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Dewey

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Reply with quote  #31 
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldscout
We need an INFORMED public, vigilant voters...


oldscout - Using the GOP right wing perspective, I have my doubts as to exactly what this means.

We live in an age with multiple cable channels debating the politics of the day on a regular basis.  We have morning shows, night shows, and weekend shows.  We have political pundits, news anchors, commentators, etc.  We have TV, we have radio.  There's print media, an abundance of authors, and, thanks to the Internet, bloggers and bloggers and bloggers.  And we have the Miscellaneous section here bantering back and forth.  These are all sources for informing, debating, and persuading.

Persuasion?  Well, maybe not anymore.  At least not for those who fight for the Conservative cause.  If you're able to be persuaded, you can go home.

In the Democratic Party, we have pro life and pro choice members.  We have a President who is against same sex marriage, at odds with his Party.  We have hawks, we have doves.  We have fiscal Conservatives too.  Yes, this Party is open to members willing to listen and compromise.  We do have members open to persuasion. 

No longer will it be just Democrat vs Republican.  It's going to be persuadable versus unpersuadable.  If you're a Republican and persuaded to raise some taxes, (Bush I), bye, bye.  If you're willing to compromise on immigration reform, (McCain), do so at your own peril.  Thought you were pro choice, (Romney), get over it.  If you think a financial stimulus will help your Country, (Bennett), adios.  Today, if you're going to serve as a Republican, you better vote this way or they'll show you the highway.

No oldscout, the right wing of the GOP isn't looking for a vigilant voter, they want lockstep.  Informed voters?  I think this actually means know if your Representative voted for each and every issue the "right" way each and every time.  The last thing this movement wants is for a reasonable person, with a desire to serve, to be elected, become educated about the problems of this Country, compromise, and/or possibly be persuaded by debate, (you see that's what they do up there, debate).  You think you saw gridlock before?  You ain't seen nothing yet.  


JackDandy

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Reply with quote  #32 
Dewey, an informed and intelligent public, would vote in lock step with the right wing. It would be the best thing for our country.


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Jack Dandy
JackDandy

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Reply with quote  #33 

indy, you are probably thinking of "goose step" as in the days of Hitler. And since we are on the subject, you should watch the Time Life Series "World at War" and see how Hitler came to power. There was a recession, a scapegoat that could be wrongfully demonized, a willing accomplice in the media, people were scared about the future, and a very convincing articulate politician who knew the right things to say. Not saying there are any similarities with anyone we know of, but it was just interesting to me.


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Jack Dandy
oldscout

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Reply with quote  #34 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewey
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldscout
We need an INFORMED public, vigilant voters...


oldscout - Using the GOP right wing perspective, I have my doubts as to exactly what this means.

We live in an age with multiple cable channels debating the politics of the day on a regular basis.  We have morning shows, night shows, and weekend shows.  We have political pundits, news anchors, commentators, etc.  We have TV, we have radio.  There's print media, an abundance of authors, and, thanks to the Internet, bloggers and bloggers and bloggers.  And we have the Miscellaneous section here bantering back and forth.  These are all sources for informing, debating, and persuading.

Persuasion?  Well, maybe not anymore.  At least not for those who fight for the Conservative cause.  If you're able to be persuaded, you can go home.

In the Democratic Party, we have pro life and pro choice members.  We have a President who is against same sex marriage, at odds with his Party.  We have hawks, we have doves.  We have fiscal Conservatives too.  Yes, this Party is open to members willing to listen and compromise.  We do have members open to persuasion. 

No longer will it be just Democrat vs Republican.  It's going to be persuadable versus unpersuadable.  If you're a Republican and persuaded to raise some taxes, (Bush I), bye, bye.  If you're willing to compromise on immigration reform, (McCain), do so at your own peril.  Thought you were pro choice, (Romney), get over it.  If you think a financial stimulus will help your Country, (Bennett), adios.  Today, if you're going to serve as a Republican, you better vote this way or they'll show you the highway.

No oldscout, the right wing of the GOP isn't looking for a vigilant voter, they want lockstep.  Informed voters?  I think this actually means know if your Representative voted for each and every issue the "right" way each and every time.  The last thing this movement wants is for a reasonable person, with a desire to serve, to be elected, become educated about the problems of this Country, compromise, and/or possibly be persuaded by debate, (you see that's what they do up there, debate).  You think you saw gridlock before?  You ain't seen nothing yet.  


Actually my post was about what I thought we needed in this country-don't think I said anything about Republicans or Democrats. If you don't think we need to be informed,vigilant voters...okie dokie.

By the way,I have heard /read your post or rant on the so-called movement on several programs & articles.It is getting old.

Got a question for you...have you ever voted for a Republican?


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Terry Schneider
" Fear not tomorrow, God is already there ".
oldscout

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Reply with quote  #35 
Quote:
Originally Posted by indyrun

Jack - that comment couldn't have come from one that would have surprised me less - afraid that you're a "scary snap" of the far right, in a nut shell.

Indy-why don't you just debate a little with Jack,maybe a little good old back-forth...why the names or is that just your view of all conservatives?

