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Fresh

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Reply with quote  #61 
Quote:
Originally Posted by CoachB25


I guess your other point is that anyone who thinks that they are entitled to keep their own money, who think that the government is too large and waste money and who think that entitlements have grown too big and so want government spending to be cut are not patriotic.  You now define patriotism as only a Democrat principle because you want big government that is unquestioned and uncontrolled while demanding that people pay up and keep their mouths shut.  Wow!


Why do you guys feel it's necessary to paraphrase what we say before you comment? It would be more honest to take the post, as written and work with that. Will's point is that exaggerating the percentages of the tax amount only provide a misleading accounting of it's impact. What he said was:

A married couple takes a $24,000 standard deduction and pays tax on about $86,000.  Tax is about $9900 or 9% of their $110,000 income.

Describing their tax burden as 33% is misleading because it doesn't take into account the standard or itemized deductions. 

THAT is what he said.

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keepinitreal

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Reply with quote  #62 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fresh
A trolling we will go, a trolling we will go......

I finally get it. Every time they act like they can't understand simple logic and make false claims.........

A trolling we will go, a trolling we will go.


GAF

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"Getting your motor revved about taking our guns is going to be what undoes your efforts."

"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
Will_I_Wynn

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Reply with quote  #63 
I do not find those who think differently than me to be unpatriotic and I would never describe them as such.  Please don't suggest I've done otherwise.  If you have read that somewhere, it may have been a member quoting me and changing my words.  I don't believe I have ever called anyone unpatriotic. 

I've said it's unfair to give today's Americans tax cuts when we're borrowing $666 billion more in 2017.  If we don't come together on spending over the next four or eight years, who will pay for the deficit we run up each year?  It's a shame to pass along the cost of our standard of living today to future generations. 

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A gullible nation is a vulnerable nation.  Challenge what you read on the internet.  Our nation's security is in our hands.  Don't be duped by misinformation.

The Right in here are quoting posts and changing words.  Please search for original post if accurate information is desired.  Also, claims I moderate this discussion forum are untrue.


     "In these times, I believe that social media has become evil."
Not sure we must blanket all social media but when anonymous adults attack other anonymous adults on the internet, one has to wonder what chance our kids have.

 Trump should be honest with the American people.


spazsdad

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Reply with quote  #64 
Let me just sum this up by saying Dewey is a liar. He manipulates numbers and uses misleading info to try and prove his point to to the 50k. He keeps hoping hat nobody will call out his bogus claims even though he always gets caught
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Will_I_Wynn

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Reply with quote  #65 
Who said whining was unpatriotic?  I'm just pointing out that sacrificing tax dollars is nothing compared to the sacrifice others make.  Accusing our Government of stealing from our citizens (an argument made by another) is quite a stretch and at the top of the whine list.
__________________
A gullible nation is a vulnerable nation.  Challenge what you read on the internet.  Our nation's security is in our hands.  Don't be duped by misinformation.

The Right in here are quoting posts and changing words.  Please search for original post if accurate information is desired.  Also, claims I moderate this discussion forum are untrue.


     "In these times, I believe that social media has become evil."
Not sure we must blanket all social media but when anonymous adults attack other anonymous adults on the internet, one has to wonder what chance our kids have.

 Trump should be honest with the American people.


keepinitreal

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Reply with quote  #66 
Quote:
Originally Posted by uwApoligist
You have a club with everyone in the US required as mandatory membership.  The club president passes a rule, says everyone has to give the club 1/3 of the money they make.  No real explanation for why.   

The club largely pisses away all of the money.  They piss away some on hookers directly, booze, dinners.  They piss away a ton by giving it to their drug addict friends who claim they are going to get something to eat but always end up distracted and buying drugs.  A lot they piss away on countries that turn around and do hateful/sh!tty things to the club. 

A bunch is given to freeloaders for Cadillac healthcare while people in the club often have to work extra jobs to play the club fees and have to pay 40% copays to go to a doctor.   A bunch is given to freeloaders that cross the boarder illegally in a failed attempt to prop up the voting ranks of a failed faction of the club.

A bunch of people decide they do not like paying for the club and stop paying.  The club president decides that is bullspit and passes a rule that says the club can steal their money right from their paychecks.

