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jayrot

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Reply with quote  #121 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1janiedough



I agree about Berg...but my question is, is she just not that great of a coach or is Corvallis really that sh*tty of a draw for players?  I mean there are no lights still...only will the 2019 season bring lights to the field.

It's basically a schoolyard field.


I so wish OSU could return to the days of McElroy and McGowan.

I think OSU was just put under by the rise of Mike White and Heather Farr.
Sec_fan91

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Reply with quote  #122 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1janiedough



I agree about Berg...but my question is, is she just not that great of a coach or is Corvallis really that sh*tty of a draw for players?  I mean there are no lights still...only will the 2019 season bring lights to the field.

It's basically a schoolyard field.


Can’t be worse than Cal
1janiedough

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Reply with quote  #123 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sec_fan91


Can’t be worse than Cal



The scoreboard!  Still the old fashioned one from the 1800's!
3leftturns

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Reply with quote  #124 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 9Wildcats

The problem with money is you can’t spend what you don’t have, and the non-revenue sports at most schools don’t have it and can’t print it as our Federal Reserve effectively does.  

Say what you will about the Oregon AD’s decision: it does make monetary and strategic sense. Strategically, over the last 20 years, history shows that new head coaches, who rapidly build a contender, generally win a championship in six seasons or less after taking charge. The other HC’s take a decade or two to earn the prize, always with the same team, often with several intervening up & down cycles, and usually with a stint or two as runner-up before earning the big trophy. This historical trend is unfavorable for a quick coup by White at Texas at this stage of his DI career, given his meteoric rise as the Duck’s HC without striking gold or making a runner-up appearance after nine seasons at the helm, and the ‘Horn’s own history of post-season woes. Worse yet is that rotting albatross hanging about White’s neck – that bitterly disappointing underachievement in post-season play. After a considered review, with such factors in mind, the Oregon AD may have decided to throw the dice and gamble on an economical up-and-comer rather than invest considerably more & more salary moneys in the hope of slogging out a low-payback championship over the next decade (or longer).

Oregon finished during White era: T9, T9, T5, T9 (1-2 at Supers), T3, T7, T9 (1-2 at Supers), T3, T5

Anytime you don't win the last game and you are in Supers or OKC it is bitterly disappointing.

Underachievement? All schools other than -- what -- a half-dozen -- would kill for that postseason performance.

The only 'rotting albatross' around anyone's neck are the expectations to maintain, much less improve upon, that above record.

Meanwhile, the guy who deserves a bonus and got rid of a 'rotting albatross' is Candrea. He works over DelConte and gets rid of a guy who was 19-8 against Arizona, and 16-5 the past seven years.


Webfoot

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Reply with quote  #125 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DunninLA
 I agree.   They could go for Glasco and pay a little less than what they were paying White and everybody would be happy. Glasco would be doubling his salary.  But if they want Lawson, the total compensation better be over $400k, or else why would she up and move?   She's already making $230k plus incentives, which are probably around $100k if the team reaches OKC.   At least $100k more than that might be of interest to her, but perhaps $330k to $430k wouldn't make any difference to her.   How much can you spend, and they LOVE, LOVE her at Kentucky 

It is NOT easier to recruit into Oregon than it is to Kentucky.  

- Eugene is not exactly a hotbed of evening entertainment, nor is it "sexy", not is it near any town that is.
- The PAC is not better than the SEC in anything athletic, in general, and is FAR behind in investment in, and appreciation of, student ath-a-letes.
- The SEC network is light years ahead of the Pac12 network.

BTW, isn't it interesting that the two great (Myers, White) and really good (Rittman) head coaches are no longer in the PAC?   The PAC now has just one male head coach -- who hasn't seen OKC since 2010, and should probably be put out of his misery by offering him a graceful retirement.

My bet is that Oregon doesn't hire an expensive coach, but replaces White at somewhere between 70% and 90% of what he was making with someone like Glasco or Eriksen.  The compensation chart has shifted drastically upward and I don't think Oregon is going is prepared to bark with the big dogs.



