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JackDandy

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If three people are sharing a house but only two of them can pay rent. When the landlord discovers that the rent was over paid, he should give the refund to the one who doesn’t pay rent, because he’s the one that really needs the money.


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When Communism comes to America it will be wrapped in an empty suit and promising hope and change.

Jack Dandy
Softballfanatic

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Jerry Wallace "For The Love Of The Game"
LMUfan

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Softballfanatic



+1
Dewey

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How about a little Conservative illogic.

If Obama provides a $290 billion tax cut, coupled with $497 billion in Government spending, to stimulate a collapsing economy, we'll call it a $787 spending bill.

If we prevail in the extension of tax cuts for everyone, we'll increase the long term "Obama deficits" by nearly a trillion more thus making our "deficit out of control" argument that much stronger. 
JoiseyGuy

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Reply with quote  #5 
How humorous yet really how sad !! The word "logic" is used quite loosely to explain an emotional response to whatever emotional "logic" the other Party uses. Yikes ! No wonder that our nation is in trouble.
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"Freethinkers are those who are willing to use their minds without prejudice and without fearing to understand things that clash with their own customs, privileges, or beliefs. This state of mind is not common, but it is essential for right thinking. Where it is absent discussion is apt to become worse than useless." Leo Tolstoy

"Do not try to teach pigs to sing. It will frustrate you and infuriate the pigs who will unite in anger against you, and you will never achieve singing your song". Dr. Petersen
oldscout

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Reply with quote  #6 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewey
How about a little Conservative illogic.

If Obama provides a $290 billion tax cut, coupled with $497 billion in Government spending, to stimulate a collapsing economy, we'll call it a $787 spending bill.

If we prevail in the extension of tax cuts for everyone, we'll increase the long term "Obama deficits" by nearly a trillion more thus making our "deficit out of control" argument that much stronger. 
There it is again....like it is the Govs money to begin with? The deficit will go down if you cut spending.

Do you HONESTLY think congress will cut spending[take a look at all entitlements] if taxes go up? No, they will just continue to spend.


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Terry Schneider
" Fear not tomorrow, God is already there ".
Dewey

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oldscout - I was making no policy points.  I'm just pointing out how illogical Conservative thinking can be.  They want tax cuts for everyone but they can't wait to use the new and larger long term debt projection number once they're extended.  Then again, if you're biased to the right, you might find that brilliant strategy.

oldscout

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewey

oldscout - I was making no policy points.  I'm just pointing out how illogical Conservative thinking can be.  They want tax cuts for everyone but they can't wait to use the new and larger long term debt projection number once they're extended.  Then again, if you're biased to the right, you might find that brilliant strategy.

Be it under Bush or Obama. I do think the deficit is from spending too much. Other than the plan by the 3 i mentioned in another thread,I have seen NO ONE from either side that is proposing a plan that includes both taxes & cuts.....that's what my family has had to do,save in case they lose their jobs & cut back their expenditures[ novel approach]

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Terry Schneider
" Fear not tomorrow, God is already there ".
bluedog

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This venerable and much honored WW II vet is well known in Hawaii for his seventy-plus years of service to patriotic organizations and causes all over the country. A humble man without a political bone in his body, he has never spoken out before about a government official, until now. He dictated this letter to a friend, signed it and mailed it to the president.

 

Dear President Obama,      

         

    My name is Harold Estes, approaching 95 on December 13 of this year.  People meeting me for the first time don't believe my age because I remain wrinkle free and pretty much mentally alert.

 

I enlisted in the U.S. Navy in 1934 and served proudly before, during and after WW II retiring as a Master Chief Bos'n Mate.  Now I live in a "rest home" located on the western end of Pearl Harbor , allowing me to keep alive the memories of 23 years of service to my country.

 

One of the benefits of my age, perhaps the only one, is to speak my mind, blunt and direct even to the head man.

 

So here goes.

 

I am amazed, angry and determined not to see my country die before I do, but you seem hell bent not to grant me that wish.

