Ultimate College Softball
Register Calendar Latest Topics
 
 
 


Reply
  Author   Comment   Page 4 of 9      Prev   1   2   3   4   5   6   7   Next   »
DaddyO

Registered:
Posts: 1,016
Reply with quote  #91 
If this is where we are as a society, where we are accepting of any President directly speaking to the nation's schoolchildren in an address that is tailored to them and is presumably education-based, then that's OK - I just want to know.  I just know that this is not where we once were. 

We can go back to 1991, where Bush 41 made a speech about education that was televised.  The White House suggested that teachers wheel in the TV sets so that the students could watch.  Like today's speech, the content was non-descript.  However, reaction after the speech was swift and featured a denunciation by the NEA, the Speaker of the House and Congressional investigation on the propriety of the money spent to facilitate the endeavor.

Unlike today's speech, the 1991 speech did not include a follow-up 'assignment' provided by the Dept. of Education.

Again, if this is where we are as a society, where we don't care if ANY President addresses a captive audience of schoolchildren in an address specifically for them, I'm OK.  Just need to know.  

__________________
Scratch a reactionary leftist, find the fascist writhing underneath.
oldscout

Registered:
Posts: 3,492
Reply with quote  #92 

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoiseyGuy
Back to serious stuff: I just completed a reading (and study) of the text of President Obama's speech to be delivered at noon Tuesday. The major thrust of the speech is to suggest that students work hard to achieve for themselves, their families, and for their country (one mention). The essence of the speech is that students should take responsibility for their own education and work hard to achieve. Although the speech is meant for all students, most of it is aimed at underachievers and those born into circumstances that might hinder their educations. The President offered several examples of young folks who had achieved despite barriers to their achievement, and he included himself and First Lady Michelle in that group, noting their origins. I found this to be very appropriate and not self serving.
How anyone could find fault with this speech is beyond my ken, especially those who hadn't read the text. If, by "indoctrination", one means indoctrinating young people to work hard educationally for their own benefit and accept responsibility, then I can understand the use of that word in judging the text. I can see absolutely no other reason, especially any negative one, for using that word in conjunction with the speech, and especially when it is joined with the Cold War use of the word "Socialism". There are dirty politics afoot. Much ado about nothing when attacking this speech..
My wife, who has no particular political leaning, but is a former educator, thought the speech was "wonderful for kids, especially lower socio-economic kids" and asked "What's all the complaining about?". I have no answer to that question except a political one that includes a consistent and organized effort to demean the current administration at every turn, a "pathetic attempt to indoctrinate" for 2010 and 2012.
PS - I urge you all to read the published text and draw your own conclusions.
JG-I read the speech&have no problem with it at all.My problem at the beginning was with the FIRST lesson plan,which was changed after parents complained about it.I say good for the people that complained it was their right to do so.

Again,I have no problem with his presentation & the current suggested lesson plan.
Why do you continue to bash those who object to what the President does or says.It seems to me that in this case he again didn't have a clue as to the original lesson plan & how it would upset some people.After seeing that it upset people,they changed it& rightfully so.
Those I talk to who were opposed to the whole thing are no longer opposed,.It is now the left keeping this alive by saying those that opposed do not respect the President ,etc.

__________________
Terry Schneider
" Fear not tomorrow, God is already there ".
Softballfanatic

Registered:
Posts: 1,152
Reply with quote  #93 

I anticipate being labeled a BO Basher after this, but here is food for thought. Why was the original "Lesson Plan" released so much farther in advance than the speech? After the original "Lesson Plan" was met with rightful questioning on a large scale by the public, it was changed.  After the outcry on the "Lesson Plan" was the speech changed as well? Did they meet more resistance to their original plan than they anticipated? Did they realize their exposure and tame down the speech too?


__________________
Jerry Wallace "For The Love Of The Game"
DaddyO

Registered:
Posts: 1,016
Reply with quote  #94 
Softballfanatic - I think I see where you are going with this.  You ask very good questions.

I wonder if the whole thing is a parallel to the cheap courtroom tactic of the prosecutor asking the defendant why they committed the crime, the defense attorney jumps up and objects, and the judge instructs the jury to 'disregard' the last question.  As if the judge can put the toothpaste back in the tube. 

