Ultimate College Softball
Sign up Calendar Latest Topics
 
 
 


Reply
  Author   Comment   Page 1 of 2      1   2   Next
DunninLA

Registered:
Posts: 5,145
Reply with quote  #1 
So, EE is not much liked around the softball world outside of Mizzou, because he really does say a lot of assinine stuff when he loses his temper, but that's not the point of this thread.  I have no connection to this at all but it came to mind when I watched Florida-Mizzou and realized Mizzou finished last in the SEC and will not participate in the SEC tournament they are HOSTING.  That is an embarrassment to the team, program, and Athletic Department that could have been avoided.
 
By way of background, in 2016 the prior AD opened an investigation of complaints about EE, which was transferred to the Title IX division of the school, and the program was a few monthly later  found to not be in violation of any federal statutes.   (The players' leadership protested the investigation --see below).  

Now forward to Dec. 2017.   Jim Stark, Mizzou new AD, fires EE two weeks before the season with zero warning, citing  "a culmination of leadership concerns" that went back years, as well as a failure to "foster the type of healthy environment we expect for our student-athletes", and finally, "serious concerns about the culture" of the team environment.    I take that to mean some players thought he was too tough or "verbally abusive". 

How did the AD fail?

1. Failure to heed the support for EE of the team's player leadership council.  The actual players, that is their leadership council, which is composed of one member of each class freshman through senior, disagreed with the original investigation and gave their full support to EE.

2. Terrible timing -- two weeks before the season?   It's not like there was some unknown smoking gun we didn't know about, because that would have come out in the aftermath, which it didn't.  The AD couldn't wait five months for the season to end?  

So there you have it -- another bonehead AD joins the one from Stanford by overreacting, failing to openly involve all stakeholders, chief of which should be the players themselves, with due diligence, and disrupting a program for years.  And who pays for the bonehead move?  The players.

__________________
qui tacet consentire videtur
Prowler

Registered:
Posts: 1,517
Reply with quote  #2 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DunninLA
So, EE is not much liked around the softball world outside of Mizzou, because he really does say a lot of assinine stuff when he loses his temper, but that's not the point of this thread.  I have no connection to this at all but it came to mind when I watched Florida-Mizzou and realized Mizzou finished last in the SEC and will not participate in the SEC tournament they are HOSTING.  That is an embarrassment to the team, program, and Athletic Department that could have been avoided.
 
By way of background, in 2016 the prior AD opened an investigation of complaints about EE, which was transferred to the Title IX division of the school, and the program was a few monthly later  found to not be in violation of any federal statutes.   (The players' leadership protested the investigation --see below).  

Now forward to Dec. 2017.   Jim Stark, Mizzou new AD, fires EE two weeks before the season with zero warning, citing  "a culmination of leadership concerns" that went back years, as well as a failure to "foster the type of healthy environment we expect for our student-athletes", and finally, "serious concerns about the culture" of the team environment.    I take that to mean some players thought he was too tough or "verbally abusive". 

How did the AD fail?

1. Failure to heed the support for EE of the team's player leadership council.  The actual players, that is their leadership council, which is composed of one member of each class freshman through senior, disagreed with the original investigation and gave their full support to EE.

2. Terrible timing -- two weeks before the season?   It's not like there was some unknown smoking gun we didn't know about, because that would have come out in the aftermath, which it didn't.  The AD couldn't wait five months for the season to end?  

So there you have it -- another bonehead AD joins the one from Stanford by overreacting, failing to involve all stakeholder, chief of which should be the players themselves, with due diligence, and disrupting a program for years.  And who pays for the bonehead move?  The players.


If EE chose the leadership council, it stands to reason that he would choose players who supported him.

I think there probaby was a smoking gun, but that it didn’t come to light. I can picture a scenario where the new AD talked with EE after being hired and said, ‘There’s a lot of light on your program, consider yourself on zero tolerance, I don’t want any more problems” ... and before the season there were complaints (verbal abuse maybe? Who knows?) and the new AD said ‘OK, that’s enough considering all that has gone on before.”