 

I can't figure out what country you are the president of.

You fly around the world telling our friends and enemies despicable lies like:

            " We're no longer a Christian nation"

            " America is arrogant" - (Your wife even

                announced to the world," America is mean-

                spirited. " Please tell her to try preaching

                that nonsense to 23 generations of our

                war dead buried all over the globe who

                died for no other reason than to free a

                whole lot of strangers from tyranny and

                hopelessness.)

I'd say shame on the both of you, but I don't think you like America, nor do I see an ounce of gratefulness in anything you do, for the obvious gifts this country has given you.  To be without shame or gratefulness is a dangerous thing for a man sitting in the White House.

 

After 9/11 you said," America hasn't lived up to her ideals."

 

Which ones did you mean? Was it the notion of personal liberty that 11,000 farmers and shopkeepers died for to win independence from the British?  Or maybe the ideal that no man should be a slave to another man, that 500,000 men died for in the Civil War?  I hope you didn't mean the ideal 470,000 fathers, brothers, husbands, and a lot of fellas I knew personally died for in WWII, because we felt real strongly about not letting any nation push us around, because we stand for freedom.

 

I don't think you mean the ideal that says equality is better than discrimination.  You know the one that a whole lot of white people understood when they helped to get you elected.

 

Take a little advice from a very old geezer, young man.

 

Shape up and start acting like an American.  If you don't, I'll do what I can to see you get shipped out of that fancy rental on Pennsylvania Avenue .  You were elected to lead not to bow, apologize and kiss the hands of murderers and corrupt leaders who still treat their people like slaves.

 

And just who do you think you are telling the American people not to jump to conclusions and condemn that Muslim major who killed 13 of his fellow soldiers and wounded dozens more. You mean you don't want us to do what you did when that white cop used force to subdue that black college professor in Massachusetts , who was putting up a fight?  You don't mind offending the police calling them stupid but you don't want us to offend Muslim fanatics by calling them what they are, terrorists.

 

One more thing.  I realize you never served in the military and never had to defend your country with your life, but you're the Commander-in-Chief now, son.  Do your job.  When your battle-hardened field General asks you for 40,000 more troops to complete the mission, give them to him.  But if you're not in this fight to win, then get out.  The life of one American soldier is not worth the best political strategy you're thinking of.

 

You could be our greatest president because you face the greatest challenge ever presented to any president.  

You're not going to restore American greatness by bringing back our bloated economy.  That's not our greatest threat.  Losing the heart and soul of who we are as Americans is our big fight now.

And I sure as hell don't want to think my president is the enemy in this final battle...

 

Sincerely,

Harold B. Estes

JackDandy

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When Communism comes to America it will be wrapped in an empty suit and promising hope and change.

Jack Dandy
Dewey

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Reply with quote  #11 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluedog

 


From the letter bluedog posted...
 
Dear President Obama,
 
I am amazed, angry and determined not to see my country die before I do, but you seem hell bent not to grant me that wish.
 
 



The end of our Country?  Geez.  Under the last Republican Administration we experienced two wars, record debt, hidden negotiations regarding energy policy, divisive debates over torture and invasion of privacy, and a collapse of our financial institutions just to name a few not so positive items.  Now Obama is elected and he gets some of the Universal health care issues he campaigned on put into law and we think the Country is dying?  Gimme a break.
indyrun

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Reply with quote  #12 

Hey, the guy's 95 - heck, I'm 72 and a "little" edgy already.  Hate to think what tricks the mind will play, if and when I make that age.  Bugging Out 





GoYard

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Reply with quote  #13 
Good graphic here, showing the effect of extending the tax cuts to just the "middle class" (Dem plan) and to everyone (Rep plan). 



JoiseyGuy

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Reply with quote  #14 
Are you sure that ol Harold isn't Sean Hannity in disguise? If he's real, my congratulations on his nationalism and service and his desire for a better USA. I do wish, though that he had written a similar letter to George Bush Jr. in his first term.