__________________
Scratch a reactionary leftist, find the fascist writhing underneath.
JoiseyGuy

Registered:
Posts: 24,434
Reply with quote  #95 
Softball Fanatic - Good questions. I would guess that they met with more negativity than they had expected, especially with any "lesson plan" that related to government or Obama himself. Those gave the anti Obama group sufficient fodder for the big "Socialist" anti Obama campaign. Whoever wrote most of this in the Education Department realized the "mistake" after it was published, and they worked to correct the "misinterpretation". As for the timing of the texts, I see nothing nefarious there.
PS - I do hope that the kids learn lessons about responsibility to self and others, and that they take their school work more seriously than they previously did. I also think that our President's reason (politics aside) was to present exactly that message.

__________________
"Freethinkers are those who are willing to use their minds without prejudice and without fearing to understand things that clash with their own customs, privileges, or beliefs. This state of mind is not common, but it is essential for right thinking. Where it is absent discussion is apt to become worse than useless." Leo Tolstoy

"Do not try to teach pigs to sing. It will frustrate you and infuriate the pigs who will unite in anger against you, and you will never achieve singing your song". Dr. Petersen
oldscout

Registered:
Posts: 3,492
Reply with quote  #96 
As I watch whats going on, it is the divide that upsets me.
President Obama when he ran for office promised change&hope.
He promised no more politics as usual.
He promised transparency.
He promised ,no more selling out to the lobbyist&NONE in his administration.
He said no more earmarks.
On bills like the energy bill&health care he promised to have the experts from both sides& industries involved to sit down& come up with a bi-partisan solution.
He promised to look ahead& not back
Instead we get 1000 page bills,written by lobbyist& not read by the people voting on them.
We get earmarks& very little transparency.
We get mention of the terrible job done by the previous adm.on a daily basis.

What do I think of President Obama?I'm disappointed in him.Like most all politicians he is more worried about his own parties agenda& most everything he told us when running was BS.
Who am I upset with?Simple  answer,it's congress & their attitude that they know better than we the people.
If President Obama is a President for all of us,he would demand bi-partisanship&a stop to the outlandish spending.He needs to call a few people out from both sides.
But,if I were a betting man{and I am},I would say on Weds.before congress ,he will blame the previous adm.for everything ,call out FNC&talk radio& demand the same with little change or compromise.


__________________
Terry Schneider
" Fear not tomorrow, God is already there ".
oldscout

Registered:
Posts: 3,492
Reply with quote  #97 

FYI-Talked to a teacher friend& she said that new lesson plan said that teachers should read books about President Obama& other Presidents so they can use his talk as a teachable moment.It also said that they should put quotes from President Obama on the classroom walls in large print so students could read.


__________________
Terry Schneider
" Fear not tomorrow, God is already there ".
Dewey

Registered:
Posts: 24,423
Reply with quote  #98 
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldscout
Again, I have no problem with his presentation & the current suggested lesson plan.
JG, why do you continue to bash those who object to what the President does or says.  It seems to me that in this case he again didn't have a clue as to the original lesson plan & how it would upset some people.  After seeing that it upset people, they changed it & rightfully so.


oldscout - Two things.  First, review the title of this thread.  It goes far beyond expressing an objection to what our President says or may say.  It is intended to incite your opponents and then you question the spirit in which some of us reply.  Make an extreme statement to irritate and then complain that we're irritable.  Go figure.

Secondly, I'm for a public option in healthcare reform and
you are not.  Please tell me how President Obama, or any other politician, can use bipartisanship to bring us together?  Your expectations are a bit high.  Continue fighting with your voice and your vote, but throwing up your arms in disgust because a President, whose ideology is 180 degrees from yours, is proposing and/or passing programs you would never consider, is wasted energy, imo. 



JoiseyGuy

Registered:
Posts: 24,434
Reply with quote  #99 
old scout - Believe it or not, what some Presidents, including Barack Obama, say is worthy of note, and room on a blackboard. The office of the Presidency is a bully pulpit for just such quotations. Now, if Obama's quotes included "Hate all Muslims" or "Republicans are evil", or "Use drugs;it's good for the economy", then I have a problem with that. Otherwise, I think that there are many non political quotations worthy of blackboard space and which send a positive message to students.
PS - Just a curiosity. You wrote an extensive list of "he didn't do's". Can you think of anything that you would applaud that the Obama administration has done?

