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Will_I_Wynn

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Reply with quote  #1 
Been listening to Conservatives across the board say President Trump lies.  In this forum, I think it's unanimous.  It's an unusual phenomenon, to say the least, not to mention very very sad.  It's also very difficult for the Right to defend their President lying.  Their primary defense is to say the other side lies more.  Do they have any choice other than to say this?  The other defense is to say lies are acceptable if they get you what you want.  That seems to be a huge change among the Right unless they're just being insincere.

In any case, the purpose of this post is to share a personal opinion saying the biggest lie in our Country today may be the new definitions of "lie" being offered up by the Right. 

An opinion somebody disagrees with is now a lie.  If somebody believes what they say and others think they're wrong, then it's defined as a lie.  If you said there was a heaven, someone could say you lied.  Campaign promises not fulfilled are called lies just as failed predictions get the same label.  These have become the new definitions made up by the Right in order to use "lie" to denigrate the opposition and gain political capital.  The true definition, the one the Right ignores at every turn, remains "purposely saying something you know to be untrue". 

Now I expect this actual definition will be used by our regular member as it relates to "keeping your policy".  Let's take this example a bit deeper.

President Obama made a campaign promise that his healthcare bill would allow you to keep your policy and keep your doctor.  The context of his statement was that Government would not take either away but the Right disagrees.  I've explained it before but we'll leave it there.  For the sake of argument, let's say Obama meant each and every American would keep their insurance policy (that's so ridiculous it's even hard to say in a hypothetical manner) and his prediction was wrong.  Maybe only 90 some percent kept their policy.  It's not a lie because he thought he was being accurate (he was actually using a different context).  Our member will counter somebody in his office said people would lose policies so that's proof Obama knew what he said was a lie.  Well, maybe so, unless we understand somebody else in the office likely disagreed and gave a different forecast.  One individual's opinion isn't proof Obama knew what the ultimate result would be since it would require him believing the advice was absolutely true.  Good chance he didn't think it was.

In any event, lie is the new political weapon of our day, including in this forum,  and it would seem wise for Americans to understand why the word "lie" is used so often and why it is so often used in a deliberate and inaccurate fashion.


I'll use three examples which I think could be described as a lie:

I think Trump told a lie about Obama maybe being born outside the Country.  I think he knew this wasn't true and I think he had the evidence in his possession to prove it.

I think Trump told a lie when he said millions of illegals voted.  I think he knew this number to be untrue and knew how to confirm the false claim.

I think we all know he lied when he said he didn't have anything to do with the response letter provided by his son.

Even having strong confidence someone is lying, I still think it's a very bad practice to call someone a liar unless the accuser knows the facts for certain.  Better in my opinion to call it fabricated or unsubstantiated.  However, I don't think the Right is going to adopt my opinion anytime soon.


__________________
A gullible nation is a vulnerable nation.  Challenge what you read on the internet.  Our nation's security is in our hands.  Don't be duped by misinformation.

The Right in here are quoting posts and changing words.  Please search for original post if accurate information is desired.  Also, claims I moderate this discussion forum are untrue.

Obama voted best job as President during our lifetime.

     "In these times, I believe that social media has become evil."
Not sure we must blanket all social media but when anonymous adults attack other anonymous adults on the internet, one has to wonder what chance our kids have.

 Trump should be honest with the American people.


spazsdad

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Posts: 7,474
Reply with quote  #2 
More wasted bandwidth from the Misc. forum's #1 liar.
Do you get a chub every time you start one of your threads that you think is so clever?

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Fresh has rings. Ask him to tell you about them


keepinitreal

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Posts: 30,711
Reply with quote  #3 
Why did obama lie about the Benghazi murders?

“The day after Benghazi happened, I acknowledged that this was an act of terrorism”

Obama did refer to an “act of terror” in the immediate aftermath of the 2012 Benghazi attacks, but in vague terms, wrapped in a patriotic fervor. He never affirmatively stated that the American ambassador died because of an “act of terror.” Then, over a period of two weeks, given three opportunities in interviews to affirmatively agree that the Benghazi attack was a terrorist attack, the president obfuscated or ducked the question. So this was a case of taking revisionist history too far for political reasons.

