Wish they could at least be consistent
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Shut up doofus. Not talking to you. 
 
Will_I_Wynn

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Reply with quote  #65 
You've got TheNarrator, a person against building a wall, calling out other members who are against building a wall.  I don't get it.

The border agents I see don't want a new wall.  They want to repair existing wall that is damaged and Democrats support doing that.  These agents say the few immigrants who walk across open areas of our border are picked up by agents and no billions of dollars is necessary to build any wall.

President Trump wants legislation passed and doesn't want to see another Republican walk up and point thumbs down at the last minute.  By holding Government services hostage in a shutdown, he hopes to force all members of Congress to vote the way he is demanding.  I wonder if these Government workers can go a whole year without Trump paying them.  Meanwhile, Democrats keep passing legislation to pay the workers and open the Government.  Sooner or later the President will have to open this Government.



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Worst propaganda over last decade...

1)  Telling Americans Hillary would be locked up
2)  Telling Americans Obama born in Africa
3)  Telling Americans millions of illegals vote
4)  Telling Americans Mexico would pay for a wall
5)  Telling Americans GOP would introduce better healthcare plan

TheNarrator

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Reply with quote  #66 
Quote:
Originally Posted by keepinitreal
Wish they could at least be consistent


No issues with the ones that were - just curious as to why those 10's of millions changed their mind.
Will_I_Wynn

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Reply with quote  #67 
Like you, Democrats supported fixing border fences but not building a wall.  There was no change of position.  Their position remains like yours.  As for why they don't want to build a wall, read here.


__________________
Worst propaganda over last decade...

1)  Telling Americans Hillary would be locked up
2)  Telling Americans Obama born in Africa
3)  Telling Americans millions of illegals vote
4)  Telling Americans Mexico would pay for a wall
5)  Telling Americans GOP would introduce better healthcare plan

Fresh

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Reply with quote  #68 
All are willing to put physical barriers where needed. It's a matter of priorities. There are better alternatives available to prevent the most illegals and drugs from coming across the border. X-ray machines, additional border agents, humanitarian aide for asylum seekers and additional judges and clerks come ahead of any physical barrier needs.
There is one major, underlying reason to oppose trump's petulant demands that we build his wall or else..........
The best way to beat a bully is to beat the bully. Give in and he will do it again. The next time will be for less reason than the first. Can't happen. He has shown a penchant for pushing his abundant weight around and he must be put in his place. He is but one branch of the government, not all three.

__________________
The hard right is certainly passionate and emotional about their causes. But in the end, devoid of factual evidence, they are, as President Obama so wisely and succinctly put it, just saying stuff. 
Will_I_Wynn

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Reply with quote  #69 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fresh

The best way to beat a bully is to beat the bully. Give in and he will do it again. The next time will be for less reason than the first. Can't happen. He has shown a penchant for pushing his abundant weight around and he must be put in his place. He is but one branch of the government, not all three.


Exactly.  If Obama had shut down Government until Republicans agreed to pass Obamacare, the Right would have gone crazy.  Forcing our representatives to vote a certain way is not the American way.


__________________
Worst propaganda over last decade...

1)  Telling Americans Hillary would be locked up
2)  Telling Americans Obama born in Africa
3)  Telling Americans millions of illegals vote
4)  Telling Americans Mexico would pay for a wall
5)  Telling Americans GOP would introduce better healthcare plan

CoachB25

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Reply with quote  #70 
Quote:
Originally Posted by keepinitreal


Dont they see the hypocrisy in their actions? So their foot dragging is really not about the money now is it?


Fact Jack!  What gets me is that the inability of Congress and the President to sit down and talk goes straight back to the Democrats.  Do you remember that when the Democrats wanted Obamacare, they locked themselves into a room, didn't let Republicans in and drew up a NON TAX PLAN for the "affordable health care system?"  They set the stage and Obama lied to the American People time and time again about it.  

This is the Pelosi Shutdown now.  They are hurting America by not meeting.  Trump's compromise showed he moved a great deal toward ending the shutdown.  PELOSI OWNS THIS!

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Those mountains in front of you will seem like little hills when you are beyond them and they are in the past!
Will_I_Wynn

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Posts: 6,701
Reply with quote  #71 
Quote:
Originally Posted by CoachB25


Fact Jack!  What gets me is that the inability of Congress and the President to sit down and talk goes straight back to the Democrats. 


Not true.  Democrats gave $1.3B in border security and now are willing to increase the number.  However, the Government must be opened before negotiations continue.

Unfortunately, the Right is not in favor of coming up with ideas and then persuading voters, or Congress, to support their ideas.  They just don't have the patience.  Instead, they find ways to make people vote in their favor.  Ransoming the Government is just another one of their methods.  What's next? 


