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EarlyGrayce

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Reply with quote  #4141 
Quote:
Originally Posted by keepinitreal
. That on purpose?


Yea, I was referencing that dewy could edit PDad's post for him...You know, since dewy is a moderator who locks threads, delete's posts. alter's posts, He's very untrustworthy.

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"To see the world, things dangerous to come to, to see behind walls, draw closer, to find each other, and to feel. That is the purpose of life."
EarlyGrayce

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Reply with quote  #4142 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pabar61


What's great is that Dewey has posted on another thread so he's obviously stalking this thread and enjoying what he thinks are conservatives fighting with each other.  He doesn't realize that this is what Nancy Pelosi wouldn't recognize as honest debate.


Roger that. He's all excited thinking conservatives are attacking each other. He gets confused a lot these days.

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"To see the world, things dangerous to come to, to see behind walls, draw closer, to find each other, and to feel. That is the purpose of life."
Dewey

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Reply with quote  #4143 
Let me try it this way.  Do any of you support the Sen Rand Paul approach which calls for a complete repeal of Obamacare and then later trying to put together a replacement plan that will pass?  Anybody on board with Sen Paul?
EarlyGrayce

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Reply with quote  #4144 
Yes.
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"To see the world, things dangerous to come to, to see behind walls, draw closer, to find each other, and to feel. That is the purpose of life."
uwApoligist

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Reply with quote  #4145 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewey
Let me try it this way.  Do any of you support the Sen Rand Paul approach which calls for a complete repeal of Obamacare and then later trying to put together a replacement plan that will pass?  Anybody on board with Sen Paul?

Yes,  Pauls is a better approach than getting kicked in the nuts 3 times.  

If Ryan is willing to stand there and let them kick him in the nuts over and over, bully to him as well. 
PDad

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Reply with quote  #4146 
Rand submitted a replacement plan that has no support. He is irrelevant beyond his own vote.

Cotton and other senators should put together and pass a full repeal and replace bill. uwA says it isn't hard.

FWIW, Ryan only mentioned AHCA and Price's regulatory changes today as making health care affordable.
uwApoligist

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Reply with quote  #4147 
Ryans plan is definitely struggling.  Let's see what happens.
Dewey

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Reply with quote  #4148 
I gave my opinion as to why neither the Senate nor the House will try and pass repeal of Obamacare prior to having a replacement plan.  Anyone else care to comment as to why?  They passed it before so why not now?
PDad

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Reply with quote  #4149 

Word of them working on a "manager's amendment" started coming out yesterday. Jake Tapper pressed Ryan about changes they're making and he said more flexibility on Medicaid.

Pence met with the Rep Study Cmte today - http://dailysignal.com/2017/03/15/rsc-chair-talks-hopeful-meeting-with-pence-on-obamacare/.

uwApoligist

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Reply with quote  #4150 
Quote:
Originally Posted by PDad

Word of them working on a "manager's amendment" started coming out yesterday. Jake Tapper pressed Ryan about changes they're making and he said more flexibility on Medicaid.

Pence met with the Rep Study Cmte today - http://dailysignal.com/2017/03/15/rsc-chair-talks-hopeful-meeting-with-pence-on-obamacare/.


still seems like there a lot behind it.  Just starting to hear things that make it sound pretty dicey right now. 

You think it has a shot?
PDad

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Reply with quote  #4151 
I think it will pass House with some changes. The Senate is tougher because the margin is smaller and it faces threatening opposition from both conservatives and moderates - it will be quite an accomplishment to get any version through. People will have to decide between compromising on AHCA or letting Obamacare die on its own.
Dewey

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Reply with quote  #4152 
Quote:
Originally Posted by PDad
People will have to decide between compromising on AHCA or letting Obamacare die on its own.


Why can't they vote on repeal?  Why did you omit this option?

pabar - No bill to read here so are you in favor of repealing Obamacare as Sen Paul wishes and then moving on to trying to pass a replacement?
pabar61

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Reply with quote  #4153 
Yes - I'm in favor of full repeal.  I'm not convinced a replacement is needed.  Most of those previously uninsured wanted to be uninsured and all indications are that those that would be uninsured after repeal are choosing it to be that way.
PDad

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Reply with quote  #4154 
Quote:
Originally Posted by PDad
People will have to decide between compromising on AHCA or letting Obamacare die on its own.

