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JackDandy

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Reply with quote  #1 

When someone makes too much money, I think it is a good idea for the government to take most of that money away from him and give it to someone who didn’t earn it. Because the one who earned it might spend it foolishly on cars, boats, houses, and stuff like that and then the people who build that stuff would have to go to work to build it, and who are we to tell people that they have to go to work?  

 


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Dewey

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Reply with quote  #2 

Leave it to the occasional wealthy individual to dwell upon "what could be" if it weren't for the needs of the not so wealthy.

oldscout

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Reply with quote  #3 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewey

Leave it to the occasional wealthy individual to dwell upon "what could be" if it weren't for the needs of the not so wealthy.

Dew- If I agreed with you we would both be wrong.

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Terry Schneider
" Fear not tomorrow, God is already there ".
Dewey

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Reply with quote  #4 

oldscout - Believe it or not, they're out there. I bet you've met a couple.

JoiseyGuy

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Reply with quote  #5 
Just study laissez faire capitalist philosophy, and then decide upon the resultant stewardship of the fortunate toward those less fortunate (it is inevitable that the flow of wealth via entrepreneurship will be upward) , and you will have your answer concerning how you view distribution of wealth. There will always be those who are the haves, and they possess the power to literally decide how those less fortunate should live economically.

The nation might be in economic turmoil, but as long as the Dow is healthy, those in power will declare a healthy economy while the worker starves.

PS - The real question then becomes, "What is the role of government in distribution of wealth, and what are the minimal 'rights' of citizens to enjoy the benefits of society?".
In essence, what kind of a democracy are we running here, and what are the rights of ALL of its citizens?

PPS - Then again, one could have a simplistic perspective that whatever puts a dollar in my pocket is good, and whatever takes one out is bad.

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"Freethinkers are those who are willing to use their minds without prejudice and without fearing to understand things that clash with their own customs, privileges, or beliefs. This state of mind is not common, but it is essential for right thinking. Where it is absent discussion is apt to become worse than useless." Leo Tolstoy

"Do not try to teach pigs to sing. It will frustrate you and infuriate the pigs who will unite in anger against you, and you will never achieve singing your song". Dr. Petersen
oldscout

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Reply with quote  #6 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewey

oldscout - Believe it or not, they're out there. I bet you've met a couple.

I also know many people that make $200-300 grand a year that do a lot for our economy.....run a business that employs people,give to charitable events & oganiztions, buy things for their business,etc.,etc.

These so called " RICH PEOPLE " are what makes this country what it is today. They will be hurt by the taxes & over regulations. I have a friend with a small bank,that is going to have to add 2 people just to keep up with all the new regulations. He will have to raise fees or lay off a teller or two in order to do this.
I can hear Obama now saying [a 1000times],no one making under $250K a year will pay more in taxes & even though lately I hear him say $200K, neither is true if the Bush tax cuts expire......even somone making $50K will pay more.
Why do I never hear a word from any of you on cutting spending,Thats what I have had to do....why shouldn't the Gov?

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Terry Schneider
" Fear not tomorrow, God is already there ".
Dewey

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Reply with quote  #7 

Quote:
Originally Posted by oldscout
I also know many people that make $200-300 grand a year that do a lot for our economy.....


You won't get any argument from me regarding this.  I was just responding to a post ridiculing our progressive tax system.  Redistribution...redistribution...redistribution.  I've just worn tired from that mantra.  JD's post had little to do with spending other than complaining that the wealthy are sometimes inhibited, (in his mind), from doing more of it. 
oldscout

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Reply with quote  #8 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewey

Quote:
Originally Posted by oldscout
I also know many people that make $200-300 grand a year that do a lot for our economy.....


You won't get any argument from me regarding this.  I was just responding to a post ridiculing our progressive tax system.  Redistribution...redistribution...redistribution.  I've just worn tired from that mantra.  JD's post had little to do with spending other than complaining that the wealthy are sometimes inhibited, (in his mind), from doing more of it. 

I guess the Q is -do you think we should raise their taxes? My one good friend says he has no Idea what is coming. He runs 2 successful restaurants/bars & has cut back people & works full time himself now,before he employed 3 more people.....he asked my advice, I told him I have zero clue.

