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TylerDurden

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Reply with quote  #1 
MSNBC doesn't wait for crash results to blame those wanting to cut funding to Amtrack.


Despicable piece of so called journalism.  I guess you never let a tragedy go to waste.
keepinitreal

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Reply with quote  #2 
Bill,
here's the link that spells out an oposite view of under funding.
http://www.breitbart.com/big-journalism/2015/05/13/11-things-the-media-wont-tell-you-about-amtrak/

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"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
TylerDurden

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Reply with quote  #3 
Republicans voted to slash Amtrack funding.

MSNBC better hope that this had something to do with a lack of funding, although any journalistic integrity they had left with "Hands up/Don't shoot".

Dewey, do you agree with this type of media reporting before all of the facts are in from the mouthpiece of the left?
Lost_1

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Reply with quote  #4 
As usual, the MSM narrative falls apart once the facts start coming in.



Officials say train in deadly wreck was going over 100 mph


PHILADELPHIA (AP) — The Amtrak train that crashed in Philadelphia, killing at least seven people, was hurtling at more than 100 mph before it ran off the rails along a sharp curve where the speed limit is just 50 mph, federal investigators said Wednesday.

The engineer at the controls refused to give a statement to authorities and left a police precinct with a lawyer, police said.

More than 200 people were injured in the derailment that plunged screaming passengers into darkness and chaos Tuesday night. It was the nation's deadliest train accident in nearly seven years.

"We are heartbroken by what has happened here," Mayor Michael Nutter said.

Hours after recovering the locomotive's data recorder, the National Transportation Safety Board tweeted that the train "exceeded 100 mph" before jumping the tracks in an old industrial neighborhood not far from the Delaware River shortly after 9 p.m.

The finding appeared to corroborate an Associated Press analysis of surveillance video from a spot along the tracks. The AP concluded from the footage that the train was speeding at approximately 107 mph just before it entered the curve.

The speed limit is 70 mph just before the bend, the Federal Railroad Administration said.

Despite pressure from Congress and safety regulators, Amtrak had not installed along that section of track Positive Train Control, a technology that prevents trains from going faster than the speed limit, the railroad agency said.


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If we are not careful, our colleges will produce a group of close-minded, unscientific, illogical propagandists, consumed with immoral acts. - Dr. Martin Luther King


“Everyone is in favor of free speech. Hardly a day passes without its being extolled, but some people's idea of it is that they are free to say what they like, but if anyone else says anything back, that is an outrage.” Winston S. Churchill


mikec

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Reply with quote  #5 
PTC keeps opposing trains from being on the same track, and can do other things, but I don't think it automatically slows trains to the speed limit around curves.

All public transit systems are supposed to be installing PTC.

Regardless, think about the moment of inertia (sideways force at the top of the top, that would tip it over) on a train going 100 on a 50 mph curve.  It would be hard to keep an SUV from rolling over, and it's not as tall or heavy as a train.

These crashes are called crashes as opposed to accidents, because there is always a cause.  They don't just mysteriously happen.
DietCoke

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Reply with quote  #6 
From Wiki -

Positive train control

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Positive train control (PTC) is a system of functional requirements for monitoring and controlling train movements as an attempt to provide increased safety.

The American Railway Engineering and Maintenance-of-Way Association (AREMA) describes Positive Train Control as having these primary characteristics:

  • Train separation or collision avoidance
  • Line speed enforcement
  • Temporary speed restrictions
  • Rail worker wayside safety [1]


From Association of American Railroads website -

Positive Train Control

Ensuring the Successful Deployment of Advanced Safety Technology

Positive train control (PTC) is a set of highly advanced technologies designed to automatically stop or slow a train before certain types of accidents occur. Specifically, PTC, as mandated by Congress in the Rail Safety Improvement Act of 2008 (RSIA), must be designed to prevent:

  • Train-to-train collisions

  • Derailments caused by excessive speed

  • Unauthorized incursions by trains onto sections of track where maintenance activities are taking place

  • Movement of a train through a track switch left in the wrong position

PTC is an unprecedented technical and operational challenge. Since enactment of RSIA, railroads have devoted enormous human and financial resources to develop a fully functioning PTC system over the 60,000 miles that are subject to the PTC mandate. Progress to date has been substantial. Railroads have retained more than 2,400 signal system personnel to implement PTC and has already spent $5 billion on PTC development and deployment. Railroads expect to spend more than $9 billion before development and installation is complete.

