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Dewey

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Reply with quote  #1 
EarlyGrayce - Fair enough, I'll move the subject over here.


The Indiana law, without the discrimination protections for sexual orientation, will be the next wedge issue that GOP candidates will have to learn to answer.  They may want to use this video to learn how not to dance around the question

Call this law whatever you wish but please don't call it a vote gainer.  I don't know how that would be possible.

A battle for the GOP's future.
pabar61

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Reply with quote  #2 
Rank order of issues that voters care about:

1. The economy
2. Jobs
3. Government takeover of health care
4. Immigration
5. A nuclear Iran
.
.
.
About 100 - Cakes for gay weddings
woody

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Reply with quote  #3 
Maybe the majority of Indiana voters could give a crap about Gays, Gay weddings, or Fricking Gay wedding cakes. Has anyone considered that the only people that are outraged are Gays, and Democrat Elitist grasping for anything to inspire their base after getting trounced, getting their ass kicked in historic fashion in the last elections?

#nobodycaresaboutyourgayassanymore
#wearejusttryingtogetbynotbi



__________________
You Liberals crying for open borders for the most part, don't live on the border. You are therefore insulated from illegal immigration. You are immune from the local costs involved, both economic, and in lives lost. So unless you live down here, and bear the burden, STFU about "immigration reform". You know nothing, and are better suited to eating bandwidth and scones at a Starbucks than telling me what I should feel. Arrogant Pissants.

"IT'S GOOD TO BE DA KING"
Dewey

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Reply with quote  #4 
pabar - Let's just say the GOP is reaching out trying to find more votes.  I think it's safe to say they just lost some.


woody - Wait until the lone bowling alley in a city says "no gays".  Or only movie theater.
woody

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Reply with quote  #5 
Bill Smith Dewey, they probably gained some.
__________________
You Liberals crying for open borders for the most part, don't live on the border. You are therefore insulated from illegal immigration. You are immune from the local costs involved, both economic, and in lives lost. So unless you live down here, and bear the burden, STFU about "immigration reform". You know nothing, and are better suited to eating bandwidth and scones at a Starbucks than telling me what I should feel. Arrogant Pissants.

"IT'S GOOD TO BE DA KING"
woody

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Reply with quote  #6 
Not everybody is on the all gay socialist bandwagon with you.
__________________
You Liberals crying for open borders for the most part, don't live on the border. You are therefore insulated from illegal immigration. You are immune from the local costs involved, both economic, and in lives lost. So unless you live down here, and bear the burden, STFU about "immigration reform". You know nothing, and are better suited to eating bandwidth and scones at a Starbucks than telling me what I should feel. Arrogant Pissants.

"IT'S GOOD TO BE DA KING"
Dewey

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Reply with quote  #7 
Quote:
Originally Posted by woody
Not everybody is on the all gay socialist bandwagon with you.


I agree, not everyone cares about equal rights for gays.  As you know, in this Country, some of these issues take awhile.
woody

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Reply with quote  #8 
Yes, like that Socialist, Communist agenda you continue to spew forth from the depth of your elitist bowels comrade.
__________________
You Liberals crying for open borders for the most part, don't live on the border. You are therefore insulated from illegal immigration. You are immune from the local costs involved, both economic, and in lives lost. So unless you live down here, and bear the burden, STFU about "immigration reform". You know nothing, and are better suited to eating bandwidth and scones at a Starbucks than telling me what I should feel. Arrogant Pissants.

"IT'S GOOD TO BE DA KING"
pabar61

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Posts: 8,019
Reply with quote  #9 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewey
pabar - Let's just say the GOP is reaching out trying to find more votes.  I think it's safe to say they just lost some.


woody - Wait until the lone bowling alley in a city says "no gays".  Or only movie theater.