__________________
"Freethinkers are those who are willing to use their minds without prejudice and without fearing to understand things that clash with their own customs, privileges, or beliefs. This state of mind is not common, but it is essential for right thinking. Where it is absent discussion is apt to become worse than useless." Leo Tolstoy

"Do not try to teach pigs to sing. It will frustrate you and infuriate the pigs who will unite in anger against you, and you will never achieve singing your song". Dr. Petersen
Softballfanatic

Registered:
Posts: 1,152
Reply with quote  #100 

JG-Yes, some, Presidential quotations are suitable for posting in classrooms, but that is for the teachers to decide. I feel it is highly improper for the President or members of his administration to suggest that teachers should post this Presidents quotations! I just see it as a slippery slope!


__________________
Jerry Wallace "For The Love Of The Game"
JoiseyGuy

Registered:
Posts: 24,434
Reply with quote  #101 
Biscuit - Nice !! Absolutely in the intended tone of the thread. Unworthy of your intellect. Shame on you. Or were you "just kidding"?
__________________
"Freethinkers are those who are willing to use their minds without prejudice and without fearing to understand things that clash with their own customs, privileges, or beliefs. This state of mind is not common, but it is essential for right thinking. Where it is absent discussion is apt to become worse than useless." Leo Tolstoy

"Do not try to teach pigs to sing. It will frustrate you and infuriate the pigs who will unite in anger against you, and you will never achieve singing your song". Dr. Petersen
Softballfanatic

Registered:
Posts: 1,152
Reply with quote  #102 

Seabiscuit- Way to keep it non-partisan also! NICE!


__________________
Jerry Wallace "For The Love Of The Game"
JoiseyGuy

Registered:
Posts: 24,434
Reply with quote  #103 
Old peasant wisdom: "If you don't stir up the manure, it don't stink".
__________________
"Freethinkers are those who are willing to use their minds without prejudice and without fearing to understand things that clash with their own customs, privileges, or beliefs. This state of mind is not common, but it is essential for right thinking. Where it is absent discussion is apt to become worse than useless." Leo Tolstoy

"Do not try to teach pigs to sing. It will frustrate you and infuriate the pigs who will unite in anger against you, and you will never achieve singing your song". Dr. Petersen
oldscout

Registered:
Posts: 3,492
Reply with quote  #104 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewey
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldscout
Again, I have no problem with his presentation & the current suggested lesson plan.
JG, why do you continue to bash those who object to what the President does or says.  It seems to me that in this case he again didn't have a clue as to the original lesson plan & how it would upset some people.  After seeing that it upset people, they changed it & rightfully so.


oldscout - Two things.  First, review the title of this thread.  It goes far beyond expressing an objection to what our President says or may say.  It is intended to incite your opponents and then you question the spirit in which some of us reply.  Make an extreme statement to irritate and then complain that we're irritable.  Go figure.

Secondly, I'm for a public option in healthcare reform and
you are not.  Please tell me how President Obama, or any other politician, can use bipartisanship to bring us together?  Your expectations are a bit high.  Continue fighting with your voice and your vote, but throwing up your arms in disgust because a President, whose ideology is 180 degrees from yours, is proposing and/or passing programs you would never consider, is wasted energy, imo. 



What exactly is the extreme statement I made?

Patisanship might start by sitting down with both sides& hearing them out,not just turning it over to the far left of your party.

And believe me,my friend I will continue to fight with my vote&my voice like I have never done before in my life& I think you will see many like me do the same.

__________________
Terry Schneider
" Fear not tomorrow, God is already there ".
oldscout

Registered:
Posts: 3,492
Reply with quote  #105 

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoiseyGuy
old scout - Believe it or not, what some Presidents, including Barack Obama, say is worthy of note, and room on a blackboard. The office of the Presidency is a bully pulpit for just such quotations. Now, if Obama's quotes included "Hate all Muslims" or "Republicans are evil", or "Use drugs;it's good for the economy", then I have a problem with that. Otherwise, I think that there are many non political quotations worthy of blackboard space and which send a positive message to students.
PS - Just a curiosity. You wrote an extensive list of "he didn't do's". Can you think of anything that you would applaud that the Obama administration has done?
I agree about the quotes,but as I understand it the lesson plan suggests HIS quotes ,not ALL Presidents.

You ask me to list things he has done that are good,What do you think about all he didn't do?