Nevertheless, due to PTC's complexity and the enormity of the implementation task — and the fact that much of the technology PTC requires simply did not exist when the PTC mandate was passed and has had to be developed from scratch — much work remains to be done. Despite railroads' best efforts, various technical and non-technical challenges make full development and deployment of PTC by 2015 impossible, as outlined in a March 2014 industry report on the progress of PTC implementation.

Consequently, the implementation deadline should be made more realistic to ensure that a fully-interoperable PTC system is deployed in a logical manner and thoroughly tested prior to implementation.

AAR Policy Position

  • Freight railroads support an extension of the December 2015 statutory PTC implementation deadline.+

     


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“If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.” – Dwight D. Eisenhower
mikec

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Reply with quote  #7 
Thanks for the update.

However, PTC has been difficult to implement, as identified in wiki article.  These trains have drivers for a reason.  I don't think it's as seamless as wiki makes it sound.
keepinitreal

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Reply with quote  #8 
Was dietwatereddown coke trying to make a point that says more government spending is needed because a train engineer wasn't doing his job? Or is she waiting for someone else to make the claim before she jumps in to give an opinion?

This is a good time to shut down Amtrak completely pending review. They did it in the gulf of Mexico after Deepwater Horizon. Shut it down for a year while we perform a government study.

P.s. has anyone found out if masare is part if the cleanup crew or not? I'm sure she volunteered in helping with the massive cleanup

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"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
mikec

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Reply with quote  #9 
I think trying to prove me wrong.
keepinitreal

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Reply with quote  #10 
Finally named the engineer. Why are they protecting this activist?

http://gotnews.com/breaking-gotnews-ids-gay-activist-train-engineer-who-caused-amtrak-crash/#

__________________
"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
keepinitreal

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Posts: 22,659
Reply with quote  #11 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TylerDurden
MSNBC doesn't wait for crash results to blame those wanting to cut funding to Amtrack.


Despicable piece of so called journalism.  I guess you never let a tragedy go to waste.


"Amtrak inspected the stretch of track on Tuesday, just hours before the accident, and found no defects, according to the Federal Railroad Administration. In addition to the data recorder, the train had a video camera in its front end that could yield clues to what happened, Sumwalt said."

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"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
spazsdad

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Reply with quote  #12 
Quote:
Originally Posted by keepinitreal
Finally named the engineer. Why are they protecting this activist?

http://gotnews.com/breaking-gotnews-ids-gay-activist-train-engineer-who-caused-amtrak-crash/#

Why does it matter if he is gay? Left, right, middle the media thrives on keeping us in our tribes.

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#SCOTUS
keepinitreal

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Posts: 22,659
Reply with quote  #13 
I have an interesting theory why it matters but I won't be sharing it on this forum.
__________________
"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
keepinitreal

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Posts: 22,659
Reply with quote  #14 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikec


However, PTC has been difficult to implement, as identified in wiki article.  These trains have drivers for a reason.  I don't think it's as seamless as wiki makes it sound.


Same thing I heard a couple of more times this evening.
It takes time for government to work, if we're lucky

__________________
"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
mikec

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Posts: 8,073
Reply with quote  #15 
KIR - this PTC system has been talked about, but was not fully developed when the regs were dropped.  Transit agencies all over the country were scrambling, trying to figure out how to implement it.

The systems are developed by the private sector, and purchased and implemented by the public sector.  Some very big names involved, from very good and capable companies.

This was like an unfunded mandate, an expensive one at that, dropped out of the sky, with no Commercial Off the Shelf (COTS) systems available at the time.

Initially, the focus was on collision avoidance with other trains, in areas where there was only one track, or to keep one train from running into the back of another one.  The monorails at Disney World have a system like that, so they can't run into each other.