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Terry Schneider
" Fear not tomorrow, God is already there ".
Dewey

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Reply with quote  #36 

oldscout - C'mon.  Getting old?  I don't think I've ever started a "negative" thread regarding Conservatives and you're calling my posts old?  I'm just a fish taking the bait.  Yes, I do believe voters should be informed.  I also think our Representatives should be free to think and adjust for the good of the Country and it appears that's not going to be the case if you're Republican.  Old or not, what specific part of my post do you find inaccurate?   

oldscout

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Reply with quote  #37 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewey

oldscout - C'mon.  Getting old?  I don't think I've ever started a "negative" thread regarding Conservatives and you're calling my posts old?  I'm just a fish taking the bait.  Yes, I do believe voters should be informed.  I also think our Representatives should be free to think and adjust for the good of the Country and it appears that's not going to be the case if you're Republican.  Old or not, what specific part of my post do you find inaccurate?   

By old is that I meant I have heard all you are saying from the likes of Harry Reid,Pelosi,the media,etc,.....it's the new battle cry,"They are the party of NO", I'm surprised you didn't say we all have TANS.

By the way, I have Republican friends that are pro choice,gay & for legal immigration,have many of them who think we should not have went into Iraq & should bring all the soldiers home.....believe it or not there are black Republicans & Hispanic Republicans[ I have very good friends that are].....oh my,where do you come up with your ideas?


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Terry Schneider
" Fear not tomorrow, God is already there ".
oldscout

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Reply with quote  #38 

Good Night...it is way past this oldscouts bed time.....I'm going to go to bed & count elephants until I fall to sleep.


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Terry Schneider
" Fear not tomorrow, God is already there ".
Dewey

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Reply with quote  #39 

Quote:
Originally Posted by oldscout

By the way, I have Republican friends that are pro choice,gay & for legal immigration,have many of them who think we should not have went into Iraq & should bring all the soldiers home.....believe it or not there are black Republicans & Hispanic Republicans[ I have very good friends that are].....oh my,where do you come up with your ideas?


I'm sure you do and I know there are Republicans like you describe.  The point I was trying to make is that these types are no longer eligible to run for office and Conservatives are not supposed to vote for them.  Unless one is 100% Conservative, they're unacceptable.  This attitude will certainly go a long way towards stifling debate in Congress.
JackDandy

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Reply with quote  #40 

Quote:
Originally Posted by indyrun
jd - god, are you frightening. I can only hope there really aren't many of "you" out there. Lock step - what does that remind one of?

Dewey - what a magnificent presentation.  You are needed, badly, right now.

Indyruns, you were the first to make the subtle implication/comparison to Hitler with your "lock step - what does that remind one of?" statement. So don't go gettin all righteous on us now.
We all know that you simply are not smart enough to debate me. That is why you rush to label everything as "hate" speech. That way you can claim moral superiority and thus decline to engage in debate with a "hater" as it would be beneath you.
By the way, I seriously doubt that this is the first time you have had a filthy taste in your mouth. This is very common for those who have their head up their arse.

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When Communism comes to America it will be wrapped in an empty suit and promising hope and change.

Jack Dandy
oldscout

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Reply with quote  #41 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewey

Quote:
Originally Posted by oldscout

By the way, I have Republican friends that are pro choice,gay & for legal immigration,have many of them who think we should not have went into Iraq & should bring all the soldiers home.....believe it or not there are black Republicans & Hispanic Republicans[ I have very good friends that are].....oh my,where do you come up with your ideas?



I'm sure you do and I know there are Republicans like you describe.  The point I was trying to make is that these types are no longer eligible to run for office and Conservatives are not supposed to vote for them.  Unless one is 100% Conservative, they're unacceptable.  This attitude will certainly go a long way towards stifling debate in Congress.
IMO,the Republican party itself has been put on notice by many of the recent primaries.The Delaware one,basically informed the leaders of the Republican party that the people are tired of the " old rhinos " & the so-called elite running this country.

Yes,there are many in the Republican party that think they belong to the ruling class & their time is coming to an end.They are no better than the great number of elites/ruling class that you have in the Democrat party.
I thought the election of the O'Donnell lady showed that most Republicans are tired of the Karl Roves & Dick Morris types telling us what is right.

A big difference I see between you & I is that I'm tired of Gov telling me what to do &I am really tired of these career politicians telling me I have to do this & that,but they will go on their merry way & do the opposite.You will defend to death the likes of Pelosi,Reid,etc.[Dems have so many] & I want to see them out on the street.
And getting more elected with strict conservative values, I am for that.
Hey,maybe the people in Delaware are tired of the elites as well & O'Donnell's election was a "Throw the bums out " vote & they will do the same to Coon's[ a life long politician/or Harry Reids PET],always a chance.

Never did answer my Q, if you have ever voted for a Republican?

AND, you talk about the Republican's ,how about Jerry Brown for Gov of Ca?

