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Webfoot

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Reply with quote  #61 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3leftturns
Twice in nine years is NOT every year.

Plus, Oregon's increase in 2015 was minimal. $237K base for five WS in seven years and five Pac titles in six years is small potatoes.

And it looks even worse when the Ducks just keep renewing Horton at a half-million-plus year after year. The baseball team made the Sweet 16 exactly once during Mike White's tenure in Eugene. Horton, who lost that hosted super regional, has never made the CWS there and has never won a Pac title, finishing second once. The baseball team hasn't even made the field of 64 the past three seasons.

I want to see Oregon keep making World Series because of the great families still associated with the team. But, if they don't, the silver lining would be know-nothing schmucks such as yourself getting your comeuppance.


The SEC people here are right that you seem angry, combative  and bitter most of the time.
I figured out who you are on the Duck site.  Your the one who was still pissed
when Jane Sanders Stadium was built because they did not build a three field mega tri-plex off campus.  Exactly how much did you donate? 

And to be fair and in agreement , yes baseball is ridiculous in losing but when you have Nike Phil Knight (32 billion net worth, 2018 ) wanting to fund a baseball coach with  a lousy record then so be it. 

I am thankful that Mr. Knight is and sports fan and academics fan of the university.  People are still upset he gave 250 million to the university for the new research buildings under construction.  Don't understand that thinking. 


3leftturns

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Reply with quote  #62 
I believe it will be Lawson. At Kentucky, the best she can ever be is a middle-road SEC team, even with her virtuosic abilities

6/27 EDIT: Wishful thinking. It will be another chemistry experiment involving furious nickel-rubbing
pabar61

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Reply with quote  #63 
Is there any indication that communication has occurred between Oregon and Lawson?
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Southie

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Reply with quote  #64 
I think Kentucky will match any financial offer Oregon throws at Lawson.  So, it could come down to what's best for her future winning-wise.
RELAX

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Reply with quote  #65 
Unless Oregon raises their offer above what White was making, it wouldn't even be a raise for Lawson. She's got to be making at least what he was making. They'll definitely have to sweeten the pot to get her, I believe.
pabar61

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Reply with quote  #66 
I'm not convinced that Oregon didn't push White out.  They may open the purse strings to someone else who they believe can finish the job.
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PH2

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Reply with quote  #67 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RELAX
Unless Oregon raises their offer above what White was making, it wouldn't even be a raise for Lawson. She's got to be making at least what he was making. They'll definitely have to sweeten the pot to get her, I believe.


$230K this coming season, increasing by $10K through 2021.
RELAX

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Reply with quote  #68 
Quote:
Originally Posted by PH2


$230K this coming season, increasing by $10K through 2021.


I figured it had to be that high. Oregon will definitely have to sweeten their pot quite a bit. 
Scupino

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Reply with quote  #69 
The Duck from Davie

[image]
DunninLA

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Reply with quote  #70 
Quote:
Originally Posted by PH2

That means Lawson will make $230K this coming year - almost exactly what White was being paid.  If they refused to up his salary, why would they give her a significant raise? 
 Because they will be forced to.

I have seen compensation and the way it works both in large corporations, and in medium sized companies.   Especially in large corporations, the big money goes to the new hire, and never, ever to established employees.   Large companies find it cheaper to let a great employee go, and then pay a lot more to replace him/her, than to change the whole salary structure of annual raises across the company that would cost them 10x as much.  There are very rigid and inflexible rules regarding annual raises... sometimes those top out at 5%, or even 3%.  I am not sure why Oklahoma and Florida decided to go against this prevailing culture in regards to annual raises, but it certainly is easier when National Championships are part of the conversation.

The only way to get a huge raise (assuming you didn't just win an NCAA championship) is to take the much higher offer at a competitor, and after two years come back to the original company.

Beyond that, and of less importance, is that it is my take that the AD was not aware of what Gasso's contract has done to dramatically move the bar for elite softball coach compensation.  First, Murphy got a big raise when Alabama renegotiated vs. LSU.    That started the whole escalation.   Then Gasso's contract up to $700k a while back, then Gasso's new contract up to about $1M.   Then Walton renegotiated with Florida from $400k and change to , I don't know the new amount but my guess is $600k-$700k just a month ago.

And White at $240k.  And I'm sure White was wondering why the AD wouldn't adjust to the new realities of HC pay in softball.   Maybe meet him half way with a raise to about $375k or $400k.   Sometimes it isn't about money per se, but that money is used to keep score -- as an indication of where a coach ranks vs. other coaches in terms of performance and value.   White was not in the top 10 of softball coaches in remuneration, and yet he is often considered among the top 5.  But White was a victim of corporate annual raise policies way beyond the world of softball.




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3leftturns

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Reply with quote  #71 
GREAT post, Dunn
DunninLA

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Reply with quote  #72 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3leftturns
I believe it will be Lawson. At Kentucky, the best she can ever be is a middle-road SEC team, even with her virtuosic abilities
Agree, and the contract will be about $175k - $200k higher than they were paying White.

