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Will_I_Wynn

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Reply with quote  #61 
I'm not going to make a case the Right doesn't believe this to be a great Country.  Of course they do.  Someone wanted an example of a comment gone awry so I offered one up.  Open minded people can rest assured our political differences do not represent any differences when it comes to love of Country.
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A gullible nation is a vulnerable nation.  Challenge what you read on the internet.  Our nation's security is in our hands.  Don't be duped by misinformation.

The Right in here are quoting posts and changing words.  Please search for original post if accurate information is desired.  Also, claims I moderate this discussion forum are untrue.

Obama -  "When I say if you have your plan and you like it, and your doctor has a plan -- or you have a doctor and you like your doctor, that you don't have to change plans, what I'm saying is the government is not going to make you change plans under health reform."

Just because I refuse to criminalize abortion/adultery/offensive speech doesn't mean I favor it.


TheNarrator

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Reply with quote  #62 
Condescending - drink
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Dewey/Will_I_Wynn is our forum moderator and is allowing a poster to call for the assassination of our President
CoachB25

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Reply with quote  #63 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Will_I_Wynn
A married couple takes a $24,000 standard deduction and pays tax on about $86,000.  Tax is about $9900 or 9% of their $110,000 income.  Telling open minded people they pay 1/3 of their income to the Federal Government is a tale spun in order to make taxation look like a bad thing.  As I've said before, I've seen young men and women sacrifice their lives for this Country with zero whining while those asked to sacrifice some money for this Country wig out.


I guess your other point is that anyone who thinks that they are entitled to keep their own money, who think that the government is too large and waste money and who think that entitlements have grown too big and so want government spending to be cut are not patriotic.  You now define patriotism as only a Democrat principle because you want big government that is unquestioned and uncontrolled while demanding that people pay up and keep their mouths shut.  Wow!

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Those mountains in front of you will seem like little hills when you are beyond them and they are in the past!
Fresh

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Reply with quote  #64 
Quote:
Originally Posted by CoachB25


I guess your other point is that anyone who thinks that they are entitled to keep their own money, who think that the government is too large and waste money and who think that entitlements have grown too big and so want government spending to be cut are not patriotic.  You now define patriotism as only a Democrat principle because you want big government that is unquestioned and uncontrolled while demanding that people pay up and keep their mouths shut.  Wow!


Why do you guys feel it's necessary to paraphrase what we say before you comment? It would be more honest to take the post, as written and work with that. Will's point is that exaggerating the percentages of the tax amount only provide a misleading accounting of it's impact. What he said was:

A married couple takes a $24,000 standard deduction and pays tax on about $86,000.  Tax is about $9900 or 9% of their $110,000 income.

Describing their tax burden as 33% is misleading because it doesn't take into account the standard or itemized deductions. 

THAT is what he said.

__________________

When the full extent of your venality, moral turpitude, and political corruption becomes known, you will take your rightful place as a disgraced demagogue in the dustbin of history. You may scapegoat Andy McCabe, but you will not destroy America...America will triumph over you.

keepinitreal

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Reply with quote  #65 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fresh
A trolling we will go, a trolling we will go......

I finally get it. Every time they act like they can't understand simple logic and make false claims.........

A trolling we will go, a trolling we will go.


GAF

__________________
"Getting your motor revved about taking our guns is going to be what undoes your efforts."

"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
CoachB25

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Posts: 620
Reply with quote  #66 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fresh


Why do you guys feel it's necessary to paraphrase what we say before you comment? It would be more honest to take the post, as written and work with that. Will's point is that exaggerating the percentages of the tax amount only provide a misleading accounting of it's impact. What he said was:

A married couple takes a $24,000 standard deduction and pays tax on about $86,000.  Tax is about $9900 or 9% of their $110,000 income.

Describing their tax burden as 33% is misleading because it doesn't take into account the standard or itemized deductions. 

THAT is what he said.

You said, "more honest?" Cut it out.  I'm busting a gut on that one!  I took his statement and laid it out since he attacked anyone who wants to keep their money as unpatriotic!  I noticed you left that part out!!!

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Those mountains in front of you will seem like little hills when you are beyond them and they are in the past!
Will_I_Wynn

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Reply with quote  #67 
I do not find those who think differently than me to be unpatriotic and I would never describe them as such.  Please don't suggest I've done otherwise.  If you have read that somewhere, it may have been a member quoting me and changing my words.  I don't believe I have ever called anyone unpatriotic. 

