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TheNarrator

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Reply with quote  #31 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurosawa


Yes, the compliance office at the school or department at the NCAA have nothing to do with what are more likely to be civil rights, not compliance, issues. Body shaming, sexual harassment, etc., can be infractions of Title IX, which is enforced by the Office of Civil Rights (although, under Trump, I expect it will be neutered).


Another uneducated member of the left.  Title IX was signed into law by a republican President.
CoachB25

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Reply with quote  #32 
I apologize for not "getting it."  If someone were abusing my child, there would be hell to pay.  After that, she would be playing at another school.  Are there reasons a player can't leave for another program?  

IMO, you would be hard pressed to get people to show up and testify in a court of law.  They might say they would to you.  When an actual lawyer gets involved and the thought that statements will be taken under oath, that changes a lot of people's minds.  

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Those mountains in front of you will seem like little hills when you are beyond them and they are in the past!
Kurosawa

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Reply with quote  #33 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheNarrator


Another uneducated member of the left.  Title IX was signed into law by a republican President.


Ya sure, ya betcha. Educate yourself:

http://www.campussafetymagazine.com/clery/department-education-justice-trump-title-ix-enforcement-office-civil-rights/

http://deadspin.com/proposed-trump-budget-would-cripple-the-overworked-offi-1795661747

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-administration-plans-to-minimize-civil-rights-efforts-in-agencies/2017/05/29/922fc1b2-39a7-11e7-a058-ddbb23c75d82_story.html

http://www.theroot.com/trump-s-doj-civil-rights-pick-defended-corporations-aga-1796602774

http://www.colorlines.com/articles/these-three-federal-civil-rights-offices-are-trouble
CoachB25

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Reply with quote  #34 
Your links reference things like bathrooms.  I didn't see one mention of athletics.  One link was on cuts to departments and every department is undergoing cuts.  One of your links uses CNN as its references and they are not reliable as a news source.  So, there is all of that.  If I have made a mistake and those links reference athletics, I will apologize.  
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Those mountains in front of you will seem like little hills when you are beyond them and they are in the past!
Fresh

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Reply with quote  #35 
Since when is CNN not reliable as a news source?
3leftturns

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Reply with quote  #36 
Some LCD stuff, that shade
WWCDD

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Reply with quote  #37 
I agree about pursuing this through Title IX. It is actually the initial advice given to us and the foundation is well laid.  Trying through compliance, AD, NCAA was a diversion that didn't yield anything.
So, time to go back to Title IX.
It doesn't matter if anyone else shows up at courts: the case itself will be on record.
And enough cases going to court will eventually be the red flag needed to warn all others.
(There is a long line of former players willing to share their experience who are now unaffected by the prospect of having 'playtime' or other consequences).

Colleges and AD's need to do due diligence before hiring coaches.  Parents/athletes should too.
In this situation, it's as you say: current players and parents clam up in public and bitterly complain in private.  A group action by the team was thwarted with huge promises which won't come true next season but I'm pretty sure Coach (and Ass. Coach) will jump ship by then because the team will see that the promises weren't kept. 

Yes, threats were also made about how small of a world softball is...which is a double edged sword.


CoachB25

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Reply with quote  #38 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fresh
Since when is CNN not reliable as a news source?


Since their "news stories" have been discredit so often.  Since they have constantly and consistently had to issue retractions, fire staff, ...  Since they have at least two talking heads who have now admitted that the Russia controversy is a 'nothing burger" aimed at ratings.  Hey, maybe actually know what is going on and you'd see that they shill for the Democrat Party and are not a reliable source of news.  

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Those mountains in front of you will seem like little hills when you are beyond them and they are in the past!
1janiedough

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Reply with quote  #39 
Quote:
Originally Posted by PDad

Based on article linked by OP in first post on UCS, appears to be talking about Jaime Wohlbach at East Stroudsburg Univ. Jaime was fired by Delaware mid 2015 season and hired by ESU in Dec 2015.