I don't think Oregon is going is prepared to bark with the big dogs.


LOL!  Only If...... multi billionaire Phil Knight wanted it.  He does follow softball.  Is White worth what he will be getting paid. Time will tell but Oregon thought differently.



1janiedough

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Reply with quote  #126 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3leftturns
Oregon finished during White era: T9, T9, T5, T9 (1-2 at Supers), T3, T7, T9 (1-2 at Supers), T3, T5

Anytime you don't win the last game and you are in Supers or OKC it is bitterly disappointing.

Underachievement? All schools other than -- what -- a half-dozen -- would kill for that postseason performance.

The only 'rotting albatross' around anyone's neck are the expectations to maintain, much less improve upon, that above record.

Meanwhile, the guy who deserves a bonus and got rid of a 'rotting albatross' is Candrea. He works over DelConte and gets rid of a guy who was 19-8 against Arizona, and 16-5 the past seven years.




I highly doubt Candrea "got rid" of anyone. I used to brush off your anti-Candrea sh*t as annoying, but now you have gone too far.

Candrea doesn't need to try and push anyone out, man. He is a grown man who has done a superb job for softball...period.
3leftturns

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Reply with quote  #127 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jayrot


I so wish OSU could return to the days of McElroy and McGowan.

I think OSU was just put under by the rise of Mike White and Heather Farr.
The late former LPGA player?
3leftturns

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Reply with quote  #128 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1janiedough


I highly doubt Candrea "got rid" of anyone. I used to brush off your anti-Candrea sh*t as annoying, but now you have gone too far.

Candrea doesn't need to try and push anyone out, man. He is a grown man who has done a superb job for softball...period.
First, I like the guy (I have never heard anyone say a bad thing about him). But the incontrovertible facts are these: He is probably the most important coach in softball history; The Texas AD had a talk with him about who he should go after; and White owned him. I did not make up that record. It isn't some... opinion.

3leftturns

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Reply with quote  #129 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Webfoot



I don't think Oregon is going is prepared to bark with the big dogs.


LOL!  Only If...... multi billionaire Phil Knight wanted it.  He does follow softball.  Is White worth what he will be getting paid. Time will tell but Oregon thought differently.



Oregon didn't think 'differently'... They don't pay for coaches. Period.

And, let's be honest, Jane Sanders Stadium fell into their lap with one NON-KNIGHT donor

Knight supports ... male sports
NickSports

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Reply with quote  #130 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1janiedough



I agree about Berg...but my question is, is she just not that great of a coach or is Corvallis really that sh*tty of a draw for players?  I mean there are no lights still...only will the 2019 season bring lights to the field.

It's basically a schoolyard field.


I'd say a bit of both, honestly their facilities are terrible, across the board.
3leftturns

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Reply with quote  #131 
That Goss Stadium baseball field looks pretty sweet to me.
jayrot

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Reply with quote  #132 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3leftturns
The late former LPGA player?


Maybe I added the F in after that dang superregional this year.  Just kidding ... a good ol' typo.
jayrot

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Reply with quote  #133 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sec_fan91


Can’t be worse than Cal


I may be the only one who likes that location for Cal's field (it is WAY out of the way, and no one would easily find it, but it was fun driving up there and kinda find the hole in the wall field), but that "stadium" at Cal is HORRENDOUS!  I've seen better HS setups.
1janiedough

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Reply with quote  #134 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3leftturns
First, I like the guy (I have never heard anyone say a bad thing about him). But the incontrovertible facts are these: He is probably the most important coach in softball history; The Texas AD had a talk with him about who he should go after; and White owned him. I did not make up that record. It isn't some... opinion.




Ummmm...Candrea 8 White 0.

