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JoiseyGuy

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Reply with quote  #31 
Dewey - Please explain to me why the Standard and Poor's is closing at a record high and we have extensive unemployment. Is this a statement about the state of capitalism in our nation currently or some thing else?      Frank
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"Freethinkers are those who are willing to use their minds without prejudice and without fearing to understand things that clash with their own customs, privileges, or beliefs. This state of mind is not common, but it is essential for right thinking. Where it is absent discussion is apt to become worse than useless." Leo Tolstoy

"Do not try to teach pigs to sing. It will frustrate you and infuriate the pigs who will unite in anger against you, and you will never achieve singing your song". Dr. Petersen
ice_67

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Reply with quote  #32 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pabar61
I take issue with the title of this thread.  Given that Obama has been re-elected, we need to hold judgment.  Certainly, my opinion is that Obama is taking us in completely the wrong direction but the worst is yet to come and we can't yet know the extent of his failure.  Sadly, we'll have to wait until we're on the verge of Greece in 2016 before we declare that Obama has indeed failed.

pabar61, you might have a point. I'll wait until 2016 and modify the title to "Obama has failed as President- Again".
sbmom1812

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Reply with quote  #33 
LMU I think it also is a statement about how much money Obama and his fed has funded wall street fat cats and corporate fat cats.  GE will not pay any taxes again, etc....  Liberal policies in general create  more haves and have nots and hurt middle and lower working class more.  Regs kill alot of start up and small business but not so much the ones that have reached the size to be on wall street.  Govt feeding wall street.  Bubble will burst just like with housing crisis that liberal policies are killing once again with statism and housing.
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Susan
JoiseyGuy

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Reply with quote  #34 
Charlie - My wife sends her kudos, as do I, for your superior answer to my question.  In general, I supposed so, but your answer reinforces everything that I thought despite not being in "the game" any more. I do think that you skip over the "greed" factor in capitalistic enterprise caused by the singular value, profit and more profit (good for the stockholders but bad for the working class).   I remember looking at a special on robots on TV and thinking "Look out American workers".  What did the Japanese do when robots cornered the labor market?  The service industry is one obvious answer, but there are only so many of those jobs, and they pay little.  OK, we've identified the major problem.  Is there an answer for contemporary kids who do not or can not become major league professionals like doctors, lawyers, and Indian Chiefs.  Tech schools?  The days when a guy achieved minor upward mobility with a wheel barrow is gone.  What can our nation do to meet the situation that you describe?  What is available to second generation welfare babies except selling drugs and collecting welfare?  Again, you gave a wonderful answer, and thank you.   Frank

PS - I've heard enough "Blame Obama" from the usual suspects.  How about offers of potential solutions instead of childish foot stomping because a particular Party didn't win an election?  The future of a generation in our nation and beyond is at stake.  Everything written about a nation too dependent on big government could become worse to the financial detriment of that very government and the people it represents, particularly in the micro economy,  that is if solutions that create means through which all people can vie for meaningful jobs aren't improved.  Curbing by law downsizing and outsourcing (not eliminating) would be a start.  If large corporation expect government help, then one hand should wash the other. Capitalism should not completely govern the government.  Tech schools would be another possibility.  Hands up instead of hands out would be a major step.  Any other ideas to raise the cultural horizons of the lowest financial-cultural echelons of our society?  The rest of us are doing just fine, thank you.  

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"Freethinkers are those who are willing to use their minds without prejudice and without fearing to understand things that clash with their own customs, privileges, or beliefs. This state of mind is not common, but it is essential for right thinking. Where it is absent discussion is apt to become worse than useless." Leo Tolstoy

"Do not try to teach pigs to sing. It will frustrate you and infuriate the pigs who will unite in anger against you, and you will never achieve singing your song". Dr. Petersen
TheHammer

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Reply with quote  #35 
people as long as other countries workers get paid less, we will never see a change in our economy.
As i have said many a time only the oil and armament industries are surviving our sad economy.
even the oil workers in refineries have decreased by  HUGE AMOUNT. don't expect any changes for years to come.
Dewey

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Reply with quote  #36 
Quote:
Originally Posted by keepinitreal


So you issue me an assignment and then impose what I can use or not use in my example?  Interesting to say the least....and the beat goes on


kiir - Using this logic, you can call President Obama a felon because you may believe he has committed a felony at some time in his life.  I was asking for some "facts", not opinions, that Obama is shredding the Constitution.  According to the steps laid out in our Constitution, Obamacare has currently been deemed Constitutional.  The ban on assault weapons has not been found to be unconstitutional.  These are two facts that fail to support your accusation.  You do have one fact to support your claim, the three judge Appeals court, and I was asking if you had any others.  One failure in the courts seems to be mighty slim evidence to support your "shredding" claim.