They also need to decide whether it's better to negotiate with just fellow GOP members or with Dems too. Conservatives won't get everything they want either way, however they should get a better deal now without Dems.
Dewey

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Reply with quote  #4155 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pabar61
Yes - I'm in favor of full repeal.  I'm not convinced a replacement is needed.  Most of those previously uninsured wanted to be uninsured and all indications are that those that would be uninsured after repeal are choosing it to be that way.


Most of those on expanded Medicaid and many of those receiving subsidies would certainly return to the uninsured roles if Obamacare is repealed.  I doubt it will be by choice.
pabar61

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Reply with quote  #4156 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewey


Most of those on expanded Medicaid and many of those receiving subsidies would certainly return to the uninsured roles if Obamacare is repealed.  I doubt it will be by choice.


How many?
Dewey

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Reply with quote  #4157 
Not sure.  I'll wait for the CBO score.
PDad

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Reply with quote  #4158 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewey
Why can't they vote on repeal?  Why did you omit this option?

I've addressed it multiple times. IMO it's more recent than when you explained your position...
Dewey

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Reply with quote  #4159 
My position is leave Obamacare in place, fix it where possible, and move on.

I believe you told these folks repeal can't pass and Sen Paul says you might be wrong.  Why not try?
PDad

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Reply with quote  #4160 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pabar61
Yes - I'm in favor of full repeal. (can't pass FULL repeal via reconciliation) I'm not convinced a replacement is needed.  

The political ramifications would be significant. Moderates are concerned what will happen with AHCA and it would be far worse without any replacement. Dems would regain majorities and push for single payer. Grandstand Rand and other critics would continue on as vocal ideologues, albeit back in the minority.
keepinitreal

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Reply with quote  #4161 
Repeal never would fly.  Let it wither under it's own weight and then be ready with a well thought plan.  Take 6 more months and make it right.  dewy says time is of no importance.  "What's the rush?" he asked
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"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
pabar61

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Reply with quote  #4162 
Quote:
Originally Posted by PDad

The political ramifications would be significant. Moderates are concerned what will happen with AHCA and it would be far worse without any replacement. Dems would regain majorities and push for single payer. Grandstand Rand and other critics would continue on as vocal ideologues, albeit back in the minority.


He asked what I preferred, not what I thought was politically expedient or possible.
PDad

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Reply with quote  #4163 
Quote:
Originally Posted by keepinitreal
Repeal never would fly.  Let it wither under it's own weight and then be ready with a well thought plan.  Take 6 more months and make it right.  dewy says time is of no importance.  "What's the rush?" he asked

I agree and believe Trump does too. The satisfaction of killing it isn't worth the blow back.
keepinitreal

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Reply with quote  #4164 
Quote:
Originally Posted by PDad

 The satisfaction of killing it isn't worth the blow back.
 and dewy knows that.  We've all agreed that very few entitlements once granted, will ever die

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"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
uwApoligist

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Reply with quote  #4165 
I suspect you are right.  Repeal is in the wind right now.  Ryan pushed for his plan to have the first shot.  It is now looking like that is not going to happen either.

I think most more fiscally conservtive republicans were hoping Ryan failed and that would give them a shot at a more direct repeal.  It now looks like that is not going to happen either.  

Republicans appear to be letting Obamacare crush itself completely.  When Americans get another 30-50% jump in premiums this fall for 2018, they will utterly 5hit.  You might well have America's second tax revolution in full swing.  Come Jan you put a full repeal.  Everyone will be clamoring.  Any dems not from New York or California will commit suicide voting against repeal.
PDad

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Reply with quote  #4166 
- I found it very telling last Friday that Freedom Caucus chairman Meadows was defending AHCA on MJ rather than just criticizing it. I think their threats to block it are mainly leverage to get the bill as much to their liking as possible. They're also allowing members to vote on their own rather than as a bloc.

- I heard Cruz on Sunday making the argument that they can go after ACA's required benefits in reconciliation, which would be great news for lowering costs. Since Senate rules are the issue, I think senators should be the ones to push the reconciliation envelope.

