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Will_I_Wynn

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Reply with quote  #121 
A rising deficit reaches $666 Billion and we say "Let's try reducing Government revenue and see how that works".  Basic math?  That's been my thinking.  What the heck are we doing?  We cut taxes in the Bush years and a revenue of $2T in 2000 became $2.1T eight years later.  We've been treading water ever since. 

As for the stock market, through eleven months Trump's market didn't match Obama's market when it came to percentage.  That's not to say it isn't on a roll, it is.  But there's been a dramatic surge since the tax bill passed and it should be no surprise as to why.  Thought I'd comment on it.



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keepinitreal

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Reply with quote  #122 
When your opponent complains incessantly, that's how you know you're standing on solid ground
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"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
pabar61

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Reply with quote  #123 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Will_I_Wynn
A rising deficit reaches $666 Billion and we say "Let's try reducing Government revenue and see how that works".  Basic math?  That's been my thinking.  What the heck are we doing?  We cut taxes in the Bush years and a revenue of $2T in 2000 became $2.1T eight years later.  We've been treading water ever since. 

As for the stock market, through eleven months Trump's market didn't match Obama's market when it came to percentage.  That's not to say it isn't on a roll, it is.  But there's been a dramatic surge since the tax bill passed and it should be no surprise as to why.  Thought I'd comment on it.




This is disingenuous to suggest that tax revenues suffered because of tax cuts.  The economy tanked and there was less income across the board to tax.  That's called basic math and basic economics.
uwApoligist

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Reply with quote  #124 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pabar61


The vast majority of the stock market surge occurred before the tax cuts were implemented.  The market reacted to Trump undoing hundreds of Obama's ridiculous regulations and a general mood that the economy is finally unshackled from Obama's attempts to socialize this country.

It is yet to be seen whether the tax cuts will result in lower tax revenues.  It may but it may not.  

With regard to rich families, again, they are mostly the owners of small businesses that do the majority of hiring in this country.  As well, they already pay a disproportionate share of the taxes in this country.

If you have truly suddenly found this new religion of being concerned about the debt (I doubt you have, it's just a way to bash a Republican), then the only way to do it over the long term is to cut spending on entitlements.  You just can't get there by continuing to increase taxes in order to pay for more and more government programs.  It's amazing to me that you leftists don't understand basic math.

You do not get to decide who gets credit for this booming economy.  The American people do.  Right now they credit Trump.  Things stay like this, Trump has little to worry about.

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I'm more getting a sense that willie wynn is dewey is a F'n loser. 
Fresh

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Reply with quote  #125 
Will, think I'm going to leave it with you. These dark web conservatives have outlived their usefullness to me. In the beginning, I was hearing things that were new to me, but they've become repetitive and are disinterested in the truth. Like their fearless leader, trump, they refuse to admit when they are on the wrong track or just plain clueless. All the good is a result of a republican president or congress and all the bad from their democratic counterparts. The constant need to demean the opposing individual and cut and paste conservative dogma is bringing nothing new to the table. I'll continue to check in now and then, but I'll be better served finding another source of conservative opinion. I can watch Fox and get the same stuff. The conversation has turned even more mean spirited than in the past. They sing to their own choir. 

Unfortunately, the quest for truth ain't in 'em.
This is not aimed at Mikec, Bill Smith or Bluedog. I believe they are sincere.

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The previous comment is an opinion. It came as the result of a lifetime of keen observation and spectacular failures. I did conclude this; hopefully, we learn as much from failure as we do from our accomplishments.
keepinitreal

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Reply with quote  #126 
Repetitive?  Come back when Mueller is done, oh wait.......
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"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
TheNarrator

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Reply with quote  #127 
Typical corporations are bad talk from someone that has no clue how profits and American ingenuity drive the economy
uwApoligist

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Reply with quote  #128 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fresh
Will, think I'm going to leave it with you. These dark web conservatives have outlived their usefullness to me. In the beginning, I was hearing things that were new to me, but they've become repetitive and are disinterested in the truth. Like their fearless leader, trump, they refuse to admit when they are on the wrong track or just plain clueless. All the good is a result of a republican president or congress and all the bad from their democratic counterparts. The constant need to demean the opposing individual and cut and paste conservative dogma is bringing nothing new to the table. I'll continue to check in now and then, but I'll be better served finding another source of conservative opinion. I can watch Fox and get the same stuff. The conversation has turned even more mean spirited than in the past. They sing to their own choir. 

