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sbmom1812

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Reply with quote  #31 
Dewey I dont think we need all our states turning into states like Cali, NY, and Illinois.  We wouldnt have enough other states to help pay for their crap.  Yes, obamacare will create alot of public sector jobs, like the 1600 new IRS jobs and all the state jobs and yes even private sector jobs.  I do not agree with your articles however.  The private sector will pay.  Many more of the middle class and poor will end up paying more for lesser quality of care.  People will be working two part time jobs to try and make ends meet.  But I know you think it will be different than the BS that already is medicaid, so more power to ya.  You will never believe.  California is all ready going bankrupt with your eutopian BS, but you could care less.  Next thing you will say is that the rest of the country needs to bail out cali's butt. You guys thought money was leaving before to go overseas.  Just wait.
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Susan
sbmom1812

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Reply with quote  #32 
More food for thought.

http://www.bit.ly/Xdz5lO



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Susan
Dewey

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Reply with quote  #33 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sbmom1812

Next thing you will say is that the rest of the country needs to bail out cali's butt.


Not to worry...it ain't gonna happen.  Brown knows butts.
Softballfanatic

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Reply with quote  #34 
Unfortunately he knows the inside better than the outside!
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Jerry Wallace "For The Love Of The Game"
Dewey

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Reply with quote  #35 
He must have asspirations.
BillSmith

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Reply with quote  #36 
Dewey-

Tried to follow your pun with another butt the spell checker kept revising to...

Midnight at the Onasis


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Sometimes you are the mole, sometimes the mushroom.
Dewey

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Reply with quote  #37 
Funny.  Wasn't that version digitally remastered?
BillSmith

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Reply with quote  #38 
No. Definitely an analog deliberation.
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Sometimes you are the mole, sometimes the mushroom.
Dewey

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Reply with quote  #39 

Excellent!  Speaking of butts, did you hear about the GOP prognosticator who had his head way up his own and still couldn't predict the outcome?   

BillSmith

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Reply with quote  #40 
Wow! How did he get that way? Intentional fortitude or forced assignment?
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Sometimes you are the mole, sometimes the mushroom.
sbmom1812

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Reply with quote  #41 
another interesting read about where we could be not long from now with obamacare.

http://www.bit.ly/WeYgD8



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Susan
Dewey

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Reply with quote  #42 
The Fraser Institute has a serious bias towards private health care.  Read these comments by a Doctor in Canada.  Besides, is there no confidence we can tweak and improve our health care program if problems arise?  So much pessimism. I'm babysitting all weekend at one of my daughter's homes and the theme on many of her walls is "live, love, laugh".  Sure we have problems to solve but there is nothing wrong with a little optimism now and then.
sbmom1812

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Reply with quote  #43 
Dewey history has shown, but you always choose to ignore. Our healthcare, just like our education sytem, govt, etc... has done a steady slide down hill since more govt and socialism has been introduced, but you always want to ignore and have excuses!  Cali, NY, Illinois are perfect examples right here on how liberalism/socialism kills and just enslaves poor but the teachers unions and town admin etc  are making out like fat cats.  Its gross but you continue in your kool aid stupor.
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Susan
Dewey

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Reply with quote  #44 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sbmom1812
Dewey,  its gross but you continue in your kool aid stupor.

sbmom1812

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Reply with quote  #45 
Great things to come!

http://www.cato-at-liberty.org/laszewski-on-obamacare-get-ready-for-some-startling-rate-increases/


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Susan
Dewey

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Reply with quote  #46 
Another viewpoint from a Forbes article - The health insurance companies absolutely love this law. They just got a guaranteed customer base of at least 50 million. And guess what? Premiums will come down because of it. Under ObamaCare, your monthly health insurance premiums will now be affordable. I have no idea how people can claim that health insurers will suffer.
Dewey

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Reply with quote  #47 
CoachB25 - The question in the article asked how insurers will suffer.  In any event, the point that 50 million more customers for insurers will lead to lower premiums makes economic sense to me.  Couple this fact with a requirement to make preventive care more accessible, and serious health results less likely, and insurers have additional avenues for savings that may limit the need for higher premiums.  Again, makes logical sense to me but I suppose we'll have to let it all play out to know for sure.  What is the logic that explains why insurers must drastically increase premiums any more than they have done for decades?  It can't be because they have more business.
Softballfanatic

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Reply with quote  #48 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewey
CoachB25 - The question in the article asked how insurers will suffer.  In any event, the point that 50 million more customers for insurers will lead to lower premiums makes economic sense to me.  Couple this fact with a requirement to make preventive care more accessible, and serious health results less likely, and insurers have additional avenues for savings that may limit the need for higher premiums.  Again, makes logical sense to me but I suppose we'll have to let it all play out to know for sure.  What is the logic that explains why insurers must drastically increase premiums any more than they have done for decades?  It can't be because they have more business.