__________________
Terry Schneider
" Fear not tomorrow, God is already there ".
WanabeHorsey

Registered:
Posts: 3,737
Reply with quote  #106 
oldscout, don't you think his supporters should list what things they think he did that were good.  I think the best thing he did was run a near perfect campaign.

oldscout, one poster said Obama didn't say all Republicans are evil.  Why would he when one of his Czars said they are a-holes.

toroman

Registered:
Posts: 1,208
Reply with quote  #107 

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaddyO
Softballfanatic - I think I see where you are going with this.  You ask very good questions.

I wonder if the whole thing is a parallel to the cheap courtroom tactic of the prosecutor asking the defendant why they committed the crime, the defense attorney jumps up and objects, and the judge instructs the jury to 'disregard' the last question.  As if the judge can put the toothpaste back in the tube. 

I doubt that "cheap courtroom tactic" has ever occurred, if the defendant didn't take the stand.  The prosecutor would be censored and the case mistried. 

toroman

Registered:
Posts: 1,208
Reply with quote  #108 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewey
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldscout
Again, I have no problem with his presentation & the current suggested lesson plan.
JG, why do you continue to bash those who object to what the President does or says.  It seems to me that in this case he again didn't have a clue as to the original lesson plan & how it would upset some people.  After seeing that it upset people, they changed it & rightfully so.


oldscout - Two things.  First, review the title of this thread.  It goes far beyond expressing an objection to what our President says or may say.  It is intended to incite your opponents and then you question the spirit in which some of us reply.  Make an extreme statement to irritate and then complain that we're irritable.  Go figure.

Secondly, I'm for a public option in healthcare reform and
you are not.  Please tell me how President Obama, or any other politician, can use bipartisanship to bring us together?  Your expectations are a bit high.  Continue fighting with your voice and your vote, but throwing up your arms in disgust because a President, whose ideology is 180 degrees from yours, is proposing and/or passing programs you would never consider, is wasted energy, imo. 



Dewey,
the title of this thread was by Little George who is one who uses "buzz words" that are intended to be aggressive.  His use of extreme violent sterotypical analogies are to the extent of absurdity. 
The speach is the same message that I provide when I go into the classroom during the great american teachins and other times.  not much different.  The conservative bent on this subject is quite frankly started by somebody that just doesn't like the individual who happens to be the president.  That is anyone's right but the continued hatred is just to an unnecessary level.
newbie1

Registered:
Posts: 287
Reply with quote  #109 
Well, we certainly are two different breeds of people, you "liberals" and us "conservatives".  That being said, liberals definitely have a blatant double standard that they have no shame in displaying.

Liberals are so intent in not only defending this President at all costs, but in bending over backwards to demonize conservatives (or anyone in opposition to Obama and his administration) that you can not even see the possibility that maybe there was a different agenda for this address to the students, and that just maybe the outspoken opposition enticed the administration to change the speech, just as they changed the "lesson plan".  It is possible, and none of us will ever know either way which scenario is the truth.  But, some of you won't even open your minds to the possibility. Instead you cry "dirty tricks", "hatred", etc.  If "we" did the same you'd be crying foul so quick, everyone's head would be spinning.

I'm willing to be as open-minded as possible about Obama.  I will even admit that todays speech was very appropriate and well spoken.  I even believe it may have inspired a few kids to work harder.  But, I still believe in my original opposition, as early on no one knew exactly what the speech was about and the "lesson plan" would certainly have led one to believe that the speech may have had a political agenda.  Fortunately for everyone, it turned out OK.  

I hope that the rest of you can be just as open-minded and admit that the lack of specificity as to the content of the speech, combined with the "lesson plan", is what led to the uproar.  Maybe the White House needs to be more "transparent" to avoid these problems in the future. 

__________________
Jim Kabacoff
3xsbmom

Registered:
Posts: 862
Reply with quote  #110 
I cannot believe that this country has taken such a giant leap backward.
I am so disallusioned to think that supposedly intelligent people could take a simple gesture as the The President of the United States speaking to children on (in most cases) the first day of school with encouragement and earnest concern, and turn it into some kind of sinister, subversive plot to brainwash our children.  When I was young, I hung on every word that President Kennedy said.  It was a special ocasion to hear his speeches.  I understand that Pres Bush and Pres Reagan gave similar speeches.  Why should THIS President be treated differently.  It truly blows my mind.
Dewey

Registered:
Posts: 24,423
Reply with quote  #111 
"Pathetic Attempt to Indoctrinate America's Youth"
 
newbie1 - OK, next time we'll just let that dangle out there and sit idly back.  Want to object to something this President does?  That's perfectly fine.  Want to declare it inappropriate?  Go right ahead.  That's far different than the intent of this title.  What's next, a thread calling President Obama a Communist and asking us Liberals to at least sit back and have an open mind that he may be?  Gimme a break.  If you want to have a rational debate, you have to be rational.