__________________
Worst propaganda over last decade...

1)  Telling Americans Hillary would be locked up
2)  Telling Americans Obama born in Africa
3)  Telling Americans millions of illegals vote
4)  Telling Americans Mexico would pay for a wall
5)  Telling Americans GOP would introduce better healthcare plan

uwApoligist

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Posts: 19,146
Reply with quote  #72 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fresh
All are willing to put physical barriers where needed. It's a matter of priorities. There are better alternatives available to prevent the most illegals and drugs from coming across the border. X-ray machines, additional border agents, humanitarian aide for asylum seekers and additional judges and clerks come ahead of any physical barrier needs.
There is one major, underlying reason to oppose trump's petulant demands that we build his wall or else..........
The best way to beat a bully is to beat the bully. Give in and he will do it again. The next time will be for less reason than the first. Can't happen. He has shown a penchant for pushing his abundant weight around and he must be put in his place. He is but one branch of the government, not all three.

Pelosi said barriers are immoral.   if it is immoral, not sure how someone could support it in any sense, except she has voted for it in the past.  Shifting of morals seems a bad criteria for anyone, especially if that someone is a leader. 

Border patrol experts provided a detail list of their asks.  Agents at checkpoints, Agents between checkpoints, drones, border barrier repairs, replace some border barriers that are old and failing, extend border barrier in key areas and border barrier sensor technology.  The list is reasonable and common sense.

The judges things i just stupid.  Libs are running down there and telling everyone to jam up the system suing for refugee status, when 98% don't meet the first test for refugee status.  It is all bit of a lie.  There are no wars in South America or Mexico, it is all stable.  Even the South Americans should be pursuing refugee in Mexico, it is safe already.  Trump as smart to make them wait in Mexico while their asylum claims play out.




 

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"Tonight, we renew our resolve that America will never be a socialist country.   We are born free and we will stay free. "

Will_I_Wynn

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Posts: 6,701
Reply with quote  #73 
Cobert said it the best.  Trump took the DACA kids away.  Then he told Democrats give me $5B and I'll let you have the DACA kids back.  But only temporarily and then I'll take them back again.  Unbelievable.

In any event, give in to ransom now and be kidnapped again.  Democrats can't fall for these methods or votes in Congress will mean almost nothing going forward.  Trump must open Government and then use the bully pulpit to push for his legislation.  If he can get the votes, then congratulations.  I know he's an outsider but he must know we vote in this Country to pass legislation.


__________________
Worst propaganda over last decade...

1)  Telling Americans Hillary would be locked up
2)  Telling Americans Obama born in Africa
3)  Telling Americans millions of illegals vote
4)  Telling Americans Mexico would pay for a wall
5)  Telling Americans GOP would introduce better healthcare plan

uwApoligist

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Posts: 19,146
Reply with quote  #74 
Quote:
Originally Posted by CoachB25


Fact Jack!  What gets me is that the inability of Congress and the President to sit down and talk goes straight back to the Democrats.  Do you remember that when the Democrats wanted Obamacare, they locked themselves into a room, didn't let Republicans in and drew up a NON TAX PLAN for the "affordable health care system?"  They set the stage and Obama lied to the American People time and time again about it.  

This is the Pelosi Shutdown now.  They are hurting America by not meeting.  Trump's compromise showed he moved a great deal toward ending the shutdown.  PELOSI OWNS THIS!

They never had the DACA kids.  If they had them they would have passed DACA permanent when they had the house, the Senate and the Presidency.  Instead the passed a temporary measure.  Kicked the can down the road.  Now, guess what, we are down the road.  And we need to get some border security as it is a National Humanitarian Crises and a National Security Crises down at our southern border.

__________________
"Tonight, we renew our resolve that America will never be a socialist country.   We are born free and we will stay free. "

Will_I_Wynn

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Posts: 6,701
Reply with quote  #75 
To get Republicans to vote to legalize DACA kids Obama would have had to shut down Government and held the GOP hostage.  Democrats don't do that.


__________________
Worst propaganda over last decade...

1)  Telling Americans Hillary would be locked up
2)  Telling Americans Obama born in Africa
3)  Telling Americans millions of illegals vote
4)  Telling Americans Mexico would pay for a wall
5)  Telling Americans GOP would introduce better healthcare plan

Will_I_Wynn

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Posts: 6,701
Reply with quote  #76 
Quote:
Originally Posted by CoachB25


PELOSI OWNS THIS!


That isn't close to being true.  Pelosi can fund the Government and still not fund the wall.  She doesn't need a Government shutdown and isn't responsible for this one.  Trump can only get his wall funding by this ransom method of shutting down the Government.  He already said he owns it.

Your comment is like saying the kidnappers reduced the ransom and the parents still won't pay.  Therefore, it's the parents who are responsible for the kidnapping.  I don't think anyone would buy that conclusion.