Now let’s say a player or players did report verbal abuse: does that mean that it’s OK as long as four hand-picked players say it’s OK?

One doesn’t have to break federal laws to be fired.

Surely if he’s clean as a whistle he’ll easily find another job next season.
DunninLA

Registered:
Posts: 5,145
Reply with quote  #3 
why do you assume the player council is appointed by EE?  I don't know that it isn't but would assume not.
__________________
qui tacet consentire videtur
sMurph

Registered:
Posts: 545
Reply with quote  #4 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DunninLA
So, EE is not much liked around the softball world outside of Mizzou, because he really does say a lot of assinine stuff when he loses his temper, but that's not the point of this thread.  I have no connection to this at all but it came to mind when I watched Florida-Mizzou and realized Mizzou finished last in the SEC and will not participate in the SEC tournament they are HOSTING.  That is an embarrassment to the team, program, and Athletic Department that could have been avoided.
 
By way of background, in 2016 the prior AD opened an investigation of complaints about EE, which was transferred to the Title IX division of the school, and the program was a few monthly later  found to not be in violation of any federal statutes.   (The players' leadership protested the investigation --see below).  

Now forward to Dec. 2017.   Jim Stark, Mizzou new AD, fires EE two weeks before the season with zero warning, citing  "a culmination of leadership concerns" that went back years, as well as a failure to "foster the type of healthy environment we expect for our student-athletes", and finally, "serious concerns about the culture" of the team environment.    I take that to mean some players thought he was too tough or "verbally abusive". 

How did the AD fail?

1. Failure to heed the support for EE of the team's player leadership council.  The actual players, that is their leadership council, which is composed of one member of each class freshman through senior, disagreed with the original investigation and gave their full support to EE.

2. Terrible timing -- two weeks before the season?   It's not like there was some unknown smoking gun we didn't know about, because that would have come out in the aftermath, which it didn't.  The AD couldn't wait five months for the season to end?  

So there you have it -- another bonehead AD joins the one from Stanford by overreacting, failing to openly involve all stakeholders, chief of which should be the players themselves, with due diligence, and disrupting a program for years.  And who pays for the bonehead move?  The players.




Sorry, but it is not valid to assume the "official" words of the leadership council represented the true feelings of the players. In fact I distinctly remember some articles quoting players (who didn't want their name to be used because they were SCARED of EE) and quoting some parents that indicated there were very negative views of EE by players. 

Folks who have been bullied and seen the consequences of challenging a leader who leads thru intimidation get manipulated into writing stuff that's not true or not representative of their feelings. The Michigan state gymnastics coach supported Nassar and had intimidated multiple gymnasts into not filing Title IX complaints on him over the years. When he was FINALLY placed on administrative leave and stuff started coming out, the coach brought a huge card to practice that basically said "Hang in there, tough times don't last, we support you"  and told the gymnasts to SIGN IT. And most of them did.  [mad]




Prowler

Registered:
Posts: 1,517
Reply with quote  #5 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DunninLA
why do you assume the player council is appointed by EE?  I don't know that it isn't but would assume not.


Every one I’ve ever known about was selected by the coaching staff.

Why assume nothing happened other than 2 weeks before the season the AD woke up and said, “I think I’ll go ahead and fire the softball coach today”? I assume just the opposite, that something happened to break the camel’s back. He was probaby on double secret probation already.

I do know this, because I’ve worked with a few over time: Some people just make it easy to fire them and difficult to keep them around — put out one fire and they light another.
RahOKU

Registered:
Posts: 1,741
Reply with quote  #6 
As another unattached observer I'll agree that it's a shame Mizzou will be watching the SECT from the stands.

Unfortunately, the pitching on Sunday broke down twice, and in the 7th it just seemed like there was fear/dread in the circle that something bad would happen (which it did). Don't know that you can coach around that, but hitting UF's Hoover in the butt to lead off the inning, on a 1-2 pitch no less, started the snowball rolling. That was the time to hand the ball to Rice, but maybe it wouldn't have made any difference.