Unfortunately, the quest for truth ain't in 'em.
This is not aimed at Mikec, Bill Smith or Bluedog. I believe they are sincere.

See you around.  Catch you on the flip side.

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I'm more getting a sense that willie wynn is dewey is a F'n loser. 
TheNarrator

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Reply with quote  #129 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fresh
The conversation has turned even more mean spirited than in the past. They sing to their own choir.


Says the person that calls people racist and Ivanka Trump a b1tch.

Edit to add:  And ran away from any substantive debate, even when given the chance to pick the subject.
spazsdad

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Reply with quote  #130 
By Freshie.
We will add your name to the list of liberals that have come here thinking they knew it all and would set us dumb rednecks straight only to suffer an intellectual beat down and slink away licking their wounds. Of course, like you, their parting shot was always based on the fallacy that they won and we are all just too tiring and inferior to see the great intellectual ways of libs

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#SCOTUS

uwApoligist

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Reply with quote  #131 
Quote:
Originally Posted by uwApoligist

See you around.  Catch you on the flip side.

Oh wait!  Do me a favor ...  Say hey to KPI when you get a chance.  

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I'm more getting a sense that willie wynn is dewey is a F'n loser. 
Will_I_Wynn

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Reply with quote  #132 
"You do not get to decide who gets credit for this booming economy."

The fact is we all do.  We added $47 billion to Government revenue in FY2017 (1.4%).  The job participation rate was lower in December than January and jobs added in 2017 were lowest number in the last six or so years.  The economy is continuing to roll along at a decent level but some are over-hyping the results in order to make President Trump look special.  This is precisely why it's good to have someone on the Left give the other side of the story.


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A gullible nation is a vulnerable nation.  Challenge what you read on the internet.  Our nation's security is in our hands.  Don't be duped by misinformation.

The Right in here are quoting posts and changing words.  Please search for original post if accurate information is desired.




TheNarrator

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Reply with quote  #133 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Will_I_Wynn
 This is precisely why it's good to have someone on the Left give the other side of the story.


Or your version of it.  You are as bad, or worse, than those on the right giving President Trump credit for no airline fatalities.
CoachB25

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Reply with quote  #134 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Will_I_Wynn
"You do not get to decide who gets credit for this booming economy."

The fact is we all do.  We added $47 billion to Government revenue in FY2017 (1.4%).  The job participation rate was lower in December than January and jobs added in 2017 were lowest number in the last six or so years.  The economy is continuing to roll along at a decent level but some are over-hyping the results in order to make President Trump look special.  This is precisely why it's good to have someone on the Left give the other side of the story.



The jobs number for December has already been proven to be skewed.  The estimates were off due to using different numbers for calculations.  If I were Trump, I'd find out who changed all of the rules suddenly to use different calculations.  

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Those mountains in front of you will seem like little hills when you are beyond them and they are in the past!
uwApoligist

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Reply with quote  #135 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheNarrator


Or your version of it.  You are as bad, or worse, than those on the right giving President Trump credit for no airline fatalities.

no airline fatalities... hmm.  I had not heard that one.  impressive.

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I'm more getting a sense that willie wynn is dewey is a F'n loser. 
Will_I_Wynn

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Reply with quote  #136 
There are many threads to champion President Trump.  Many opportunities to hype or praise what he has done and many threads to express the belief everyone is against him.  The press is against him, the FBI, the intelligence community, the DOJ, the RNC, the BLS, the Fed, election officials, the courts, CNN, the Generals, and Steve Bannon to name a few.  There are many threads open to making claims Democrats are insane, blind, or just plain wrong.  Members who support the "Right view of the story"  are free to do it here as well but this thread will continue to offer up the other side of the story for open minded individuals to take into consideration.   
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A gullible nation is a vulnerable nation.  Challenge what you read on the internet.  Our nation's security is in our hands.  Don't be duped by misinformation.