Maybe it is because of all of the now mandated additional coverages you alluded to that may or may not manifest in savings over time. The only sure thing is that more mandated coverages today, will cost more money today! Hence Coache's increases? I don't know. I'm not that smart but fairly logical.

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Dewey

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Reply with quote  #49 
Softballfanatic - I suspect health insurance will always rise and it's better to say lower premium increases than lower premiums.  The point of the legislation is to dramatically reduce the ongoing rise in health care costs in this Country.  Maybe we need the exchanges to kick in before premium increases get smaller, (mine was 4% last September).  Maybe it will take longer term to see the preventive health results that will lead to lower premiums.  Who knows?  In any event, I was talking logic with regards to more consumers which may lower overall insurance prices, or at least lower size in increases.  Everyone can choose the article they believe is most accurate as I just wanted to point out the differing opinions.  As for Coach saying middle class being taxed into oblivion, I have no idea where this conclusion comes from.
Dewey

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Reply with quote  #50 
CoachB25 - I don't doubt anyone who says their premiums increased.  There are many reasons for our various costs going up or down.  Maybe in your case, the union gave up some benefits and were required to pay a larger share of their health insurance costs.  It may have nothing to do with what the insurer is charging your employer, or State, and everything to do with your present obligation.  Many times employees have no idea what the cost of their particular insurance is to their employer.
keepinitreal

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Reply with quote  #51 
Yes we are all mistaken Coach, only dewey can be correct.  We are 3 months past our contract deadline from August 15th [working without a contract, not on strike].  One of our major sticking points is that our company is asking $2-3,000 yearly increase in premiums because of added costs of "affordable" [laughable] health care act, most notably covering dependents until 26.  Which by the way, none of us asked for.  Company will likely win out, so how is this helpful or beneficial to have such a thing shoved down our throats?  Why do we have to cite articles that say health care costs will not go up when real life stories say they do?  I see things haven't changed around here
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"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
spazsdad

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Reply with quote  #52 
I had to give up my plan after rates went up from 800 to 1100 per month. Just couldn't swing it anymore. Signed up for a lower priced plan, obviously giving up many benefits, and now that plan has also gone up and it does not cover any type of well care. So I guess I will just have to wait until I get sick to find out if I have anything wrong instead of trying to find it in the early stages. Where is that preventative care benefit again?
Did find out that birth control would be covered for my 14 yr old but she does not need it as she was raised to be more responsible than some.


Dewey I don't see how you can believe that mandating additional coverages will lead to lower rates. It just can't happen until maybe the government ultimately takes over the whole program and then God help anyone that needs it.

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ForeverInBlue

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Reply with quote  #53 
It's the " affordable" health care act, and you will afford it, whether you like it or not.
If it was going to save money, why did the Supreme Court call it a tax?
Let freedom ring.
Dewey

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Reply with quote  #54 
CoachB25 - Somebody throws out the term "mistaken" as if I said such a word and then others pile on.  Go figure.  Anyway, back to the discussion.  From 1999 to 2009, health insurance rates rose 131% while inflation was 28%.  Rates have been rising long before the AHCA was passed.  Rest assured, we didn't pass Obamacare to increase our overall health costs in this Country.  The goal is to reign in costs, particularly Medicare and Medicaid, and hopefully we succeed.  Hope some of you are willing to give it time, not that you have a choice.  Once again, health premiums are going to rise, always have, and we're trying to slow the growth.  Not sure what anyone is trying to prove by their personal stories but I'll add mine just the same.