I did not make up that record. It isn't some...opinion.
3leftturns

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Reply with quote  #135 
He did great when White wasn't around. Looks like we have reached consensus! [wink]
lovsofbal

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Reply with quote  #136 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3leftturns
He did great when White wasn't around. Looks like we have reached consensus! [wink]


wasn't Swing for the Fence a Candrea fan?
1janiedough

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Reply with quote  #137 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3leftturns
He did great when White wasn't around. Looks like we have reached consensus! [wink]


It doesn't matter that White wasn't around. Candrea won his first in his third try. Alameda won her first in her 3rd try, Gasso won her first 6 years into her Oklahoma job, Perez won her first title in her 3rd year as hc.

For someone who likes Candrea, you never say anything to give him credit.

White chokes in big moments...and his teams follow in kind. In fact none of the arrogant nouveau riche Nike money changes that fact that the Duck teams choke on the big stage.

White can't hold a candle to Candrea and would not reach supers virtually every year with zero pitching as Az has since 2010. Talk about maintaining, look at the sh*t Az has been through since 08 and they still reach supers.
3leftturns

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Reply with quote  #138 
I wouldn't mind a mining of my comments that lead anyone to think I don't like and respect Mike Candrea. Mrs. Mercado told me the man is awesome, and I consider there to be no better softball listening that when he speaks about the game.

I remember critiquing a weak end-of-season schedule once, but I can't recall taking a shot at the guy

I was crestfallen that he didn't make OKC in 2017
Scupino

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Reply with quote  #139 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1janiedough


It doesn't matter that White wasn't around. Candrea won his first in his third try. Alameda won her first in her 3rd try, Gasso won her first 6 years into her Oklahoma job, Perez won her first title in her 3rd year as hc.

For someone who likes Candrea, you never say anything to give him credit.

White chokes in big moments...and his teams follow in kind. White can't hold a candle to Candrea and could not reach supers virtually every year with zero pitching as Az has since 2010.


Glad the Kiwi is gone from Oregon
3leftturns

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Reply with quote  #140 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1janiedough



For someone who likes Candrea, you never say anything to give him credit.



LOL.... compared with you, I look like Candrea's AGENT!
3leftturns

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Reply with quote  #141 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1janiedough

 Talk about maintaining, look at the sh*t Az has been through since 08 and they still reach supers.
What s*it have they been through for 10 years?

Southie

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Reply with quote  #142 
Candrea's time has come and gone.  He might have accomplished a lot in the past, but it is way in the past.
Southie

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Reply with quote  #143 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1janiedough

White can't hold a candle to Candrea and would not reach supers virtually every year with zero pitching as Az has since 2010. Talk about maintaining, look at the sh*t Az has been through since 08 and they still reach supers.

And who is responsible for that?  No one but Candrea.   If he can't recruit elite pitchers, then the game really has passed him by as his reputation no longer makes a difference to recruits.
Kurosawa

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Reply with quote  #144 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DunninLA
 I agree.   They could go for Glasco and pay a little less than what they were paying White and everybody would be happy. Glasco would be doubling his salary.


Or they could go after a top assistant at a P5 program. I just hope they don't go after Glasoe...

Any head coach on a first-year contract is going to have a buy-out, it seems to me. If UO was unwilling to pay up to keep White, would they be willing to buy out another school's coach?

cjs4585

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Reply with quote  #145 
You
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurosawa


Or they could go after a top assistant at a P5 program. I just hope they don't go after Glasoe...

Any head coach on a first-year contract is going to have a buy-out, it seems to me. If UO was unwilling to pay up to keep White, would they be willing to buy out another school's coach?



I know of a few coaches, some first year, that have no buyout. And even if a coach does, for softball, they tend to be pretty small. I've no idea what Glasco's is specifically, but I wouldn't guess that would be a significant factor given the amount of money we're likely talking about.

I think a current assistant would be a tough sell and probably less bang for the buck than they are looking for. From what I've seen, the single biggest criteria schools are looking for when filling the jobs is head coaching experience.
Oatmealsmoke

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Reply with quote  #146 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurosawa


Or they could go after a top assistant at a P5 program. I just hope they don't go after Glasoe...

