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scrybe

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Reply with quote  #481 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3leftturns
It wasn't an insult. Looking for an answer


The short answer is I don't know. But it's doubtful that anyone has served that many years as an assistant before finally becoming a head coach. My point, which you apparently missed, was ML could have become a head coach year's ago. She chose to wait for the perfect opportunity (Oregon) because she was already being paid as well as most head coaches.
HenryLouisAaron

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Reply with quote  #482 
ML was very happy in her position at Oklahoma. She could have easily stayed at Oklahoma for the entirety of her coaching career - and would have surely become the next head coach whenever PG decided to retire.  But... when this particular opportunity (Oregon) arose - it was too good to turn down. It is not often a new coach gets to come in to a program with all that pitching at her disposal right out of the gate. And with pitching being ML's specialty... I think she was given an offer she just could not turn down.

I am really looking forward to seeing how Oregon, Texas and Oklahoma all do next season (and the next few seasons) - with these coaching changes.
Southie

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Reply with quote  #483 
Quote:
Originally Posted by HenryLouisAaron
ML was very happy in her position at Oklahoma. She could have easily stayed at Oklahoma for the entirety of her coaching career - and would have surely become the next head coach whenever PG decided to retire. 

Would she for sure have been taken over, or would Tim Walton have gotten consideration?
scrybe

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Reply with quote  #484 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Southie

Would she for sure have been taken over, or would Tim Walton have gotten consideration?


LOL. For a brief moment I actually thought you were serious.
1janiedough

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Reply with quote  #485 
Quote:
Originally Posted by scrybe


LOL. For a brief moment I actually thought you were serious.


Lol is right!
DunninLA

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Reply with quote  #486 
Quote:
Originally Posted by HenryLouisAaron

UCLA is a special case (and you know it).

Since then... (with Perez as the new coach) from 2007 through 2018... 
UCLA has been to the finals just one time in a dozen seasons.

I am pretty sure you agree with me... that the UCLA program has underachieved since KIP took over.
And the irony is the player who led UCLA to that Championship absolutely refused to let KIP ruin her with her abusive mind games, petty power plays, and poor coaching.    That takes a lot of grit, and UCLA benefitted from essentially a self directed and self coached superstar.  The medicrity of whatever the hell the "Bruin Bubble" is did not absorb her.   Doesn't "Bruin Bubble" sound a little like "head in the sand"?

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DunninLA

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Reply with quote  #487 
why does everyone assume that a HC job is the pinnacle of coaching?   That everyone wants to be a HC?   There are horses for courses.   Being a HC is mostly NOT coaching players.  It is budgeting, politicking, hiring/firing and managing staff, dividing scholarship money, recruiting, etc. etc. etc.   It is my take that many if not most who take the HC position do so for the money.   If Assistant and Associate HC were paid the same as the actual HC, how many Assistants/Associates would trade places?

HC is for some, and not others.   It ruins some, makes some.   Those that succeed are naturally made for it (genetically speaking).  Most are not.

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cjs4585

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Reply with quote  #488 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DunninLA
why does everyone assume that a HC job is the pinnacle of coaching?   That everyone wants to be a HC?   There are horses for courses.   Being a HC is mostly NOT coaching players.  It is budgeting, politicking, hiring/firing and managing staff, dividing scholarship money, recruiting, etc. etc. etc.   It is my take that many if not most who take the HC position do so for the money.   If Assistant and Associate HC were paid the same as the actual HC, how many Assistants/Associates would trade places?

HC is for some, and not others.   It ruins some, makes some.   Those that succeed are naturally made for it (genetically speaking).  Most are not.