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Terry Schneider
" Fear not tomorrow, God is already there ".
Softballfanatic

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Reply with quote  #42 
And the Democrats are any better? How many of them voted for the Health Care bill without reading it and therefore truly knowing what was in it? Is that not marching in Lock-step to the calls of your leader? How many of them were persuaded to vote for it by back room deals? How many of them were persuaded to vote for it because they were threatened with no party support in the upcoming election? Those are all the kind of people I want running my country.

Old Scout--I will freely admit that I have voted for democrats many times! I thought they were the best candidate. I even voted for Barbara Boxer once! That tells you how bad I must have thought the Republican candidate was!

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Dewey

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Reply with quote  #43 

oldscout - I wasn't very political prior to 92.  In 88, I voted for Bush I.  In 1992, I voted for Bill Clinton and the attacks he endured while in office solidified my position as a Democrat.  I'm all for an anything goes campaign but once the election is over, it's over.  The Right never let up on President Clinton, (whitewater, etc.), and I looked at it as if the Repubs couldn't win my vote so they chose to try and cancel it out by investigating him throughout his term.  I was personally offended.  Combine that experience with personal views that line up with the Democrats and a Republican would have a hard time getting my vote today.   

GoHawks

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Reply with quote  #44 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewey

oldscout - I wasn't very political prior to 92.  In 88, I voted for Bush I.  In 1992, I voted for Bill Clinton and the attacks he endured while in office solidified my position as a Democrat.  I'm all for an anything goes campaign but once the election is over, it's over.  The Right never let up on President Clinton, (whitewater, etc.), and I looked at it as if the Repubs couldn't win my vote so they chose to try and cancel it out by investigating him throughout his term.  I was personally offended.  Combine that experience with personal views that line up with the Democrats and a Republican would have a hard time getting my vote today.   

I think this line of thought applies to a TON of people.  My contempt for republicans really began then, with the impeachment having nothing to do with Paula Jones or Lewinski or lying to Congress.  It was simply republicans trying to undo an election.  Even though Jim Leach, Iowa City's republican rep at the time was someone I could have voted for, after he voted for impeachment he lost all my respect.

And as much as the tea party may think otherwise, the Republican Party has moved WAY to the right since then.  I have no doubt we would see another impeachment attempt were repubs to control congress next year.  Most of them already believe Obama wasn't born in the US.
oldscout

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Reply with quote  #45 
Voted for a few Dems myself,2 years ago for Ike Skelton in Mizzo.
I thought as a whole that things went pretty good under Clinton,but I lost a great deal of respect for him with Monica episode,sorry that's just me....probably the same reason I would never vote for Newt.

Dewey & Go hawks, appreciate your perspective, I do think the statement that MOST Republicans in congress think Obama was not born in the USA is a little far out.

While we are talking politics, I got an email this am from a buddy, who claims in the HC bill there is a 3.8% real estate sales tax that will be applied to the sales of real estate,including your home...beginning in 2013. I hope that is not true,does anyone know the facts on that one.

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Terry Schneider
" Fear not tomorrow, God is already there ".
GoYard

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Reply with quote  #46 
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldscout

While we are talking politics, I got an email this am from a buddy, who claims in the HC bill there is a 3.8% real estate sales tax that will be applied to the sales of real estate,including your home...beginning in 2013. I hope that is not true,does anyone know the facts on that one.


The internet is a great resource, but is also responsible for a flood of false information about our current President, his administration, and recent legislation.  And sadly, most people believe everything they read in an email, regardless of the source, regardless of its anonymity, and without ever checking out the real facts.

This one is 99.9% FALSE.  As the following article explains, a tiny percentage of taxpayers could be subject to this new MEDICARE (not sales) tax on the sale of their home.  The email going around is not accurate.

Medicare tax on investment income
GoYard

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Reply with quote  #47 
What infuriates me is the hypocrisy of what's going on in Washington right now.  The fiscal conservative Republicans scream about deficits and spending, yet it was a Republican-controlled Congress that passed the Bush tax cuts, at a cost estimated to be up to $2.5 TRILLION over the last 9 years (much more than the estimated cost of health care reform) and made them effective for less than 10 years, so that they would not have to figure out how to pay for them. 

An excellent compendium of articles - pro and con - on extending the tax cuts can be found here:

Ending Bush tax cuts

oldscout

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Reply with quote  #48 
Go yD. Thanks for the last link,very good.
I do get a kick out of most all that they talk about the money like it is the Govs money & they will decide to give it to us or not...it's my money &they want to take more from me

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Terry Schneider
" Fear not tomorrow, God is already there ".
oldscout

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Reply with quote  #49 

Quote:
Originally Posted by oldscout
Go yD. Thanks for the last link,very good.
I do get a kick out of most all that they talk about the money like it is the Govs money & they will decide to give it to us or not...it's my money &they want to take more from me
Did read an article that gave the definition of taxes;

A charge usually of money imposed by those of autority on persons property or earnings for public use.
Thus,they charge us,so it costs us.....Gov & media are always saying," Tax cuts cost the Gov X or Y.It doesn't cost them a dang thing,they are taking my/our hard earned money,which by the way, we didn't earn overnight.In many cases it took months or weeks of hard work or in case of IRA,maybe 40-50 years..

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Terry Schneider
" Fear not tomorrow, God is already there ".
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