I honestly didn't know they could enforce speed zones with it, but it's been about 2 years since I've dealt with it.  I can see where it could, but I don't think that was the impetus for it.

Imagine that their is no COTS system, but overnight, every transit and railroad track in the country is supposed to have it.  There aren't enough people to develop it and implement it, no matter how much money is available.

It is disingenuous, at best, to blame a crash like this on no PTC system.
keepinitreal

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Posts: 22,659
Reply with quote  #16 
Thanks mike, a little more insight than wiki can provide.
__________________
"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
mikec

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Posts: 8,073
Reply with quote  #17 
The other thing that boils my blood is the whole liberal "infrastructure investment" failure being blamed on the GOP.

The Federal Transportation Authorization is implemented in 6 year increments (well, prior to Obama at least).  The bill expired early in Obama's first term.  When he had both houses of Congress, there were bills working through both the Senate and House that increased spending for transit by something like more than 50%, and roads and highways by 30 or 40%.  It was biggest to be the biggest increase in spending in generations for infrastructure.

The bills had bi-partisan support in both Houses, and were moving towards votes.

Then Obamacare happened.  All of the attention of both houses got diverted to stimulus and Obamacare, and the transportation authorization sat idle.  It had been a month from being passed into law, and it got completely abandoned.

Of course, Obamacare and stimulus pushed budget deficits to the moon, and scared everyone off raising the infrastructure authorizations.

6 years later, and there's no still no authorization.  Since the Senate can't pass budgets, there is no reason to pass a law that says how much to spend.  So every years, transportation gets authorized for last years' money, sometimes with a very small increase.

For Dems to wail at this point about lack of infrastructure money just hacks me to no end.  They had the money, and bipartisan support to pass it.

But, their zeal for Obamacare and stimulus cost them the opportunity to do anything meaningful, and now they complain, and blame the GOP. 

Of course, most people don't follow things like this like I do, so they buy the talking points.

BTW - I personally think infrastructure is one of the best tools in the federal toolbox to spur the economy.  I was all for it, because that is one thing I don't mind spending money on.  The feds block grant most of their money to the states, and most states are efficient at implementing the program.

The stimulus was a waste, because grant recipients were cherry picked, and in many cases, they were not capable implementers.  It had nowhere near the effect that a higher spending for other transportation infrastructure would have had.

And, even worse, the stimulus broke the trust with the taxpayers, because it was a waste.

Dems had their chance, and they squandered for pet projects and giveaways.  They followed Obama over the cliff.

To pretend anything else now is an outright lie.

keepinitreal

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Reply with quote  #18 
Great pov. A lot better than, "I'll trust whatever my government recommends"

Sounds like the train engineer is employing the old hiLIARry defense "I can't remember"

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"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
Dewey

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Reply with quote  #19 
The stimulus, bank bailouts, saving the auto industry, financial regulations, and many other steps put forward by the Obama Administration, as well as others, saved this Country from a great depression.  To allow a member of a softball community forum to convince you otherwise is akin to considering the use of your buddy at work as your neurosurgeon.
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President Obama kept Republicans out of the White House for 8 years and added two excellent justices to the Supreme Court.  Those two things alone make him one of our greatest Presidents of my lifetime.
mikec

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Reply with quote  #20 
The stimulus was a complete waste.  Instead of shovel-ready projects, it got pissed away to campaign donors, among other things.

I worked on a few transportation stimulus projects.  Very few were shovel ready.

Real transportation infrastructure spending DOES stimulate the economy, but Obama, Reid, and Pelosi squandered that opportunity on the other worthless stuff.

To let someone on a softball forum try to convince you otherwise is silly.  As for your neurosurgeon example, I am your neurosurgeon for transportation issues.  I have told you before that I am deep into politics and major infrastructure projects.  I have been to Capitol Hill to talk these issues with Congressmen and Senators, and have met with the US DOT (both Federal Highway and Federal Transit), in addition to talking with the Federal Railroad Administration.

I have helped implement multi-billion dollar projects.