Both parties are trying to find more votes.  Conservatives hope that a return to being a Constitutional Republic will resonate with people who love this country.  Democrats will just make a bunch of illegals legal and - poof - more votes.
Dewey

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Reply with quote  #10 
I think it was EG who said he hoped the GOP wouldn't shoot itself in the foot over some social issue.  I think it just happened.
pabar61

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Reply with quote  #11 
I know you're hoping for that but it's a year and a half before the election.  You shot your wad way too early.
woody

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Reply with quote  #12 
Well, did the bath houses that Obama frequented in Chicago, or the Bath houses in San Francisco openly accept heterosexuals into their establishments? I call foul, and general BS. You want a gay wedding cake? Go find a gay baker, or a straight one that has no religious objections. I'm sure there are plenty that will accommodate you. This is a non issue. Keep trying to find an issue that everyday people give a crap about. Maybe jobs, illegal immigration, taxes?
__________________
You Liberals crying for open borders for the most part, don't live on the border. You are therefore insulated from illegal immigration. You are immune from the local costs involved, both economic, and in lives lost. So unless you live down here, and bear the burden, STFU about "immigration reform". You know nothing, and are better suited to eating bandwidth and scones at a Starbucks than telling me what I should feel. Arrogant Pissants.

"IT'S GOOD TO BE DA KING"
keepinitreal

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Reply with quote  #13 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pabar61
I know you're hoping for that but it's a year and a half before the election.  You shot your wad way too early.

Pabar,
That's what I would have said but they will grasp at anything and shoot their wad. I am so glad the gay cake discussion was moved over here away from real issues.

Oldscout once said dewy will tear it up if its a good social issue thread he can opine on. Mostly girly stuff.

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"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
mikec

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Reply with quote  #14 
The fact is that there is a federal law in place protecting gays, and religion. This particular law is a state law.

I fail to see why this is a POTUS election issue.
Dewey

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Reply with quote  #15 
mikec - When pabar asked me if there was a Federal law covering sexual orientation discrimination, I couldn't find it.  Only workplace laws.  In any event, anytime the GOP angers potential voters, it's an election thing.
pabar61

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Reply with quote  #16 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewey
mikec - When pabar asked me if there was a Federal law covering sexual orientation discrimination, I couldn't find it.  Only workplace laws.  In any event, anytime the GOP angers potential voters, it's an election thing.


Is it the same when liberals anger voters?  Could that explain how Obama lost control of both the Senate and the House?
keepinitreal

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Reply with quote  #17 
If angering voters is an election thing, curious George has sent many independents back to the opposite side as we saw in November 2014. Dewy trying to find that social issue 'thing' that will send the tingle up his leg. This ain't it dewy.
__________________
"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
woody

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Posts: 7,550
Reply with quote  #18 
Good point. Liberals keep demanding that everyone conform to their "enlightened" way of thought, as if their thought process is the only legitimate one to be held in serious consideration.
__________________
You Liberals crying for open borders for the most part, don't live on the border. You are therefore insulated from illegal immigration. You are immune from the local costs involved, both economic, and in lives lost. So unless you live down here, and bear the burden, STFU about "immigration reform". You know nothing, and are better suited to eating bandwidth and scones at a Starbucks than telling me what I should feel. Arrogant Pissants.

"IT'S GOOD TO BE DA KING"
woody

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Posts: 7,550
Reply with quote  #19 
If you object to the Liberal thought process, you are a bigoted, racist, or worse.
__________________
You Liberals crying for open borders for the most part, don't live on the border. You are therefore insulated from illegal immigration. You are immune from the local costs involved, both economic, and in lives lost. So unless you live down here, and bear the burden, STFU about "immigration reform". You know nothing, and are better suited to eating bandwidth and scones at a Starbucks than telling me what I should feel. Arrogant Pissants.

"IT'S GOOD TO BE DA KING"
woody

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Posts: 7,550
Reply with quote  #20 
The science is in, and there is no denying the Liberal thought process. 
__________________
You Liberals crying for open borders for the most part, don't live on the border. You are therefore insulated from illegal immigration. You are immune from the local costs involved, both economic, and in lives lost. So unless you live down here, and bear the burden, STFU about "immigration reform". You know nothing, and are better suited to eating bandwidth and scones at a Starbucks than telling me what I should feel. Arrogant Pissants.

"IT'S GOOD TO BE DA KING"
Dewey

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Posts: 24,391
Reply with quote  #21 
pabar - I'm sure the Democrats can anger voters at times.  But the Blue Wall has held up for six consecutive elections and it would take a huge misstep to turn these red, imo.  As for 2014, the Blue Wall still held strong and we lost in red States.  It wasn't an Obama thing from my perspective.
woody

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Posts: 7,550
Reply with quote  #22 
Conform, or be cast out.
__________________
You Liberals crying for open borders for the most part, don't live on the border. You are therefore insulated from illegal immigration. You are immune from the local costs involved, both economic, and in lives lost. So unless you live down here, and bear the burden, STFU about "immigration reform". You know nothing, and are better suited to eating bandwidth and scones at a Starbucks than telling me what I should feel. Arrogant Pissants.