__________________
"Freethinkers are those who are willing to use their minds without prejudice and without fearing to understand things that clash with their own customs, privileges, or beliefs. This state of mind is not common, but it is essential for right thinking. Where it is absent discussion is apt to become worse than useless." Leo Tolstoy

"Do not try to teach pigs to sing. It will frustrate you and infuriate the pigs who will unite in anger against you, and you will never achieve singing your song". Dr. Petersen
bluedog

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Reply with quote  #15 
This "tea party" thing is probably gonna work.....Like Gingrich's "contract with America" worked years ago to get people elected.....

Sarah Palin will probably be the republican presidential candidate....Better than even money.....

Any incumbent presidential candidate in a bad economy will get kicked out....They don't stand a chance....
bluedog

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JoiseyGuy

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bluedog - I chuckled when I saw your Obama and the pastor post. I have a picture just like that taken with a former friend of mine who is now doing time in a federal prison for fraud and embezzlement. I hope that doesn't make me a criminal in your eyes.
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"Freethinkers are those who are willing to use their minds without prejudice and without fearing to understand things that clash with their own customs, privileges, or beliefs. This state of mind is not common, but it is essential for right thinking. Where it is absent discussion is apt to become worse than useless." Leo Tolstoy

"Do not try to teach pigs to sing. It will frustrate you and infuriate the pigs who will unite in anger against you, and you will never achieve singing your song". Dr. Petersen
JackDandy

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Reply with quote  #18 
goyard, which of those income brackets are the job creators? I know I know.... if we just take their money and redistribute it, we won't need them to create jobs because the recipients won't need to work.



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When Communism comes to America it will be wrapped in an empty suit and promising hope and change.

Jack Dandy
GoYard

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Reply with quote  #19 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JackDandy
goyard, which of those income brackets are the job creators? I know I know.... if we just take their money and redistribute it, we won't need them to create jobs because the recipients won't need to work.


Can't resist it, can you, JD?

Actually, many sources say the rich will just SAVE any tax cuts they get.  And many - gasp!! - will invest the money in stocks of companies doing most or all of their business in other countries. 

Rich save tax cuts

Maybe in your perfect world, JD, the "rich" will take all that extra money & pump it into new jobs in their companies (because only the "rich" own companies), but in the real world, that's not what happens.


oldscout

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Reply with quote  #20 

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoYard
Quote:
Originally Posted by JackDandy
goyard, which of those income brackets are the job creators? I know I know.... if we just take their money and redistribute it, we won't need them to create jobs because the recipients won't need to work.


Can't resist it, can you, JD?

Actually, many sources say the rich will just SAVE any tax cuts they get.  And many - gasp!! - will invest the money in stocks of companies doing most or all of their business in other countries. 

Rich save tax cuts

Maybe in your perfect world, JD, the "rich" will take all that extra money & pump it into new jobs in their companies (because only the "rich" own companies), but in the real world, that's not what happens.


If we raise taxes, do you think more jobs will return to USA?

Jobs,Jobs,Jobs,...need a plan.


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Terry Schneider
" Fear not tomorrow, God is already there ".
JackDandy

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Reply with quote  #21 

Oh I get it goyard, take their money away from them because they might spend it in another country? hey sounds like more liberal logic!!!
By the way, since you want to take the money away from the high income earners, where do YOU think new jobs will come from?

Oh and one more thing, if the evil rich are not spending and investing the extra money that they earned, then please explain why every time we give them a tax break, revenues to the federal government increase.

You see, even Obama knows that the economy is stimulated when you cut taxes, but in his own words, it is not about raising revenue to the government, it is more about fairness. It is not fair that someone else makes more money than the next guy. 


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When Communism comes to America it will be wrapped in an empty suit and promising hope and change.

