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JoiseyGuy

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Reply with quote  #31 
Diet Coke - Love the hyperbole to demonstrate absolute dogmatic adherence to the bible. Some use that book to validate their bigotry and pick and choose chapter and verse as "the word of God".  I have never forgotten that "Upon this rock I shall build my church" has led through interpretation to three major religions, all of whom, of course, are absolutely correct in their dogmatic interpretation.  So it goes. 
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"Freethinkers are those who are willing to use their minds without prejudice and without fearing to understand things that clash with their own customs, privileges, or beliefs. This state of mind is not common, but it is essential for right thinking. Where it is absent discussion is apt to become worse than useless." Leo Tolstoy

"Do not try to teach pigs to sing. It will frustrate you and infuriate the pigs who will unite in anger against you, and you will never achieve singing your song". Dr. Petersen
spazsdad

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Reply with quote  #32 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DietCoke
Get over yourselves.

Interesting take. Why don't the 2% of the population that are gay "get over themselves"?
Why are they so militant in their desire to make everyone accept their lifestyle yet they are as much, if not more intolerant of others. Everyone is supposed to blindly buy in to their choice and treat it as a norm when they are constantly attacking those that do not think like them. Where is their tolerance. Do they not need to be because they area minority group? Does that give them carte blanche o attack anyone they choose.
You read about these supposed discrimination cases and they are nothing more than crying wolf. These people seek out places of business that they know do not condone their lifestyle just to make noise, attacking honest, hard working small business owners just because they do not think being gay is ok.
Get over yourselves. Exactly

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#SCOTUS
Dewey

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Reply with quote  #33 
I'm still waiting for some examples of "militant".  Like I said, if you walk in and say I'll take the cake you picture on page four, I expect a gay couple to have the same right to buy it.  This idea that a gay couple has to search out the appropriate baker is ridiculous.  Can't they just go somewhere else?  It's like saying,  "why don't you just move over to that seat on the bus?  It would be so easy."  This stuff is wrong and it needs to change.  Fortunately, this Country is making certain it will.  Regardless how long it takes, we eventually get most things right.


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President Obama kept Republicans out of the White House for 8 years and added two excellent justices to the Supreme Court.  Those two things alone make him one of our greatest Presidents of my lifetime.
ForeverInBlue

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Reply with quote  #34 
What specific language in the Indiana law allows discriminatuon against gays (or any other group for that matter?)

What are the specific differences between the Indiana law and Bill Clinton's RFRA from 1993?

How does Indiana RFRA differ from the RFRA passed in Illinois that Obama voted for?
keepinitreal

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Reply with quote  #35 
spazsdad, google militant gay agenda and you will see, unlike the queers on this forum, many of them are loud and proud of their movement.  They don't hide from their true selves.  

As one blog states boastfully on it's home page.  The writer boasts that they don't even need the straights.

"We're here, we're queer. And I swear to God we will f[ph]uck you up"

divinebrat:

nnary-eunice:

divinebrat:

what is this “gay straight alliance”. Whoever said i wanted to be aligned with the straights. i want to Win

Okay if you don’t want more supporters then that’s fine…

i dont need your support im going to Win



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"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
DietCoke

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Reply with quote  #36 
Quote:
Originally Posted by spazsdad
Interesting take. Why don't the 2% of the population that are gay "get over themselves"?


Why does the percentage matter?  What is your threshold?  Blacks were about 10% of the US population in 1960.  So 10% is OK, but 2% isn't?

Maybe they are tired of being seen as different, as undesirable, as freaks, as sinners.  Maybe they are tired of being bullied, harassed and possibly assaulted because they are LGBT.

SO WHAT if they are only 2% of the population?  I don't give a damn if they are 1% or 0.5%.  They deserve ALL of the same rights and the same treatment that you and I have.

Are you really telling me that if your son or daughter or one of their friends were gay that you would still say that someone could refuse service to them if they deemed it to be against their religious beliefs???

Everything minorities have fought for for 50 years is disappearing before our eyes.....  Thank you, Republicans.