- GOP released AHCA changes late last night - http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/republicans-accelerate-tax-relief-in-new-obamacare-repeal-bill/article/2617947.
- - Repeal ACA taxes this year instead of 2018.
- - Lower medical expense deduction threshold from 10% to 5.8%.
- - Bar taxpayer dollars (i.e. subsidies and Stability Fund) from paying for abortions or abortion coverage.
- - Allow states to opt for getting Medicaid funds as a block grant.
- - Allow work requirements for Medicaid.
- - Close Medicaid expansion from additional states.
- - Increase inflation rates for elderly and disabled Medicaid recipients.
- - Allow Senate to increase tax credits for ages 50 to 64.

- Trump met with GOP House members today - https://www.washingtonpost.com/powerpost/trump-arrives-on-capitol-hill-to-sell-house-gop-health-care-package/2017/03/21/e8ede3d2-0e2b-11e7-9b0d-d27c98455440_story.html.

“If we get this done, and tax reform, he believes we pick up 10 seats in the Senate and we add to our majority in the House,” said Rep. Chris Collins (R-N.Y.), the first member of Congress who endorsed Trump’s presidential bid. “If we don’t get it done, we lose the House and the Senate.”
uwApoligist

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Reply with quote  #4167 
Quote:
Originally Posted by PDad
- I found it very telling last Friday that Freedom Caucus chairman Meadows was defending AHCA on MJ rather than just criticizing it. I think their threats to block it are mainly leverage to get the bill as much to their liking as possible. They're also allowing members to vote on their own rather than as a bloc.

- I heard Cruz on Sunday making the argument that they can go after ACA's required benefits in reconciliation, which would be great news for lowering costs. Since Senate rules are the issue, I think senators should be the ones to push the reconciliation envelope.

- GOP released AHCA changes late last night - http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/republicans-accelerate-tax-relief-in-new-obamacare-repeal-bill/article/2617947.
- - Repeal ACA taxes this year instead of 2018.
- - Lower medical expense deduction threshold from 10% to 5.8%.
- - Bar taxpayer dollars (i.e. subsidies and Stability Fund) from paying for abortions or abortion coverage.
- - Allow states to opt for getting Medicaid funds as a block grant.
- - Allow work requirements for Medicaid.
- - Close Medicaid expansion from additional states.
- - Increase inflation rates for elderly and disabled Medicaid recipients.
- - Allow Senate to increase tax credits for ages 50 to 64.

- Trump met with GOP House members today - https://www.washingtonpost.com/powerpost/trump-arrives-on-capitol-hill-to-sell-house-gop-health-care-package/2017/03/21/e8ede3d2-0e2b-11e7-9b0d-d27c98455440_story.html.

“If we get this done, and tax reform, he believes we pick up 10 seats in the Senate and we add to our majority in the House,” said Rep. Chris Collins (R-N.Y.), the first member of Congress who endorsed Trump’s presidential bid. “If we don’t get it done, we lose the House and the Senate.”

I think that is a good point.  Getting tax reform done is a winner for seats in 2018.  I wish ACA was a bit easier, maybe Ryans 3 phase nut kicking ends up allowing them to get more done.

I heard a characterization from Jordan that the current plan is still a way to prop up a full collapse that is obamacare.  Indicating he thinks allowing that to hang around the dems neck, fully fail and sink them for years to come is a better strategy.  That the rush now is that money is needed to go to Insurance, the so called Stability funding, and that is needed immediately, and we should be getting more for that immediate need.

The bill seemed fully stalled after Fridays Trump arm twisting session, and was loosing momentum.  The changes they agreed to on Friday and over hte weekend now seem to have things moving forward again.

Still some super huge numbers for the cost of all of this.  The problem is that obummercare is straddled with cost and all of those costs flow into these new plans.  Still seems better to just cut all of that loose, and start with a cleaner slate.  The cut loose could be down the road 18 months.   That is how they strapped all these costs to it all in the first place.

spazsdad

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Reply with quote  #4168 
I guess there was, or is coming up, some Keep ACA protest going on in LA. Saw a promoted tweet from a clinic that was offering free bus rides to the event. Just sign up

pabar61

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Reply with quote  #4169 
Quote:
Originally Posted by spazsdad
I guess there was, or is coming up, some Keep ACA protest going on in LA. Saw a promoted tweet from a clinic that was offering free bus rides to the event. Just sign up


Obama is probably coordinating it.
uwApoligist

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Reply with quote  #4170 
ok, no vote today.  Complete collapse of strategy for this bill.
What is the next play?
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