He told me he has to file a form for EVERY transaction, payment, etc.of $600 or some crazy thing like that....takes him 3-4 extra hours per week


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Terry Schneider
" Fear not tomorrow, God is already there ".
Dewey

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Reply with quote  #9 
oldscout - "Be afraid" and "I don't have a clue what is coming".  Those are the talking points from some of our Conservative friends and the right wing media.  It's simple, President Bush passed a tax cut good through 2010.  2010 is almost over and the tax rates will return to 39.6% for the top earners, same as they were under President Clinton.  Your friends, and others, have known for years what was coming.

As for the rest, I'm self employed and I don't know what your friend is talking about.  Maybe I'm just not up on the law.
GoHawks

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Reply with quote  #10 
Where I come from $300K is rich!   The Bush tax cuts were for all, but only the highest earners are having their rolled back.  You won't hear the second half of that sentence on Fox.  Those tax cuts were supposed to help the economy right?  Smart to drastically cut taxes during a recession and two wars, right??  Well, the stimulous is the only thing that's kept us out of depression.

That and the bailout of the banks.  More regulations (and enforcement of ones already on the books) are what keeps banks from taking our money - keep energy companies from polluting the environment and having their rigs explode - keep airplanes from falling out of the sky - keep our cars' brakes from failing - keep drugs and medical devices from killing us instead of healing us.  To hear the teabaggers you'd think the government makes up regulations just to annoy companies.

What always makes me shake my head are the idiot teabaggers with their stupidass hats railing on regulations.  The teaparty is funded and was founded my giant corporations who don't want the regulations.  Regulations that protect those teabaggers making $50K.
spazsdad

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Reply with quote  #11 
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoHawks
Where I come from $300K is rich!   The Bush tax cuts were for all, but only the highest earners are having their rolled back.  You won't hear the second half of that sentence on Fox.  Those tax cuts were supposed to help the economy right?  Smart to drastically cut taxes during a recession and two wars, right??  Actually it is. Tax rates were cut which has been shown time and time again to increase tax revenue. Well, the stimulous is the only thing that's kept us out of depression.

That and the bailout of the banks.  More regulations (and enforcement of ones already on the books) are what keeps banks from taking our money  but it is ok for Barney Frank and Chris Dodd to line their pockets on the backs of millions, the so called "regulators" that were supposed to protect  - keep energy companies from polluting the environment and having their rigs explode - keep airplanes from falling out of the sky - keep our cars' brakes from failing - keep drugs and medical devices from killing us instead of healing us.  Do you really believe that it is in any of those companies best interest to kill off their customers?? To hear the teabaggers you'd think the government makes up regulations just to annoy companies.

What always makes me shake my head are the idiot teabaggers with their stupidass hats railing on regulations.  The teaparty is funded and was founded my giant corporations who don't want the regulations.  Regulations that protect those teabaggers making $50K.

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Dewey

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Reply with quote  #12 

Quote:
Originally Posted by spazsdad
Actually it is. Tax rates were cut which has been shown time and time again to increase tax revenue.

I commented on this theory once before.  It this were actually true, we need not worry about debt passed down to our children and grandchildren.  They will obviously just cut their tax rates so the Government can increase revenue and pay off any debt we leave them.  That should be easy enough.
GoYard

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Reply with quote  #13 
Maybe..... maybe not.....

Lower Taxes, Higher Revenue?


oldscout

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Reply with quote  #14 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewey

Quote:
Originally Posted by spazsdad
Actually it is. Tax rates were cut which has been shown time and time again to increase tax revenue.

I commented on this theory once before.  It this were actually true, we need not worry about debt passed down to our children and grandchildren.  They will obviously just cut their tax rates so the Government can increase revenue and pay off any debt we leave them.  That should be easy enough.

Lower taxes & CUT SPENDING...has to be both.

Bush was just as guilty of spending as Obama.

As I said earlier,never hear those on the left talk about cutting spending.

Are you telling me if they increase taxes that they will apply it ALL to deficit?
They will just spend more,you know it & I know it.