Club gets a new president.  He listens to the club members, and says, you know what, you are right, that is too much money to piss away on a bunch of sh!t no one really wants anyway.  And he cuts their club dues.  Also stops wasting money on illegal aliens propping up failed club factions, and giving money to countries that are sh!tty to the club.

The membership get a warm comfy feeling.  Their 401k's skyrocket.  They get raises at work.  Their jobs go from iffy/tenious to very stable.  Their homes jump in value.  They have visions of paying for their kids college (ok, this one is a stretch,but it is a nice comfy dreamy world).

They fall in love with their new club president and really start dig being in this club.

__________________
"Getting your motor revved about taking our guns is going to be what undoes your efforts."

"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
keepinitreal

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Posts: 29,172
Reply with quote  #67 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Will_I_Wynn
Who said whining was unpatriotic?


Coach just did

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"Getting your motor revved about taking our guns is going to be what undoes your efforts."

"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
uwApoligist

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Posts: 12,864
Reply with quote  #68 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Will_I_Wynn
Who said whining was unpatriotic?  I'm just pointing out that sacrificing tax dollars is nothing compared to the sacrifice others make.  Accusing our Government of stealing from our citizens (an argument made by another) is quite a stretch and at the top of the whine list.

Our country was founded by people that thought Englands tax collectors were stealing our money.

That was the whole point.  So it is very patriotic.

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keepinitreal

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Reply with quote  #69 
Are you confusing dewy with American history?
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"Getting your motor revved about taking our guns is going to be what undoes your efforts."

"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
Will_I_Wynn

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Posts: 2,893
Reply with quote  #70 
Without taxes, there is no USA.

If we borrow another $666 billion to cover deficit in 2018, I have three questions.  Who will pay off that loan?  Why should somebody else be obligated for this loan?  If we suffer another deficit in 2018, should we move to more tax cuts in 2019?

The Left will ask our Representatives to raise taxes to cover our annual deficit and the Right will ask them to cut spending to balance our budget.  What the Left won't do is ask for our Representatives to cut our taxes, which reduce revenue and lead to more borrowing.  This action only passes the buck to others.

__________________
A gullible nation is a vulnerable nation.  Challenge what you read on the internet.  Our nation's security is in our hands.  Don't be duped by misinformation.

The Right in here are quoting posts and changing words.  Please search for original post if accurate information is desired.  Also, claims I moderate this discussion forum are untrue.


     "In these times, I believe that social media has become evil."
Not sure we must blanket all social media but when anonymous adults attack other anonymous adults on the internet, one has to wonder what chance our kids have.

 Trump should be honest with the American people.


EarlyGrayce

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Reply with quote  #71 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Will_I_Wynn
Layabouts steal money from Americans and pi** it away. 

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uwApoligist

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Reply with quote  #72 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Will_I_Wynn
Without taxes, there is no USA.

If we borrow another $666 billion to cover deficit in 2018, I have three questions.  Who will pay off that loan?  Why should somebody else be obligated for this loan?  If we suffer another deficit in 2018, should we move to more tax cuts in 2019?

The Left will ask our Representatives to raise taxes to cover our annual deficit and the Right will ask them to cut spending to balance our budget.  What the Left won't do is ask for our Representatives to cut our taxes, which reduce revenue and lead to more borrowing.  This action only passes the buck to others.

There was no legal way to collect income taxes until 1913 ratification of the 16th Amendment.  So the country has existed much longer without taxes than it has with taxes.

We should make cuts to reduce spending burden and ensure there is not a deficit in 2018.  With our current growth rate there is a chance the budget shortfalls are minor, if that happens do you support additional Tax cuts?

The left blocks spending cuts, which raises debt.

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keepinitreal

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Reply with quote  #73 
Quote:
Originally Posted by uwApoligist



The left blocks spending cuts, which raises debt.


Dewy hates spending cuts

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"Getting your motor revved about taking our guns is going to be what undoes your efforts."

"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
EarlyGrayce

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Reply with quote  #74 
Yes he does. Seems hard for libs to accept that there is huge amounts of overspending and wasteful overlapping bureaucracies inherent in huge government. Trump and Congress make cuts and demand accountability, there will be much more effective spending. The children wont starve after all.
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TheNarrator

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Reply with quote  #75 
He already said there is nowhere to cut.