What I find odd is that UCLA is paying KIP less than Ford, White (existing), Ninemire, Tarr, Candrea, and not sure about Berg, Allister or Hogue.  She makes about $185k total compensation, per the State of California website (it could be wrong, not sure).  That's the same amount that the coach at Cal State Fullerton is making.

Now, I think that is a fair amount for a barely average coach, but why isn't UCLA willing to get an actually good coach and invest another $150k to get her/him?  Ninemire is unfireable after her lawsuit against the school about ... maybe 15 years ago, but she is another coach that is making way more than her performance justifies.

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3leftturns

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Reply with quote  #73 
Wow

I'm loathe to question you on this, but I think 300K base max

I'll send you a bottled water if it is more than that

Also, I heard Texas 'only' paid between $475K-525K base
cjs4585

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Reply with quote  #74 
Good post DunninLA. Captures exactly the way I feel about my job as well. I make plenty of money, but it's about what I make and my perceived worth in comparison to others in my field.

As to Oregon, they need to decide what they want to do. They can go after a bigger name coach, but they are going to have to pay. Or they can go for a less-proven coach, who may (or may not) be just as good and probably won't cost them more than they are paying now (maybe even get a discount).

It will be interesting to see if OR simply won't pay more for a softball coach, or wouldn't pay more specifically for White.
scrybe

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Reply with quote  #75 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cjs4585
Good post DunninLA. Captures exactly the way I feel about my job as well. I make plenty of money, but it's about what I make and my perceived worth in comparison to others in my field.

As to Oregon, they need to decide what they want to do. They can go after a bigger name coach, but they are going to have to pay. Or they can go for a less-proven coach, who may (or may not) be just as good and probably won't cost them more than they are paying now (maybe even get a discount).

It will be interesting to see if OR simply won't pay more for a softball coach, or wouldn't pay more specifically for White.


I guess everything's relative. Your idea of "plenty of money" could easily be chicken scratch to some other posters on this board (and vice versa). I truly believe that had Oregon wanted White to stay, they would have opened the purse strings. It'll be interesting to see how much money they're willing to throw at a "name" replacement.
3leftturns

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Reply with quote  #76 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cjs4585
Good post DunninLA. Captures exactly the way I feel about my job as well. I make plenty of money, but it's about what I make and my perceived worth in comparison to others in my field.

As to Oregon, they need to decide what they want to do. They can go after a bigger name coach, but they are going to have to pay. Or they can go for a less-proven coach, who may (or may not) be just as good and probably won't cost them more than they are paying now (maybe even get a discount).

It will be interesting to see if OR simply won't pay more for a softball coach, or wouldn't pay more specifically for White.
Oregon's inverse relationship of coach pay to performance has be among the most significant in the NCAA.


cjs4585

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Reply with quote  #77 
Quote:
Originally Posted by scrybe


I guess everything's relative. Your idea of "plenty of money" could easily be chicken scratch to some other posters on this board (and vice versa). I truly believe that had Oregon wanted White to stay, they would have opened the purse strings. It'll be interesting to see how much money they're willing to throw at a "name" replacement.


Sure, it is relative. But at 330k (with incentives) White was better paid than nearly all softball coaches. 330k in Eugene OR is pretty sweet money too, top 1%. But when you look at Gasso, Walton, Tarr (maybe others making more now), if you're White, you're probably saying wait a minute, I'm as good as (or better than) they are.

I'm sure OR wanted White to stay, but apparently not for the money he was getting at TX or even any more money than he was already getting. The question is,will they pay the new person more? Right now we don't know if 350ish with incentives is the very top of what they'll pay period or just what they would pay White.
BOOBEAR

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Reply with quote  #78 

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3leftturns
Oregon's inverse relationship of coach pay to performance has be among the most significant in the NCAA.




If you wanted Oregon to pay White more, the phone lines to the AD have been open for a long time and they'd love a donation. Oregon isn't paying Horton that much, boosters are.

 

DunninLA

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Reply with quote  #79 
Quote:
Originally Posted by PH2


This is from an article in 2016 when Lawson signed her latest extension:

Lawson’s salary will escalate $10,000 each year of the contract, starting at $210,000 per year in 2016-17 and ending at $250,000 per year in 2020-21,
so it looks like her buyout would be $720k, taken from UT's buyout of White's contract.   UT should just send that check to Lexington directly.  So Oregon can give Lawson a big raise without worrying about buyout money.

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DunninLA

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Reply with quote  #80 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3leftturns
Wow

I'm loathe to question you on this, but I think 300K base max

I'll send you a bottled water if it is more than that

Also, I heard Texas 'only' paid between $475K-525K base
My figures were relative to "total compensation", which would include family health benefits, housing allowance -or - no interest loan to purchase a home, camps, endorsements, appearance fees, and bonuses for League championship, Regional appearance, Supers appearance, WCWS appearance, but not including WCWS championship.  That would put White in the $600k-$700k range I think, which is what I'm guessing Walton got re-upped to.