__________________
Worst propaganda over last decade...

1)  Telling Americans Hillary would be locked up
2)  Telling Americans Obama born in Africa
3)  Telling Americans millions of illegals vote
4)  Telling Americans Mexico would pay for a wall
5)  Telling Americans GOP would introduce better healthcare plan

Fresh

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Posts: 7,768
Reply with quote  #77 
Republicans don't care about the wall, if they did, they would have gotten it when they had the majority in both houses. 
__________________
The hard right is certainly passionate and emotional about their causes. But in the end, devoid of factual evidence, they are, as President Obama so wisely and succinctly put it, just saying stuff. 
TheNarrator

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Posts: 9,958
Reply with quote  #78 
The rare valid point.

Freshy is essentially admitting that Dems don't care about immigration or gun control, except when it is an election year.
Will_I_Wynn

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Posts: 6,701
Reply with quote  #79 
Most members of the GOP probably don't want to waste money on a wall.  They're just supporting the President out of fear it will hurt him politically if he fails to get funding for a wall.


__________________
Worst propaganda over last decade...

1)  Telling Americans Hillary would be locked up
2)  Telling Americans Obama born in Africa
3)  Telling Americans millions of illegals vote
4)  Telling Americans Mexico would pay for a wall
5)  Telling Americans GOP would introduce better healthcare plan

uwApoligist

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Posts: 19,146
Reply with quote  #80 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheNarrator
The rare valid point.

Freshy is essentially admitting that Dems don't care about immigration or gun control, except when it is an election year.

The Presidents stand on immigration swung the last major election for him and his party.  

__________________
"Tonight, we renew our resolve that America will never be a socialist country.   We are born free and we will stay free. "

Will_I_Wynn

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Posts: 6,701
Reply with quote  #81 
No.  While most States may have wanted a wall, most Americans did not want one.  That includes millions of Republicans.  Even many of those who support Trump (TheNarrator) don't want to waste money on a wall.  The border agents say a wall isn't worth it.  Those immigrants who cross in open areas are picked up by border agents.  The money has to be aimed at catching those sneaking through at ports of entry.


__________________
Worst propaganda over last decade...

1)  Telling Americans Hillary would be locked up
2)  Telling Americans Obama born in Africa
3)  Telling Americans millions of illegals vote
4)  Telling Americans Mexico would pay for a wall
5)  Telling Americans GOP would introduce better healthcare plan

Lost_1

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Posts: 4,004
Reply with quote  #82 
Why do the lefty coastal elites call the hard working Americans that live on the southern border liars?
__________________
If we are not careful, our colleges will produce a group of close-minded, unscientific, illogical propagandists, consumed with immoral acts. - Dr. Martin Luther King


“Everyone is in favor of free speech. Hardly a day passes without its being extolled, but some people's idea of it is that they are free to say what they like, but if anyone else says anything back, that is an outrage.” Winston S. Churchill


Will_I_Wynn

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Posts: 6,701
Reply with quote  #83 
Lost - Do you want to spend money on a new wall like uw or do you agree with TheNarrator that we shouldn't waste money on a wall?  I'm not even sure most Conservatives inside here support this wall thing.
__________________
Worst propaganda over last decade...

1)  Telling Americans Hillary would be locked up
2)  Telling Americans Obama born in Africa
3)  Telling Americans millions of illegals vote
4)  Telling Americans Mexico would pay for a wall
5)  Telling Americans GOP would introduce better healthcare plan

Lost_1

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Posts: 4,004
Reply with quote  #84 
https://www.drovers.com/article/arizona-ranchers-share-experience-border-security



“No Man’s Land”

Much of the traffic across the Tucson Corridor of the border is controlled by the Sinaloa Cartel. Jim and Sue estimate more than 200 trails go through their ranch and all are under the rule of the Sinaloa Cartel.

“About 20 miles into the U.S. is controlled by the Sinaloa Cartel. That’s where our ranch is, it’s in no man’s land,” Jim says.

Trail cameras are set up along three paths to help the Chiltons monitor activity on their ranch. They aren’t catching pictures of wildlife—mostly smugglers carrying large bundles of drugs. Last year 360 images of drug packers were captured.


“No Silver Bullet”

A solid wall can be seen in very few parts of Nogales. The border around the metro-area is primarily bollard-style fence at least 18' tall made from 4"-square tubing or drill-stem pipe. This is a preferred design because agents can see through the other side, and it is difficult to climb. It was built through the Secure Fence Act prior to the Trump administration.

The Bells have 2 miles of bollard fence running from the western edge of Nogales until it hits a steep hill and turns into a four wire fence with a Normandy-style fence in a water gap to prevent vehicle traffic.

The bollard fence has made a big impact on Bell’s ranch management.

