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Will_I_Wynn

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Reply with quote  #1 
There is far too much spin and misinformation thrown about for open minded folks to obtain a clear picture about most subjects.  Far too much partisanship to sort through.  Around here we get "Democrats are insane", "Behind Libtard lines", "Obama failed as a President", "Clinton's are criminals", and "Russia investigation is a hoax".  All biased perspectives with mostly inaccurate or unsubstantiated information.

No doubt this satisfies people on the Right.  They have almost zero interest in the view of the Left and will have little interest in this thread.  However, if the left perspective is of any interest, if the other side of the story has meaning to you, then we'll try to provide some here.

The economy does continue to grow as does the stock market.  Assuming the new tax law does not harm the economy, President Trump has done nothing to stifle our growth.  But the hype behind his first year is mostly just that.

For instance, the jobs added in 2017 were lowest since 2011 and the labor participation rate remains low as well.  The first year percentage gain in stock market was similar to President Obama's first year, if not less.  Finally, the deficit for last year ended at $666 billion, worse than the previous year.  There is no reason to criticize President Trump over the economy but also no reason for the ongoing over-the-top praise.
https://thinkprogress.org/trump-job-boom-actually-the-fewest-number-of-jobs-created-in-the-last-6-years-0465cb9b54c2/

The Right often criticized the Obama Administration positive economic numbers by saying Fed was propping up the numbers and the Labor Department was cooking the books.  Well, we have mostly the same people in charge of both and those criticizms have mostly disappeared as Trump embraces the mostly good economic numbers.  Yes, one can't deny our economic growth but one can put it into a more realistic perspective. 

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TheNarrator

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Reply with quote  #2 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Will_I_Wynn
There is far too much spin and misinformation thrown about for open minded folks to obtain a clear picture about most subjects.  Far too much partisanship to sort through. 


People aren't smart enough to read and make up thier own minds.

Drink
Emptynester

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Reply with quote  #3 
Still so happy I found the forum. Drink and save the children Fridays.
uwApoligist

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Reply with quote  #4 
Wrong.  We said obama's numbers were propped up by the non-stop printing of money.  That is what devalued our currency and made what Americans were actually taking home go down.

Trumps Stock market rise was record setting. It came after many months of rise already, which is much harder than Obama first year, which was just after a crash.

Labor participation rate is most closely monitored by u-6 and that is extremely low right now 8%.  It has not been under 10 during all of Obama presidency. 

All indications are that Trumps Tax Cuts are going to do, as expected, very well for the American people.  Companies are sending more home with workers, while expanding their businesses.  Companies bringing money home from oversees will actually increase revenue to the government, while bringing those funds home will insure they are invested in our economy. 

Your concern for the debt is laughable and everyone knows it.

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I'm more getting a sense that willie wynn is dewey is a F'n loser. 
EarlyGrayce

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Reply with quote  #5 
dewey starts ANOTHER thread to dilute his sh1t further. It never ends.
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"Dewey's attempt to return:  The biggest scandal on the UCS forum in 2017." 
EarlyGrayce

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Reply with quote  #6 
I wanted to post that ass-drag doggo but too lazy to find him.
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"Dewey's attempt to return:  The biggest scandal on the UCS forum in 2017." 
Will_I_Wynn

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Reply with quote  #7 
President Obama was often criticized for a low labor participation rate.  The UE was so low the Right searched out another stat to hang around his neck.  They found the labor participation rate and, as the link shows, it continues around the same rate today as before.  The Right also criticized President Obama for number of people not in workforce.  As shown above, number is now highest on record at 95.5 million. 

https://data.bls.gov/timeseries/LNS11300000

As for the Fed, whatever steps they took, they helped pull us out of a recession and turned the economy around.  They've done such a good job most are still there.  This criticizm of printing money is another example of spin that open minded folks must wade through to reach the other side of the story.

Edit:  Corporate tax cuts will likely lead to workers getting more take home pay.  Agreed.  At least for the short term.  For Corporations to keep the entire windfall would be to disrespect their workforce beyond words.  As for wealthy individuals getting tax cuts, the Left believes future generations will be paying for their windfall.  There was absolutely no reason, from the perspective of the Left, to give wealthy people tax relief after we just borrowed $666 billion last year.  No reason other than to satisfy political donors.

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A gullible nation is a vulnerable nation.  Challenge what you read on the internet.  Our nation's security is in our hands.  Don't be duped by misinformation.