Joisey - I think emphasis on training and educating our young folks is part of the solution.  Invest in education and make it more available.
JoiseyGuy

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Reply with quote  #37 
Dewey - How about the idea that if a person is on Welfare and not the primary caregiver to children, that person must go to a vocational school or be cut off government aid if the person is post high school age?   How about a reversible operation preventing pregnancy on any woman on welfare who has a child?     Frank
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"Freethinkers are those who are willing to use their minds without prejudice and without fearing to understand things that clash with their own customs, privileges, or beliefs. This state of mind is not common, but it is essential for right thinking. Where it is absent discussion is apt to become worse than useless." Leo Tolstoy

"Do not try to teach pigs to sing. It will frustrate you and infuriate the pigs who will unite in anger against you, and you will never achieve singing your song". Dr. Petersen
JoiseyGuy

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Reply with quote  #38 
Hammer - As a wise man said, "If ya can't sell oil, then sell salt".     Frank
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"Freethinkers are those who are willing to use their minds without prejudice and without fearing to understand things that clash with their own customs, privileges, or beliefs. This state of mind is not common, but it is essential for right thinking. Where it is absent discussion is apt to become worse than useless." Leo Tolstoy

"Do not try to teach pigs to sing. It will frustrate you and infuriate the pigs who will unite in anger against you, and you will never achieve singing your song". Dr. Petersen
sbmom1812

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Reply with quote  #39 
LMU I think that answer fed right into JG wanting to wash govts hand of any responsibility for what is going on. 
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Susan
ice_67

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Reply with quote  #40 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoiseyGuy
Charlie - My wife sends her kudos, as do I, for your superior answer to my question.  In general, I supposed so, but your answer reinforces everything that I thought despite not being in "the game" any more. I do think that you skip over the "greed" factor in capitalistic enterprise caused by the singular value, profit and more profit (good for the stockholders but bad for the working class)... 

I thnk the Greed is more on the government side. The greater the government control, the more greed there is. The people who are the worst off in our world don't live under capitalism, they live is societies that have turned away from or are prevented from embracing capitalism and free trade. 
TheHammer

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Reply with quote  #41 

interesting article in the OCRegister about a book written by Martin Ford : The Light in the tunnel.
in which it stated that by 2089 about 75% of american workers will be unemployed.
Do you by any chance agree with him ???????

sbmom1812

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Reply with quote  #42 
LMU I am not blaming obama, I am blaming big govt period. Big govt is a big negative for private sector employment.  Ice I totally agree.  Why has the washington area just surpassed Silicon valley in wealth?  Two reasons.  California is chasing business and families away and Washington has exploded for various reasons.  any time any politician tries to do something good to change it they are called extreme, maligned by the press.  The press digs up skeletons and if there are no skeletons then they are made up.  Look how maligned tea party people have become for just wanting to do what the constitution says, limit govt.  Look at the depths to which people on here will go to protect that ever expanding, ever intrusive govt.

Perfect example is I havent seen anybody talking negatively about Emanuels strong arming banks to not supply funds to gun companies.  Guarantee these tactics and more are being used to get what they want and repubs are going along for the ride because they are afraid of the medias wrath and if we are going to keep any political power we better not make too many waves and better try and buy as many votes as we can too.

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Susan
TheHammer

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Reply with quote  #43 
Did any of you watched the program on TV about how Facebook came into being ????
that is how in the future people will make money, come up with something new for use by computers.
in my point of view the future in our country will be made of rich people and poor people.
No more middle class. in the future going to college will not make your life rich.
sbmom1812

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Reply with quote  #44 
Hammer as a rule I dont agree with the college statement.  Good education always helps anyone.  Certain forms and categories are definitely becoming less relevant. Change is a fact of life.
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Susan
TheHammer

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Reply with quote  #45 
Agree that going to college will help you in becoming more smart on how to run your life, but it will not guarantee succes in life as it used to do in the past.
i remember in my days when you were a senior, so many companies would be there for you to choose.
with great salaries specially if you were an engineer.
keepinitreal

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Reply with quote  #46 
OK dewey here is my answer, hope I get extra credit, to your homework assignment.



take all the time you need for your spin on his shredding of the Constitution

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"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
sbmom1812

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Reply with quote  #47 
And that just the "transparent" stuff.  Guarantee ya they have been doing what Rahm just did to the banks and gun businesses all along.  Its the chicago way!  