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"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable," - John F. Kennedy
keepinitreal

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Reply with quote  #37 

I've never 'hated' gays, known too many of them, hey it's a softball forum as dietwatereddown coke reminded me. Gays everywhere, don't try and deny it, I've seen it, if you follow the game long enough, you have also.  I have 'known' no less than 100+ gays in the sport.  If you want to deny, you lie.  The militarism of the movement makes me less tolerant, than more tolerant of their lifestyle.  I came for the game, the gays I knew were not of the militant type, they wanted to play softball and they kept their love lives off the softball field.

Dewy and Dietwatereddown coke act like they want a fight over this issue.  Okay, let's go

Gay Agenda: Destroy All Opposition

 

Discussion of facts below, joisey will succumb and call it bias even though he is as biased as anyone on this forum.  Pot,kettle

EX:


As the battle over the gay marriage issue rages, we are beginning to see glimpses of what politicizing this issue does.

1- A Christian florist is currently facing thousands of dollars in fines for refusing to provide flowers for a gay wedding.

2- On the George Washington University campus a Catholic Chaplain is in the process of battling against the gay agenda who is pushing for him to be removed from the university for daring to say what he believes based on his religious beliefs to gays seeking his counseling, rather than telling them what they wanted to hear.

3- Those around Obama believe that “private beliefs should not be tolerated if they adversely affect homosexuals.”  In other words, agree with the gay agenda, or you will not be tolerated, and you will be singled out and forced to agree.  Others call for classroom safety through pushing the gay agenda.

4- In Colorado a law has been in place helping homosexual activists achieve their goal of forcing Christians to teach biblical condemnation of homosexuality only behind the closed doors of their sanctuaries.

5- Inn keepers were fined $30,000 and lost their business because they refused to host a gay wedding reception.

6- After writing an article critical of the gay agenda, an administrator for Toledo University was fired.

7- Meanwhile we have gay judges ruling on gay marriage cases, homosexual propagandists claiming that daring to disagree with them is “hate”, and a call for arresting preachers who teach homosexuality is a sin.

8- As for the bullying tactics of the gay agenda, a transgender student is suing a Christian university for expulsion, and a cop was punished for buying a Chic-Fil-A sandwich because of the restaurant owner’s stance on marriage.


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"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
ForeverInBlue

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Posts: 9,838
Reply with quote  #38 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DietCoke
Everything minorities have fought for for 50 years is disappearing before our eyes.....  Thank you, Republicans.


Interesting.

Care to be more specific on what "everything" refers to? What specifically has disappeared "before our eyes?"

Or are you just lashing out with uninformed hyperbole the way the liberal media wants you to?
JoiseyGuy

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Reply with quote  #39 
Real - No bias there.  Every movement in history which involved a minority group who felt that their "rights" were being violated or who felt that they were viewed as second class citizens has created a militant wing that will use legal, even physical means to achieve what they perceive as equality under the law. That is especially prevalent in democracies where "equal" is the only acceptable end according to the "downtrodden" and the governing philosophy of the nationstate.                                                                                          

 We are currently in a Gay and Lesbian process, just as Brown vs. Board of Education in 1954 launched an anti Jim Crow crusade and suggested movement that produced additional "civil rights" legislation supporting people of color. Conflict of that sort is inevitable in a society that is not tyranical or a Theocracy.  That anti Jim Crow  process has passed the "legal" stage and is now often in the streets with opposing perspectives at work.  Remember that only 70 years ago we had a Black Army and a White Army, and drinking fountains were marked "colored" and "white" especially in our Southland.  Process will result in an end eventually, whatever the institutions decide that is.  In the meantime, if nothing else, the fallout makes for sensationalist news for the media and a means to raise blood pressures among those who oppose the views and actions of the militants .  Historically the status quo doesn't remain the status quo for very long but is analyzed and sometimes found wanting during any cultural epoch.  

__________________
"Freethinkers are those who are willing to use their minds without prejudice and without fearing to understand things that clash with their own customs, privileges, or beliefs. This state of mind is not common, but it is essential for right thinking. Where it is absent discussion is apt to become worse than useless." Leo Tolstoy

"Do not try to teach pigs to sing. It will frustrate you and infuriate the pigs who will unite in anger against you, and you will never achieve singing your song". Dr. Petersen
Dewey

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Reply with quote  #40 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ForeverInBlue
What are the specific differences between the Indiana law and Bill Clinton's RFRA from 1993?