The Right in here are quoting posts and changing words.  Please search for original post if accurate information is desired.




uwApoligist

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Reply with quote  #8 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Will_I_Wynn
President Obama was often criticized for a low labor participation rate.  The UE was so low the Right searched out another stat to hang around his neck.  They found the labor participation rate and, as the link shows, it continues around the same rate today as before.  The Right also criticized President Obama for number of people not in workforce.  As shown above, number is now highest on record at 95.5 million. 

https://data.bls.gov/timeseries/LNS11300000

As for the Fed, whatever steps they took, they helped pull us out of a recession and turned the economy around.  They've done such a good job most are still there.  This criticizm of printing money is another example of spin that open minded folks must wade through to reach the other side of the story.

First round of QE produced the cash they bailed out the carmakers and a few financial institutions.  It is pretty much agreed at this point QE-2 and QE-3 held our economy back by eroding the value of the dollar. 

See the chart here: 
https://www.cnbc.com/2016/07/08/charts-whats-the-real-unemployment-rate.html 

Why so many threads, why so many handles.  Do you really drag your arse around on the carpet?

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I'm more getting a sense that willie wynn is dewey is a F'n loser. 
Fresh

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Reply with quote  #9 
From WSJ:

"Nonfarm payrolls rose a seasonally adjusted 148,000 in December, the Labor Department said Friday. That brought employment gains for the year to 2.1 million, the seventh straight year of increases exceeding two million. It is only the second time on record—the other being in the 1990s—when the economy has produced jobs at that pace for that long."

6 years under Obama over 2 million, 2.1 under trump would be lower end of the scale. Good numbers, but nothing to act like god's gift to the country. Just a continuation of the successful Obama policies. We'll see how things progress next year as trump's policies will start to take hold. Things do look good.
CoachB25

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Reply with quote  #10 
Does anyone remember way back in the day when I posted a link that was from some economic source, I forget, where they talked about "jobs created" and the fact that if McDonalds fired a worker and then hired another one, it was a job created.  In that same link, there was the story of a worker who quite one job and took two part time jobs.  Both part time jobs were counted as "jobs created."  Some of these economic terms are nothing more than attempts to deceive the American People and both parties do it.  
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Those mountains in front of you will seem like little hills when you are beyond them and they are in the past!
Will_I_Wynn

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Reply with quote  #11 
When somebody says it's "pretty much agreed" or "everyone knows it", that's a very good indicator the other side of the story needs to be investigated.  That said, what most of us do understand is the economy has improved over the last nine years and both Presidents rightly deserve some credit.
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A gullible nation is a vulnerable nation.  Challenge what you read on the internet.  Our nation's security is in our hands.  Don't be duped by misinformation.

The Right in here are quoting posts and changing words.  Please search for original post if accurate information is desired.




EarlyGrayce

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Reply with quote  #12 
Quote:
Originally Posted by uwApoligist

First round of QE produced the cash they bailed out the carmakers and a few financial institutions.  It is pretty much agreed at this point QE-2 and QE-3 held our economy back by eroding the value of the dollar. 

See the chart here: 
https://www.cnbc.com/2016/07/08/charts-whats-the-real-unemployment-rate.html 

Why so many threads, why so many handles.  Do you really drag your arse around on the carpet?


Dewey won't be looking at your chart. Soooo many handles. 

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"Dewey's attempt to return:  The biggest scandal on the UCS forum in 2017." 
Will_I_Wynn

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Reply with quote  #13 
- Debt

Individual takes over organization with $950,000 membership revenue and $1 million in organizational expenses.  Group loses $50,000 yearly and expenses are already cut to the bone.  New manager wants to raise price of membership but he's voted down.  Organization continues to lose money and increases their debt annually.

A new individual takes over group and reduces membership fee.  Never-mind they are losing money already.  Organization now loses $100,000 yearly and debt rises faster and faster.  Members shrug and say, "So what, the last guy ran up a debt too".



The distinction being made here is Democrats are willing to raise the revenue necessary to pay for the services Americans have signed up for.  Clinton's balanced budget is a good example  When the "no tax"  GOP pledge prevents a President from increasing revenue, debt will obviously continue to climb.  That's a fact.  Republicans then assume power and further reduce revenue with more tax cuts, thus driving deficit higher and ultimately driving our national debt much higher.  Maybe they figure both sides can raise debt and maybe nobody really cares.  Hopefully, Americans understand this important difference between the two parties.

That's the story on debt from the left perspective.  We're willing to raise the funds to balance the budget.  The Right will say expenses can be cut more but, while I suppose there is some truth to that, history shows spending has increased a small percent each and every year for decades and to tell Americans we can go from increase to decrease in spending, despite inflation and growing population, is mostly a false promise to get backing for more tax cuts.



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A gullible nation is a vulnerable nation.  Challenge what you read on the internet.  Our nation's security is in our hands.  Don't be duped by misinformation.

The Right in here are quoting posts and changing words.  Please search for original post if accurate information is desired.




TheNarrator

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Reply with quote  #14 
Not understanding a topic he started.

