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3leftturns

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Reply with quote  #31 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RahOKU

OK, so nobody besides Lefty responded to my request to compare the lineups of Oklahoma and Oregon. Only on the basis of 2017 stats, here's how I think that position-by-position comparison goes:

1B - Edge OU. I'd take Knighten (.358/70 rbi/.575 slug%/.986 field%) over Camuso (.341/47 rbi/.476 slug%/.981 field%). Not reflected in the stats, but Knighten is demonstrably one of the most dangerous hitters in college softball in big situations.

2B - Edge OU. I'll take Clifton (.356/70 runs/8 HR/.557 slug%/.528 OB%/.977 field%) over Lindvall (.260/22 runs/25 rbi/ .373 slug%/ .322 OB%/.964 field%)

3B - Edge OU. Romero (.339/57 runs/59 rbi/.559 slug%/.373 OB%/.939 field%) over Lilley (.258/27 runs/26 rbi/.355 slug%/.402 OB%/.941 field%).

SS - Edge UO. Sanders has every offensive edge you could factor in over OU's Arnold.

LF - Tossup between OU's Aviu and UO's Mack. Mack the better batting average, Aviu more RBI, better slugging%.

CF - Edge OU. I'll take Pendley (.323/44 runs/17 HR/65 RBI/.614 slug%/.986 field%) over Rhodes (.336/38 runs/7 HR/46 RBI/.552 slug%/.929 field%).

RF - Edge OU. Mendes (.408/55 runs/7 HR/.598 slug%/.977 field%) over any of Oregon's RFs (one soph, two freshmen).

C - Edge UO. Svekis has every offensive edge over OU's Wodach.

DP - Tossup. Both teams have freshmen DPing. OU has Alo; UO has Iakopo. I expect by midseason Alo will have the edge here.

SP - Edge OU. Slight. But I'd take Parker-Lowary-Lopez over Kleist-Balint-Elish. 

For me, Oklahoma has better players at 1B, 2B, 3B, CF and RF and better pitching. Oregon with better players at SS and C. Tossups at DP and LF.

How would these teams fare on the field, head to head? It would be a whale of a series. Maybe a whale of a WCWS championship series.


Camuso was all-WCWS as a freshman

Lilley is the best defensive 3B in the country, and over her career has hit .396 with a 1.138 OPS after May 1.

Alexis Mack was also an all-WCWS selection and is a game-changing leadoff batter. Aviu is a decent/good power hitter

Shannon Rhodes? Put anyone ahead of her at your own risk. She may end up as the best Duck non-pitcher ever at the point she graduates.

Rest of it is pretty solid

HenryLouisAaron

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Reply with quote  #32 
<< Oregon is loaded....will make it to the WCWS....or at least Supers!! 
They will implode....Mike White’s colors will show.....and they will never win a National championship.... 
Now....that’s not a failure.....but ....ummmm...yeh it kinda is 
Hit me back in June >> (iwitness)

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Wow!
Now that is some prediction.

If Oregon does win the title (which is a very real possibility) it will be fun to see this poster's (iwitness) reaction.
HenryLouisAaron

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Reply with quote  #33 

<< OK, so nobody besides Lefty responded to my request to compare the lineups of Oklahoma and Oregon. Only on the basis of 2017 stats, here's how I think that position-by-position comparison goes:

1B - Edge OU. I'd take Knighten (.358/70 rbi/.575 slug%/.986 field%) over Camuso (.341/47 rbi/.476 slug%/.981 field%). Not reflected in the stats, but Knighten is demonstrably one of the most dangerous hitters in college softball in big situations.

2B - Edge OU. I'll take Clifton (.356/70 runs/8 HR/.557 slug%/.528 OB%/.977 field%) over Lindvall (.260/22 runs/25 rbi/ .373 slug%/ .322 OB%/.964 field%)

3B - Edge OU. Romero (.339/57 runs/59 rbi/.559 slug%/.373 OB%/.939 field%) over Lilley (.258/27 runs/26 rbi/.355 slug%/.402 OB%/.941 field%).