Jack Dandy
JoiseyGuy

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Reply with quote  #22 
old scout - How about if corporations stopped "downsizing" and "outsourcing"? Wouldn't that decrease unemployment drastically? But then again that would decrease profit for wealthy entrepreneurs, wouldn't it? Redistribution of wealth upward is inevitably done on the backs of workers. Aiding corporate excuses for "downsizing" and "outsourcing" are labor unions that have outlived their usefulness in micro and macro economics. Wage demands and benefits can become absurd and economically destructive when they too heavily cut into or even eliminate profits.

The common greed of corporate investors and union demands has wreaked havoc on our economy as the profit motive increases demands for higher economic results and consistently higher standards of living for both. Obviously this leads to economic warfare concerning the distribution of profit. Who has the strongest lobby in Washington and the money to "buy" politicians who will support either "army" through legislation or power moves?

"Trickle down" or "Prime the pump" are economic dinosaurs that have never worked, but still are viewed for effect by either side in the economic conflict. I have no answer until we decide just what is the ethical response to greed by both corporations and unions, and what exactly do either owe, if anything, to the entire citizenry and national economic concept of the USA.

I have not heard the concept of profit sharing for some time now. Small business does something like that almost universally with the entrepreneur fairly getting more as the result of the capitalistic risk and management factor. JFK once said that just because there's a problem, that doesn't mean there's a solution. In this area, perspectives are so opposite by virtue of economic first premise that maybe this is an example. And then, of course there is the tax situation (and how to avoid paying to increase spendable).

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"Freethinkers are those who are willing to use their minds without prejudice and without fearing to understand things that clash with their own customs, privileges, or beliefs. This state of mind is not common, but it is essential for right thinking. Where it is absent discussion is apt to become worse than useless." Leo Tolstoy

"Do not try to teach pigs to sing. It will frustrate you and infuriate the pigs who will unite in anger against you, and you will never achieve singing your song". Dr. Petersen
Dewey

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Reply with quote  #23 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JackDandy
Oh I get it goyard, take their money away from them because they might spend it in another country? hey sounds like more liberal logic!!!



No, maybe this was a lack of "logic" by the last Conservative Administration.  Bush gave everyone a ten year tax discount ending in 2011.  We couldn't afford to make it longer than that.  Now that the tax law is ending, we are unfairly calling these Obama tax hikes or, worse yet, "taking money away".  Is this silly logic or was this a diabolical plan intended to embarrass the next President?

So we are back to where we were in 2000 and this President believes tax relief for the vast majority of our citizens will be helpful for both them and the economy.  He also feels tax discounts for the very wealthy are both unnecessary and unaffordable.  Many agree with this approach but, whether you do or you don't, one must admit he is cutting taxes and not raising them.  But that kind of accuracy doesn't stir the Conservative base.        


JoiseyGuy

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Reply with quote  #24 
Dewey - Reducing taxes and going to war is an economic insanity.
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"Freethinkers are those who are willing to use their minds without prejudice and without fearing to understand things that clash with their own customs, privileges, or beliefs. This state of mind is not common, but it is essential for right thinking. Where it is absent discussion is apt to become worse than useless." Leo Tolstoy

"Do not try to teach pigs to sing. It will frustrate you and infuriate the pigs who will unite in anger against you, and you will never achieve singing your song". Dr. Petersen
bluedog

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Reply with quote  #25 
Quote:
bluedog - I chuckled when I saw your Obama and the pastor post. I have a picture just like that taken with a former friend of mine who is now doing time in a federal prison for fraud and embezzlement. I hope that doesn't make me a criminal in your eyes.  


No, of course not.....Does your story tie-in with the picture I posted in any way?
GoYard

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Reply with quote  #26 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JackDandy
Oh and one more thing, if the evil rich are not spending and investing the extra money that they earned, then please explain why every time we give them a tax break, revenues to the federal government increase.