The Right in here are quoting posts and changing words.  Please search for original post if accurate information is desired.




TheNarrator

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Reply with quote  #137 
And there are those of us here that will factually refute your stories as you make them up.
uwApoligist

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Reply with quote  #138 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Will_I_Wynn
There are many threads to champion President Trump.  Many opportunities to hype or praise what he has done and many threads to express the belief everyone is against him.  The press is against him, the FBI, the intelligence community, the DOJ, the RNC, the BLS, the Fed, election officials, the courts, CNN, the Generals, and Steve Bannon to name a few.  There are many threads open to making claims Democrats are insane, blind, or just plain wrong.  Members who support the "Right view of the story"  are free to do it here as well but this thread will continue to be boresome and chuck full of drivel for the not so open minded individuals to take into consideration.   

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I'm more getting a sense that willie wynn is dewey is a F'n loser. 
EarlyGrayce

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Reply with quote  #139 
Quote:
Originally Posted by spazsdad
By Freshie. We will add your name to the list of liberals that have come here thinking they knew it all and would set us dumb rednecks straight only to suffer an intellectual beat down and slink away licking their wounds. Of course, like you, their parting shot was always based on the fallacy that they won and we are all just too tiring and inferior to see the great intellectual ways of libs


Exactly right. Another notch on our bedpost.

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"Dewey's attempt to return:  The biggest scandal on the UCS forum in 2017." 
Will_I_Wynn

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Reply with quote  #140 
"This is disingenuous to suggest that tax revenues suffered because of tax cuts."


Here is the record under President Bush:

Year              Actual Revenue              What revenue should have been

2000              $2.03T                          $2.03T
2001              $2.00T                          $2.13T
2002              $1.85T                          $2.23T
2003              $1.78T                          $2.34T
2004              $1.88T                          $2.46T
2005              $2.15T                          $2.58T
2006              $2.40T                          $2.71T
2007              $2.57T                          $2.85T
2008              $2.52T                          $2.99T
2009              $2.10T                          $3.14T

Even if we stop at 2008, prior to the collapse, and even if we agree other factors affected tax revenue, it seems clear tax cuts contributed to lower revenues from where we otherwise would have been.  Not sure why the Right is adamant about blaming every other factor but lower tax rates for our drop in revenue.

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A gullible nation is a vulnerable nation.  Challenge what you read on the internet.  Our nation's security is in our hands.  Don't be duped by misinformation.

The Right in here are quoting posts and changing words.  Please search for original post if accurate information is desired.




TheNarrator

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Reply with quote  #141 
about as adamant as you are about not blaming the left for the increase in spending.
pabar61

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Reply with quote  #142 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Will_I_Wynn
"This is disingenuous to suggest that tax revenues suffered because of tax cuts."


Here is the record under President Bush:

Year              Actual Revenue              What revenue should have been

2000              $2.03T                          $2.03T
2001              $2.00T                          $2.13T
2002              $1.85T                          $2.23T
2003              $1.78T                          $2.34T
2004              $1.88T                          $2.46T
2005              $2.15T                          $2.58T
2006              $2.40T                          $2.71T
2007              $2.57T                          $2.85T
2008              $2.52T                          $2.99T
2009              $2.10T                          $3.14T

Even if we stop at 2008, prior to the collapse, and even if we agree other factors affected tax revenue, it seems clear tax cuts contributed to lower revenues from where we otherwise would have been.  Not sure why the Right is adamant about blaming every other factor but lower tax rates for our drop in revenue.


Correlation does not equal causation.  Try to show us the actual relationship.  And where do you get your what revenue should have been numbers?
Will_I_Wynn

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Reply with quote  #143 
From 1980-1990 we doubled in size in Government revenue ($.519T to $1.031T) and from 1990-2000 we doubled again ($1.031T to $2.025T).  I used a more conservative number to try and be fair in my comparison of the Bush years.  Some would use our past history and say our revenue should be $4T in 2010 and they would have a good point.  Tax cuts from the Bush Administration are surely killing us when it comes to tax revenue.