SS - Edge UO. Sanders has every offensive edge you could factor in over OU's Arnold.

LF - Tossup between OU's Aviu and UO's Mack. Mack the better batting average, Aviu more RBI, better slugging%.

CF - Edge OU. I'll take Pendley (.323/44 runs/17 HR/65 RBI/.614 slug%/.986 field%) over Rhodes (.336/38 runs/7 HR/46 RBI/.552 slug%/.929 field%).

RF - Edge OU. Mendes (.408/55 runs/7 HR/.598 slug%/.977 field%) over any of Oregon's RFs (one soph, two freshmen).

C - Edge UO. Svekis has every offensive edge over OU's Wodach.

DP - Tossup. Both teams have freshmen DPing. OU has Alo; UO has Iakopo. I expect by midseason Alo will have the edge here.

SP - Edge OU. Slight. But I'd take Parker-Lowary-Lopez over Kleist-Balint-Elish. 

For me, Oklahoma has better players at 1B, 2B, 3B, CF and RF and better pitching. Oregon with better players at SS and C. Tossups at DP and LF.

How would these teams fare on the field, head to head? It would be a whale of a series. Maybe a whale of a WCWS championship series. >> (RahOKU)

 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

<< Camuso was all-WCWS as a freshman

Lilley is the best defensive 3B in the country, and over her career has hit .396 with a 1.138 OPS after May 1.

Alexis Mack was also an all-WCWS selection and is a game-changing leadoff batter. Aviu is a decent/good power hitter

Shannon Rhodes? Put anyone ahead of her at your own risk. She may end up as the best Duck non-pitcher ever at the point she graduates.

Rest of it is pretty solid >> (3LT)

===========================================

Here is my take...

1B: Camuso looks great... but Knighten has come through in crucial situations BIG TIME. There is no big gap here - but OK gets the edge.

2B: A big lead for Clifton over Lindvall.

3B: Lilley is a great defensive player - but Romero is very good as well. Lilley had done well down the stretch on offense - but Romero has gotten the job done on offense throughout the regular season AND the post season. Again there is no big gap here - but OK gets the edge.

SS: Arnold does a very solid job on defense and I think her offense will pick up this year. But Sanders wins this position by a very big margin.

LF: I consider Aviu's defensive play to be average at best - so I'd give Mack a big edge in the field. They are different types of hitters. Mack's job is to get on base while Aviu's is more to drive in runners. If there is an edge - it probably goes to Mack because of her better defensive play.

CF: I give Pendley the edge on offense because of her better power - and I also give Pendley a good edge over Rhoads on defense. Overall, a medium size edge for OK.

RF: Mendes by a very big margin over whatever player Oregon plays in RF, both on offense and defense.

C: Just like Arnold, I think Wodach will have a mush better offensive season in 2018 than she had in 2017 (she had a hand injury most of last season). But I will still give a good edge to Svekis.

DP: I don't know much about Iakopo... but I am expecting HUGE stuff from Alo. Yes, it is way too early to really know - but I say - WATCH OUT!

SP: Two great staffs. I'd give a small edge to Oklahoma's pitchers - only because they have ALL THAT PRIME TIME EXPERIENCE of coming through when it matters most.

++++++++++++++++++++++

Here is a comparison of the potential batting lineups:

1. Mendes vs. Mack 
2. Clifton vs. Lilley
3. Knighten vs. Rhoades
4. Alo vs. Svekis 
5. Pendley vs. Camuso
6. Romero vs. Iakopo
7. Aviu vs. Sanders
8. Wodach vs. Lindvall
9. Arnold vs. Burke/Bowden/Cruise

First, I am listing Sanders in the #7 slot for Oregon based soley on the Oregon lineup that 3LT provided. I have to say that I am a bit shocked to see her that low in the order.
The batting order listed for Oklahoma is what I think it will likely become.

I give Oklahoma a good solid edge in the 1-6 batters in the order. 
Sanders gets a good edge at the # 7 spot.
Lindvall gets an edge over Wodach in the #8 spot.
And I think Arnold will surprise some people and deserve the edge in the #9 spot. 

