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Dewey

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Reply with quote  #151 
keepinitreal - I asked if you think the vast majority of Liberals care about and remember their fellow citizens who have been killed in terrorist attacks.  There were no explanations no maybes involved.  You either think it's a majority, not a majority, or you don't know.  I was heaving you a big softball primarily because ForeverInBlue suggested Liberals don't remember those who have died on our soil, or elsewhere, in one of these tragic attacks.  I seriously doubt he truly believes that but I better not speculate.

Torture - I can't imagine many people believe torture cannot force information out of their subjects.  Torture me and I'll surely give you something.  Of course, I suppose some of the information is legitimate and some of it probably isn't.  In any event, it doesn't change my position of being totally against torture.  The much more important thing Leon Panetta said was we would have got it anyway without the torture, (not sure if he meant we would have obtained the information or we would have gotten Bin Laden).

Drones - I see fighter jets, drones, and missiles as all being part of the flying arsenal we use in war.  I don't distinguish between them to any great extent and they are all capable of causing civilian casualties and collateral damage.  I don't consider any of the three to be torture but, because of all the deaths wars cause, I truly want war to be the very very last resort utilized to solve international problems.

Chicago - I have little to say about Chicago because I have little knowledge of the problems they find themselves in.  It's tragic that so many have died in that city but I have no answers to provide and I doubt you or pabar have the necessary experience or training to provide advice of any significance.  If you're trying to blame President Obama, it's too far fetched for me to comment on.

ForeverInBlue

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Reply with quote  #152 
Dewey, then I assume you weren't part of the liberal outcry over Bush's "enemy combatants" definition, right?


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keepinitreal

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Reply with quote  #153 
FIB, way before your join date here, dewey was forever bleating that water boarding was the be all, end all of great American atrocities.   Now he wants to say "fighter jets, drones, and missiles as all being part of the flying arsenal we use in war", are all the same.  Well to me, shooting your enemy, cutting his testicles off or water boarding are all the same to me.


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"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
keepinitreal

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Reply with quote  #154 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewey


Chicago - I have little to say about Chicago because I have little knowledge of the problems they find themselves in.  It's tragic that so many have died in that city but I have no answers to provide and I doubt you or pabar have the necessary experience or training to provide advice of any significance.  If you're trying to blame President Obama, it's too far fetched for me to comment on.



Not obama's fault but look at those responsible in the chain of command in Chicago, pabar laid it out so nicely.  They are all democrats and then they want to burst on the national scene as if THEY are the experts on such matters.  How can they rid a nation of gun violence when democrat led cities, in democrat led states are the deadliest of all cities?  You claim pabar and I are no experts on the matter, what makes obama, dick durbin and rahm emmanuel experts on the matter of gun violence?  They know one thing, they know it exists but don't know what to do about it.

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"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
Dewey

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Reply with quote  #155 
ForeverInBlue - Search waterboarding and Dewey and find 22 posts.  You'll see me say once I was sickened by the fact we practiced what I consider torture.  Keepinitreal may have taken a little literary license in his post.  However, I do think it's a black eye in our history.  Waterboarding, Chicago gang violence, what's next?  Are these useful subjects to improve the image of the GOP?  I don't think so.
keepinitreal

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Reply with quote  #156 
and I ask, why would one be 'sickened' by water boarding but it's ok for unmanned aircraft to fly over areas and kill without discrimination civilians and enemy soldiers alike? 

For the record, I believe there is a place for drone deployment and interrogation by 'any means necessary'.  I vote yes on both. 

P.S. and Panetta was appeasing the pacifists by saying we would have gotten bin Laden anyway.  What if we saved another 3,000 people from being murdered by gathering that information in a more 'expedited' manner by waterboarding their sorry asses?