 

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keepinitreal

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Reply with quote  #4 
If you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor.
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keepinitreal

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Posts: 30,711
Reply with quote  #5 
You didn't build that
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Shut up doofus. Not talking to you. 
 
kazoo

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Posts: 995
Reply with quote  #6 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Will_I_Wynn
Been listening to Conservatives across the board say President Trump lies.  In this forum, I think it's unanimous.  It's an unusual phenomenon, to say the least, not to mention very very sad.  It's also very difficult for the Right to defend their President lying.  Their primary defense is to say the other side lies more.  Do they have any choice other than to say this?  The other defense is to say lies are acceptable if they get you what you want.  That seems to be a huge change among the Right unless they're just being insincere.

In any case, the purpose of this post is to share a personal opinion saying the biggest lie in our Country today may be the new definitions of "lie" being offered up by the Right. 

An opinion somebody disagrees with is now a lie.  If somebody believes what they say and others think they're wrong, then it's defined as a lie.  If you said there was a heaven, someone could say you lied.  Campaign promises not fulfilled are called lies just as failed predictions get the same label.  These have become the new definitions made up by the Right in order to use "lie" to denigrate the opposition and gain political capital.  The true definition, the one the Right ignores at every turn, remains "purposely saying something you know to be untrue". 

Now I expect this actual definition will be used by our regular member as it relates to "keeping your policy".  Let's take this example a bit deeper.

President Obama made a campaign promise that his healthcare bill would allow you to keep your policy and keep your doctor.  The context of his statement was that Government would not take either away but the Right disagrees.  I've explained it before but we'll leave it there.  For the sake of argument, let's say Obama meant each and every American would keep their insurance policy (that's so ridiculous it's even hard to say in a hypothetical manner) and his prediction was wrong.  Maybe only 90 some percent kept their policy.  It's not a lie because he thought he was being accurate (he was actually using a different context).  Our member will counter somebody in his office said people would lose policies so that's proof Obama knew what he said was a lie.  Well, maybe so, unless we understand somebody else in the office likely disagreed and gave a different forecast.  One individual's opinion isn't proof Obama knew what the ultimate result would be since it would require him believing the advice was absolutely true.  Good chance he didn't think it was.

In any event, lie is the new political weapon of our day, including in this forum,  and it would seem wise for Americans to understand why the word "lie" is used so often and why it is so often used in a deliberate and inaccurate fashion.


I'll use three examples which I think could be described as a lie:

I think Trump told a lie about Obama maybe being born outside the Country.  I think he knew this wasn't true and I think he had the evidence in his possession to prove it.

I think Obama told a lie when he said millions of illegals voted.  I think he knew this number to be untrue and knew how to confirm the false claim.

I think we all know he lied when he said he didn't have anything to do with the response letter provided by his son.

Even having strong confidence someone is lying, I still think it's a very bad practice to call someone a liar unless the accuser knows the facts for certain.  Better in my opinion to call it fabricated or unsubstantiated.  However, I don't think the Right is going to adopt my opinion anytime soon.



It was Trump who lied about illegal voting, not Obama. 



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pabar61

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Posts: 13,741
Reply with quote  #7 
There were illegals who voted.  That's not a lie.
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Will I Wynn is a poster who used to go by the name of Dewey.  He used to criticize people who did that.

"Once you open your eyes, it's impossible to be a Democrat." - CJ Pearson
keepinitreal

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Posts: 30,711
Reply with quote  #8 
Plenty of evidence that obama lied, maybe a thread in order?  Nah, we know he lied

https://www.politifact.com/personalities/barack-obama/statements/byruling/false/

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keepinitreal

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Reply with quote  #9 
here are 10 obama lies that earned 4 Pinocchios.

Obama’s biggest whoppers

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2017/01/19/obamas-biggest-whoppers/?utm_term=.c171d3ab2851

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pabar61

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Posts: 13,741
Reply with quote  #10 
What a great headline from the liberal Washington Post.

Obama took lying to new heights with the Iran deal.  So true.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/obama-took-lying-to-new-heights-with-the-iran-deal/2018/06/07/b75f72d2-6a7c-11e8-9e38-24e693b38637_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.590266628ec5



__________________
Will I Wynn is a poster who used to go by the name of Dewey.  He used to criticize people who did that.

