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outofzone

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Reply with quote  #31 
Quite frankly all it would take is 2 maybe 3 calls and I think he'd be forced to pull her. That would send a pretty clear message don't ya think? He'd come unhinged but he'd adjust & move on.

She pitched this past weekend and looked EXACTLY  the same so..the status quo remains. With all the blah blah from Umpires how they call the game by the rules and, we take our job seriously, we should be beyond reproach by coaches during the game, don't dare argue balls/strike calls...it's the same 'ole diarrhea of the mouth out of Umpires and I direct this at EVERY UMP who's ever called a Florida game with Barnhill on the mound. If you can't make the most obvious AND easiest call in NCAA Collegiate Softball while working a Florida game, with KB on the mound, you're a fraud & a coward who is hurting the game.

It's not hating either so please don't some poster start in on that. Fact is, when Barnhill pitches, any success Florida reaps is tainted. So until just ONE Ump has the will to make the call, Florida enjoys an advantage not allocated to any other College team they play. 

I have a kid pitching D1 now and, if she ever plays against KB, like many poster's kids on this site currently do, is it not equitable she be treated the same? 

I like Florida, Barnhill & Walton but, it's becoming increasing more difficult to respect what amounts to "legal cheating". 
outofzone

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Reply with quote  #32 
The above rant aside. Does anybody know if ANY opposing pitcher has ever been called for an IP while playing Florida with KB on the mound? 


HenryLouisAaron

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Reply with quote  #33 
<< I direct this at EVERY UMP who's ever called a Florida game with Barnhill on the mound. If you can't make the most obvious AND easiest call in NCAA Collegiate Softball while working a Florida game, with KB on the mound, you're a fraud & a coward who is hurting the game. >> (outofzone)

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Will you please stop beating around the bush and tell us how you really feel.

; )

I am with you all the way, outofzone. 
texassmallball

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Reply with quote  #34 
The only violation I saw on pitchers was related to time. I couldn't tell if the pitcher didn't pause for 2 seconds or they took too long.

Is there a new rule about time between pitches?
Fresh

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Reply with quote  #35 
I saw a pitcher called for stepping back off the plate and one for gym step last weekend. Both were pretty obvious. Allowing the extra separation of feet gives the pitcher a longer base and subsequently, more momentum. The leap is not that easy to see in all circumstances and if it were a big deal, it would be called. It really doesn't add to the momentum and many pitchers actually lose velocity by getting air. It's a lazy habit.
It's like giving vicinity at 2nd base, to protect the player coming across the bag on a DP. Does it drive you crazy when a player doesn't possess the ball exactly the second they cross the bag? Rules are meant to be interpreted in a manner that doesn't reduce the game to a series of pointless interruptions.

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The previous comment is an opinion. It came as the result of a lifetime of keen observation and spectacular failures. I did conclude this; hopefully, we learn as much from failure as we do from our accomplishments.
HeavyDuty

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Reply with quote  #36 
We saw 3 balls called this wknd at Gardner-Webb for time between pitches, waiting for the armband codes to come in from the dugout, also saw 2 out of box violations, but I have a half dozen pictures of ones not called....Was watching the UL/UF game coming home when KB got a couple IPs called, as well as the other 37 that weren't called....My wife found an ESPN analyst video breaking down KB's style for "young pitchers out there", and how wonderful it is that she is able to "stop everything with her drag foot in place, and focus all of her power and momentum from that spot 3 to 4 feet closer to the hitter".....hello, McFly?? [crazy]
HeavyDuty

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Reply with quote  #37 
Quote:
Originally Posted by outofzone
...I direct this at EVERY UMP who's ever called a Florida game with Barnhill on the mound. If you can't make the most obvious AND easiest call in NCAA Collegiate Softball while working a Florida game, with KB on the mound, you're a fraud & a coward who is hurting the game.... it's becoming increasing more difficult to respect what amounts to "legal cheating". 