Article linked by OP: http://www.delawareonline.com/story/sports/college/2015/04/13/ud-softball-coach-wohlback-fired-mid-season/25741339/

Subsequent article: http://www.delawareonline.com/story/sports/college/ud/2015/04/15/firing-ud-softball-coach-support-sides/25840307/
 



Thanks PDad.
1janiedough

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Reply with quote  #40 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ultsoftballparent
My point is most student athletes are getting conned and manipulated into thinking they need to put up with the abuse.  



Really?  Most?  Conned and manipulated?  Gtfo.
EarlyGrayce

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Reply with quote  #41 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ulthelicopterparent
My point is most student athletes are getting conned and manipulated into thinking they need to put up with the abuse.  


You seem neurotic. 

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Prowler

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Reply with quote  #42 
I'd like to know specifics of exactly what, in this case, the OP considers abusive behavior.
Fresh

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Reply with quote  #43 
Quote:
Originally Posted by CoachB25


Since their "news stories" have been discredit so often.  Since they have constantly and consistently had to issue retractions, fire staff, ...  Since they have at least two talking heads who have now admitted that the Russia controversy is a 'nothing burger" aimed at ratings.  Hey, maybe actually know what is going on and you'd see that they shill for the Democrat Party and are not a reliable source of news.  


Give me examples. I'd say Fox has many more instances of scandal and misreporting. How many CNN staff reporters fired? Talking heads are not news, you must understand the difference in news and opinion. They definitely run a lot of news counter to the Liartrump cause, but that doesn't make them liars. Until Mueller's report comes out, we will not know the extent of Liartrumps staff collusion with the Russians. He had no plan for health care. No plan for restructuring our tax system. No plans for anything, just rhetoric condemning the Obama administration. He is finding out now how hard it is to see the world in black and white terms. He purely plays to his pit bull constituency. 
bluedog

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Reply with quote  #44 
Anyone who doesn't admit CNN is a fake news operation is a lost soul............

Seriously!!

Fox is our only chance to get some truth when it comes to politics.............All the others are spewing trash and lies.............With CNN leading the way!

The CNN warm bodies look scared on TV...........Like their days to stay on TV are numbered...........
CoachB25

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Posts: 177
Reply with quote  #45 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fresh


Give me examples. I'd say Fox has many more instances of scandal and misreporting. How many CNN staff reporters fired? Talking heads are not news, you must understand the difference in news and opinion. They definitely run a lot of news counter to the Liartrump cause, but that doesn't make them liars. Until Mueller's report comes out, we will not know the extent of Liartrumps staff collusion with the Russians. He had no plan for health care. No plan for restructuring our tax system. No plans for anything, just rhetoric condemning the Obama administration. He is finding out now how hard it is to see the world in black and white terms. He purely plays to his pit bull constituency. 


Bold above.  If you haven't been up to date on what CNN has been doing, I won't be able to change your mind.  The 3 people recently fired is easy enough.  Van Jone's statement was just made about Russia being a "nothing burger."  Here is a decent read for you that I got from a Google search:

https://thefederalist.com/2017/06/29/cnns-latest-retraction-just-tip-fake-news-iceberg/

It won't change your mind but it is full of facts and not opinion.  The miscellaneous forum is the place for arguments such as this.  Jump over there and chime in if you would like.  I apologize to the OP for hijacking this thread.  

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Those mountains in front of you will seem like little hills when you are beyond them and they are in the past!
3leftturns

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Reply with quote  #46 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluedog
Anyone who doesn't admit CNN is a fake news operation is a lost soul............

Seriously!!

Fox is our only chance to get some truth when it comes to politics.............All the others are spewing trash and lies.............With CNN leading the way!