"Once you open your eyes, it's impossible to be a Democrat." - CJ Pearson
pabar61

Registered:
Posts: 13,741
Reply with quote  #11 
Washington Post gives 4 Pinocchios to Obama for lying about keeping your doctor and insurance.  But Dewey, who spends his time here at this piss-ant quasi-political discussion board, knows with certainty what Obama meant.  What a douche.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2013/10/30/obamas-pledge-that-no-one-will-take-away-your-health-plan/?utm_term=.c7bf8cb0fa84



__________________
Will I Wynn is a poster who used to go by the name of Dewey.  He used to criticize people who did that.

"Once you open your eyes, it's impossible to be a Democrat." - CJ Pearson
keepinitreal

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Posts: 30,711
Reply with quote  #12 

“90 percent of the budget deficit is due to George W. Bush’s policies”

During the 2012 campaign, Obama repeatedly reminded voters that he became president during a grim economic crisis. But he went too far when he claimed that only 10 percent of the federal deficit was due to his own policies. About half of the deficit stemmed from the recession and forecasting errors, but a large chunk (44 percent in 2011) were the result of Obama’s actions. At another point, Obama also falsely suggested that the Bush tax cuts led to the Great Recession.


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keepinitreal

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Reply with quote  #13 
http://thefederalist.com/2016/05/09/ben-rhodes-reveals-how-obama-duped-america-into-the-dangerous-iran-deal/
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Will_I_Wynn

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Posts: 4,054
Reply with quote  #14 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kazoo


It was Trump who lied about illegal voting, not Obama. 




Thanks

__________________
A gullible nation is a vulnerable nation.  Challenge what you read on the internet.  Our nation's security is in our hands.  Don't be duped by misinformation.

The Right in here are quoting posts and changing words.  Please search for original post if accurate information is desired.  Also, claims I moderate this discussion forum are untrue.

Obama voted best job as President during our lifetime.

     "In these times, I believe that social media has become evil."
Not sure we must blanket all social media but when anonymous adults attack other anonymous adults on the internet, one has to wonder what chance our kids have.

 Trump should be honest with the American people.


TheNarrator

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Posts: 7,890
Reply with quote  #15 
CNN lied about Lanny Davis - this is not opinion.
Fresh

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Posts: 5,645
Reply with quote  #16 
Lanny lied to CNN
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keepinitreal

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Posts: 30,711
Reply with quote  #17 

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TheNarrator

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Reply with quote  #18 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fresh
Lanny lied to CNN


And cnn lied about taking to Lanny.
Will_I_Wynn

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Posts: 4,054
Reply with quote  #19 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pabar61
There were illegals who voted.  That's not a lie.


Yes, I'm sure there were a few dozen or more who voted.  But now you're not re-defining the term "lie", you're re-defining what President Trump said.  He said millions of illegals voted and he knows that isn't true.  When the Right fails to win an argument, they hype the facts in order to make their side sound better.  Yet another way to be misinforming.

__________________
A gullible nation is a vulnerable nation.  Challenge what you read on the internet.  Our nation's security is in our hands.  Don't be duped by misinformation.

The Right in here are quoting posts and changing words.  Please search for original post if accurate information is desired.  Also, claims I moderate this discussion forum are untrue.

Obama voted best job as President during our lifetime.

     "In these times, I believe that social media has become evil."
Not sure we must blanket all social media but when anonymous adults attack other anonymous adults on the internet, one has to wonder what chance our kids have.

 Trump should be honest with the American people.


TheNarrator

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Posts: 7,890
Reply with quote  #20 
Just like you and Fresh are doing with cnn

Red team/dem team
Will_I_Wynn

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Posts: 4,054
Reply with quote  #21 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheNarrator
CNN lied about Lanny Davis - this is not opinion.


There are two stories here.  CNN says they have another source who gave them the story.  If they don't, they'll have some explaining to do.

The other story is CNN implying Davis wasn't a source when he was.  Here they were trying to protect the reputation and confidentiality of a source.  If you want to call it a lie, so be it.  If a lie is told without intention of any harm, I sometimes understand it.  Law enforcement sometimes lies to gain information from a suspect.  CNN was protecting a source.  I see no harm intended.

What the Right can learn from this particular story is huge.  When a news source appears to tell a story that isn't true, many other organizations are prepared to come down on them hard.  This type reaction occurs very rarely and proves how news from the MSM isn't fake the vast majority of the time.