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"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
B10IS1

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Reply with quote  #157 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewey
B10 - I don't know how constructive it is to bring up the death tolls from our two wars but, if we must, let's get the information accurate.  There were 4852 deaths up through 2008 and 1811 from 2009 to date.  That's 6663 total.  Your records were for the war citizens were more supportive of, Afghanistan, and omitted the deaths from the war citizens look less favorably upon, Iraq.  As a result of focusing on Afghanistan after taking office, casualties under Obama in Afghanistan are 1547 compared to 630 through 2008 under Bush.  It's heartwrenching just typing this.

keepinitreal - You're not following the conversation.  If you need to take $300 Billion more out of the budget and you only have Defense and Mandatory left, then you choose between lowering elderly benefits or defense.  I'm saying it can't be done.  Nobody is going to reduce benefits for current retirees so the quesetion remains, how do you cut more money once you have cut all Government spending that is not Defense or entitlements?  (After a little research I've learned non-defense discretionary spending is $800 Billion rather than the $500 Billion I thought it was.)  The message I was criticizing was making a proposal that was impossible and presenting it as feasable. 

Keepinitreal - You don't have to answer this question but do you think the vast majority of Liberals care if our citizens die in a terrorist attack and remember their loss?
Stand corrected # were for Afgan. If you read all my posting I stated it did no good to blame anyone & we should get out.
what I was trying to refute by the post is your claim that everyone is always bashing Obama & never did Bush.Here is an example of the death count that the newspapers put out daily when Bush was president, but nothing since Obama became president.
As I think about it, maybe the reason nobody on Misc was criticizing Bush was that there was a constant bashing going on daily in the media. Since Obama has become president the only bashing you get is FNC, Rush & us far right gun/Bible loons on Misc.
Dewey

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Reply with quote  #158 
B10 - I've been following politics for some time and I understand all Presidents catch serious heat.  Surely you remember whenever I said there was never any Bush bashing, I was talking about inside here in our UCS forum.  To suggest bashing began here because the media failed is to suggest they failed from day one.  We didn't even allow media to get past inauguration day.  I bet we've blamed media ten times for every time we've blamed Bush inside this forum.  Doesn't matter, it's your right.  Rush spent an hour today talking about how the media would have done this or that if Bush was still President.  The last Administration won't soon be forgotten and we'll all continue to refer to it in one manner or another to make our case.  Besides, the Right has all the radio, the vast majority of the internet, and most of the cable TV audience.  How much media do you need?
bluedog

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Reply with quote  #159 
Quote:
(Reuters) - Michigan Governor Rick Snyder on Wednesday endorsed an expansion of health coverage for the poor under President Barack Obama's reform law, joining five other Republican governors who have agreed to widen the Medicaid program in their states


Quote:
Bluedog what is your recommendation for tea party politicians and repubs as to how to be more effective?


Sbmom, I am seeing the Republican party splintering.....It is becoming unrecognizable from my viewpoint....
ForeverInBlue

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Reply with quote  #160 
Republicans will be fine, all this rubbish is just hysterical wishful thinking by left. Disagreement and discussion leads to creativity, unlike the Stepford Wives progs, who jump in line behind their inept unimaginative dear leader.
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sbmom1812

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Reply with quote  #161 
Basically those governors are from purple states and they are playing politics.  Not good.  They have pushed limits in other areas, like right to work etc... you can only pick so many battles and the people could potentially kick you out. Especially when Obama is constantly campaigning in your yard and he owns the media.  As I said I dont like, but as I have said before a moderate repub is typically always better than a lib and you just keep working to move it further to the right, but if they dont compromise and get kicked out you go hard left, especially now.  All you have to do is look at cali and ny to see what happens with mainly democrt rule.  Michigan has had alot of that with unions etc... You cant change things over night, but they are making some steps in the right direction.  In politics you have to pick your battles.  Too many repubs now a days are all or nothing and it kills the conservative side.  Like people not voting for Romney cause he was a mormon to me makes no sense.  So as a christian you will allow someone to get in office that is ten times worse towards christian values than someone who basically has christian values, but you dont call him christian.  Unfortunately we have two parties and most of the time you are voting for the least of the evils but if you continue to work and push it will change.  Whether you believe it or not, those tea party house reps have made a big difference in washington.  Yes, not as much as we would like, but it wont change overnight and if the electorate continues to stay involved and get more people educated it will change.  Dems stick together no matter what.  Repubs dont and thats what kills them politically.  Just look at this forum.  Most of the libs are lockstep in what they say wher the repubs, IMHO, are more independent and vary in their views.  Overall that is good for ideas etc... but when it comes to poltics power is in numbers acting as one.
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Susan
sbmom1812