Not quite sure that’s possible.
Fresh

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Reply with quote  #76 
Not the only place, but the defense budget probably has the most easily attacked abuses. trump started out getting Boeing to cut the expense on Air Force 1. There are other areas that could realize similar efficiency cuts. Defense contractor lobbyists should be held to a minimum of influence. There is bloat in our welfare system and this should be addressed. I have no desire to provide housing for a recipients boyfriend, so he can avoid having to work. I do worry about the recipients innocent children and have problems coming to terms with caring for the children and evicting the boyfriend. It would almost require monthly visits by government monitors. To reject school breakfast and lunch programs removes the purest form our welfare should take. Ignoring the defense bloat is also wrong. I'm sure there are ways to address it, but as long as everyone wants it to be somebody else's piece of the pie that gets cut, we'll get nowhere. Abusing our defense budget for personal gain may be the most unpatriotic action imaginable. 
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pabar61

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Reply with quote  #77 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fresh
Not the only place, but the defense budget probably has the most easily attacked abuses. trump started out getting Boeing to cut the expense on Air Force 1. There are other areas that could realize similar efficiency cuts. Defense contractor lobbyists should be held to a minimum of influence. There is bloat in our welfare system and this should be addressed. I have no desire to provide housing for a recipients boyfriend, so he can avoid having to work. I do worry about the recipients innocent children and have problems coming to terms with caring for the children and evicting the boyfriend. It would almost require monthly visits by government monitors. To reject school breakfast and lunch programs removes the purest form our welfare should take. Ignoring the defense bloat is also wrong. I'm sure there are ways to address it, but as long as everyone wants it to be somebody else's piece of the pie that gets cut, we'll get nowhere. Abusing our defense budget for personal gain may be the most unpatriotic action imaginable. 


Hard to argue with much of this but if the purpose of cutting spending is to reduce the deficit and bring down the national debt, then we have to look at social security and medicare.  There's no other way.

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Will I Wynn is a poster who used to go by the name of Dewey.  He used to criticize people who did that.

"Once you open your eyes, it's impossible to be a Democrat." - CJ Pearson
Fresh

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Reply with quote  #78 
I'm almost 68 and agree. The scale for retirement has to be reworked. People are living longer and it's not like the SS money is sitting there drawing interest to allow for the additional years people are eligible. Probably need to extend the upper limits on deductions and cut wealthy people payouts altogether. 
Medicare........how do we cut expenses without going to single payer? We need one medical system to take care of all Americans. Negotiate drug prices and doctor fees to a reasonable level. Factor costs into income tax and giterdone. The young that generally make less would pay less. The older people that use it more would, by their higher income, pay more. I don't think there's any other answer. There will be abuse, but there is in any system. You can't legislate honesty. The doctors would have to be allowed to determine need. We might have to legislate some protection for doctors that withold what they deem unnecessary treatment that results in a serious health issue. Malpractice claims could be a problem.

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uwApoligist

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Reply with quote  #79 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fresh
I'm almost 68 and agree. The scale for retirement has to be reworked. People are living longer and it's not like the SS money is sitting there drawing interest to allow for the additional years people are eligible. Probably need to extend the upper limits on deductions and cut wealthy people payouts altogether. 
Medicare........how do we cut expenses without going to single payer? We need one medical system to take care of all Americans. Negotiate drug prices and doctor fees to a reasonable level. Factor costs into income tax and giterdone. The young that generally make less would pay less. The older people that use it more would, by their higher income, pay more. I don't think there's any other answer. There will be abuse, but there is in any system. You can't legislate honesty. The doctors would have to be allowed to determine need. We might have to legislate some protection for doctors that withold what they deem unnecessary treatment that results in a serious health issue. Malpractice claims could be a problem.

SS promised if you pay in you receive out.  It is a retirement fund.  Cutting wealthy payouts would break that key promise. 

They could come up with a system if you make above X, you can opt out of SS, then those with healthy 401ks can stop contributing and not receive payouts.   Otherwise SS becomes a true tax, and it was never passed as a true Tax, it was passed as a retirement fund that all contributed to and all receive from. 

Upping the retirement age, and turning SS disability back into a 'true' disability package would likely do most of what we need.