__________________
"We Americans have good teeth and don't eat spotted dick." -- Columnist Kurt Schlichter
sMurph

Registered:
Posts: 545
Reply with quote  #7 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RahOKU
As another unattached observer I'll agree that it's a shame Mizzou will be watching the SECT from the stands.

Unfortunately, the pitching on Sunday broke down twice, and in the 7th it just seemed like there was fear/dread in the circle that something bad would happen (which it did). Don't know that you can coach around that, but hitting UF's Hoover in the butt to lead off the inning, on a 1-2 pitch no less, started the snowball rolling. That was the time to hand the ball to Rice, but maybe it wouldn't have made any difference.




Is Mizzou within 400 miles of Norman?  If so, they could be in Norman next weekend as the 2 seed in the OU regional. Not suggesting OU will have any trouble with them, just curious.  
RahOKU

Registered:
Posts: 1,741
Reply with quote  #8 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sMurph




Is Mizzou within 400 miles of Norman?  If so, they could be in Norman next weekend as the 2 seed in the OU regional. Not suggesting OU will have any trouble with them, just curious.  


 466 miles according to Google maps.

__________________
"We Americans have good teeth and don't eat spotted dick." -- Columnist Kurt Schlichter
scrybe

Registered:
Posts: 1,370
Reply with quote  #9 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sMurph




Is Mizzou within 400 miles of Norman?  If so, they could be in Norman next weekend as the 2 seed in the OU regional. Not suggesting OU will have any trouble with them, just curious.  


No, what you are doing is making another one of your obnoxious posts.
DunninLA

Registered:
Posts: 5,145
Reply with quote  #10 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prowler
 He was probaby on double secret probation already.
well, he WAS on double probation by the outgoing AD but it wasn't secret.

__________________
qui tacet consentire videtur
DunninLA

Registered:
Posts: 5,145
Reply with quote  #11 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prowler
 I assume just the opposite, that something happened to break the camel’s back.  
that is possible,  but I'm reading between the lines of the interviews with the AD, and then the interviews with EE afterward, and it seems EE was completely blindsided by the timing of the decision.   Meaning there wasn't any gun giving off smoke, and there was zero discussion leading up to the firing.  If that is the case, why not wait until the season has run its course rather than ruining the season for the players, who now get to watch their own hosted tournament from the stands?

Unlike that tragedy of USA gymnastics, nothing has come out in the six months since his firing to indicate that there was an immediate issue that had to be dealt with two weeks before the season commenced.

It just feels like the new AD was unneccesarily throwing his weight around by rushing something that could have waited.

As I recall there was another very successful coach in Alabama about three yeas ago that was fired abruptly, also for an accumulation of being too ... fill in the word ... loud, abusive, intense, etc., also seemingly out of left field, and he continued his career success at other larger programs without any problem.

What is it with ADs feeling the need to fire coaches right before a season starts?   Look at what that did to UL and Lotief.

__________________
qui tacet consentire videtur
Devin22

Registered:
Posts: 1,298
Reply with quote  #12 
I think Earleywine was more obsessed with beating Walton and the Gators than getting to OKC for the WCWS....I am sure that the new AD was looking to make changes, that is what happens when someone new is hired. And the pot was already brewing...
3leftturns

Registered:
Posts: 16,153
Reply with quote  #13 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DunninLA
So, EE is not much liked around the softball world outside of Mizzou, because he really does say a lot of assinine stuff when he loses his temper, but that's not the point of this thread.  I have no connection to this at all but it came to mind when I watched Florida-Mizzou and realized Mizzou finished last in the SEC and will not participate in the SEC tournament they are HOSTING.  That is an embarrassment to the team, program, and Athletic Department that could have been avoided.
 
By way of background, in 2016 the prior AD opened an investigation of complaints about EE, which was transferred to the Title IX division of the school, and the program was a few monthly later  found to not be in violation of any federal statutes.   (The players' leadership protested the investigation --see below).  