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Reply with quote  #162 
I think states becoming more conservative overall is a good indicator of things to come in fed system if people continue to stay active in the electorate.  The establishment repubs will learn politically that they need to continue to change or they will be gone.  It is happening.  That is one good thing I think obama is creating.
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Susan
ForeverInBlue

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Reply with quote  #163 
It's not as bad as the libs try to make it appear, is all I'm saying. Time will bear this out.
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Dewey

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Reply with quote  #164 
There are many calling for a third Party.  I think the GOP should split in two, establishment and Tea Party.
ForeverInBlue

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Reply with quote  #165 
Won't change Obamas failure as a president. This is that thread, right?
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ForeverInBlue

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Reply with quote  #166 
"America is one big pothole."

Outgoing Obama administration Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood

We might expect "America is one big sinkhole" from the Interior Secretary, "America is one big black hole" from the Treasury Secretary, and "America is one big butthole" from the head of DHS, which will end its use of see through scanners in airports after learning "transparency" was never anything more than a big campaign lie.

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masare

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Reply with quote  #167 
There is a civil war going on in the the Republican Party...hmmm civil? I think it's more like 2012 versus 1952!
ForeverInBlue

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Reply with quote  #168 
Quote:
Originally Posted by masare
There is a civil war going on in the the Republican Party...hmmm civil? I think it's more like 2012 versus 1952!


In your bed wetting dreams.

There is instead a veritable geyser of creative brainstorming taking place among Republicans on how to make America better, for all Americans, and how best to counter the liberal Socialiast agenda that aims to destroy the country, mentored by the same losers who thought rioting in Los Angeles and Detroit was a good idea. Fortunately every day that lacks progress under Obama reveals to more Americans what a sham, immoral ideology the liberals are propogating. Now raise your fist in the air, and fade back into history like the ugly era you represent.

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sbmom1812

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Reply with quote  #169 
Totally agree Fib.  Grassroots are taking hold and empowering people/America.
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Susan
masare

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Reply with quote  #170 
Yeah? Whatever...I hope 2012 wins the battle I am sick of all the whining!
keepinitreal

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Reply with quote  #171 
DFTT
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"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
masare

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Reply with quote  #172 
FMDIDGAD!
ForeverInBlue

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Reply with quote  #173 
Quote:
Originally Posted by masare
FMDIDGAD!


Masare invoking the American civil war.

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ForeverInBlue

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Reply with quote  #174 
Just a reminder, ICYMI - Obama has failed as President.
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keepinitreal

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Reply with quote  #175 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ForeverInBlue
Just a reminder, ICYMI - Obama has failed as President.


It's hilarious watching the people who voted for him feeling the pain of his administration when they thought only the "rich" would get soaked.  The whining from the obamaites is priceless and the rhetoric is hysterical

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"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
TheHammer

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Reply with quote  #176 
People, people, let's forget about Obama as we cannot do anything to get rid of him. we have to suffer another 4 years.
Now let us look foreward for the next 4 years, let's analyse the best candidates and see what they are doing. is it good or bad.
masare

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Reply with quote  #177 
WS8YOBYCS8YOO!
ForeverInBlue

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Reply with quote  #178 
Quote:
Originally Posted by masare
WS8YOBYCS8YOO!


A liberal.

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Dewey

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Reply with quote  #179 

The Case for Obama: Why He Is a Great President. Yes, Great.


pabar61

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Reply with quote  #180 
Dewey - do we really want to start that?  I'm sure we'll have no problem finding plenty of "opinions" that Obama is a terrible president.
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