I've said it's unfair to give today's Americans tax cuts when we're borrowing $666 billion more in 2017.  If we don't come together on spending over the next four or eight years, who will pay for the deficit we run up each year?  It's a shame to pass along the cost of our standard of living today to future generations. 

__________________
A gullible nation is a vulnerable nation.  Challenge what you read on the internet.  Our nation's security is in our hands.  Don't be duped by misinformation.

The Right in here are quoting posts and changing words.  Please search for original post if accurate information is desired.  Also, claims I moderate this discussion forum are untrue.

Obama -  "When I say if you have your plan and you like it, and your doctor has a plan -- or you have a doctor and you like your doctor, that you don't have to change plans, what I'm saying is the government is not going to make you change plans under health reform."

Just because I refuse to criminalize abortion/adultery/offensive speech doesn't mean I favor it.


CoachB25

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Reply with quote  #68 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Will_I_Wynn
I do not find those who think differently than me to be unpatriotic and I would never describe them as such.  Please don't suggest I've done otherwise.  If you have read that somewhere, it may have been a member quoting me and changing my words.  I don't believe I have ever called anyone unpatriotic. 

I've said it's unfair to give today's Americans tax cuts when we're borrowing $666 billion more in 2017.  If we don't come together on spending over the next four or eight years, who will pay for the deficit we run up each year?  It's a shame to pass along the cost of our standard of living today to future generations. 


Sure you did.  You said that you know people who died for this country who didn't whine like the people who don't want to pay these high taxes.  Thus, you drew a differentiation between the two.  

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Those mountains in front of you will seem like little hills when you are beyond them and they are in the past!
spazsdad

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Reply with quote  #69 
Let me just sum this up by saying Dewey is a liar. He manipulates numbers and uses misleading info to try and prove his point to to the 50k. He keeps hoping hat nobody will call out his bogus claims even though he always gets caught
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#SCOTUS

Will_I_Wynn

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Posts: 1,953
Reply with quote  #70 
Who said whining was unpatriotic?  I'm just pointing out that sacrificing tax dollars is nothing compared to the sacrifice others make.  Accusing our Government of stealing from our citizens (an argument made by another) is quite a stretch and at the top of the whine list.
__________________
A gullible nation is a vulnerable nation.  Challenge what you read on the internet.  Our nation's security is in our hands.  Don't be duped by misinformation.

The Right in here are quoting posts and changing words.  Please search for original post if accurate information is desired.  Also, claims I moderate this discussion forum are untrue.

Obama -  "When I say if you have your plan and you like it, and your doctor has a plan -- or you have a doctor and you like your doctor, that you don't have to change plans, what I'm saying is the government is not going to make you change plans under health reform."

Just because I refuse to criminalize abortion/adultery/offensive speech doesn't mean I favor it.


keepinitreal

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Posts: 27,144
Reply with quote  #71 
Quote:
Originally Posted by uwApoligist
You have a club with everyone in the US required as mandatory membership.  The club president passes a rule, says everyone has to give the club 1/3 of the money they make.  No real explanation for why.   

The club largely pisses away all of the money.  They piss away some on hookers directly, booze, dinners.  They piss away a ton by giving it to their drug addict friends who claim they are going to get something to eat but always end up distracted and buying drugs.  A lot they piss away on countries that turn around and do hateful/sh!tty things to the club. 

A bunch is given to freeloaders for Cadillac healthcare while people in the club often have to work extra jobs to play the club fees and have to pay 40% copays to go to a doctor.   A bunch is given to freeloaders that cross the boarder illegally in a failed attempt to prop up the voting ranks of a failed faction of the club.

A bunch of people decide they do not like paying for the club and stop paying.  The club president decides that is bullspit and passes a rule that says the club can steal their money right from their paychecks.

Club gets a new president.  He listens to the club members, and says, you know what, you are right, that is too much money to piss away on a bunch of sh!t no one really wants anyway.  And he cuts their club dues.  Also stops wasting money on illegal aliens propping up failed club factions, and giving money to countries that are sh!tty to the club.

The membership get a warm comfy feeling.  Their 401k's skyrocket.  They get raises at work.  Their jobs go from iffy/tenious to very stable.  Their homes jump in value.  They have visions of paying for their kids college (ok, this one is a stretch,but it is a nice comfy dreamy world).

They fall in love with their new club president and really start dig being in this club.

__________________
"Getting your motor revved about taking our guns is going to be what undoes your efforts."

"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
keepinitreal

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Posts: 27,144
Reply with quote  #72 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Will_I_Wynn
Who said whining was unpatriotic?