Single payer would be a nightmare.  Government has already proven they have no ability to control cost.  So der da der let's give them more control.   That is not how it works.  If government really wanted to control costs they could do it by price setting now, they control like 46% of the the healthcare spend now.  Looking at Medicare, Obamacare, Medicaid, and VA spending.  If they wanted to set prices, they could.

Government should do big data and trend analysis like the great private sector companies Amazon, Google, Expedia are doing.  

Move indigents out of Cadillac healthcare system into low cost marketplace.  Indigents have no concept of cost control and consume healthcare at an alarming rate.  Especially the drug addicts.  By putting them into high cost control environment you contain the part that is eating the system alive now.  Push the funding down to the state level and states can decide how best to control costs, they are much better than the feds at this.  Plus states can experiment with what works for their people.

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uwApoligist

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Reply with quote  #80 
By the way.  Most that support the 1% across the board reductions until the budget is balanced and our debt is on a path to getting payed off include the military spend in that number. 

There is certainly cuts in waste in our military.  Trump admin recently exposed the $125B in bureaucratic waste.  Unfortunately our military has fallen quite into disrepair.  They have to modernize their nuclear arsenal, as the existing one is unsustainable. 

Our military has already bore the brunt of obama's cost cutting measures.  Obama gutted our defense budget to fund his socialism. 

[IB-DoD-Topline-Chart-1] 

So saying the military still needs to give more, is very lame. 

It is especially short sighted when you realize that the true number one goal of our federal government is to provide for the common defense.  

Here are Speaker Ryan's comments on the current state of our military: 
https://www.speaker.gov/general/here-s-why-we-need-rebuild-military


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uwApoligist

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Reply with quote  #81 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fresh


Why do you guys feel it's necessary to paraphrase what we say before you comment?

Have you read dewey's comments?  Continuously they paraphrase and misstate. 

BTW my club story did not hinge on the 1/3 number.  Put whatever number you want in there.  It still runs true.  

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TheNarrator

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Reply with quote  #82 
1% across the board.

Best idea out there
Will_I_Wynn

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Reply with quote  #83 
If you take away annual cost of living increases to SS and Medicare doctor reimbursements, and add a 1% annual reduction in these payments to boot, in several years SS benefits and doctor repayments would be valued at one half of what they used to be worth.  This 1% idea is a guaranteed failure to retirees, Medicare benefits, defense, and every other important budget item.
__________________
A gullible nation is a vulnerable nation.  Challenge what you read on the internet.  Our nation's security is in our hands.  Don't be duped by misinformation.

The Right in here are quoting posts and changing words.  Please search for original post if accurate information is desired.  Also, claims I moderate this discussion forum are untrue.


     "In these times, I believe that social media has become evil."
Not sure we must blanket all social media but when anonymous adults attack other anonymous adults on the internet, one has to wonder what chance our kids have.

 Trump should be honest with the American people.


uwApoligist

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Posts: 12,864
Reply with quote  #84 
Clearly taxes are going up anytime soon.  So you have debt or you have cuts.   We have already shown why debt is bad, as it eats into available funds reducing the effective budget even further. 

By taking some austerity measures now we can get our spending under control, and start to curb our existing debt, freeing up budget to spend on these important goals.

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Will_I_Wynn

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Reply with quote  #85 
I can almost guarantee you, despite a GOP controlled Government, our $4T spending in 2017 will go up a bit in 2018, 2019, 2020, and each and every year after that.  It's clear to me we'll continue to borrow and borrow from future generations as this society, currently with a GOP controlled Government, has no intention to pay the necessary taxes to fund the spending we've elected our representatives to put into place.
__________________
A gullible nation is a vulnerable nation.  Challenge what you read on the internet.  Our nation's security is in our hands.  Don't be duped by misinformation.

The Right in here are quoting posts and changing words.  Please search for original post if accurate information is desired.  Also, claims I moderate this discussion forum are untrue.


     "In these times, I believe that social media has become evil."
Not sure we must blanket all social media but when anonymous adults attack other anonymous adults on the internet, one has to wonder what chance our kids have.

 Trump should be honest with the American people.