Now forward to Dec. 2017.   Jim Stark, Mizzou new AD, fires EE two weeks before the season with zero warning, citing  "a culmination of leadership concerns" that went back years, as well as a failure to "foster the type of healthy environment we expect for our student-athletes", and finally, "serious concerns about the culture" of the team environment.    I take that to mean some players thought he was too tough or "verbally abusive". 

How did the AD fail?

1. Failure to heed the support for EE of the team's player leadership council.  The actual players, that is their leadership council, which is composed of one member of each class freshman through senior, disagreed with the original investigation and gave their full support to EE.

2. Terrible timing -- two weeks before the season?   It's not like there was some unknown smoking gun we didn't know about, because that would have come out in the aftermath, which it didn't.  The AD couldn't wait five months for the season to end?  

So there you have it -- another bonehead AD joins the one from Stanford by overreacting, failing to openly involve all stakeholders, chief of which should be the players themselves, with due diligence, and disrupting a program for years.  And who pays for the bonehead move?  The players.
Only mistake Mizzou made was allowing him on the team bus back from the 2016 Nutter after the Oregon-Mizzou disaster... Took almost two more years....pathetic
sMurph

Registered:
Posts: 545
Reply with quote  #14 
Quote:
Originally Posted by scrybe


No, what you are doing is making another one of your obnoxious posts.




Well I never.  [confused]  What is obnoxious about suggesting Missouri could be placed in OU's regional? 
DunninLA

Registered:
Posts: 5,145
Reply with quote  #15 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3leftturns
after the Oregon-Mizzou disaster... Took almost two more years....pathetic
exactly my point.   Two weeks before the season?

__________________
qui tacet consentire videtur
sMurph

Registered:
Posts: 545
Reply with quote  #16 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3leftturns
Only mistake Mizzou made was allowing him on the team bus back from the 2016 Nutter after the Oregon-Mizzou disaster... Took almost two more years....pathetic



Exactly, Earlywine is clearly a coach who checks all the boxes of being an intimidating, abusive, manipulating, all about himself bag of wind. Holding on to such coaches causes far more problems than keeping them. 

Among available coaching candidates around the country, he is probably the most accomplished on the field ... but haven't heard a peep that anyone is eager to hire him. There's a reason for that, a real one. 
CoachZ

Registered:
Posts: 773
Reply with quote  #17 
Dunnin— your “reading between the lines” has left you with no facts. There is an absolute likelihood that EE was one more stupid move away from a kid literally not surviving his idiocy. He probably just figured he had gotten away with it for this long and had the nerve to be shocked when the new guy didn’t pass the buck, but did his job. I wish he would have done it sooner so that the kids and coaches could’ve been better off. But he probably came in and gave EE one more chance.
EE was not just the run of the mill, loud, abusive windbag. He was a tormenter who regularly made piss poor decisions that at times actually put his players IN DANGER and followed it up by convincing them that it was their own fault. He is a special kind of disaster who needs some real therapy. This sucks for the kids. But it’s not the AD’s fault and is NOWHERE in the same zip code as the John Rittman debacle.
LSUsoftballfan

Registered:
Posts: 560
Reply with quote  #18 
So there you have it -- another bonehead AD joins the one from Stanford by overreacting, failing to openly involve all stakeholders, chief of which should be the players themselves, with due diligence, and disrupting a program for years.  And who pays for the bonehead move?  The players.


Sometimes it is up to the adults to intervene, be the voice of reason, explain to the players that what they are going through is wrong, no matter their level of loyalty, and save the youngsters from themselves.  I point to ULL as another example.
northernlights

Registered:
Posts: 63
Reply with quote  #19 
Quote:
Originally Posted by LSUsoftballfan
Sometimes it is up to the adults to intervene, be the voice of reason, explain to the players that what they are going through is wrong, no matter their level of loyalty, and save the youngsters from themselves. 


Congratulations for writing off some of the mentally and physically toughest young adults in our society as "youngsters" that need saving from themselves.  Exactly how old does someone need to be to hold a valid opinion that differs from yours?  