The CNN warm bodies look scared on TV...........Like their days to stay on TV are numbered...........
After a blessedly tranquil month, with you in your dunce corner, desperately trying to figure out how LSU just keeps finishing in the Top 5 nationally -- as you frantically stab your Dobson and Torina voodoo dolls.... you are back rolling out your antiquated K-Tel-caliber greatest hits
1janiedough

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Reply with quote  #47 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3leftturns
After a blessedly tranquil month, with you in your dunce corner, desperately trying to figure out how LSU just keeps finishing in the Top 5 nationally -- as you frantically stab your Dobson and Torina voodoo dolls.... you are back rolling out your antiquated K-Tel-caliber greatest hits



Oh my you brought K-Tel into the mix!  Awesome stuff lefty![biggrin]
SoftballFamily

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Posts: 30
Reply with quote  #48 
Well this discussion took a nosedive!  I think one page of discussion is all the people on this board can manage before it goes WAY off topic and disintegrates into name calling and general BS.  
Prowler

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Posts: 1,389
Reply with quote  #49 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoftballFamily
Well this discussion took a nosedive!  I think one page of discussion is all the people on this board can manage before it goes WAY off topic and disintegrates into name calling and general BS.  


Stop trying to change the subject. We're having a discussion about K-Tel here.
1janiedough

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Posts: 2,350
Reply with quote  #50 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prowler
Stop trying to change the subject. We're having a discussion about K-Tel here.


I lol'd!

Anywho, bluedog has a really bad habit of taking a discussion and ruining it with outside crap...and then refuses to stop.
3leftturns

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Reply with quote  #51 


Why Can't We Be Friends....loFl!!
3leftturns

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Posts: 10,748
Reply with quote  #52 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1janiedough


I lol'd!

Anywho, bluedog has a really bad habit of taking a discussion and ruining it with outside crap...and then refuses to stop.
Yes, with him, there is no sublety that works. Just like with his hero.

You purely need to employ the Chicago Way

WWCDD

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Reply with quote  #53 
https://www.womenssportsfoundation.org/advocate/title-ix-and-issues/title-ix-positions/addressing-issue-verbal-physical-psychological-abuse-athletes-foundation-position/

1) VERBAL ABUSE – The most commonly occurring type of abuse in sports includes
a) name calling,
b) hurtful comments regarding performance,
c) swearing at players or game officials, and
d) comments meant to demean a person’s integrity.
Examples:
a) Trainer to player: “Fatty, lose some weight so you can actually get down the court.”
b) Coach to team: “You all suck. I thought you were better than that, but I guess I was wrong.”
c) Any and all expletives.
d) Coach to player: “I hope you aren’t proud of yourself. You shouldn’t be.”
2) PSYCHOLOGICAL OR EMOTIONAL ABUSE – such as but not limited to:
a) having unrealistic goals or expectations of athletes,
b) keeping athletes from participating in games or practices because of assumed limits or underdeveloped skills,
c) issuing threats, or
d) continually making demeaning statements.
Examples:
a) A coach putting the success of a team on the shoulders of one “superstar.”
b) Before putting a non-starter in the game, a coach says, “I guess we will have to let you play, you’re the only one left.”
c) Coach to team: “If we lose any games this season, none of you will be invited back next year.”
3) PHYSICAL ABUSE –
a) When coaches use any type of hurtful touch causing physical pain;
b) The use of excessive exercise, denial of fluids and/or imparting unreasonable requests as a form of punishment or a way of
creating team discipline.
Examples:
a) Slapping, grabbing, spitting, shoving, hitting or throwing equipment.
b) A team loses and the coach demands that his or her players run around the track until they vomit or pass out.
c) Team returns late at night after an away contest and goes right to the gym for a punishment practice.
4) BULLYING – Bullying is a form of verbal, physical or psychological abuse and includes the deliberate, repeated and
sometimes health-endangering mistreatment of one or more persons (the target(s)) by a perpetrator (the bully) whose destructive
actions are fueled by the bully’s need to control the target(s).
Example:
Bullying is usually an ongoing physical or verbal mistreatment where a “game” of usurping control is an attempt to win while the
other loses. Bullying coaches or players may often target more passive players. When the assaulted person appears to be upset,
the bully often says things like, “What’s the big deal?” or “She asked for it.”
5) HAZING - Any activity expected by existing team members or coaches themselves of someone joining a team or to maintain
full status on a team that humiliates, degrades or risks emotional and/or physical harm, regardless of the person’s willingness to
participate.
Example:
Instances in which coaches or other players know about or are participants in any harmful or degrading initiation rituals involving
new players. Examples of these rituals include walking in cooked spaghetti, running through a line of players who mildly assault
the player, performing lewd acts or drinking excessive amounts of alcohol.
The development of any of the above disrespectful relationships between coaches and athletes, or athletes with other team
members, compromises the professional integrity of the program and the educational mission of athletics. Such situations
greatly increase the chances that an athlete may be personally exploited. Coaches exercise power over athletes, whether in giving
them praise or criticism, evaluating them, making recommendations that further their athletic goals or conferring any other
benefits on them. In the same way, some athletes may exert power over other athletes as a function of the bullying individual’s
status, such as standing with the coaching staff, school, sponsoring organization; playing time; media attention; or skill level.
The use of derogatory language and intentionally hurtful statements from coach to athlete or among athletes is wrong because
coaches and sponsoring schools have a professional responsibility for the players.