I pay the bill at work and only one couple is on our group policy, (not me).  Their premium went from $1664 to $1734 monthly between 2011 and 2012.  I'm on my wife's policy at her work and she paid $50 weekly in 2009, $70 weekly in 2012, and $72.50 weekly starting in January 2013.  Our deductible will rise $200 each and our out of pocket maximum will rise $600 each.  I have no idea if the Company saw a large increase or not, nor do I know what her full premium would be.  I'm not seeing the dramatic increases being reported here.  I'll let others try to explain why that is.

Possible scenario - Health insurance costs $800 per employee and employer charges employee $400.  Next year, insurance goes up 10%, ($80 each), and employer cannot afford increase passing it all down to employee, (now $480 per month).  Employee thinks rates went up 20%.  Wrong.
Dewey

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Reply with quote  #55 
Quote:
Originally Posted by keepinitreal


You ever served on a jury??  until you are presented with all the facts then you should open eyes and ears before engaging keyboard. 



Precisely...and it appears the jury is still out regarding Obamacare and increased premiums.  Here's one study:

Consumers saved nearly $1.5 billion in 2011 as a result of rules in President Obama's healthcare law.

The average cost of an employer-provided family health plan jumped 4% to $15,745 between 2011 and 2012, a cost shared by employers and employees, according to an annual survey released in September by the Kaiser Family Foundation and the Health Research & Educational Trust. 
woody

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Reply with quote  #56 
Hmm, me thinks that running a staffing agency will take on new meaning. Now employers will pay the extra dime to avoid insurance costs, and penalties. Staffing agencies will offer bare bones coverage. Temp hiring of part time, rotational employee blocks will increase. The job seekers will now line up each morning at staffing agencies to get their "part time" work assignments like a day labor center. Bring your lunch pail, a pair of work clothes, and maybe some office attire, you may be multitasking throughout the week, working 27 hours.  
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sbmom1812

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Reply with quote  #57 
You libs are unbelievable.  You can not add mandates for extra coverage with tons of extra regs etc... without extra cost. you havent added any extra payers at this point but youve mandated all kinds of coverage.  if anything you have less indiviuals payers because young adults stay on parents policy.  Why the he// do you think he wanted this sh't to kick in after the election.  Dont feed the BS!
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Susan
Dewey

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Reply with quote  #58 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sbmom1812
You libs are unbelievable.  You can not add mandates for extra coverage with tons of extra regs etc... without extra cost.


sbmom - Believable or not, you fail to take into account the requirement that insurance companies spend 80% of premiums on health care.  What effect do you "believe" that has on rates?
sbmom1812

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Reply with quote  #59 
Dewey no I dont fail to take that into account.  I am fully aware.  You willnever acknowledge what is staring you in the face!   THIS IS INCREASING OUR COSTS AND WILL KILL QUALITY AND YOUR PRECIOUS IPAB COULD DECIDE TO KILL ME IF I LIVE LONG ENOUGH?  BUT OH I FORGOT YOU ARE THE CARING ONE!
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Susan
DietCoke

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Reply with quote  #60 
sbmom, your current insurance company could also have decided to kill you.  They could cancel your coverage.  They could deny a treatment as "experimental".  They could refuse to pay for a drug, saying its effectiveness was unproven.  They could say they will only pay for generics, when you need the brand name drug.  They could raise your premiums to a level you could not afford.  They could raise deducibles and co-pays. 

The IPAB is not a "death panel" as some conservative news organizations imply. 


A March 2012 CNN article states -

Earlier this week, Republican Rep. Scott DesJarlais of Tennessee told reporters that the IPAB panel was "designed to put a Washington bureaucrat between the patient and their doctor."

That's not the intent or the reality of the advisory board, insisted Dr. Donald Berwick, the former administrator of the federal Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services. For example, the law targeted by the repeal effort specifically forbids the advisory board from rationing health care to reduce spending.

"We're in a very polarized era. It's hard to have rational conversations with people" on the issue, Berwick told CNN.

Paul Van de Water, a senior fellow at the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities, said this week that "charges that the board is going to be able to deny people care are just flat out wrong."

"The law makes every effort to restrict the board so that it can't do that," Van de Water said. "And in fact, if anything, the charge is the opposite of the truth."

The 15-member IPAB board would comprise independent experts to recommend Medicare cost reductions starting in 2015 if Congress and the health care industry and insurers fail to agree on $300 billion in savings called for in the health care reform law.


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"The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists."

-- Hannah Arendt, “The Origins of Totalitarianism” (1951)

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