And why would you presume that all the players are going through the same thing?  Not everyone perceives things the same way or responds to the same techniques.  It's quite clear there were players who had no problems with EE.  Who are you to tell them different?
Kurosawa

Registered:
Posts: 3,194
Reply with quote  #20 
Not to mention all the players who transferred out under EE: Stangel, Lowary, Finucane, Conrad, Duffner. Gasso said Lowary was "broken" when she came to OU.

https://www.seccountry.com/missouri/missouri-tigers-softball-world-series-florida-gators
CoachZ

Registered:
Posts: 773
Reply with quote  #21 
Quote:
Originally Posted by northernlights


Congratulations for writing off some of the mentally and physically toughest young adults in our society as "youngsters" that need saving from themselves.  Exactly how old does someone need to be to hold a valid opinion that differs from yours?  

And why would you presume that all the players are going through the same thing?  Not everyone perceives things the same way or responds to the same techniques.  It's quite clear there were players who had no problems with EE.  Who are you to tell them different?


Let me see ... who are we? We are the adults standing outside the situation knowing that NO, in fact, it is not the kids’ fault that EE took the entire coaching staff and left the players in Knoxville to find their own way back to COMO after the SECT. We are the adults who aren’t so immersed in a situation that would suck to fail in (after all everyone is watching and you only get to do this once) who can encourage these young adults on their first real foray into independence to step forward and speak up when things are seriously wrong. And lastly, we are the adults who have a better grip on the possibility of LASTING CONSEQUENCES than 19 year old kids who are just trying desperately to live up to their own college softball expectations and would follow the person who can make it happen for them almost to the ends of the earth. We are the adults rooted in reality. That’s who we are supposed to be.
CoachZ

Registered:
Posts: 773
Reply with quote  #22 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurosawa
Not to mention all the players who transferred out under EE: Stangel, Lowary, Finucane, Conrad, Duffner. Gasso said Lowary was "broken" when she came to OU.

https://www.seccountry.com/missouri/missouri-tigers-softball-world-series-florida-gators


I’ve had a very respectable D1 coach who has dealt with more than one Mizzou transfer tell me that these players almost seem to have PTSD.
CrowHop

Registered:
Posts: 259
Reply with quote  #23 
Waaaaaaaaaaaay too much smoke here for there not to have been a fire.  A big one. In a large square metal box at the end of the alley.
__________________
Your pitcher is illegal.
TheNarrator

Registered:
Posts: 7,921
Reply with quote  #24 
Quote:
Originally Posted by CoachZ
it is not the kids’ fault that EE took the entire coaching staff and left the players in Knoxville to find their own way back to COMO after the SECT.


I am no EE apologist, but I am extremely skeptical this happened in 2018 without a member of the support staff or someone there with the team.  How did he strand his entire roster of players without transportation or adult supervision in Knoxville?
CoachZ

Registered:
Posts: 773
Reply with quote  #25 
Be skeptical. It still happened. Staff got on an early flight after they lost and left. Team found someone to rent a bus and drive them home.
TheNarrator

Registered:
Posts: 7,921
Reply with quote  #26 
So they just ate all the plane tickets for the team?  Who on the team dropped a credit card to rent the bus?
Sec_fan91

Registered:
Posts: 2,936
Reply with quote  #27 
I think any regional host would love for Mizzou to show up in their regional. Bombs away on that pitching!
CrowHop

Registered:
Posts: 259
Reply with quote  #28 
Quote:
Originally Posted by CoachZ
Be skeptical. It still happened. Staff got on an early flight after they lost and left. Team found someone to rent a bus and drive them home.



Did EE order a Code Red?

__________________
Your pitcher is illegal.
CoachZ

Registered:
Posts: 773
Reply with quote  #29 
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrowHop



Did EE order a Code Red?


You can’t handle the truth!!! 🤣🤣🤣
DunninLA

Registered:
Posts: 5,145
Reply with quote  #30 
this has been the first real discussion on this Board about the firing.  Long overdue and interesting to read everyone's perspective.
__________________
qui tacet consentire videtur
Previous Topic | Next Topic
Print
Reply

Quick Navigation:

Easily create a Forum Website with Website Toolbox.