WOMEN’S SPORTS FOUNDATION POSITION STATEMENT:
ABUSE OF ATHLETES BY COACHES AND/OR PEERS
1. The verbal, physical or psychological abuse of athletes subverts the mission of sports organizations and educational
institutions to provide leadership and resources for the purpose of improving the physical, mental and emotional well-being of all
females through sport and physical activity participation.
2. Any type of abuse has debilitating consequences both for its victims and for the society as a whole. In the context of athletic
programs it lowers the self-esteem and limits the ability of participants to develop their full potential in sports and physical
activities. It impairs the future capacity of its victims to experience full athletic participation and to pursue employment and
leadership roles in athletics. This, in turn, deprives the society as a whole of the contributions of these individuals and damages
a genuine appreciation of participant’s athletic achievements and contributions.
3. Abusive behavior of coaches and/or teammates toward other players undermines the professionalism of organized sport,
taints the atmosphere of mutual trust and respect between coach and athlete and between teammates, and hinders the
fulfillment of the overall educational mission of athletics.
4. In some instances, abuse may expose a school to liability.
5. The Women’s Sports Foundation recognizes that this type of abuse occurs in sport as it does in other institutional contexts.
In order to effectively deal with cases of abuse in athletics, as well as to prevent future abuse of female athletes, the Foundation
encourages officers of sports governance bodies, athletic directors and school administrators to formulate policy guidelines and
procedures that include training, distribution of the policy and subsequent evaluation of its effectiveness.
TheNarrator

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Posts: 2,435
Reply with quote  #54 
Quote:
Originally Posted by WWCDD
2) PSYCHOLOGICAL OR EMOTIONAL ABUSE – such as but not limited to:
b) keeping athletes from participating in games or practices because of assumed limits or underdeveloped skills,