Take the lady who wanted to wear the scarf at Abercrombie and the lady who wanted to come in the bank with her face covered.  This is Clinton law.  Rule-makers, (Courts), are going to have to step in and decide these difficult cases.

Take the Saudi charter bus owner who won't allow women with uncovered heads to board the bus.  This is Indiana law.  This is out-right discrimination and no rule-makers should have to step in and decide these kind of cases.  We don't need individuals being on the outside looking in while we litigate for years.

PS: I will agree Indiana law will also address the first paragraph but it allows too much beyond that.

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President Obama kept Republicans out of the White House for 8 years and added two excellent justices to the Supreme Court.  Those two things alone make him one of our greatest Presidents of my lifetime.
ForeverInBlue

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Reply with quote  #41 
I didn't see anything about Ambercrombie or Saudi bus owners in either law, or in any serious discussion of either law.

Do you have any facts, or specific language in the laws that you oppose? Like people in the real world use. What specifically should Gov Pence look at in the Indiana law that needs changing?
JoiseyGuy

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Reply with quote  #42 
Diet Coke - I would disagree that advances by minorities made in the last 50 years are disappearing.  I would agree that Conservatives, especially right wing conservatives, would like to turn the clock back to a "better" time.  That is the nature of conservative thought by definition, just as liberal thought tends to embrace change in the status quo or at least examine the possibility. Therein lies the huge perspective difference between liberals and conservatives. Historically, societal change produces backlash as conservatives employ their perspectives, but that does not mean that some core changes won by minorities in society do not maintain their viability in today's society.  We live in a far different world today from the one I remember from the 1950's.
__________________
"Freethinkers are those who are willing to use their minds without prejudice and without fearing to understand things that clash with their own customs, privileges, or beliefs. This state of mind is not common, but it is essential for right thinking. Where it is absent discussion is apt to become worse than useless." Leo Tolstoy

"Do not try to teach pigs to sing. It will frustrate you and infuriate the pigs who will unite in anger against you, and you will never achieve singing your song". Dr. Petersen
ForeverInBlue

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Posts: 9,838
Reply with quote  #43 
So you can't cite what specifically in the law you're objecting to?



keepinitreal

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Reply with quote  #44 
I think in honor of this change of heart by the governor and to appease even more of the militants, we should all list our top players at each position that we ever knew that played the game of softball.  Use high school players from the past if need be to round out your team of all stars.

 Let's celebrate, who will be the first to name their all star team?  

Dietwatereddown coke, how bout you?  Let's celebrate like it's 1999.  We gonna do it, let's do it large.

__________________
"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
Dewey

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Posts: 24,423
Reply with quote  #45 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ForeverInBlue
So you can't cite what specifically in the law you're objecting to?


Please quit asking me questions.  You ignore all mine so please don't keep asking me questions.  Maybe you can go over to my thread and tell us whether you agree or disagree with the two examples Lost_1 submitted. 

__________________
President Obama kept Republicans out of the White House for 8 years and added two excellent justices to the Supreme Court.  Those two things alone make him one of our greatest Presidents of my lifetime.
Dewey

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Posts: 24,423
Reply with quote  #46 
Pretty hard to write a law that will force any person to do something they don't want to do.  That said, I'll agree there can be penalties in some instances but in these cases we're discussing, it's highly unlikely to ever lead to losing lawsuits.

Visit a photographer who doesn't want to do your wedding and he'll tell you he's not a very dependable guy and was two hours late to his last wedding.  He might tell you he gets sick often and has missed weddings altogether.  Believe me, you aren't going to hire this guy.  If you do, and when he's sick that day, there's no court in the world who can assume the guy was faking.  This guy is never going to work a gay wedding.