Coach just did

__________________
"Getting your motor revved about taking our guns is going to be what undoes your efforts."

"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
CoachB25

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Posts: 620
Reply with quote  #73 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Will_I_Wynn
Who said whining was unpatriotic?  I'm just pointing out that sacrificing tax dollars is nothing compared to the sacrifice others make.  Accusing our Government of stealing from our citizens (an argument made by another) is quite a stretch and at the top of the whine list.


No one is buying this deflection.  You mentioned you know people who died for this country and, in the same sentence, you attack those that complain about taxes.  Your intentions was clear!

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Those mountains in front of you will seem like little hills when you are beyond them and they are in the past!
uwApoligist

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Posts: 10,670
Reply with quote  #74 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Will_I_Wynn
Who said whining was unpatriotic?  I'm just pointing out that sacrificing tax dollars is nothing compared to the sacrifice others make.  Accusing our Government of stealing from our citizens (an argument made by another) is quite a stretch and at the top of the whine list.

Our country was founded by people that thought Englands tax collectors were stealing our money.

That was the whole point.  So it is very patriotic.

__________________
Originally Posted by Fresh
"before the election a d Iowa sId hi.self that there was nothing to it"
WTF?
keepinitreal

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Posts: 27,144
Reply with quote  #75 
Are you confusing dewy with American history?
__________________
"Getting your motor revved about taking our guns is going to be what undoes your efforts."

"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
Will_I_Wynn

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Posts: 1,953
Reply with quote  #76 
Without taxes, there is no USA.

If we borrow another $666 billion to cover deficit in 2018, I have three questions.  Who will pay off that loan?  Why should somebody else be obligated for this loan?  If we suffer another deficit in 2018, should we move to more tax cuts in 2019?

The Left will ask our Representatives to raise taxes to cover our annual deficit and the Right will ask them to cut spending to balance our budget.  What the Left won't do is ask for our Representatives to cut our taxes, which reduce revenue and lead to more borrowing.  This action only passes the buck to others.

__________________
A gullible nation is a vulnerable nation.  Challenge what you read on the internet.  Our nation's security is in our hands.  Don't be duped by misinformation.

The Right in here are quoting posts and changing words.  Please search for original post if accurate information is desired.  Also, claims I moderate this discussion forum are untrue.

Obama -  "When I say if you have your plan and you like it, and your doctor has a plan -- or you have a doctor and you like your doctor, that you don't have to change plans, what I'm saying is the government is not going to make you change plans under health reform."

Just because I refuse to criminalize abortion/adultery/offensive speech doesn't mean I favor it.


EarlyGrayce

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Posts: 5,586
Reply with quote  #77 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Will_I_Wynn
Layabouts steal money from Americans and pi** it away. 

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Dewey/Will_I_Wynn is our forum moderator and is allowing a poster to call for the assassination of our President.

uwApoligist

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Posts: 10,670
Reply with quote  #78 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Will_I_Wynn
Without taxes, there is no USA.

If we borrow another $666 billion to cover deficit in 2018, I have three questions.  Who will pay off that loan?  Why should somebody else be obligated for this loan?  If we suffer another deficit in 2018, should we move to more tax cuts in 2019?

The Left will ask our Representatives to raise taxes to cover our annual deficit and the Right will ask them to cut spending to balance our budget.  What the Left won't do is ask for our Representatives to cut our taxes, which reduce revenue and lead to more borrowing.  This action only passes the buck to others.

There was no legal way to collect income taxes until 1913 ratification of the 16th Amendment.  So the country has existed much longer without taxes than it has with taxes.

We should make cuts to reduce spending burden and ensure there is not a deficit in 2018.  With our current growth rate there is a chance the budget shortfalls are minor, if that happens do you support additional Tax cuts?

The left blocks spending cuts, which raises debt.

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Originally Posted by Fresh
"before the election a d Iowa sId hi.self that there was nothing to it"
WTF?
keepinitreal

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Posts: 27,144
Reply with quote  #79 
Quote:
Originally Posted by uwApoligist



The left blocks spending cuts, which raises debt.


Dewy hates spending cuts

__________________
"Getting your motor revved about taking our guns is going to be what undoes your efforts."

"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
EarlyGrayce

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Posts: 5,586
Reply with quote  #80 
Yes he does. Seems hard for libs to accept that there is huge amounts of overspending and wasteful overlapping bureaucracies inherent in huge government. Trump and Congress make cuts and demand accountability, there will be much more effective spending. The children wont starve after all.
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Dewey/Will_I_Wynn is our forum moderator and is allowing a poster to call for the assassination of our President.