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Susan
Dewey

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Reply with quote  #48 
Quote:
Originally Posted by keepinitreal
OK dewey here is my answer, hope I get extra credit, to your homework assignment.



kiir - These are all one man's opinion of what he thinks is a violation of the Constitution.  Like I said, you can also find millions of people, not unlike this man, who think Obama has violated the Constitution because he is not a citizen or something of that nature.  I want some facts, determined by law or decision, (outside of last week's case), that Obama has done anything to violate the Constitution.  If I simply wanted you to provide citizens who think Obama is shredding the Constitution, I suppose you could find tens of millions of them.  But I wanted legal substantiation.
sbmom1812

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Reply with quote  #49 
dewey the thing you dont consider is that people in the govt are worse than people in corporate because the hide behind the power of govt with their greed and power mongering.

Thats what most politicians who go against the constitution hope for on both sides is that it will have to take the time, effjort and money to go through the courts.  What a good way to bury something usually and especially in our ever more liberal system where a  SC judge actually rewrites a law (which to my knowledge is not legal) to say Obamacare is legal.  Just like Rahm going after banks to dry up financing for gun companies is illegal.  If you go after enough fronts like the libshave definitely planned and are doing, there is only so much time and money and they know that.  But its disgusting, becausethey are not doing it for the betterment of anybody but theirempowerment.  Gun bans have already proven not to work.  Look at chicago and detroit.  Total liberal control.  That how much the libs care about the poor and down trodden.  I think some of the Blacks in chicago might be waking up though, because those cities have had nothing but liberal control really and look how bad they are.  Pretty much says how well govt as all levels tends to fix things.  VERY POORLY!  Just steals peoples moneyt to mainly enrich and empower themselves all while telling people they care and this is for your own sake or safety.  What a joke!

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Susan
Dewey

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Reply with quote  #50 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sbmom1812
  ...where a  SC judge actually rewrites a law (which to my knowledge is not legal) to say Obamacare is legal. 


This is where you are wrong.  This is legal and is completely spelled out in our Constitution.  Five members of the SC voted in favor of Obamacare and one of them spelled out his reasoning in writing.  I'll never understand why you, sbmom, or anyone else thinks they, or their representatives, should have greater power than what is spelled out in our Constitution.  Do you have a better system than our Constitution?
Dewey

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Reply with quote  #51 
Quote:
Originally Posted by LMUfan


Frank,

A lot of people use the term "greed" as a replacement for maximizing profits.  When they do that it points out one of two things. 



Joisey - This is where I usually ask for an example of Corporate "greed" that has nothing to do with "maximizing profits" and members tell me we're not obligated to answer your questions or play your games.  Let me know if you get an answer.

PS:  For example, if you have a cable TV bill, cell phone agreement, or a bank loan that you're having trouble fully understanding, it could be a case of Corporate greed or a case of maximizing profits, but I doubt seriously if you really give a dam*.  If you've ever been out to buy a new car and felt like you had to jump through hoops to make a deal, maybe you debated whether it was a case of greed or maximizing profits but I kind of doubt it.  I suppose many of us don't totally understand business and I can't help but thinking that's exactly what many businesses are hoping.
woody

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Reply with quote  #52 
JG, Dewey, if you don't like the deal, and feel there is "corporate greed", or profit motivated "greed", by all means don't buy the product. Do without, or pay the "greedy profit" and enjoy your purchase. I for one, wouldn't shop for "luxury" items in a Las Vegas Casino botique, because I know there is an extreme markup. When I buy a vehicle, I shop several dealers over the phone and internet. When I find the best price, I buy, and understand that just like a loaf of bread, there is greedy profit involved. Socialist bakers, tend to wake up late, and not produce a superior product, and rightly so. Why bother busting your back, when their is no greedy profit involved, and there is no competition?
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Rats flee from the sinking vessel. They traverse nimbly upon a rope, safely cleated to the dock, that is private enterprise. Socialism is dead, and tits up in the water. A bloated, death show, for rubberneckers of all classes to view.