uh.....ok - go play rec ball
SoftballFamily

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Posts: 30
Reply with quote  #55 
Go play rec ball??  You condone this type of behavior on the part of a coach?? Seriously??  You want your daughter treated that way???  Would you tell her to basically suck it up, or get out?? After years of hard work, lessons, travel, and recruiting??  In other words, blame the victim.  Have you not read any of the other posts?? I really hate when people say "go play rec ball" or " then don't play the sport if you can't take the stress, etc"   These players are not in a position of strength against coaches who's tactics are detrimental the overall well being of the player, the team, or the university for which they work.  And - you took ONE example and make it appear as though the entire document is worthless.  FYI: this kind of verbal and emotional abuse takes place at ALL levels of college sports - D1 through D3 and NAIA.  I've seen it, I know other families and players who have dealt with it and these are not wimpy crybaby girls.  If you have made it to college level sports, you have had to have developed a thick skin.  We're talking about coaches in college who get their jollies giving crap to players for who knows what reason: maybe they love the power, they have personality traits where they enjoy making others feel like less than what they are, they are insecure in their own coaching abilities, or maybe they need to make themselves feel superior by making their other coaches and players feel inferior.  I have no idea - but I have witnessed this firsthand.  I doubt any player truly wants to be the one singled out and the subject of this type of abuse - but telling them to "go play rec ball" belittles what they are or have been experiencing.  
TheNarrator

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Posts: 2,435
Reply with quote  #56 
Lighten up Francis - I was referring to this quote only:
PSYCHOLOGICAL OR EMOTIONAL ABUSE – such as but not limited to:

b) keeping athletes from participating in games or practices because of assumed limits or underdeveloped skills,


If you think those with underdeveloped skills are entitled to the same number of practice reps and participation in games, then yes, rec ball is the place for you.
BStandby

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Posts: 9
Reply with quote  #57 
Well at least your back on topic, even if it is ridiculous.  You are right you are entitled to play. Every coach or AD is required to make your playing experience a good one for you.  Every boss needs to make sure they use "please" and "thank you" and "what do you think".  And all of them are required to make sure that every player in the organization is treated and coached exactly the way they want to be coached or treated.  The same would go for their professors, future jobs, spouses.  And when you have children of your own, or if you already do, everyone is required to take the above criteria and apply that to your child.

That ought to solve all the problems.



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Bob...
CoachB25

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Posts: 177
Reply with quote  #58 
Looks like the only acceptable alternative is for a coach to be a cheerleader.  One example for this statement is the verbal abuse comment about "hurtful comments."  Sue, you are being replaced in the 4th inning by Jean.  Coach why?  You didn't seem to be focused on the game.  Coach, that is a hurtful comment.  Another example would be a coach who makes some requirement such as a 7 minute mile a requirement to make the team.  "Coach, I can't run a 7 minute mile."  Coach, well there are reasons for that.  ... That was a hurtful comment and you set an unrealistic goal for me.  One more for the road, "Team, if we can't get more focused in practice, we are going to run."  Coach, that is bullying.  

My daughter played collegiate softball.  Sure there were times we, as parents, were upset.  Still, my daughter went in and talked to the coach about this or that and tried to take care of her teammates.  She was taught early on to speak up.  When she picked a college team and coach to play for, she did her homework and knew what to expect.  Hey, lets face it, sometimes this adversity is unjustified and coaches need to be fired.  Then again, sometimes our daughters need a kick in the butt.

I played in college for a hard ass.  I knew exactly what I was getting in to.  I knew when I was going to be punished and when the team was going to be punished.  I knew that if it became too much, I had a way out.  

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Those mountains in front of you will seem like little hills when you are beyond them and they are in the past!
sftbll4ever

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Posts: 200
Reply with quote  #59 
Quote:
Originally Posted by WWCDD
https://www.womenssportsfoundation.org/advocate/title-ix-and-issues/title-ix-positions/addressing-issue-verbal-physical-psychological-abuse-athletes-foundation-position/

1) VERBAL ABUSE – The most commonly occurring type of abuse in sports includes
a) name calling,
b) hurtful comments regarding performance,
c) swearing at players or game officials, and
d) comments meant to demean a person’s integrity.
Examples:
a) Trainer to player: “Fatty, lose some weight so you can actually get down the court.”
b) Coach to team: “You all suck. I thought you were better than that, but I guess I was wrong.”
c) Any and all expletives.
d) Coach to player: “I hope you aren’t proud of yourself. You shouldn’t be.”
2) PSYCHOLOGICAL OR EMOTIONAL ABUSE – such as but not limited to:
c) issuing threats, or
d) continually making demeaning statements.
Examples:
b) Before putting a non-starter in the game, a coach says, “I guess we will have to let you play, you’re the only one left.”