TheNarrator

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Posts: 6,771
Reply with quote  #86 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Will_I_Wynn
If you take away annual cost of living increases to SS and Medicare doctor reimbursements, and add a 1% annual reduction in these payments to boot, in several years SS benefits and doctor repayments would be valued at one half of what they used to be worth.  This 1% idea is a guaranteed failure to retirees, Medicare benefits, defense, and every other important budget item.


You’ve already said there is nothing in the budget that can be cut - why even make this post?
Will_I_Wynn

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Posts: 2,893
Reply with quote  #87 
I've said Sen Paul tried to cut a little and was told by the GOP to go away.  This leads me to believe there's very little our Representatives are willing to cut and I would agree, I don't see many areas I'd be willing to cut either.

In the event they do find cuts somewhere, the cost of living application to SS benefits, Medicare payments, government payroll, welfare services, department budgets, etc., as well as the added expense of a larger population, will more than offset any cuts made and the $4T 2017 spending budget will be higher in 2018.  It's unfair to the American people to try and make them believe a Government can spend less in a subsequent year.  Inflation and population growth make that nearly impossible.  Yet the Right continues to make this highly improbable case to hopefully soften the negative effects the recent tax cut will have on our budget deficit.  In other words, make them believe we can keep more of our tax money because we can successfully reduce 2018 spending from 2017 spending.  It's another snake oil sale attempt.

__________________
A gullible nation is a vulnerable nation.  Challenge what you read on the internet.  Our nation's security is in our hands.  Don't be duped by misinformation.

The Right in here are quoting posts and changing words.  Please search for original post if accurate information is desired.  Also, claims I moderate this discussion forum are untrue.


     "In these times, I believe that social media has become evil."
Not sure we must blanket all social media but when anonymous adults attack other anonymous adults on the internet, one has to wonder what chance our kids have.

 Trump should be honest with the American people.


uwApoligist

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Posts: 12,864
Reply with quote  #88 
That is not true at all.  Adding spending cuts to the tax cuts bill would have bogged it down.  There was no reason to hold up relief for the real Americans that overly burdened by the draconian tax system.   So they did the Tax cuts first. 

I look forward to your support of cuts to support aligning our revenues with our spending.

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Will_I_Wynn

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Reply with quote  #89 
Yes, Sen Paul tried to add spending cuts and was rebuffed.  As for where 2018 goes, I'm on record as saying spending will be higher in 2018.  We'll see if I'm right or wrong.  I'll add it will be 5% higher which is about $4.2T.
__________________
A gullible nation is a vulnerable nation.  Challenge what you read on the internet.  Our nation's security is in our hands.  Don't be duped by misinformation.

The Right in here are quoting posts and changing words.  Please search for original post if accurate information is desired.  Also, claims I moderate this discussion forum are untrue.


     "In these times, I believe that social media has become evil."
Not sure we must blanket all social media but when anonymous adults attack other anonymous adults on the internet, one has to wonder what chance our kids have.

 Trump should be honest with the American people.


Fresh

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Posts: 4,909
Reply with quote  #90 
Does trump really have a hold on this money thing. Looks like he's treating the US like one of his casinos.

Stock market hitting new highs
Unemployment at 4.1%
Warren Buffet and Bill Gates can get that new Chevy truck they've been saving up for

On the flip side

Fewer jobs created than last year
Trade deficit higher than last year
Deficit numbers higher than last year

The Budget Deficit for 2017 Is Projected to Be Similar to Last Year’s

CBO’s baseline estimate of the 2017 deficit is $559 billion, or 2.9 percent of GDP—less than the $587 billion deficit posted in 2016. Both totals, however, are affected by shifts in the timing of some payments. Outlays in 2016—and thus the deficit—were boosted by $41 billion because certain payments that were to be made on October 1, 2016 (the first day of fiscal year 2017), were instead made in fiscal year 2016 because October 1 fell on a weekend.

For 2017, the net effect of those timing shifts and similar shifts in spending from fiscal year 2018 into fiscal year 2017 is to increase outlays by $4 billion. If not for those shifts, the deficit in 2016 would have been $546 billion (3.0 percent of GDP), and the deficit projected for 2017 would be $555 billion (2.9 percent of GDP).

How about that!
And fuggetabout 2018.
Quite a financial genius we got here.


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