TheNarrator

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Posts: 5,858
Reply with quote  #81 
He already said there is nowhere to cut.

Not quite sure that’s possible.

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Dewey/Will_I_Wynn is our forum moderator and is allowing a poster to call for the assassination of our President
Fresh

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Posts: 4,422
Reply with quote  #82 
Not the only place, but the defense budget probably has the most easily attacked abuses. trump started out getting Boeing to cut the expense on Air Force 1. There are other areas that could realize similar efficiency cuts. Defense contractor lobbyists should be held to a minimum of influence. There is bloat in our welfare system and this should be addressed. I have no desire to provide housing for a recipients boyfriend, so he can avoid having to work. I do worry about the recipients innocent children and have problems coming to terms with caring for the children and evicting the boyfriend. It would almost require monthly visits by government monitors. To reject school breakfast and lunch programs removes the purest form our welfare should take. Ignoring the defense bloat is also wrong. I'm sure there are ways to address it, but as long as everyone wants it to be somebody else's piece of the pie that gets cut, we'll get nowhere. Abusing our defense budget for personal gain may be the most unpatriotic action imaginable. 
__________________

When the full extent of your venality, moral turpitude, and political corruption becomes known, you will take your rightful place as a disgraced demagogue in the dustbin of history. You may scapegoat Andy McCabe, but you will not destroy America...America will triumph over you.

pabar61

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Posts: 12,105
Reply with quote  #83 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fresh
Not the only place, but the defense budget probably has the most easily attacked abuses. trump started out getting Boeing to cut the expense on Air Force 1. There are other areas that could realize similar efficiency cuts. Defense contractor lobbyists should be held to a minimum of influence. There is bloat in our welfare system and this should be addressed. I have no desire to provide housing for a recipients boyfriend, so he can avoid having to work. I do worry about the recipients innocent children and have problems coming to terms with caring for the children and evicting the boyfriend. It would almost require monthly visits by government monitors. To reject school breakfast and lunch programs removes the purest form our welfare should take. Ignoring the defense bloat is also wrong. I'm sure there are ways to address it, but as long as everyone wants it to be somebody else's piece of the pie that gets cut, we'll get nowhere. Abusing our defense budget for personal gain may be the most unpatriotic action imaginable. 


Hard to argue with much of this but if the purpose of cutting spending is to reduce the deficit and bring down the national debt, then we have to look at social security and medicare.  There's no other way.

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Will I Wynn is a poster who used to go by the name of Dewey.  He used to criticize people who did that.
Fresh

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Reply with quote  #84 
I'm almost 68 and agree. The scale for retirement has to be reworked. People are living longer and it's not like the SS money is sitting there drawing interest to allow for the additional years people are eligible. Probably need to extend the upper limits on deductions and cut wealthy people payouts altogether. 
Medicare........how do we cut expenses without going to single payer? We need one medical system to take care of all Americans. Negotiate drug prices and doctor fees to a reasonable level. Factor costs into income tax and giterdone. The young that generally make less would pay less. The older people that use it more would, by their higher income, pay more. I don't think there's any other answer. There will be abuse, but there is in any system. You can't legislate honesty. The doctors would have to be allowed to determine need. We might have to legislate some protection for doctors that withold what they deem unnecessary treatment that results in a serious health issue. Malpractice claims could be a problem.

__________________

When the full extent of your venality, moral turpitude, and political corruption becomes known, you will take your rightful place as a disgraced demagogue in the dustbin of history. You may scapegoat Andy McCabe, but you will not destroy America...America will triumph over you.

uwApoligist

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Posts: 10,670
Reply with quote  #85 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fresh
I'm almost 68 and agree. The scale for retirement has to be reworked. People are living longer and it's not like the SS money is sitting there drawing interest to allow for the additional years people are eligible. Probably need to extend the upper limits on deductions and cut wealthy people payouts altogether. 
Medicare........how do we cut expenses without going to single payer? We need one medical system to take care of all Americans. Negotiate drug prices and doctor fees to a reasonable level. Factor costs into income tax and giterdone. The young that generally make less would pay less. The older people that use it more would, by their higher income, pay more. I don't think there's any other answer. There will be abuse, but there is in any system. You can't legislate honesty. The doctors would have to be allowed to determine need. We might have to legislate some protection for doctors that withold what they deem unnecessary treatment that results in a serious health issue. Malpractice claims could be a problem.