"IT'S GOOD TO BE DA KING"
pabar61

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Posts: 8,019
Reply with quote  #23 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewey
pabar - I'm sure the Democrats can anger voters at times.  But the Blue Wall has held up for six consecutive elections and it would take a huge misstep to turn these red, imo.  As for 2014, the Blue Wall still held strong and we lost in red States.  It wasn't an Obama thing from my perspective.


Despite the fact that he said it was?
pabar61

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Posts: 8,019
Reply with quote  #24 
Here is Gabriel Malor, a gay conservative who supports gay marriage:

This big gay freak-out is purely notional. No RFRA has ever been used successfully to defend anti-gay discrimination, not in twenty years of RFRAs nationwide. Why Is Everyone So Mad about Indiana’s RFRA, Then? The fear is that it could be used to deny service to gay people in places of public accommodation like businesses and restaurants. But, as discussed above, no RFRA has ever been used that way before. Also, Indiana does not have a public accommodation law that protects against anti-gay discrimination, meaning there’s no state law in Indiana preventing anti-gay discrimination in businesses even before the state RFRA was enacted. Notably, despite the lack of such a law, nobody can point to any Indiana businesses that were discriminating against gays...It is entirely consistent to favor broad religious freedom protections and also favor gay rights. Many gays are religious, and so themselves benefit from religious freedom protections like RFRA. But even where gay Americans and religious Americans find themselves in conflict, there is ample room in communities to peaceably coexist. That’s the point of a RFRA. No side gets an automatic-victory card. The interests of all sides gets weighed.
keepinitreal

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Posts: 19,054
Reply with quote  #25 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewey
pabar - I'm sure the Democrats can anger voters at times.  But the Blue Wall has held up for six consecutive elections and it would take a huge misstep to turn these red, imo.  As for 2014, the Blue Wall still held strong and we lost in red States.  It wasn't an Obama thing from my perspective.


Nice to just sweep the Mary landrieu carcass away like that. She definitely lost because of Obama. Dewys revisionist, write the history you want, history.

__________________
"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
Dewey

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Posts: 24,391
Reply with quote  #26 
Gov. Pence to fix law.

Indy Star editorial
.

Fortunately, most Americans do not favor individuals or private businesses being allowed a right to discriminate.  I can almost hear the GOP candidates breathe a sigh of relief.   Then again, what do they say when asked if they like the idea the law is being fixed.
JoiseyGuy

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Reply with quote  #27 
Woody - "Conform or be cast out" !!  Is that not the mantra of every institution, some more solidly embedded in dogma than others?  ISIS kills Christians because they will not become Muslim.  During the Inquisition, The Commonwealth of Christendom burned at the stake homosexuals, and any Jews who would not conform to Christian dogma.  Instances abound throughout history.  Being a Republican conservative or a Democrat liberal (labels to be lived up to for some) is far from that in terms of human seriousness, but the mantra certainly remains for some - "You're either with us or against us" and don't you deviate one bit from core beliefs.  Too generally absolute for me.  By the way,extremists scare the hell out of me, whether skewed right or left.  In many cases I see them as well beyond rational thought, but they are conforming as so many lemmings conform, through emotional investment. Scary frames of reference.  
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"Freethinkers are those who are willing to use their minds without prejudice and without fearing to understand things that clash with their own customs, privileges, or beliefs. This state of mind is not common, but it is essential for right thinking. Where it is absent discussion is apt to become worse than useless." Leo Tolstoy

"Do not try to teach pigs to sing. It will frustrate you and infuriate the pigs who will unite in anger against you, and you will never achieve singing your song". Dr. Petersen
DietCoke

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Reply with quote  #28 
How to Kill a Discriminatory 'Religious Liberty' Bill
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“The hand of help has no color. The face of caring has no shape. The language of love has no accent.” - Unattributed
Dewey

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Reply with quote  #29 
DC - I read this earlier and, as this excerpt shows, the intention of these laws are pretty clear.