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DunninLA

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Reply with quote  #81 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cjs4585


As to Oregon, they need to decide what they want to do. They can go after a bigger name coach, but they are going to have to pay. Or they can go for a less-proven coach, who may (or may not) be just as good and probably won't cost them more than they are paying now (maybe even get a discount).
 I agree.   They could go for Glasco and pay a little less than what they were paying White and everybody would be happy. Glasco would be doubling his salary.  But if they want Lawson, the total compensation better be over $400k, or else why would she up and move?   She's already making $230k plus incentives, which are probably around $100k if the team reaches OKC.   At least $100k more than that might be of interest to her, but perhaps $330k to $430k wouldn't make any difference to her.   How much can you spend, and they LOVE, LOVE her at Kentucky 

It is NOT easier to recruit into Oregon than it is to Kentucky.  

- Eugene is not exactly a hotbed of evening entertainment, nor is it "sexy", not is it near any town that is.
- The PAC is not better than the SEC in anything athletic, in general, and is FAR behind in investment in, and appreciation of, student ath-a-letes.
- The SEC network is light years ahead of the Pac12 network.

BTW, isn't it interesting that the two great (Myers, White) and really good (Rittman) head coaches are no longer in the PAC?   The PAC now has just one male head coach -- who hasn't seen OKC since 2010, and should probably be put out of his misery by offering him a graceful retirement.

My bet is that Oregon doesn't hire an expensive coach, but replaces White at somewhere between 70% and 90% of what he was making with someone like Glasco or Eriksen.  The compensation chart has shifted drastically upward and I don't think Oregon is going is prepared to bark with the big dogs.

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Kurosawa

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Reply with quote  #82 
Did Oregon pay top dollar to replace their volleyball head coach? No, they went cheap, hiring from within. What makes you think that softball will be any different?
3leftturns

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Reply with quote  #83 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BOOBEAR



If you wanted Oregon to pay White more, the phone lines to the AD have been open for a long time and they'd love a donation. Oregon isn't paying Horton that much, boosters are.

 

Doesn't affect one bit the truth of that inverse relationship

And, fwiw I have given more proportionately to my net worth to UO than Phil Knight has....LOL
Southie

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Reply with quote  #84 
I can see the two perspectives.

Oregon AD

- White flirted with Arkansas just 3 years ago; we gave him a raise and contract extension.  Now, he's flirting with Texas.  He wants another pay increase.  When will it end?  Does he really want to be at Oregon for the long haul?


Coach White:

- I have won the PAC 12 title several seasons since 2015; achieved the #1 ranking in the regular season and NCAA tournament seed.  I have helped build a Top 5 national program; I am not being paid like a national Top 5 head coach.  Another school believes I should be paid 2-3 times more than what you are paying me now.


Going forward, it will probably cost the AD more time, effort, and money in trying to hire a comparable head coach.  While it's subjective, it is not gonna be a Top 5 head coach.  And, there is great risk that they will not have the same success White achieved.

Had read unsubstantiated reports that Texas bought out the remaining 3 years of Coach White's financial contract (a bit less $725K).  If that is accurate, Oregon can use that money to pay the new coaching staff and not be worse for wear financially.

One thing we'll never know is what if Coach White had not flirted with Arkansas three years ago, and Texas came calling like they did last week, would the Oregon AD have matched Texas' offer?

3leftturns

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Reply with quote  #85 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DunninLA
so it looks like her buyout would be $720k, taken from UT's buyout of White's contract.   UT should just send that check to Lexington directly.  So Oregon can give Lawson a big raise without worrying about buyout money.
720K buyout for a softball coach? I doubt it.
3leftturns

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Reply with quote  #86 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DunninLA
My figures were relative to "total compensation", which would include family health benefits, housing allowance -or - no interest loan to purchase a home, camps, endorsements, appearance fees, and bonuses for League championship, Regional appearance, Supers appearance, WCWS appearance, but not including WCWS championship.  That would put White in the $600k-$700k range I think, which is what I'm guessing Walton got re-upped to.
No.

No way are the two getting paid anywhere close.

I heard Walton wanted 750K base.... they offered 700

If so, Walton has to be at 600K base... at the least

But, willing for a Gatorhead to correct me
3leftturns

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Reply with quote  #87 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Southie



Coach White:



One thing we'll never know is what if Coach White had not flirted with Arkansas three years ago, and Texas came calling like they did last week, would the Oregon AD have matched Texas' offer?

Absolutely not
1janiedough

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Reply with quote  #88 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3leftturns
Absolutely not


In other words, Oregon is cheap...but not as cheap as the Az schools!

Pac12 bunch of cheapasses!
3leftturns

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Reply with quote  #89 
Yep.... Maybe it will be Roberts

Probably the price-range sweet spot

Could Chelsea Spencer have a shot? I wasn't thinking so... But my head is spinning
cjs4585

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Reply with quote  #90 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3leftturns
720K buyout for a softball coach? I doubt it.


Here is the complete text of Lawson's contract. No mention of buyout at all. https://www.uky.edu/legal/sites/www.uky.edu.legal/files/2017_09_18_11_43_16.pdf

I can't find the text of White's contract, but this link mentions that most buyouts in the pac12 would be 50k. https://www.d1softballnews.com/2018-pac-12-coaches-salaries/

That site apparently gets the contracts from the universities with FOIA requests.
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