Drink.
spazsdad

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Reply with quote  #15 
My favorite line of Obama BS was "jobs created OR SAVED" so when he paid off all his union cronies with the non stimulus money and they didn't pink slip the government cubicle dwellers well hidy ho those were jobs saved. 
Thank the Lord for saving those jobs

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pabar61

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Reply with quote  #16 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Will_I_Wynn
- Debt

Individual takes over organization with $950,000 membership revenue and $1 million in organizational expenses.  Group loses $50,000 yearly and expenses are already cut to the bone. Terrible analogy as there are numerous places in the federal government to cut expenses.  New manager wants to raise price of membership but he's voted down.  Because the top 1% of the members already pay over half the fees of the organization.  Organization continues to lose money and increases their debt annually.

A new individual takes over group and reduces membership fee.  Another failed analogy.  Completely ignores economic dynamics of supply and demand.  No mention of increased membership because of reduced fees.  Never-mind they are losing money already.  Organization now loses $100,000 yearly and debt rises faster and faster.  Members shrug and say, "So what, the last guy ran up a debt too".



The distinction being made here is Democrats are willing to raise the revenue necessary (increase taxes)  to pay for the services Americans have signed up for. Some Americans, not all.  Republican Congress's balanced budget is a good example  When the "no tax"  GOP pledge prevents a President from increasing revenue (taxes), debt will obviously continue to climb.  That's a fact.  No - that is a flawed opinion as it ignores the positive impact of tax cuts to the economy.  You're wrong.  Republicans then assume power and further reduce revenue with more tax cuts, thus driving deficit higher and ultimately driving our national debt much higher.  Wrong on all accounts.  Maybe they figure both sides can raise debt and maybe nobody really cares.  Maybe you are a hopelessly-out-of-touch amateur economist who doesn't understand the real world.  Hopefully, Americans understand this important difference between the two parties. They do - that is why Trump is president and Hillary is not.

That's the story on debt from the left perspective.  We're willing to raise the funds (taxes) to balance the budget (increase taxes all you want - if you don't address spending, you won't balance the budget).  The Right will say expenses can be cut more but, while I suppose there is some truth to that, history shows spending has increased a small percent each and every year for decades and to tell Americans we can go from increase to decrease in spending, despite inflation and growing population, is mostly a false promise to get backing for more tax cuts. No - while you're correct that spending has gone up, it's because RINOs have betrayed their conservative principles and joined the socialist Democrats in ignoring economic imperatives.


uwApoligist

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Reply with quote  #17 
You have a club with everyone in the US required as mandatory membership.  The club president passes a rule, says everyone has to give the club 1/3 of the money they make.  No real explanation for why.   

The club largely pisses away all of the money.  They piss away some on hookers directly, booze, dinners.  They piss away a ton by giving it to their drug addict friends who claim they are going to get something to eat but always end up distracted and buying drugs.  A lot they piss away on countries that turn around and do hateful/sh!tty things to the club. 

A bunch is given to freeloaders for Cadillac healthcare while people in the club often have to work extra jobs to play the club fees and have to pay 40% copays to go to a doctor.   A bunch is given to freeloaders that cross the boarder illegally in a failed attempt to prop up the voting ranks of a failed faction of the club.

A bunch of people decide they do not like paying for the club and stop paying.  The club president decides that is bullspit and passes a rule that says the club can steal their money right from their paychecks.

Club gets a new president.  He listens to the club members, and says, you know what, you are right, that is too much money to piss away on a bunch of sh!t no one really wants anyway.  And he cuts their club dues.  Also stops wasting money on illegal aliens propping up failed club factions, and giving money to countries that are sh!tty to the club.

The membership get a warm comfy feeling.  Their 401k's skyrocket.  They get raises at work.  Their jobs go from iffy/tenious to very stable.  Their homes jump in value.  They have visions of paying for their kids college (ok, this one is a stretch,but it is a nice comfy dreamy world).

They fall in love with their new club president and really start dig being in this club.

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I'm more getting a sense that willie wynn is dewey is a F'n loser. 
pabar61

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Reply with quote  #18 
A much better response than mine.  Dewey is a lying, hypocritical coward who tries to BS people with ridiculously incompetent analogies.
spazsdad

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Reply with quote  #19 
Great post uwA

ps Dewey, most Americans didn’t “sign up” for any of this schit

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Will_I_Wynn

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Reply with quote  #20 
I never promised the spin and misinformation would disappear.  I just noted the other side of the story could be found here if open minded people were interested.

Btw, remember the couple making $110,000?  Well their federal income tax obligation will be 9%.  Something to remember when spin tells us we fork up 1/3 of our income to the Feds.  Not exactly accurate for most of us.