It is very difficult to convince those on the Right that tax cuts are stifling Government revenue but it's very easy to use the exact revenue numbers from previous years to make a case they are hurting us dearly.

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A gullible nation is a vulnerable nation.  Challenge what you read on the internet.  Our nation's security is in our hands.  Don't be duped by misinformation.

The Right in here are quoting posts and changing words.  Please search for original post if accurate information is desired.




TheNarrator

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Reply with quote  #144 
So you literally made those numbers up
pabar61

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Reply with quote  #145 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Will_I_Wynn
From 1980-1990 we doubled in size in Government revenue ($.519T to $1.031T) and from 1990-2000 we doubled again ($1.031T to $2.025T).  I used a more conservative number to try and be fair in my comparison of the Bush years.  Some would use our past history and say our revenue should be $4T in 2010 and they would have a good point.  Tax cuts from the Bush Administration are surely killing us when it comes to tax revenue.

It is very difficult to convince those on the Right that tax cuts are stifling Government revenue but it's very easy to use the exact revenue numbers from previous years to make a case they are hurting us dearly.


So what the revenue should have been comes from you.  You, who is not an economist, who is a novice when it comes to how the government works, who really has no professional basis to make any kind of analysis like that.

Bottom line is that you clearly don't understand the very basic idea of how keeping more capital in the private markets spurs economic activity which increases the tax base. 

Your entire analysis should be dismissed by the readers as the ramblings of a lying, hypocritical, hyper-partisan name-changer.
Will_I_Wynn

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Reply with quote  #146 
If multiple historical examples show us the US Government doubles its revenue every ten years, I can easily make the case it will double again in the next ten years.  However, I reduced this estimate of where our revenue should have been, based on historical evidence, in order to be more conservative in my case.

Here is another one.  In 1984-1994 we went from $.67T to $1.26T, a little under double (88%).  I reduced my estimate to 55% in the example above.
.

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A gullible nation is a vulnerable nation.  Challenge what you read on the internet.  Our nation's security is in our hands.  Don't be duped by misinformation.

The Right in here are quoting posts and changing words.  Please search for original post if accurate information is desired.




keepinitreal

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Reply with quote  #147 
You guys definitely get a trophy and by your participation here, [you 3 + dewy] are the only open-minded members of 50,000 visitors here.  Great job to all, take a bow for what you have done for the readers.

Don't believe the internet but believe dewy's fake numbers

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"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
Will_I_Wynn

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Posts: 1,143
Reply with quote  #148 
"So you literally made those numbers up?"

I used 5% annual revenue growth which was a smaller and more conservative number than the previous two decades of financial history showed.

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A gullible nation is a vulnerable nation.  Challenge what you read on the internet.  Our nation's security is in our hands.  Don't be duped by misinformation.

The Right in here are quoting posts and changing words.  Please search for original post if accurate information is desired.




EarlyGrayce

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Reply with quote  #149 
So, that would be Yes.
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"Dewey's attempt to return:  The biggest scandal on the UCS forum in 2017." 
pabar61

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Reply with quote  #150 
By the way, we're all arguing the wrong thing.

I, for one, want tax revenues to not go up.  That just means an ever-increasing government footprint.  The best way to limit the impact of the federal government, what all true patriots know to be best, is to limit how much it can piss away on meaningless BS.

Here is what I want the government to do - provide a temporary safety net for people who have fallen on hard times and keep us safe from threats.  That's it.  That's all it was ever intended to do and all it should do.  Everything else should be handled by state and local governments.

Social security is unnecessary and should be very slowly phased out so that nobody who currently relies on it is impacted.  All health protection should occur in the private sector or state by state.  We should move to a flat tax and abolish the IRS.  The government doesn't need to manage education - shut down the department of education. Privatize Amtrak and the postal service.  End the ridiculously unaffordable pensions that government workers don't have to do much to earn.

We are so off from our founding ideals that we've lost track of what this country is really all about.
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