Couldn't agree more, and really nothing else needs to be said beyond this.

dilly, dilly
TheNarrator

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Reply with quote  #38 
Quote:
Originally Posted by HeavyDuty
My wife found an ESPN analyst video breaking down KB's style for "young pitchers out there", and how wonderful it is that she is able to "stop everything with her drag foot in place, and focus all of her power and momentum from that spot 3 to 4 feet closer to the hitter".....hello, McFly?? [crazy]


But she doesn't replant..

Would love to see that if you can find in and post it.
HeavyDuty

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Reply with quote  #39 
The 2018-2019 rule:

10.4.5 Leaping is not allowed. The pitcher may not become airborne on the
initial drive from the pitcher’s plate. The pivot foot must slide/drag on the ground.

10.4.6 The pitcher is not allowed to hop or DRAG to a replant (crowhop), gain a
second starting point and push off her pivot foot. Once having lost contact
with the pitcher’s plate, the pivot foot may trail on the ground but may not
bear weight again until the pitch is released.

"1 o'clock"-Replant of sole of pivot foot on ball of the foot, bearing weight
Five Things to Watch in Super Regionals
"12 o'clock" Full weight bearing transfer to full sole through the heel of pivot foot
Alligator Awards: Who was Florida’s best female athlete of ...
"11 o'clock" Weight transfer off of pivot foot 2 to 3 feet forward of the pitcher's plate
UF softball ready to kick off SEC Tournament against Ole ...
Clear example of replant.


"12 o'clock" Legal K position
Gator softball dispatches Washington, sets up national ...
"12 o'clock" - Legal K position
Florida Gators softball rolls to 20-0 this year
Legal
Lowary, Parker pitch Oklahoma to Game 1 victory ...
Legal
Oklahoma Softball NCAA Regionals - Game 1 | Gallery ...
Illegal (Two-time Conference Pitcher of the Year)
SIUE vs. Tennessee Tech at the OVC Tournament 5/7/15 - SIUE
Illegal
SIUE Softball vs. Jacksonville State (4/4/15) - SIUE

NCAA softball is either going to play by the rules it has established equally, or it is not.

"legal cheating", as outofzone called it, should not be allowed, and even worse rewarded, as it currently is.

Apologize for the rant, but for the 99.8% of "young pitchers out there" who are working so hard trying to learn proper, LEGAL mechanics, I believe you all deserve better than this. 

Out.
TheNarrator

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Reply with quote  #40 
My post was in jest - she is certainly illegal
Kurosawa

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Reply with quote  #41 
The NCAA is in bed with ESPN/SEC. We'll see if the new slapping rule, or the new IP clarification defining a replant as a crowhop, actually gets called in the SEC or WCWS. I doubt either will, unless egregiously obvious. ESPN made it perfectly clear they don't want "ticky-tack" calls mucking up their coverage.
HeavyDuty

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Reply with quote  #42 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheNarrator
My post was in jest - she is certainly illegal


Roger that....where's that dang sarcasm font when you need it!!
HenryLouisAaron

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Reply with quote  #43 
HeavyDuty - Thanks for those excellent pictures in your post (#39). 
The evidence is so crystal clear - that it is almost beyond belief that any pitcher gets away with abusing the rules.
The umpires obviously have been instructed to not call it - or it would be called on EVERY pitch KB throws.

One more thing. Look where the Cougar pitcher's (in your bottom two pictures) front foot is landing.
The front of her lead foot is outside the circle - just like Barnhill.
Why... because they are pitching from a position that is closer to home plate - than all the legal pitchers.
The illegal pitchers get an UNFAIR ADVANTAGE that is making a mockery of the game.

If the NCAA really wants to allow some tiny percent of the pitchers - to use this illegal technique... 
then make them start on a pitcher's plate that is at least one foot further back than the one all the legal pitchers use.

Can't you just see this...
The ground crew has to come out between innings and move the plate back every time KB takes the circle.
HenryLouisAaron

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Reply with quote  #44 
<< The NCAA is in bed with ESPN/SEC. We'll see if the new slapping rule, or the new IP clarification defining a replant as a crowhop, actually gets called in the SEC or WCWS. I doubt either will, unless egregiously obvious. ESPN made it perfectly clear they don't want "ticky-tack" calls mucking up their coverage. >> (Kurosawa)

If they simply called the rules as they should be called during the season - all the ILLEGAL pitchers would become LEGAL almost over night.
There would be no "ticky-tack" illegal pitch calls in the post season...
because all the cheaters would already have been exposed -
and properly re-trained to pitch LEGALLY. 