__________________
A gullible nation is a vulnerable nation.  Challenge what you read on the internet.  Our nation's security is in our hands.  Don't be duped by misinformation.

The Right in here are quoting posts and changing words.  Please search for original post if accurate information is desired.  Also, claims I moderate this discussion forum are untrue.

Obama voted best job as President during our lifetime.

     "In these times, I believe that social media has become evil."
Not sure we must blanket all social media but when anonymous adults attack other anonymous adults on the internet, one has to wonder what chance our kids have.

 Trump should be honest with the American people.


TheNarrator

Registered:
Posts: 7,890
Reply with quote  #22 
So now in order to prove the media lied, we have to prove harm was intended? And you wonder why so many people hate engaging with you.

It was a lie - The fact that you won’t just admit it says more about you in the lengths you will go to to cover for the media.

At least the right will admit what Trump lies. They have an intellectual honesty and moral character.
keepinitreal

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Posts: 30,711
Reply with quote  #23 
Duaine sees no harm intended while CNN is dog paddling in the deep end trying to save what little reputation there is.  Duaine has proven here today that not only does CNN lie, he will lie for them
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Will_I_Wynn

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Reply with quote  #24 
A lie would be saying Lanny Davis was not a source.  If what you say is true, they said they reached out and Lanny had no comment.  That sounds like misdirection to keep Mr. Davis anonymity in tact.

At least nobody denied my claims that the definition of lie is being altered by the Right.  Let's not miss the point of this thread.

__________________
A gullible nation is a vulnerable nation.  Challenge what you read on the internet.  Our nation's security is in our hands.  Don't be duped by misinformation.

The Right in here are quoting posts and changing words.  Please search for original post if accurate information is desired.  Also, claims I moderate this discussion forum are untrue.

Obama voted best job as President during our lifetime.

     "In these times, I believe that social media has become evil."
Not sure we must blanket all social media but when anonymous adults attack other anonymous adults on the internet, one has to wonder what chance our kids have.

 Trump should be honest with the American people.


TheNarrator

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Posts: 7,890
Reply with quote  #25 
Oh - you’re still talking about this and embarrassing yourself?

No one is refuting what you say because we will not engage with you on subject you want to engage on. Explain your name change and maybe we will.
keepinitreal

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Posts: 30,711
Reply with quote  #26 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Will_I_Wynn
A lie would be saying Lanny Davis was not a source.  If what you say is true, they said they reached out and Lanny had no comment.  That sounds like misdirection to keep Mr. Davis anonymity in tact.

At least nobody denied my claims that the definition of lie is being altered by the Right.  Let's not miss the point of this thread.


What we did pretty clearly state and PROVE was that obama was just as much of a liar, you didn't deny that.  So by your standards, our claims that obama lied often must be true.  

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keepinitreal

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Posts: 30,711
Reply with quote  #27 
Quote:
Originally Posted by keepinitreal
here are 10 obama lies that earned 4 Pinocchios.

Obama’s biggest whoppers

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2017/01/19/obamas-biggest-whoppers/?utm_term=.c171d3ab2851


Duaine denied none of them, must be true.

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keepinitreal

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Reply with quote  #28 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheNarrator


And cnn lied about taking to Lanny.

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Will_I_Wynn

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Posts: 4,054
Reply with quote  #29 
They're using the primary defense which is to say the other side lies more than us.
__________________
A gullible nation is a vulnerable nation.  Challenge what you read on the internet.  Our nation's security is in our hands.  Don't be duped by misinformation.

The Right in here are quoting posts and changing words.  Please search for original post if accurate information is desired.  Also, claims I moderate this discussion forum are untrue.

Obama voted best job as President during our lifetime.

     "In these times, I believe that social media has become evil."
Not sure we must blanket all social media but when anonymous adults attack other anonymous adults on the internet, one has to wonder what chance our kids have.

 Trump should be honest with the American people.


keepinitreal

Registered:
Posts: 30,711
Reply with quote  #30 
There's no defense, you want to present a factual argument don't you or do you want to stay the same partisan hack that your sorry ass has always been?  I think I know the answer Duaine, you're a hack and getting a little old to be playing these games.
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