“Before, we had a lot of problems with the fence being let down, almost on a nightly basis,” he says.

The neighbor’s cattle would cross from Mexico and graze his Forest Service allotments. “It really made an improvement when the bollard fence went in, and we could see the change from one growing season to the next.”

On the western half of the Bells’ ranch, the border is just a four-strand, barbed-wire fence. It continues west about 25 miles past the Chilton Ranch and a few others.

“We definitely need a wall. We definitely need roads, forward operating bases and better communications at the international boundary,” Jim says.

Jim and Sue believe a wall of some sort is necessary, but they understand a bollard fence might be the best route because agents can see who might be coming from Mexico. It should also be cheaper.


__________________
If we are not careful, our colleges will produce a group of close-minded, unscientific, illogical propagandists, consumed with immoral acts. - Dr. Martin Luther King


“Everyone is in favor of free speech. Hardly a day passes without its being extolled, but some people's idea of it is that they are free to say what they like, but if anyone else says anything back, that is an outrage.” Winston S. Churchill


Will_I_Wynn

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Posts: 6,701
Reply with quote  #85 
I'm sure the border agents pick them up when they come across.  If there are no border agents around, it doesn't make sense.  Also, if there are no border agents around, then these people would just dig under a fence.  Put a couple of agents on duty rather than billions for a wall.  Lots more of these drugs are coming through in vehicles crossing at ports of entry.  We need to stop that before we waste money on a couple out in the desert.




__________________
Worst propaganda over last decade...

1)  Telling Americans Hillary would be locked up
2)  Telling Americans Obama born in Africa
3)  Telling Americans millions of illegals vote
4)  Telling Americans Mexico would pay for a wall
5)  Telling Americans GOP would introduce better healthcare plan

keepinitreal

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Posts: 34,301
Reply with quote  #86 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lost_1
Why do the lefty coastal elites call the hard working Americans that live on the southern border liars?



because they're still butthurt over the election and want to win at all costs?

They sit behind their computers, managing the companies that their daddies gave them, making up multiple handles [huey, dewey, fresh, bonespurs, BAMA_CF, rudy martinez, scotty and duaine] and become part of the problem of fake news by their very existence, placing politics before the country at all costs.  

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Shut up doofus. Not talking to you. 
 
uwApoligist

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Posts: 19,146
Reply with quote  #87 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lost_1
Why do the lefty coastal elites call the hard working Americans that live on the southern border liars?

Kaploo is not  a lefty coastal elite.  He only pretends to be one.  He is a hilljack layabout welfare queen in TN. 

__________________
"Tonight, we renew our resolve that America will never be a socialist country.   We are born free and we will stay free. "

uwApoligist

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Posts: 19,146
Reply with quote  #88 
Quote:
Originally Posted by keepinitreal



because they're still butthurt over the election and want to win at all costs?

They sit behind their computers, managing the companies that their daddies gave them, making up multiple handles [huey, dewey, fresh, bonespurs, BAMA_CF, rudy martinez, scotty and duaine] and become part of the problem of fake news by their very existence, placing politics before the country at all costs.  

They say they are sure border agents are catching them, yet provide zero evidence.  All the evidence, the garbage, the trails, the trailcam pictures, the border patrol agents, the border patrol leadership, all say a barrier is necessary to help them gain control of the situation. 

Anyway Mitch is on the verge of backing Pelosi into a corner.  It will be good to see things play out.

__________________
"Tonight, we renew our resolve that America will never be a socialist country.   We are born free and we will stay free. "

Will_I_Wynn

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Posts: 6,701
Reply with quote  #89 
Quote:
Originally Posted by uwApoligist

They say they are sure border agents are catching them, yet provide zero evidence. 


All the evidence you need is a lack of video evidence of people crossing our border and getting away with it.  If this was happening at any significant level, you can bet Fox News would be showing the video each and every night.  Where are these guys who are letting the President down?  I'm sure they're out there searching and coming up empty.


__________________
Worst propaganda over last decade...

1)  Telling Americans Hillary would be locked up
2)  Telling Americans Obama born in Africa
3)  Telling Americans millions of illegals vote
4)  Telling Americans Mexico would pay for a wall
5)  Telling Americans GOP would introduce better healthcare plan

Lost_1

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Posts: 4,004
Reply with quote  #90 
[Hilarious-WTF-Meme-Wtf-Did-I-Just-Read-Photo]
__________________
If we are not careful, our colleges will produce a group of close-minded, unscientific, illogical propagandists, consumed with immoral acts. - Dr. Martin Luther King


“Everyone is in favor of free speech. Hardly a day passes without its being extolled, but some people's idea of it is that they are free to say what they like, but if anyone else says anything back, that is an outrage.” Winston S. Churchill


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