They could put a stop to this - so easily.

Sure - it would hurt the very small number of pitchers who are currently getting away with cheating.
BUT IT SHOULD HURT THEM. They need to be stopped. They need to be FORCED to pitch the same way almost all the other pitchers do.
aojr03

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Reply with quote  #45 
And we just can't let the Klingons join forces with the Romulans.
NadiaM

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Reply with quote  #46 
How fast does that kid in the Cougar uniform throw?  Just curious....
Kurosawa

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Reply with quote  #47 
Quote:
Originally Posted by HenryLouisAaron
<< The NCAA is in bed with ESPN/SEC. We'll see if the new slapping rule, or the new IP clarification defining a replant as a crowhop, actually gets called in the SEC or WCWS. I doubt either will, unless egregiously obvious. ESPN made it perfectly clear they don't want "ticky-tack" calls mucking up their coverage. >> (Kurosawa)

If they simply called the rules as they should be called during the season - all the ILLEGAL pitchers would become LEGAL almost over night.
There would be no "ticky-tack" illegal pitch calls in the post season...
because all the cheaters would already have been exposed -
and properly re-trained to pitch LEGALLY. 

They could put a stop to this - so easily.

Sure - it would hurt the very small number of pitchers who are currently getting away with cheating.
BUT IT SHOULD HURT THEM. They need to be stopped. They need to be FORCED to pitch the same way almost all the other pitchers do.


When the NCAA did call illegal pitches in the WCWS, the conferences followed suit, EXCEPT for the SEC. ESPN is now in bed with the SEC (50% owner of the SEC Network) - the NCAA has sold out to ESPN/SEC, which are now the real rulemakers. Money talks, in other words.

The NCAA has strengthened their crowhop rule, defining a crowhop as a replant (rather as a replant/push-off). Will it be called at the WCWS? I doubt it.

eyenoall

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Reply with quote  #48 
Well, ya'll want the sport to progress.  Takes money.  ESECPN Onward!!!!![biggrin]
midwestfp

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Reply with quote  #49 
Curious why opposing coaches never complain about KB?  I have seen enough games on t.v. and in person to know that coaches are not shy about complaining to umpires. Coaches argue balls and strikes, plays at the plate, interference, obstruction, fair or foul, and batters making contact out of the box.  Everything appears to be fair game for criticism except the illegal pitch.  I have seen a number of FL games on t.v., and opposing coaches never argue about it.  Maybe I just haven't seen enough of their games?  Quite frankly I have seen a lot of criticism directed at umpires (rightly so), but I think opposing coaches have to receive some heat too.  If it is that obvious, speak up and fight for your team.  Let the umpire know.  Indicate in the post game interview that you intend to send video of the infractions to the league office.    
outofzone

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Reply with quote  #50 
Quote:
Originally Posted by midwestfp
Curious why opposing coaches never complain about KB?  I have seen enough games on t.v. and in person to know that coaches are not shy about complaining to umpires. Coaches argue balls and strikes, plays at the plate, interference, obstruction, fair or foul, and batters making contact out of the box.  Everything appears to be fair game for criticism except the illegal pitch.  I have seen a number of FL games on t.v., and opposing coaches never argue about it.  Maybe I just haven't seen enough of their games?  Quite frankly I have seen a lot of criticism directed at umpires (rightly so), but I think opposing coaches have to receive some heat too.  If it is that obvious, speak up and fight for your team.  Let the umpire know.  Indicate in the post game interview that you intend to send video of the infractions to the league office.    


Great post and a questions I've always wondered about myself. I can see where the Mid Major Coaches that get the oppt to play SEC schools wouldn't want to 'rock the boat' but, it is beyond perplexing why competing SEC coaches don't jump up/down and crap nickels when they play Florida & Auburn. 