Stop in at the wrong baker and when she tells you her "gay cakes" come out kind of lopsided, you aren't going to hire her.  If you do, you can count on her being sick that day as well, leading to an unfinished cake thus ruining your day and there will be no way in the world you can convince a jury she deliberately failed you.  This lady's not about to make cakes for gay weddings anytime soon.

No, I think common sense will lead many to believe the "in your face militant theatrics" are likely coming from the other direction.  I can surmise a gay couple entered a bakery and the owner said "we don't serve your kind here".  I suspect there may have been witnesses.  I find it easy to suspect owners are more likely to make a direct in your face statement over these matters than to think somebody is going to hire a person who doesn't want to provide the service.  Doesn't that make sense?  Once the owners get "principled" in this manner, that's when the lawsuits appear.  This seems most logical to me since these events are clearly too easy to avoid.


Edit:  Moral of the story is I find it highly unlikely gay people are searching out businesses to sue.  Too easy to avoid a lawsuit if you are a business owner so when it happens, I think one need look no further than the owner.

__________________
President Obama kept Republicans out of the White House for 8 years and added two excellent justices to the Supreme Court.  Those two things alone make him one of our greatest Presidents of my lifetime.
keepinitreal

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Posts: 22,972
Reply with quote  #47 
"Please quit asking me questions".  so damn funny to read


I found a neat place for signs on the web.  Why would people place this sign in their front yard?  Please tell me.

I love my gay son Yard Sign

__________________
"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
ForeverInBlue

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Posts: 9,838
Reply with quote  #48 


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewey
Quote:
Originally Posted by ForeverInBlue
So you can't cite what specifically in the law you're objecting to?


Please quit asking me questions.  You ignore all mine so please don't keep asking me questions.  Maybe you can go over to my thread and tell us whether you agree or disagree with the two examples Lost_1 submitted. 


Dewey - I put questions in the board, they're for anyone and everyone. I can't dictate who responds to them.

But when you do respond, you should be able to support your response. Which you can't.

Or make your response "responsive" to the question asked. Which you didn't.

It's literally falling on the floor hilarious that *you* want someone to stop asking questions on this board.

Hahhahaha. Seriously! You can't this stuff up!
keepinitreal

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Posts: 22,972
Reply with quote  #49 
"Are you really telling me that if your son or daughter or one of their friends were gay that you would still say that someone could refuse service to them if they deemed it to be against their religious beliefs???"

YEP

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"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
woody

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Posts: 8,790
Reply with quote  #50 
Dang it, who controls this forum? Can't someone just make it kinder and gentler to Socialist, and ban all those that don't think along the enlightened path? Damn those evil Conservatives, they must be banished so that all 4 Leftist posters can be free to express themselves to the world without challenge.
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Anarcho Capitalism. Get some, and no you can't have any of my money to live off of you Socialist Democrat.

"IT'S GOOD TO BE DA KING"
Dewey

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Reply with quote  #51 
FIB - I couldn't resist. For somebody who won't answer a question, you sure ask a lot. I thought I would over emphasize it in my response. Glad you enjoyed it. Now would you like me to ask you a question? :-)
__________________
President Obama kept Republicans out of the White House for 8 years and added two excellent justices to the Supreme Court.  Those two things alone make him one of our greatest Presidents of my lifetime.
keepinitreal

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Posts: 22,972
Reply with quote  #52 
"For somebody who won't answer a question"

FIB has contributed more thorough information, discussion, links, articles and research on this forum in less than 4 years than you have in 11 years dewy.  You have become a caricature of yourself with your girlyness.

__________________
"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
woody

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Posts: 8,790
Reply with quote  #53 
Cringe, sniffle, rub eyes till Socialist red, appear aghast, repeat. It gets old.
__________________
Anarcho Capitalism. Get some, and no you can't have any of my money to live off of you Socialist Democrat.

"IT'S GOOD TO BE DA KING"
Dewey

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Posts: 24,423
Reply with quote  #54 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ForeverInBlue
Or make your response "responsive" to the question asked. 