4) BULLYING – Bullying is a form of verbal, physical or psychological abuse and includes the deliberate, repeated and
sometimes health-endangering mistreatment of one or more persons (the target(s)) by a perpetrator (the bully) whose destructive
actions are fueled by the bully’s need to control the target(s).
Example:
Bullying is usually an ongoing physical or verbal mistreatment where a “game” of usurping control is an attempt to win while the
other loses. Bullying coaches or players may often target more passive players. When the assaulted person appears to be upset,
the bully often says things like, “What’s the big deal?” or “She asked for it.”

WOMEN’S SPORTS FOUNDATION POSITION STATEMENT:
ABUSE OF ATHLETES BY COACHES AND/OR PEERS
1. The verbal, physical or psychological abuse of athletes subverts the mission of sports organizations and educational
institutions to provide leadership and resources for the purpose of improving the physical, mental and emotional well-being of all
females through sport and physical activity participation.
2. Any type of abuse has debilitating consequences both for its victims and for the society as a whole. In the context of athletic
programs it lowers the self-esteem and limits the ability of participants to develop their full potential in sports and physical
activities. It impairs the future capacity of its victims to experience full athletic participation and to pursue employment and
leadership roles in athletics. This, in turn, deprives the society as a whole of the contributions of these individuals and damages
a genuine appreciation of participant’s athletic achievements and contributions.
3. Abusive behavior of coaches and/or teammates toward other players undermines the professionalism of organized sport,
taints the atmosphere of mutual trust and respect between coach and athlete and between teammates, and hinders the
fulfillment of the overall educational mission of athletics.
4. In some instances, abuse may expose a school to liability.
5. The Women’s Sports Foundation recognizes that this type of abuse occurs in sport as it does in other institutional contexts.
In order to effectively deal with cases of abuse in athletics, as well as to prevent future abuse of female athletes, the Foundation
encourages officers of sports governance bodies, athletic directors and school administrators to formulate policy guidelines and
procedures that include training, distribution of the policy and subsequent evaluation of its effectiveness.


I'm sorry, but the items I have kept above are just wrong.  I'm not sure some people know how damaging this type of abuse is to these young WOMEN!!!  You have a coach fat shame a player, they lose weight and then they continue to skinny shame them.  Degrade a player and think it is ok.  For myself, I'm glad the ride is finally over and we don't have to deal with this crap anymore.
WWCDD

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Posts: 27
Reply with quote  #60 
The whole team is subjected to different spectrums of the abusive behavior.  So, the whole team would have to get sent to rec softball. 

As to not getting play or practice time due to perceived underdeveloped skills....the 'abuse' part is when there is no evidence or proof of lack of skills.  It is used as a tool of CONTROL and punishment to keep the athletes who are playing in line. 

Everyone selected to the roster came with enough skills to be trained and developed.  And if they can't demonstrate growth or ability then they need to be cut.  Coaches have guidelines in place for cutting players.  (The majority of whom are not receiving any or significant athletic scholarships anyway).

Playing on a college athletic team is pretty much like working full time while going to school.  And many athletes work in addition to both of those activities.  It's a bit of bulls**t to say that on top of all that they should be treated without respect because that's what separates the REAL athletes from the recreational ones.

Cutting all the eloquent language aside, players and parents can tell when an old school tough disciplinarian is developing a team and demanding excellence even if they are rough about it....or if they are sadistically manipulating the team under the guise of being tough/militaristic.  It's much easier to choose to leave a job with a bad boss than it is to leave a team with a bad coach. 

I agree with an earlier comment that identifies that, even though these athletes are adults, there is a huge power imbalance that works against them. 

The school has let down the coach and the players by not supporting both sides to be better.
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