"IT'S GOOD TO BE DA KING"
sbmom1812

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Reply with quote  #53 
dewey show me where rewriting a law is legal in the constitution.  The obama admin did not use the term tax in the law and specifically said to the people of US it was not a tax, then argued in front of SCOTUS it was a tax.  They still did not write it that way.  So a weak justice caved!  In essence, rewrot the law and said it was constitutional thru the govts powers of taxation.  Justices can not rewrite laws!


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Susan
sbmom1812

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Reply with quote  #54 
Woody, they like govt greed better.
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Susan
Dewey

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Reply with quote  #55 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sbmom1812
dewey show me where rewriting a law is legal in the constitution. 



sbmom - I carefully read your comments and compared them to the five SC Justices and I'm going to side with the Justices about what is Constitutional.
Dewey

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Reply with quote  #56 
Quote:
Originally Posted by woody
JG, Dewey, if you don't like the deal, and feel there is "corporate greed", or profit motivated "greed", by all means don't buy the product.


woody - I went to my Doctor and told him it hurts when I do this.  He said don't do that.

On a more serious note, if one has serious concerns about being taken advantage of in a contract, loan, or insurance agreement, the recommendation, with all due respect, that they refrain from executing any of the three, falls far short of being legitimate advice.  I'm confident we can and should do much better than this.
woody

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Reply with quote  #57 
Dewey, while I abide by what the Supreme Court decrees, I like sbmom, have some reservations about the SCOTUS not just ruling on the constitutionality of the law that was presented before them, but rewriting a law presented before them, and after the rewrite, pronouncing it constitutional. Do you not understand the difference we are pointing out? My point, and Susan's, is that the court should only rule on the constitutionality of laws as written by the legislature. When the SCOTUS starts down the slippery path of rewriting legislation, in order to pass it's constitutional charge, I believe they have not only violated the separation of powers, but have usurped power from the legislative branch. Please understand that I would be as vehemently opposed to this action, had it been done in order to make conservative legislation pass the bar as well. The reason for the 3 branches of government was a strict limit upon the individual powers of 1 or 2 over the 3rd. In the case of the HCB, this separation of powers was corrupted, and the SCOTUS, IMO overstepped their constitutional authority, in rewriting legislation, that is reserved exclusively for the legislative branch. You may be a fan of the decision, but please understand, that by allowing this overreach by the SCOTUS, a precedent has been set, that will allow one branch of government to overshadow the other two. This is not good for our Republic.
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Rats flee from the sinking vessel. They traverse nimbly upon a rope, safely cleated to the dock, that is private enterprise. Socialism is dead, and tits up in the water. A bloated, death show, for rubberneckers of all classes to view.

"IT'S GOOD TO BE DA KING"
Dewey

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Reply with quote  #58 
Quote:
Originally Posted by woody
Dewey,  My point, and Susan's, is that the court should only rule on the constitutionality of laws as written by the legislature. When the SCOTUS starts down the slippery path of rewriting legislation, in order to pass it's constitutional charge, I believe they have not only violated the separation of powers, but have usurped power from the legislative branch.


woody - I suppose where we differ is that you believe all of what you just wrote is true.  I believe otherwise.  Now what do we do?
woody

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Reply with quote  #59 
So, are you saying that you disagree with the seperation of powers that prevents the SCOTUS from writing Legislation? Please explain to me why you do not believe in the seperation of powers as provided for in the Constitutution.
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Rats flee from the sinking vessel. They traverse nimbly upon a rope, safely cleated to the dock, that is private enterprise. Socialism is dead, and tits up in the water. A bloated, death show, for rubberneckers of all classes to view.

"IT'S GOOD TO BE DA KING"
Dewey

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Posts: 24,423
Reply with quote  #60 
LMUFan - In 1999 I purchased a 300M Chrysler, (buying a car is not as easy as you say unless you're willing to just give in to any price), and eventually agreed to a price and interest rate.  After waiting for both paperwork and car to be prepared to take home, the agreement came out with a slightly higher price, lower interest rate, and identical monthly payment.  These folks were floored when I objected since the 60 month payment did not change one cent.  Of course, I knew better and understood if I decided to pay this car off in the next few months, I was out a few hundred more dollars.  I believe they took me for being naive and, needless to say, I made them rewrite the contract.  Eighty percent of their buyers would have ignored or missed such abuse.  Maybe it's not a big thing but it is another example of the misleading business practices I'm talking about.

woody - I don't believe the SCOTUS writes legislation.
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