SS promised if you pay in you receive out.  It is a retirement fund.  Cutting wealthy payouts would break that key promise. 

They could come up with a system if you make above X, you can opt out of SS, then those with healthy 401ks can stop contributing and not receive payouts.   Otherwise SS becomes a true tax, and it was never passed as a true Tax, it was passed as a retirement fund that all contributed to and all receive from. 

Upping the retirement age, and turning SS disability back into a 'true' disability package would likely do most of what we need.

Single payer would be a nightmare.  Government has already proven they have no ability to control cost.  So der da der let's give them more control.   That is not how it works.  If government really wanted to control costs they could do it by price setting now, they control like 46% of the the healthcare spend now.  Looking at Medicare, Obamacare, Medicaid, and VA spending.  If they wanted to set prices, they could.

Government should do big data and trend analysis like the great private sector companies Amazon, Google, Expedia are doing.  

Move indigents out of Cadillac healthcare system into low cost marketplace.  Indigents have no concept of cost control and consume healthcare at an alarming rate.  Especially the drug addicts.  By putting them into high cost control environment you contain the part that is eating the system alive now.  Push the funding down to the state level and states can decide how best to control costs, they are much better than the feds at this.  Plus states can experiment with what works for their people.

__________________
Originally Posted by Fresh
"before the election a d Iowa sId hi.self that there was nothing to it"
WTF?
uwApoligist

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Posts: 10,670
Reply with quote  #86 
By the way.  Most that support the 1% across the board reductions until the budget is balanced and our debt is on a path to getting payed off include the military spend in that number. 

There is certainly cuts in waste in our military.  Trump admin recently exposed the $125B in bureaucratic waste.  Unfortunately our military has fallen quite into disrepair.  They have to modernize their nuclear arsenal, as the existing one is unsustainable. 

Our military has already bore the brunt of obama's cost cutting measures.  Obama gutted our defense budget to fund his socialism. 

[IB-DoD-Topline-Chart-1] 

So saying the military still needs to give more, is very lame. 

It is especially short sighted when you realize that the true number one goal of our federal government is to provide for the common defense.  

Here are Speaker Ryan's comments on the current state of our military: 
https://www.speaker.gov/general/here-s-why-we-need-rebuild-military


__________________
Originally Posted by Fresh
"before the election a d Iowa sId hi.self that there was nothing to it"
WTF?
uwApoligist

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Posts: 10,670
Reply with quote  #87 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fresh


Why do you guys feel it's necessary to paraphrase what we say before you comment?

Have you read dewey's comments?  Continuously they paraphrase and misstate. 

BTW my club story did not hinge on the 1/3 number.  Put whatever number you want in there.  It still runs true.  

__________________
Originally Posted by Fresh
"before the election a d Iowa sId hi.self that there was nothing to it"
WTF?
TheNarrator

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Posts: 5,858
Reply with quote  #88 
1% across the board.

Best idea out there

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Dewey/Will_I_Wynn is our forum moderator and is allowing a poster to call for the assassination of our President
Will_I_Wynn

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Posts: 1,953
Reply with quote  #89 
If you take away annual cost of living increases to SS and Medicare doctor reimbursements, and add a 1% annual reduction in these payments to boot, in several years SS benefits and doctor repayments would be valued at one half of what they used to be worth.  This 1% idea is a guaranteed failure to retirees, Medicare benefits, defense, and every other important budget item.
__________________
A gullible nation is a vulnerable nation.  Challenge what you read on the internet.  Our nation's security is in our hands.  Don't be duped by misinformation.

The Right in here are quoting posts and changing words.  Please search for original post if accurate information is desired.  Also, claims I moderate this discussion forum are untrue.

Obama -  "When I say if you have your plan and you like it, and your doctor has a plan -- or you have a doctor and you like your doctor, that you don't have to change plans, what I'm saying is the government is not going to make you change plans under health reform."

Just because I refuse to criminalize abortion/adultery/offensive speech doesn't mean I favor it.


uwApoligist

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Posts: 10,670
Reply with quote  #90 
Clearly taxes are going up anytime soon.  So you have debt or you have cuts.   We have already shown why debt is bad, as it eats into available funds reducing the effective budget even further. 

By taking some austerity measures now we can get our spending under control, and start to curb our existing debt, freeing up budget to spend on these important goals.

__________________
Originally Posted by Fresh
"before the election a d Iowa sId hi.self that there was nothing to it"
WTF?
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