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A gullible nation is a vulnerable nation.  Challenge what you read on the internet.  Our nation's security is in our hands.  Don't be duped by misinformation.

The Right in here are quoting posts and changing words.  Please search for original post if accurate information is desired.




spazsdad

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Reply with quote  #21 
Another condescending post by Dewey also fraught with lies.
Not many couples earning 100k/yr are members of clubs. That would be reserved for higher income earners that Dewey well knows pay more than 9%.
Why do Libs have to lie if their policies are so,popular

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keepinitreal

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Reply with quote  #22 
Quote:
Originally Posted by EarlyGrayce
I wanted to post that ass-drag doggo but too lazy to find him.


Just mentioning the doggo is enough

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"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
keepinitreal

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Reply with quote  #23 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Emptynester
Still so happy I found the forum. Drink and save the children Fridays.


This thread is doing great

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"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
pabar61

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Posts: 11,430
Reply with quote  #24 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Will_I_Wynn
I never promised the spin and misinformation would disappear.  I just noted the other side of the story could be found here if open minded people were interested.

Btw, remember the couple making $110,000?  Well their federal income tax obligation will be 9%.  Something to remember when spin tells us we fork up 1/3 of our income to the Feds.  Not exactly accurate for most of us.


How do you get 9%?

Here are the rates for married couples who file jointly.

Rate
Taxable Income Bracket
10%0 to $19,050
12%$19,050 to $77,400
22%$77,400 to $165,000
24%$165,000 to $315,000
32%$315,000 to $400,000
35%$400,000 to $600,000
37%$600,000 and up
Will_I_Wynn

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Reply with quote  #25 
A married couple takes a $24,000 standard deduction and pays tax on about $86,000.  Tax is about $9900 or 9% of their $110,000 income.  Telling open minded people they pay 1/3 of their income to the Federal Government is a tale spun in order to make taxation look like a bad thing.  As I've said before, I've seen young men and women sacrifice their lives for this Country with zero whining while those asked to sacrifice some money for this Country wig out.
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A gullible nation is a vulnerable nation.  Challenge what you read on the internet.  Our nation's security is in our hands.  Don't be duped by misinformation.

The Right in here are quoting posts and changing words.  Please search for original post if accurate information is desired.




CoachB25

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Reply with quote  #26 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Will_I_Wynn
A married couple takes a $24,000 standard deduction and pays tax on about $86,000.  Tax is about $9900 or 9% of their $110,000 income.  Telling open minded people they pay 1/3 of their income to the Federal Government is a tale spun in order to make taxation look like a bad thing.  As I've said before, I've seen young men and women sacrifice their lives for this Country with zero whining while those asked to sacrifice some money for this Country wig out.

In 2017, from what I understand a married couple filing jointly was able to take a standard deduction of $12,700.  Where did you get the $24,000 number from?

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Those mountains in front of you will seem like little hills when you are beyond them and they are in the past!
Will_I_Wynn

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Reply with quote  #27 
In 2017, this couple also received $8100 for their two exemptions moving standard deduction up to $20,800.  Besides, I was using the 2018 tax brackets provided in the question.  In 2018, this couple will pay about 9% to the Federal Government.  In 2017, this couple would have paid about 11%.  Neither of these numbers is close to 33 1/3%.
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A gullible nation is a vulnerable nation.  Challenge what you read on the internet.  Our nation's security is in our hands.  Don't be duped by misinformation.

The Right in here are quoting posts and changing words.  Please search for original post if accurate information is desired.




uwApoligist

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Reply with quote  #28 
Dewey you excited. You like my 'club' story?
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I'm more getting a sense that willie wynn is dewey is a F'n loser. 
pabar61

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Reply with quote  #29 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Will_I_Wynn
A married couple takes a $24,000 standard deduction and pays tax on about $86,000.  Tax is about $9900 or 9% of their $110,000 income.  Telling open minded people they pay 1/3 of their income to the Federal Government is a tale spun in order to make taxation look like a bad thing.  As I've said before, I've seen young men and women sacrifice their lives for this Country with zero whining while those asked to sacrifice some money for this Country wig out.


Wrong again.  How do you get $9,900?  The rate for $86K is 22%.
Will_I_Wynn

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Reply with quote  #30 
Taxable income is $86,000 in our example.  The way taxes work is 10% of the first $19,050 ($1905) then 12% of the next $58,350 ($7002) and 22% of the next $8600 ($1892).  I inadvertently used 12% for the entire balance and taxes would actually be $10,800 which is 9.8% of the couple's total income.
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A gullible nation is a vulnerable nation.  Challenge what you read on the internet.  Our nation's security is in our hands.  Don't be duped by misinformation.

The Right in here are quoting posts and changing words.  Please search for original post if accurate information is desired.




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