Have you done any of that?
keepinitreal

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Reply with quote  #21 
It's ok if your neurosurgeon is not covered under your obamacare plan. time for the readers to step up and wear all hats.

the readers hereby appoint mike who has more infrastructure experience than barack

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"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
TylerDurden

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Reply with quote  #22 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewey
The stimulus, bank bailouts, saving the auto industry, financial regulations, and many other steps put forward by the Obama Administration, as well as others, saved this Country from a great depression.  To allow a member of a softball community forum to convince you otherwise is akin to considering the use of your buddy at work as your neurosurgeon.


This has nothing to do with the topic of the thread.  I notice you are staying silent on the MSNBC articles - are you ok with the left blaming these deaths on the republicans in congress?
keepinitreal

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Reply with quote  #23 
Mike is what is called a SME on certain transportation and governmental issues. I am a SME in certain areas .
Dewy are you a SME at anything or just a government rah-rah?

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"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
mikec

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Posts: 8,073
Reply with quote  #24 
Back on topic, per Tyler:

The Dems had a golden opportunity to get it done for infrastructure, and they blew it.  Then, they saddled us with huge, unbeforeseen debts, that makes it that much more likely we won't see it for awhile.

For Dems to be trying to blame this now on the GOP is flat out lie.  MSNBC and other news organizations know it too.
Dewey

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Reply with quote  #25 
It's funny. I'm often chastised for omitting an "imo", ("you say that as if it's fact"), while our conservative friends say "absolutely not", (pabar), and "what you hear is a flat out lie", (mikec), without giving it a second thought. I find this more than odd, particularly in a thread criticizing journalism.
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President Obama kept Republicans out of the White House for 8 years and added two excellent justices to the Supreme Court.  Those two things alone make him one of our greatest Presidents of my lifetime.
keepinitreal

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Reply with quote  #26 
Why are you speaking about the members and mum on the subject matter? FYI pabar hasn't even weighed in on this thread.

Mike laid out many points to back up his statement much beyond what you have ever contributed

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"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
TylerDurden

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Reply with quote  #27 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewey
It's funny. I'm often chastised for omitting an "imo", ("you say that as if it's fact"), while our conservative friends say "absolutely not", (pabar), and "what you hear is a flat out lie", (mikec), without giving it a second thought. I find this more than odd, particularly in a thread criticizing journalism.


Should the readers take your silence on the subject that you are ok with this type of journalism coming from the mouthpiece of the left?  Why are you ducking the question?
mikec

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Posts: 8,073
Reply with quote  #28 
Sorry, on this infrastructure funding issue, it is a lie to pin it on GOP.  Dems had it in their hands, ready to go, and they deferred it to Obamacare and stimulus instead.

Once they did those, deficit concerns prevented being able to go back to a large infrastructure bill.

Dems blew it.  To say anything else is a lie.

Dewey - I was in the fight, I was there.  I don't remember seeing you in Washington. 
Lost_1

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Posts: 2,507
Reply with quote  #29 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikec
Sorry, on this infrastructure funding issue, it is a lie to pin it on GOP.  Dems had it in their hands, ready to go, and they deferred it to Obamacare and stimulus instead.

Once they did those, deficit concerns prevented being able to go back to a large infrastructure bill.

Dems blew it.  To say anything else is a lie.

Dewey - I was in the fight, I was there.  I don't remember seeing you in Washington. 




This reply from the Common Core thread is most fitting here.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewey
Lost 1 - Don't ask me any questions on this subject as I know almost nothing about it.  

__________________
If we are not careful, our colleges will produce a group of close-minded, unscientific, illogical propagandists, consumed with immoral acts. - Dr. Martin Luther King


“Everyone is in favor of free speech. Hardly a day passes without its being extolled, but some people's idea of it is that they are free to say what they like, but if anyone else says anything back, that is an outrage.” Winston S. Churchill


mikec

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Posts: 8,073
Reply with quote  #30 
I think, in this case, instead of witching about funding, they should be asking why there's only 1 engineer on a train going 100+, carrying hundreds of passengers.
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