As in Indiana, proponents of Georgia’s bill have tried to argue that it has nothing to do with discrimination. Rep. Mike Jacobs, an LGBT-friendly Republican, decided to test this theory by introducing an amendment that would not allow claims of religious liberty to be used to circumvent state and local nondiscrimination protections. Supporters of the bill, like Rep. Barry Fleming (R), countered that the amendment “will gut the bill.”



I give some of our UCS members grief for not clearly sharing their positions but every now and then they come through.  Some of our members said outright that businesses should be allowed to serve or deny any customers they wish.  When it comes to our GOP leaders, too many try and reach this same goal of refusing service, if one desires to do so, by disguising it within these various laws.  I don't know if they fooled the Governor of Indiana or if he was in on it, but it would be better if those who believe businesses should have a right to deny service simply say it loud and straight-forward and let the voters respond accordingly.  Enough of these vague laws already.
DietCoke

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Posts: 1,990
Reply with quote  #30 
An extreme "example" (yes, I know it's over the top, but it makes a point) - from Daily Kos -

I am a Christian business owner in Indiana

by stophurtingamerica

Not really. But If I were, this is the sign I would put in my door.

"Dear Valued Patrons.  

Due to my sincerely held religious beliefs, and in light of the RFRA, recently signed by our Dear Leader Pence, I will no longer doing business with the following persons; nor permitting them in my establishment:

1.  Divorcees.  Matthew 19:9: “And I say to you: whoever divorces his wife, except for unchastity, and marries another, commits adultery.”

2.  Anyone who has ever read their horoscope or called a psychic hotline.  Leviticus 20:6: "As for the person who turns to mediums and to spiritists, to play the harlot after them, I will also set My face against that person and will cut him off from among his people."

3.  Anyone with a tattoo.   Leviticus 19:28 "You shall not make any cuts in your body for the dead nor make any tattoo marks on yourselves: I am the Lord."

4.  Anyone born illegitimately.  Also, anyone who, back to ten generations, is descended from someone born illegitimately.  If you can not PROVE, using appropriate church sources, that ten generations of your family were born in wedlock, I will have to err on the side of caution and not serve you. Deuteronomy 23:2 "No one of illegitimate birth shall enter the assembly of the LORD; none of his descendants, even to the tenth generation, shall enter the assembly of the LORD.

5.  Anyone who makes a practice of praying aloud, or in public.  Matthew 6:5-6  "When you pray, you are not to be like the hypocrites; for they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and on the street corners so that they may be seen by men. Truly I say to you, they have their reward in full. But you, when you pray, go into your inner room, close your door and pray to your Father who is in secret, and your Father who sees what is done in secret will reward you."

6.  Any woman with braided hair or gold jewelry.  Just to be on the safe side, NO jewelry at all.  1 Timothy 2:9 "Likewise, I want women to adorn themselves with proper clothing, modestly and discreetly, not with braided hair and gold or pearls or costly garments."

7.  Any man who has ever, by accident or not, had his genitals damaged.  (Current interpretation of this scripture is under debate, so just to be safe, if you've had a vesectomy, or testicular cancer, I can't serve you.  I apologize for the inconvenience but I am worried for my soul.)  Deuteronomy 23:1 "A man whose testicles are crushed or whose penis is cut off may never join the assembly of the Lord."

8.  Please don't bring your kids in if they have a bowl cut.  Leviticus 19:27 reads "You shall not round off the side-growth of your heads nor harm the edges of your beard."

For those of you complaining that some of these scriptures are from the Old Testament, and that Jesus came to redeem us from these laws, I refer you to Matthew 5:17-19, where Our Savior himself says:  "Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill. 18"For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished. 19"Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven"

Again, I am sorry for the inconvenience.  It's nothing personal, "love the sinner but hate the sin," and all, but I simply can't serve anyone who would blatantly disregard God's sacred law in such a fashion.  

Of course this would never happen.  People don't not serve gays because they find it against God's Law.  They do it, by and large, because "the gays are icky."  Jesus had dinner with prostitutes and tax collectors.  Get over yourselves.

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“The hand of help has no color. The face of caring has no shape. The language of love has no accent.” - Unattributed
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