So I see Oklahoma with the edge in 7 of the 9 slots. 

These two teams will meet for one game during the regular season. That should be great fun to watch...
And it just might give us a glimpse of what could be the final series of the season.

pabar61

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Reply with quote  #34 
I might give this more credence than others do but Gasso has gotten it done while White hasn't.  To the extent players look to their coach for guidance and reassurance during crucial times, I have to believe Gasso has a huge edge there.
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3leftturns

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Reply with quote  #35 
Yes, Gasso plays the WS in OKC, we get it, pabar61

You can put your Maxwell's silver hammer away
HenryLouisAaron

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Reply with quote  #36 
<< I might give this more credence than others do but Gasso has gotten it done while White hasn't.  To the extent players look to their coach for guidance and reassurance during crucial times, I have to believe Gasso has a huge edge there. >> (parbar61)

<< Yes, Gasso plays the WS in OKC, we get it, pabar61
You can put your Maxwell's silver hammer away >> (3LT)

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

To be fair, 3LT, RahOKU did write this in his original post on this subject (post #19):

"So now someone fill in the Ducks lineup and let's discuss who has the edge at each position, coaching, intangibles, etc." (RahOKU)

I didn't mention the coaching part of the question in my response (post #33)... 
but if one wants to comment on that part of the equation - Gasso (and her staff) would certainly get the nod by most everyone.

In terms of "intangibles", which RahOKU also mentioned in that first post...
I have to go with Oklahoma again. Just look at those amazing "bunt plays".

 ; )
HenryLouisAaron

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Reply with quote  #37 
<< Yes, Gasso plays the WS in OKC, we get it, pabar61
You can put your Maxwell's silver hammer away >> (3LT)


Btw...  I always enjoy seeing another Beatles reference, 3LT.
3leftturns

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Reply with quote  #38 
A long and winding road this is, indeed
pabar61

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Reply with quote  #39 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3leftturns
Yes, Gasso plays the WS in OKC, we get it, pabar61

You can put your Maxwell's silver hammer away


Wow - so sensitive.  I think there was a solicitation for comments on the coaches.  Keep in mind, I'm a huge Ducks fan and could care less about the Sooners.  But I was just making a commentary that I thought had been solicited and was an honest opinion.



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Will I Wynn is a poster who used to go by the name of Dewey.  He used to criticize people who did that.
3leftturns

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Reply with quote  #40 

Quote:
Originally Posted by pabar61


Wow - so sensitive.  I think there was a solicitation for comments on the coaches.  Keep in mind, I'm a huge Ducks fan and could care less about the Sooners.  But I was just making a commentary that I thought had been solicited and was an honest opinion.



No way you are a Ducks fan, saying that doesn't-get-it-done crap.

In 2009, Oregon was 16-34

White took over in summer of 2009.

Despite taking over that 16-win team, he has never missed making the Sweet 16, going 24-0 in regional play.

They lost painful game 3s of Supers twice, keeping them from having made OKC six years in a row.

During his tenure, he has three coaches with a better average final finish than his 7.5 over those 8 years: Gasso, Walton and Murphy.

He has developed Jess Moore, Cheridan Hawkins, Karissa Hovinga, Megan Kleist, Miranda Elish and Maggie Balint, with Elish the only consensus stud at the time  she committed.

White has next-to-zero in-state feeder compared with UCLA, Florida, Arizona ... EVEN Washington, Michigan and Oklahoma.

And, further, rainy-and-not-really-close-to-anyone's home Oregon simply is not for everyone

Of his 19 players, 11 are from the Eastern or Central time zones... That is more than 50 percent of the roster who has to skip four Thanksgivings in a row at home -- just as one indication of the distance issue.

He and his staff turn over rocks like no one else.

Incredible job.

And, God help them if Texas offers him $800K-plus when they finally boot Clark, and Oregon doesn't retain him.

Doesn't get it done. PUHHHHLEASE

HenryLouisAaron

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Reply with quote  #41 
<< A long and winding road this is, indeed >> (3LT)

Ok... I think it's time that we "Get Back" to some softball.