Because it *is* the pinnacle of coaching (hence the name "head" in the title). I would imagine it's true that some assistants don't want to be head coaches, but I think it far more likely that most of them are simply waiting for the right opportunity. HC certainly have administrative work to do but they also get to run the program their own way for the most part. I think that especially true for sports like softball where ADs tend to let it be if something isn't going wrong. I also can't think of a high level coach that doesn't coach players as a major part of their job. I think it's true that most often assistants get pay increases to become head coaches but I don't think it's a motivating factor for many. I can think of a few assistants that became head coaches recently who likely either got little or no extra money. I do believe though, that being an assistant does not fully prepare one to be a head coach and not everyone who may be a great assistant will be a great head coach. 
3leftturns

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Reply with quote  #489 
Some people are perfectly content as an assistant. No doubt.

But, no matter how you slice it, being an assistant at the same place for 21 years and then leaving for a head job is exceedingly rare
Oatmealsmoke

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Reply with quote  #490 
Contract released today:

5 years / $1.725 Mil for an average of $345k per year. $100k buyout. Standard HC benes as well, such as car, country club, etc.

A championship run, including conference title, would be worth an additional $150k on top. A WCWS appearance itself would be worth $65k with the way the cumulative incentives stack.
  • $25k for Conf. Title
  • $10k Regional appearance
  • $15k Supers appearance
  • $40k WCWS appearance
  • $10k WCWS Finals appearance
  • $50k WCWS Winner
Most interesting to me is that fact that ML is also entitled to pocket any endorsement money the program receives from equipment vendors, along with any Nike stipend that may be provided through the Elite program.

More than what White was getting, but less than he'll make under his deal at Texas. However, with reasonably-attainable incentives, she'll likely be in the same ballpark. This all makes me think that Oregon wasn't necessarily unwilling to pay -- they were simply unwilling to pay Mike White.

http://media.oregonlive.com/ducks_impact/other/Lombardi%20contract%202018-23.pdf



3leftturns

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Reply with quote  #491 
Isn't White getting a $450K base this season?
scrybe

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Reply with quote  #492 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Southie

They won't.


Since Southie likes to gloat whenever he can prove other posters wrong, I couldn't resist digging up his response to a poster who suggested the Ducks might pay ML more than they paid Mike White.

Don't get mad, Southie. It's all in fun.
Oatmealsmoke

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Reply with quote  #493 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3leftturns
Isn't White getting a $450K base this season?


That's been the report. Haven't seen what's in his contract as far as incentives go. That may push his deal well above the $500k or so that ML could make at UO if all goes perfectly.
3leftturns

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Reply with quote  #494 
White base is 450K this year. I'll figure he has $200K in incentives that can be added. Also guessing the 5-year base average is $500K
1janiedough

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Reply with quote  #495 
Still 100k more than White was getting base.
3leftturns

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Reply with quote  #496 

White was on deck for $245K in 2019, ML is $325K

Makes sense. Plus, a few grand in there because they had to quell the possible mutiny.

Job well done by Lisa Peterson.

cjs4585

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Reply with quote  #497 
It sounded like from what White said, OR wasn't just uninterested in matching his TX salary but uninterested in negotiating at all. The fact they were willing to give ML 100k more in base salary alone seems to indicate they may have been done with White.
3leftturns

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Reply with quote  #498 
80K more in base.... not even in the same ballpark for a guy with White's credentials

Just isn't
cjs4585

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Reply with quote  #499 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3leftturns
80K more in base.... not even in the same ballpark for a guy with White's credentials

Just isn't


The fact that they were unwilling to even have the conversation with White is the telling part when they were clearly willing to pay someone else more.
3leftturns

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Reply with quote  #500 
325 is no conversation

There are hometown discounts, and there are dogs that just won't hunt
cjs4585

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Reply with quote  #501 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3leftturns
325 is no conversation

There are hometown discounts, and there are dogs that just won't hunt


You're telling me that if you have an employee you really value and they come to you with another offer that you don't talk to them because the offer is 25% higher than you really want to go? I've been involved in enough of these from both sides that I know it doesnt work that way. You say hey, will you go 375, remember your players you're house, friends etc etc. Maybe you end up at 400. Maybe you don't end up with a deal and the employee walks, but you dont just say no negotiation, see ya, if there isn't something else going on.