(I don't know why this is in bold type.)
BillSmith

Registered:
Posts: 6,609
Reply with quote  #112 

pssssst...`cause you copy/pasted the "headline".


__________________
Sometimes you are the mole, sometimes the mushroom.
PatGillickProtege

Registered:
Posts: 4,364
Reply with quote  #113 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seabiscuit
3xsbmom said: "When I was young, I hung on every word that President Kennedy said.  It was a special ocasion to hear his speeches...  Why should THIS President be treated differently.  It truly blows my mind."

Obama is to Kennedy as Clinton is to fidelity.

Seabiscuit - glad you said it bc if I said it would have been more "vibrant".


__________________
Keep 'em moving Colonel, a man that eloquent has to be saved.
PatGillickProtege

Registered:
Posts: 4,364
Reply with quote  #114 

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoiseyGuy
Please go back to post #90 before reading this: I would be remiss if I did not mention the speeches and interviews of former first lady Laura Bush who has become outspoken since her husband "retired" from the Presidency. In her finest hour, Laura Bush is praising the job done by Barack Obama and Michelle Obama as well. She also decries the attempts of politicos who work to divide the nation.
Mrs. Bush notes that President Obama has had "a lot on his plate" and has addressed all those problems. She also said that there should be more respect for the office of President. When I was in the service, I was taught that you salute the bars and not the man, and that was a grand notion and a great lesson.

Frank - I reported to an Lt. (department head for Supply) on the sub I served on as Deputy Dept. Head. The guy was one of the biggest jackwads in the world. All the men who served with him (enlisted, non-coms, and officers) hated this guy. The Chief of the Boat (COB) was counting the days until the end of the deployment for his retirement so he would never have to talk to that officer again. When my tour was up and I finished my time in the Silent Service I told him on my last day in the Navy what a huge horse's @$$ he was. I told him one day his men were going to shove him in a torpedo tube and launch him into Groton Bay. He told me I was being insubordinate to a superior officer I responded no I was being insubordinate to merely a higher ranking officer. If there would have been a war he would have been killed by his own troops.


__________________
Keep 'em moving Colonel, a man that eloquent has to be saved.
POV

Registered:
Posts: 2,715
Reply with quote  #115 
PGP....interesting!   

But more importantly.....how would Harry Potter have handled the situation. Or....Palpatine.....or Michael Corleone.....or Tony?

You do make me smile Patrick. :>)

Hey...how bout letting us in on the your thought process for starting this thread and including those links.  Seriously....would love to hear your explanation.
PatGillickProtege

Registered:
Posts: 4,364
Reply with quote  #116 

Quote:
Originally Posted by POV
PGP....interesting!   

But more importantly.....how would Harry Potter have handled the situation. Or....Palpatine.....or Michael Corleone.....or Tony?

You do make me smile Patrick. :>)

Hey...how bout letting us in on the your thought process for starting this thread and including those links.  Seriously....would love to hear your explanation.

POV - you want to know my thought process? Because I felt like it. If you don't want the answer, then don't ask the question.

And take your - how this person or that person would have handled it and you know exactly what you can do with it.

__________________
Keep 'em moving Colonel, a man that eloquent has to be saved.
POV

Registered:
Posts: 2,715
Reply with quote  #117 

Patrick...I wouldn't have expected anything else from you.   :>)

PatGillickProtege

Registered:
Posts: 4,364
Reply with quote  #118 

As long as we can be consistent for you.


__________________
Keep 'em moving Colonel, a man that eloquent has to be saved.
POV

Registered:
Posts: 2,715
Reply with quote  #119 

...and you most certainly have been.

PatGillickProtege

Registered:
Posts: 4,364
Reply with quote  #120 

What do you want next?  You want free tickets to the Circus when it comes to your town?  You want free digital cable?  Maybe a month's worth of coupons for you to take the family to Red Lobster?  Or even being named Fantasy Football Commissioner in my League so you can dish out discipline?


__________________
Keep 'em moving Colonel, a man that eloquent has to be saved.
Previous Topic | Next Topic
Print
Reply

Quick Navigation:

Easily create a Forum Website with Website Toolbox.