Any head coach on a first-year contract is going to have a buy-out, it seems to me. If UO was unwilling to pay up to keep White, would they be willing to buy out another school's coach?



Either way, we'll find out quite quickly whether Oregon wasn't willing to pay, period, or wasn't willing to pay White specifically.

I suspect it to be for former.

Oregon has an expectation issue right now in that they've got donors willing to step up for facilities and infrastructure, but without the institutional willingness to support programs and retain coaches once the price gets a bit steep. The net result is that expectations ratchet upward but without a corresponding increase in support and budgeting.

I also despise the idiotic carping about Mike White's WCWS "failures." It'd be like Warren Buffett complaining about only being the third richest man in the world.

Then there's troubling male/female disconnect when it comes to spending, but I've probably beaten that horse to death already...
1janiedough

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Reply with quote  #147 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Southie
Candrea's time has come and gone.  He might have accomplished a lot in the past, but it is way in the past.


Southie...gfy. Texas has never been sh*t in softball.
cjs4585

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Reply with quote  #148 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1janiedough



I agree about Berg...but my question is, is she just not that great of a coach or is Corvallis really that sh*tty of a draw for players?  I mean there are no lights still...only will the 2019 season bring lights to the field.

It's basically a schoolyard field.


I think "a little column A, a little column B". I've been to OSU and the facilities aren't very good but, honestly, neither are most of the pac's. Before the Jane, OR wasn't great, WA has a pretty view but has rotting tarps over the leaking press box, and no outdoor covered hitting area (they have to beg the baseball team or share the Dempsey with 10 other sports). I'be not been, but I was talking with one of the coaches who said they thought Cal and Stanford were tied for the crappiest facilities, with UCLA not too far behind. The point being, that these programs (not Cal recently I guess) have managed to be pretty darn good in spite of the facilities.

UCLA and to a lesser degree Cal have some pretty big recruiting advantages built in, and you can argue that seattle is a real city at least, but Berg being hooked in with the jwnt and having that network should get her better recruits than it has. That said, she's gotten some decent talent, they just haven't played well consistently (they'll have a great game and beat the ducks and then lose to some marginal team). I think that's on the coach.
jayrot

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Reply with quote  #149 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1janiedough


Southie...gfy. Texas has never been sh*t in softball.


There have been 4 P12 coaches to make it to the M to W championship series in the last 8 years: Candrea, KIP, Myers and Tarr.
jayrot

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Reply with quote  #150 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cjs4585


I think "a little column A, a little column B". I've been to OSU and the facilities aren't very good but, honestly, neither are most of the pac's. Before the Jane, OR wasn't great, WA has a pretty view but has rotting tarps over the leaking press box, and no outdoor covered hitting area (they have to beg the baseball team or share the Dempsey with 10 other sports). I'be not been, but I was talking with one of the coaches who said they thought Cal and Stanford were tied for the crappiest facilities, with UCLA not too far behind. The point being, that these programs (not Cal recently I guess) have managed to be pretty darn good in spite of the facilities.

UCLA and to a lesser degree Cal have some pretty big recruiting advantages built in, and you can argue that seattle is a real city at least, but Berg being hooked in with the jwnt and having that network should get her better recruits than it has. That said, she's gotten some decent talent, they just haven't played well consistently (they'll have a great game and beat the ducks and then lose to some marginal team). I think that's on the coach.


Anyone who puts Stanford and Cal in the same vein of stadiums needs something checked. Stanford may be oriented completely wrong and may be missing a chunk of land down the first baseline but the stadium ain’t that bad. No worse than Rita was with those seats falling apart, that alleyway that was used to get to the OF bleachers and that awful outfield view of a brick building. UCLA has a great location though it’s squashed in there and I love that entrance, but the stands and concessions are awful.
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