I mean the other thing going on could have been the admin saying we aren't paying more than 250 for a softball coach, but that wasn't the case.
3leftturns

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Reply with quote  #502 

Quote:
Originally Posted by cjs4585


You're telling me that if you have an employee you really value and they come to you with another offer that you don't talk to them because the offer is 25% higher than you really want to go? I've been involved in enough of these from both sides that I know it doesnt work that way. You say hey, will you go 375, remember your players you're house, friends etc etc. Maybe you end up at 400. Maybe you don't end up with a deal and the employee walks, but you dont just say no negotiation, see ya, if there isn't something else going on.
450 is 38.5 percent higher than ML's 325 in 2019.

It is 83.7 percent higher than White's upcoming 245 in 2019.

Oregon not upsetting the apple cart for anywhere within a zip code of 450 ... for any softball coach.

If you are such a pro at this, you should know Oregon's coach-pay ecosystem, and the idea of not upsetting an ecosystem for any employee, especially in a non-revenue-producing realm.

I have, ad nauseum, gone over their football hires.... every one of them absolutely bottom of the barrel.

Find me any Oregon coach who is top 10 in pay in their respective sport?

Maybe Kelly Graves....I doubt it, but maybe

Also, Texas has no state income tax, while Oregon for the softball coach salary level is 9.9 percent.

So, even being willing to go to 375K (pipe dream base numbers for softball at UO, but for sh*ts and gigs), that pay is only 337,500 after state tax.... math was never going to work at UO.

 

AZSBFAN

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Reply with quote  #503 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oatmealsmoke
Contract released today:

5 years / $1.725 Mil for an average of $345k per year. $100k buyout. Standard HC benes as well, such as car, country club, etc.

A championship run, including conference title, would be worth an additional $150k on top. A WCWS appearance itself would be worth $65k with the way the cumulative incentives stack.
  • $25k for Conf. Title
  • $10k Regional appearance
  • $15k Supers appearance
  • $40k WCWS appearance
  • $10k WCWS Finals appearance
  • $50k WCWS Winner
Most interesting to me is that fact that ML is also entitled to pocket any endorsement money the program receives from equipment vendors, along with any Nike stipend that may be provided through the Elite program.

More than what White was getting, but less than he'll make under his deal at Texas. However, with reasonably-attainable incentives, she'll likely be in the same ballpark. This all makes me think that Oregon wasn't necessarily unwilling to pay -- they were simply unwilling to pay Mike White.

http://media.oregonlive.com/ducks_impact/other/Lombardi%20contract%202018-23.pdf




Anybody else notice that they spelled her name wrong on the contract!
spazsdad

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Reply with quote  #504 
I was more surprised by the font
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Oatmealsmoke

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Reply with quote  #505 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AZSBFAN

Anybody else notice that they spelled her name wrong on the contract!


“Melissa Lombardl”

Not a great first effort.
3leftturns

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Reply with quote  #506 

https://twitter.com/OregonSB/status/1018912120979611649

 

scrybe

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Reply with quote  #507 
Hope you appreciate what a great coach you're getting, Lefty.
3leftturns

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Reply with quote  #508 
She has huge shoes to fill.

She wins a natty, she will advance the program.

Rooting for her, and, especially, the sophomores, juniors and seniors left in Eugene
scrybe

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Reply with quote  #509 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3leftturns
She has huge shoes to fill.

She wins a natty, she will advance the program.

Rooting for her, and, especially, the sophomores, juniors and seniors left in Eugene


I take that to mean Mike White has big feet.

LOL. JK. Yes, White took the Ducks to new heights. Here's hoping Missy will take the program to the pinnacle.
1janiedough

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Reply with quote  #510 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3leftturns
She has huge shoes to fill.

She wins a natty, she will advance the program.

Rooting for her, and, especially, the sophomores, juniors and seniors left in Eugene


All she has to do is get to the cs to advance the program.
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