FIB - How can I be more clear?  The Clinton law deals with issues like the two Lost_1 submitted.  Tough cases requiring a court review.  The Indian law deals with these too but they allow for discrimination cases to go forward.  In my Saudi example, a religious defense can be mounted.  Indiana is not including anti-discrimination language.  You saw where Georgia is passing the same law and when someone added an amendment that wouldn't allow the law to circumvent discrimination laws, the bill was tabled.  I'm amazed you can't see this distinction.  I've answered twice now and if you can't follow, I can't help you any more than I have.

__________________
President Obama kept Republicans out of the White House for 8 years and added two excellent justices to the Supreme Court.  Those two things alone make him one of our greatest Presidents of my lifetime.
ForeverInBlue

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Reply with quote  #55 
Well, that's vague.

Indiana's law allows cases to go forward, to where? A court review, like the Clinton cases? They all end up getting reviewed by courts. What language is in the Clinton law that's not in Indiana's? ( note this is the original question, answered by bizarre hypotheticals and something Lost_1 posted (apparently somewhere else but not in this thread))

The rest of your post is pretty much all over the map and of no use.

But just so everyone understands, this isn't really about Indiana's law. What's it's about is Hobby Lobby using Clinton's law to protect their religious beliefs against Obamacare. The gay lobby ( and Obama, and the Democrat media) lost at SCOTUS, so now they're going after states, catching Indiana completely unprepared by the onslaught of liberal media 'disinformation,' as Pence put it. They will continue to misrepresent these laws to pressure more states to review them, eventually going after US Congress to change Clinton's Law so they can turn around and ultimately go after Hobby Lobby again.

Big picture - Every state with a religious freedom law will be under attack. Religious freedom (and the First Amendment) are the penultimate targets. The Constitution and the Bill of Rights itself is the ultimate target.

keepinitreal

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Reply with quote  #56 
"a means to raise blood pressures among those who oppose the views and actions of the militants "

Sounds like joisey, constantly on my ass.

"
 Historically the status quo doesn't remain the status quo for very long but is analyzed and sometimes found wanting during any cultural epoch."

By whom?


__________________
"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
Dewey

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Posts: 24,423
Reply with quote  #57 
FIB - Read what happened to the Georgia bill and you'll have a full understanding what's wrong with the Indiana bill.  It's funny, businesses across the Country come out against the law and it's a "media" thing.  Incredible.
__________________
President Obama kept Republicans out of the White House for 8 years and added two excellent justices to the Supreme Court.  Those two things alone make him one of our greatest Presidents of my lifetime.
keepinitreal

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Posts: 22,972
Reply with quote  #58 
How do you know the catholic cake bakers are making cakes for Catholic divorcees? It's really understandable why libtards flock to this type of thread. It is but folly for them to speak on the Iranian nuke deals. Much easier to talk about cakes and gay erectile dysfunction. I told you months ago what I would do if I felt compelled to bake that cake, if it was demanded.

P.s. remarrying catholics can get a pardon from the church to remarry. You know, kind of how the baby killers get special permission to kill a fetus.

__________________
"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
woody

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Posts: 8,790
Reply with quote  #59 
Where can Liberals sign up to attend a late term abortion hands on the babies seminar? Do they need to bring their own surgical tools, or will they be provided by Planned Parenthood at taxpayer expense? Hurry, spots are filling up fast, and you don't want to miss being the first person on your block to proudly proclaim that you severed the spine of an infant, sucked their brain out with a shop vac, then dismembered the body and burned it for the cause of green energy..
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Anarcho Capitalism. Get some, and no you can't have any of my money to live off of you Socialist Democrat.

"IT'S GOOD TO BE DA KING"
ForeverInBlue

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Reply with quote  #60 
Yesterday NPR covered Indiana Gov Pence's press conference, I'm traveling and was stuck in DC traffic and listened to the whole thing, which brought about the questions I posted yesterday - I simply haven't had the time to keep up with all the news and was hoping to get some clear answers. Instead there were the usual goose-chases down rabbit-holes so common from the left on here, none of which actually explained the issues.

With some time free this morning I was able to catch up on some reading, and came across the following, the most dispassionate and sober analysis yet on the Indiana law, how it came about, and what the real issues are.

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/416160/indiana-protecting-discrimination-josh-blackman
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