; )
3leftturns

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Reply with quote  #42 
I've got blisters on my fingers!
HenryLouisAaron

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Reply with quote  #43 
<< Wow - so sensitive.  I think there was a solicitation for comments on the coaches.  Keep in mind, I'm a huge Ducks fan and could care less about the Sooners. >> (parbar61)


parbar61 -  I am a huge Sooners fan... but I still greatly enjoy watching your Ducks play.
They have a great team and are fun to watch. I wish them well and hope they have a great season.
HenryLouisAaron

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Reply with quote  #44 
<< Doesn't get it done. PUHHHHLEASE >> (3LT)

3LT - While I agree with everything in your post... 
you are misrepresenting what parbar61 said in that original post (#34) which I will re-post below:

<< I might give this more credence than others do but Gasso has gotten it done while White hasn't.  To the extent players look to their coach for guidance and reassurance during crucial times, I have to believe Gasso has a huge edge there.
 >> (parbar61)

That portion of his sentence ("Gasso has gotten it done while White hasn't) is absolutely true.
He is just stating that Gasso has won the title three times during this period - while White has not gotten that done. 
It is simply a fact.
Scupino

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Reply with quote  #45 
If the Kiwi is so bloody great, why can't he get the job done like Gasso?
pabar61

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Reply with quote  #46 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3leftturns


No way you are a Ducks fan, saying that doesn't-get-it-done crap.

In 2009, Oregon was 16-34

White took over in summer of 2009.

Despite taking over that 16-win team, he has never missed making the Sweet 16, going 24-0 in regional play.

They lost painful game 3s of Supers twice, keeping them from having made OKC six years in a row.

During his tenure, he has three coaches with a better average final finish than his 7.5 over those 8 years: Gasso, Walton and Murphy.

He has developed Jess Moore, Cheridan Hawkins, Karissa Hovinga, Megan Kleist, Miranda Elish and Maggie Balint, with Elish the only consensus stud at the time  she committed.

White has next-to-zero in-state feeder compared with UCLA, Florida, Arizona ... EVEN Washington, Michigan and Oklahoma.

And, further, rainy-and-not-really-close-to-anyone's home Oregon simply is not for everyone

Of his 19 players, 11 are from the Eastern or Central time zones... That is more than 50 percent of the roster who has to skip four Thanksgivings in a row at home -- just as one indication of the distance issue.

He and his staff turn over rocks like no one else.

Incredible job.

And, God help them if Texas offers him $800K-plus when they finally boot Clark, and Oregon doesn't retain him.

Doesn't get it done. PUHHHHLEASE



Go F yourself.  My daughter graduated from Oregon last year.  We've rented houses there and I've been to Autzen.  I didn't bag on White. I simply asked if Gasso winning a natty had a positive influence on her team that White can't re-produce.

Stop being a homer and engage in a real discussion.

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Will I Wynn is a poster who used to go by the name of Dewey.  He used to criticize people who did that.
pabar61

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Reply with quote  #47 
Quote:
Originally Posted by HenryLouisAaron
<< Wow - so sensitive.  I think there was a solicitation for comments on the coaches.  Keep in mind, I'm a huge Ducks fan and could care less about the Sooners. >> (parbar61)


parbar61 -  I am a huge Sooners fan... but I still greatly enjoy watching your Ducks play.
They have a great team and are fun to watch. I wish them well and hope they have a great season.


I love watching them play too and I love the Ducks overall.  But apparently, around here, just like in the Miscellaneous forum, if you have anything that is not completely positive about someone's favorite, they win the national championship of being butthurt about it.

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Will I Wynn is a poster who used to go by the name of Dewey.  He used to criticize people who did that.
3leftturns

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Reply with quote  #48 

What White has gotten done -- IT -- is just as impressive. I did not take 'IT' to mean winning the national title in front of 10,003 adoring fans and umpires.

How many titles would the Sooners have playing the WCWS in at a far-away locale? Two years ago, Parker was able to get major hometown treatment during her exhausting run. And last year, the blues made a singular impact, more in the Washington game than the Oregon game even, with that being in the winners bracket.