One again, in your dream world, JD, this is how it works.  And it sounds reasonable.  However, such is NOT always the case:

No Free Lunch

CBO data

Position not supported by budget experts

Brookings study

The Brookings report states (my emphasis):

Several studies have quantified the effects noted above in different ways and used different models, yet all have come to the same conclusion: Making the tax cuts permanent is likely to reduce, not increase, national income in the long term unless the reduction in revenues is matched by an equal reduction in government consumption. And even in that case, a positive impact on longterm growth occurs only if the spending cuts occur contemporaneously, which has decidedly not occurred, or if models with implausible features (like short-term Ricardian equivalence) are employed.

I again refer you to this site, with a lot of good information:

Ending Bush tax cuts


Dewey

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Posts: 24,419
Reply with quote  #27 
Here are the revenues and outlays.  The percentage of revenue increase in the nineties versus the Bush years was much higher.  There can be no doubt that tax cuts affected revenue.
 

1992

1,091,328

1,381,649

1993

1,154,471

1,409,522

1994

1,258,721

1,461,907

1995

1,351,932

1,515,884

1996

1,453,177

1,560,608

1997

1,579,423

1,601,307

1998

1,721,955

1,652,685

1999

1,827,645

1,702,035

2000

2,025,457

1,789,216

2001

1,991,426

1,863,190

2002

1,853,395

2,011,153

2003

1,782,532

2,160,117

2004

1,880,279

2,293,006

2005

2,153,859

2,472,205

2006

2,407,254

2,655,435

2007

2,568,239

2,728,940

2008

2,524,326

2,982,881

2009 estimate

2,156,654

3,997,842

2010 estimate

2,332,645

3,591,076

JoiseyGuy

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Reply with quote  #28 
bluedog - Of course - in the sense that some people accuse others of being unsavory by virtue of a former relationship. Guilt by association !!!
__________________
"Freethinkers are those who are willing to use their minds without prejudice and without fearing to understand things that clash with their own customs, privileges, or beliefs. This state of mind is not common, but it is essential for right thinking. Where it is absent discussion is apt to become worse than useless." Leo Tolstoy

"Do not try to teach pigs to sing. It will frustrate you and infuriate the pigs who will unite in anger against you, and you will never achieve singing your song". Dr. Petersen
bluedog

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Reply with quote  #29 

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/03/17/opinion/main3944215.shtml


Quote:
Senator Obama and some of his supporters have made the plea that he not be made “guilty by association.” What people are asking for is not guilt but responsibility by association -- especially an association this long, this deep, this important.

And on the matter of “guilt by association,” here’s a thought experiment. Assume that the spiritual leader and pastor of the church George W. Bush or John McCain attended was, say, a white supremacist or an anti-gay bigot. Do you think that there would be any hesitancy among the press to push the “guilt by association” storyline? I rather doubt it.
 


Quote:
Senator Obama has been a member of Trinity United Church of Christ since the early 1990s. Are we supposed to believe that the kind of venom and vivid hatred that we have all seen on display -- that God should damn rather than bless America, that this country created AIDS in an effort to foster genocide, that we had 9/11 coming to us, that America is the “U.S. of K.K.K.A.” and that Israel is a terrorist state -- is an anomaly for Wright? That the overwhelming majority of his sermons are expositions on the love of Christ and the need to break down the dividing walls between us? That Obama was utterly shocked to see Wright’s words strung together on cable TV? That he has seen a side of Wright in the last week that he never knew existed?

This is a pastor, after all, who traveled to Libya in 1984 to visit Muammar Qadhafi with Louis Farrakhan and presented a lifetime achievement award to Farrakhan only last year, calling the Nation of Islam leader a man of “integrity and honesty” and referring to him as “one of the 20th and 21st century greats of the African-American religious experience.”
  

 
They call them terrorists, I call them freedom fighters.
Quote by Louis Farrakhan

The Jews don't like Farrakhan, so they call me Hitler. Well, that's a good name. Hitler was a very great man.
Louis Farrakhan


indyrun

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Reply with quote  #30 

You really love to wallow in the repubican muck, don't you bd.

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