Gohawk-Where do you get your info from Ed Schultz.....you sure sound like it's either Mr Ed or maybe Keith Olberman[ couple of fine gentleman]

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Terry Schneider
" Fear not tomorrow, God is already there ".
oldscout

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Reply with quote  #15 

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoYard
Maybe..... maybe not.....

Lower Taxes, Higher Revenue?


One thing for sure..a larger Government will not grow the economy.....if they do,it will only be short lived like " Cash for Klunkers" or $8000 to home buyers.

Before you ask me to sight my source, this is IMHO.


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Terry Schneider
" Fear not tomorrow, God is already there ".
oldscout

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Reply with quote  #16 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewey
oldscout - "Be afraid" and "I don't have a clue what is coming".  Those are the talking points from some of our Conservative friends and the right wing media.  It's simple, President Bush passed a tax cut good through 2010.  2010 is almost over and the tax rates will return to 39.6% for the top earners, same as they were under President Clinton.  Your friends, and others, have known for years what was coming.

As for the rest, I'm self employed and I don't know what your friend is talking about.  Maybe I'm just not up on the law.
Dewey- Assume you are talking about FNC & Talk Radio on the talking points,because it wouldn't be ABC,NBC,CBS,MSNBC,CNN,ETC. that all seem to be on your side.

Just becausewe knew the tax cuts ended 2010,makes it right?

On the extra paperwork my friend has to do, I'll be seeing him in couple of weeks & will ask him,he does employ 40-50 people or did, maybe has something to do with that.

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Terry Schneider
" Fear not tomorrow, God is already there ".
GoYard

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Reply with quote  #17 
I think many on the left have been advocating to get out of Iraq & Afghanistan to cut spending.....
GoYard

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Reply with quote  #18 
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldscout

He told me he has to file a form for EVERY transaction, payment, etc.of $600 or some crazy thing like that....takes him 3-4 extra hours per week



This MIGHT be what he's talking about - although this provision doesn't kick in until 2012.  I don't know of any other requirement for such forms, other than annual 1099 forms to independent contractors that are paid more than $600.

1099s

Not sure how this could EVER be enforced.  Compliance will be very, very low....
JackDandy

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Reply with quote  #19 

Picka card.... any card


__________________
When Communism comes to America it will be wrapped in an empty suit and promising hope and change.

Jack Dandy
GoYard

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Reply with quote  #20 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dinger

Watch out GoHawks - you used an unforgivable word to describe the "tea party" people. Of course - its all about getting government out of their life....until they cash their SS check, or get their diabetic supplies through Medicare... 



Exactly...........!!!
Dewey

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Reply with quote  #21 

Quote:
Originally Posted by oldscout

As I said earlier,never hear those on the left talk about cutting spending.


oldscout - With all due respect, suggesting our Government is too big and spends too much is an overused, quite vague, and almost meaningless criticism.

There are some who believe the Bush administration spent too much money fighting aids in Africa.  I don't.  There are many that say we spend too much in the area of Defense.  Many will disagree.  One can find numerous people who believe we spend too much on the elderly.  The elderly probably think otherwise.  Veteran's care, cancer research, border security, and pay for teachers, just to name a few, are all significantly underfunded.  To say this Country spends too much is little more than political babble.

As others on the Right like to ask around here, what is the right amount to spend?  What percent of GDP should expenditures be?  Should it be higher during lean times and lower when the economy is booming?  Should revenue be increased or spending cut?  The answers are all so much deeper than those who criticize allow for.

I know, you can't keep spending more than you earn.  But we didn't have to slash the rate of revenue growth, (Bush tax cuts), just when we balanced the budget.  We can't spend billions helping the citizens of Iraq and then ask our elderly and lower income earners to bear the burden.  And we can't just ignore the needs of this Country because some run around saying the Government is too big.  Instead, we'll approach each of these issues individually, without concern for the "sky is falling" or "we're too big" daily chants, and deal with them as we do all other serious issues.  I have to wonder...if we're way too big and spend way too much, how come we are easily the greatest and wealthiest Country on the planet?       
JoiseyGuy