Kurosawa

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Reply with quote  #51 
Generally, it has been coaches who've had illegal pitch calls made against them who "jump up/down and crap nickels". You can't assume that opposing coaches don't politely bring up illegal pitches with the officials when facing Barnhill - vehemently protesting a non-call, however, is a good way to get tossed. Lisa Fernandez was protesting a non-call, blocking the plate...
nohitter13

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Reply with quote  #52 
This has been an excellent thread.  What I want to know, especially from current/prior coaches, is why are these "illegal" pitchers taught "illegal" mechanics??? Does it start right out of the get-go at 5 years old and just continues through their careers up to, and including, college level playing?  Everyone knows you can't get "air" with your drag foot, so why would any pitching coach let that happen in his/her coaching?  Or, do these pitchers let their mechanics just "evolve" over time and, with everyone else involved, just see what they can get away with vis-a-vis the umps?

For the last couple of years I've tried really hard to scope in on this while watching tons of games on TV. Despite some of the comments on here, I see quite a few "infractions" of at least pitchers getting air and not getting called on it. Is it coaching or just shrewdly, at some point in pitching careers, trying to get that extra advantage against your opponents? I'm not sure anyone has addressed this conundrum (for me at least...), and thanks for any replies.
Fresh

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Reply with quote  #53 
Since there is little proof that getting air actually gives the pitcher an advantage, the NCAA, through their umpires, are loath to slow the game down with calling it, which is usually followed by lengthy arguments over ground conditions and such. Several years ago when a stricter interpretation was instituted, there was an outcry from the fans about slowing down the game and making it unwatchable. The air rule was originally put in to make it easier to call crowhopping, which does give an advantage to the pitcher. Being allowed to replant and set a new point of impetus gets the pitcher closer to the hitter at release. The current rule, which eliminates moving the runners on the IP, will probably lead to more calls, but not a significant number. 
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The previous comment is an opinion. It came as the result of a lifetime of keen observation and spectacular failures. I did conclude this; hopefully, we learn as much from failure as we do from our accomplishments.
3leftturns

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Reply with quote  #54 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurosawa
Generally, it has been coaches who've had illegal pitch calls made against them who "jump up/down and crap nickels". You can't assume that opposing coaches don't politely bring up illegal pitches with the officials when facing Barnhill - vehemently protesting a non-call, however, is a good way to get tossed. Lisa Fernandez was protesting a non-call, blocking the plate...
Well, I do think coaches on these TV games DO need to get tossed more often. That would get the problem addressed
3leftturns

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Reply with quote  #55 
I mean, Fernandez gets loudly and visibly tossed and the catcher rule is changed.

midwestfp

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Reply with quote  #56 
I saw the "new rule" regarding batter in the box come into play in a crucial situation at the Kajikawa.  Tennessee took a 7-6 lead over San Jose State to the bottom of the 7th.  With two outs, SJS loaded the bases and a hard hitting slapper came to the plate.  Second pitch of the at bat she hit a screamer foul.  Karen Weekly came out of the dugout to adamantly protest that the batter was out of the box.  Two pitches later, same foul ball, but ump rules the batter was out of the box, and the game was over. 
3leftturns

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Reply with quote  #57 
Yeah, saw that... must have been pretty egregious since there was no semblance of a visible batters box
HeavyDuty

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Reply with quote  #58 
Quote:
Originally Posted by NadiaM
How fast does that kid in the Cougar uniform throw?  Just curious....
She was in the low-to-mid 60s, typically...she was a very good pitcher, and even better hitter, I thought, but there was a marked advantage to the angles she was creating by illegally replanting outside the pitching lane, which is where she lived...again, IMO.
spazsdad

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Reply with quote  #59 
Back leg bent=replant. Cat taught all of us that years ago.
I was at regionals a few years back and started having a “discussion” regarding IPs in the SEC with an athletic admin that was sitting by me. When I questioned the SEC’s reluctance to enforce pitching rules he got quite testy with me and was adamant that the SEC was one of the best at enforcing the rules and I didn’t know what I was talking about.

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TheNarrator

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Reply with quote  #60 
Just keep this picture on your phone:

Five Things to Watch in Super Regionals

 

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