I personally think that White's WAR would be the biggest number.

I have bias, but I also gave you what I believe are incontrovertible facts above.

 

pabar61

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Reply with quote  #49 
You also said "no way" I'm a Ducks fan.  Is that an incontrovertible fact or just a stupid statement?

Are you able to agree that Gasso winning a natty has the possibility of giving her an advantage with her team over a coach that hasn't?  Or are you blinded by your "incontrovertible facts"?

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Will I Wynn is a poster who used to go by the name of Dewey.  He used to criticize people who did that.
3leftturns

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Reply with quote  #50 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pabar61


Go F yourself.  My daughter graduated from Oregon last year.  We've rented houses there and I've been to Autzen.  I didn't bag on White. I simply asked if Gasso winning a natty had a positive influence on her team that White can't re-produce.

Stop being a homer and engage in a real discussion.
I didn't make that s*** up above.

Dispute what isn't a fact
3leftturns

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Reply with quote  #51 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pabar61
You also said "no way" I'm a Ducks fan.  Is that an incontrovertible fact or just a stupid statement?

Are you able to agree that Gasso winning a natty has the possibility of giving her an advantage with her team over a coach that hasn't?  Or are you blinded by your "incontrovertible facts"?
Any time a team does something once, it is easier to do it again
3leftturns

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Reply with quote  #52 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pabar61


I love watching them play too and I love the Ducks overall.  But apparently, around here, just like in the Miscellaneous forum, if you have anything that is not completely positive about someone's favorite, they win the national championship of being butthurt about it.
Again... if you think I was making that stuff up, let me know where
HenryLouisAaron

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Reply with quote  #53 
<< What White has gotten done -- IT -- is just as impressive... 

...I personally think that White's WAR would be the biggest number.

I have bias, but I also gave you what I believe are incontrovertible facts above. >> (3LT)


+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


There is no denying that what White has accomplished is amazing.
He is absolutely a phenomenal coach.
All of the facts you presented are excellent proof of his greatness as a coach.

BUT... I still have to take three national titles - as a tad more impressive.


3leftturns

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Reply with quote  #54 
My point is that no program takes a bigger step back if they lose their coach.

Yeah, Oklahoma better positioned to win it all once in the Elite Eight. They've done it twice in a row with barely any graduation...it is old hat.

Agree there
pabar61

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Reply with quote  #55 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3leftturns
I didn't make that s*** up above.

Dispute what isn't a fact


You said "No way you are a Ducks fan"

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Will I Wynn is a poster who used to go by the name of Dewey.  He used to criticize people who did that.
3leftturns

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Reply with quote  #56 
Quote:
Originally Posted by HenryLouisAaron
<< What White has gotten done -- IT -- is just as impressive... 

...I personally think that White's WAR would be the biggest number.

I have bias, but I also gave you what I believe are incontrovertible facts above. >> (3LT)


+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


There is no denying that what White has accomplished is amazing.
He is absolutely a phenomenal coach.
All of the facts you presented are excellent proof of his greatness as a coach.

BUT... I still have to take three national titles - as a tad more impressive.


Again, Parker and Ricketts were consensus absolute studs the moment they committed.

Agree to disagree
pabar61

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Reply with quote  #57 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3leftturns
Again... if you think I was making that stuff up, let me know where


You're just a ridiculously blinded homer.

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Will I Wynn is a poster who used to go by the name of Dewey.  He used to criticize people who did that.
HenryLouisAaron

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Reply with quote  #58 
<< Any time a team does something once, it is easier to do it again >> (3LT)

Exactly!
3leftturns

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Reply with quote  #59 

Quote:
Originally Posted by pabar61


You said "No way you are a Ducks fan"
OK. If you say so.

pabar61

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Reply with quote  #60 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3leftturns

OK. If you say so.


 



I'm surprised that anyone engages you.  I'm done with you.

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Will I Wynn is a poster who used to go by the name of Dewey.  He used to criticize people who did that.
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