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Reply with quote  #22 
Dewey - If we simply reduced (can't eliminate) waste and economic corruption in government, that would be the type of government reduction in spending that I would support wholeheartedly. Our governments lack effective oversight, and thus are wide open to corruption and personal and general pocket lining.
__________________
"Freethinkers are those who are willing to use their minds without prejudice and without fearing to understand things that clash with their own customs, privileges, or beliefs. This state of mind is not common, but it is essential for right thinking. Where it is absent discussion is apt to become worse than useless." Leo Tolstoy

"Do not try to teach pigs to sing. It will frustrate you and infuriate the pigs who will unite in anger against you, and you will never achieve singing your song". Dr. Petersen
oldscout

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Reply with quote  #23 
Dewey- looks like our friend in the WH might renew a few expired breaks for small business that had expired, offer some tax breaks & MAYBE even suggest that the Bush Tax cuts be extended for all but the rich[what is rich tbd],but saw no mention of any cuts.....I guess they are going to pay for by closing some corporate loopholes doing with overseas profits.

Always funny to me that when Gov spends on a new program or entitlement, that they pay for it by closing loopholes or clamping down on those abusing our current programs....wonder why they are not doing these things as part of their normal operation.

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Terry Schneider
" Fear not tomorrow, God is already there ".
oldscout

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Reply with quote  #24 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dinger

Watch out GoHawks - you used an unforgivable word to describe the "tea party" people. Of course - its all about getting government out of their life....until they cash their SS check, or get their diabetic supplies through Medicare... 

What bugs me about GoHawks words is that I wore my straw hat to the last teaparty rally here,the one that has likeness of Herky The Hawk on it....what a dumbass

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Terry Schneider
" Fear not tomorrow, God is already there ".
JackDandy

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Posts: 850
Reply with quote  #25 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dinger

Watch out GoHawks - you used an unforgivable word to describe the "tea party" people. Of course - its all about getting government out of their life....until they cash their SS check, or get their diabetic supplies through Medicare... 


Dinger doesn't realize that people pay into Social Security and Medicare for over 50 years so that Social Security check they receive is already their money. The government confiscated it from us and promised to hold it for our retirement.  

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When Communism comes to America it will be wrapped in an empty suit and promising hope and change.

Jack Dandy
Dewey

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Reply with quote  #26 

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoiseyGuy
Dewey - If we simply reduced (can't eliminate) waste and economic corruption in government, that would be the type of government reduction in spending that I would support wholeheartedly.


JG - I suspect the citizens of this Country are in unanimous agreement with you.  If you applied this same principle to Corporations, I suspect shareholders would agree unanimously too.  
JoiseyGuy

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Reply with quote  #27 
Dewey - I think that the demonizing and vitriol in campaigning is way out of hand. Furthermore, I believe that Party members no longer care about or work for what is good for our nation, but rather they simply oppose the opposite Party within our governmental structure without a thought to the validity of their stance. It's all (almost completely) about winning the next election, certainly not because it's good for my nation. The game is played by taking constant media and governmental pot shots at the Party in power and disturbing any effectiveness that they might have. Elections have become the time to vote against someone instead of for someone. Sad !!!!
__________________
"Freethinkers are those who are willing to use their minds without prejudice and without fearing to understand things that clash with their own customs, privileges, or beliefs. This state of mind is not common, but it is essential for right thinking. Where it is absent discussion is apt to become worse than useless." Leo Tolstoy

"Do not try to teach pigs to sing. It will frustrate you and infuriate the pigs who will unite in anger against you, and you will never achieve singing your song". Dr. Petersen
TheHammer

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Reply with quote  #28 
did any of you watch ' 60 minutes ' concerning corruption in Medicare.
if Medicare was run as other health insurance companies would there be as much corruption? is this not the problem with all government companies, no one cares.

indyrun

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Reply with quote  #29 

Hammer - I'm sorry, and I REALLY "try" to understand your posts, but there are times (this most recent example) when I have NO idea what you are trying to say.

Dewey

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Reply with quote  #30 

What is interesting to me is that private companies and individuals are the ones who take advantage of, and often cheat, our government programs out of money but the Government and our government workers catch all the ridicule. 

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