Ultimate College Softball
Register Calendar Latest Topics
 
 
 


Reply
  Author   Comment   Page 4 of 4      Prev   1   2   3   4
WWCDD

Registered:
Posts: 33
Reply with quote  #91 
You are expressing my thoughts exactly.  Which is why the situation is sad on both sides.

We are taking steps to remove my daughter from the situation and push for the coach to be removed from the team to protect future players.  But in an ideal world:

1) The school never would have hired her or supported her against my daughter/team
2) The school, if deciding to keep her, would do more than just 'watch and wait' for the transgressions to get worse and have cause to fire her in the future....although, we heard that the 'micro-managing' did in fact accelerate the poor behavior if your goal is to push her out faster.  Taking action to increase the craziness just puts more girls at risk.
   
I think there is a duty of care for the academic institution to show that they care about people in their employ and provide the counseling and support to help coaches learn how their actions and behavior are inappropriate to collegiate competitive sport.  And to make it clear in their job description that the job is not just to recruit players and deploy them for tactical advantage in the War Games version of softball, but to develop them as people, players, team mates and citizens who work together to achieve goals.  It's why good teams also have high GPA's at college because they use these lessons in their potential degrees and classroom situations, too.  Good athletes thrive because they are also strong leaders who have confidence in who they are.  They can model the strength of the coach and not the manipulative covering up of failed character. (Which the girls who can claim 'success' on these teams can use it to justify their own future poor treatment of people in their care).

So, when a coach rules by attacking self-esteem, confidence, and makes it clear through actions and words that she wants other team mates to treat some of their players as 'less' than worthy, this achieves the opposite. 

There are respectful ways of helping players know that they do not meet the expectations of the program (if they don't legitimately meet them which was always also in question as to the motive for the attacks since the pattern over many teams was that it was often talented players who got targeted which points to even bigger issues than just old school insensitivity). 

Apologies in advance to offending adults who think this is creating a nanny-state and that softball should be a much more die-hard event that teaches girls to be physically tough without any allowance made for internal character.  It's why SURVIVOR is always pitting brains against brawn and in the end the winners were the ones who excelled at the 'social' game no matter which camp they started in.

(It's why Japanese work teams nearly wiped out the American muscle car until U.S. manufacturers started to modify their production methods to actually recognize their workers as a resource and not just a tool).
ultsoftballparent

Registered:
Posts: 28
Reply with quote  #92 
Great post!!!  You are total on point!!!!
Maybe the universities should educated young female athletes about prohibited behavior so they are not in the blind!!!
WWCDD

Registered:
Posts: 33
Reply with quote  #93 
after everything went down, I discovered a program that talks about prohibited behavior and it was a total eye opener, so, I agree with you that it should be mandatory and would support the players to understand what is acceptable.  the info transfers nicely to having healthy boundaries in relationships and employers, too.
1janiedough

Registered:
Posts: 3,525
Reply with quote  #94 
Quote:
Originally Posted by WWCDD
You are expressing my thoughts exactly.  Which is why the situation is sad on both sides.

We are taking steps to remove my daughter from the situation and push for the coach to be removed from the team to protect future players.  But in an ideal world:

1) The school never would have hired her or supported her against my daughter/team
2) The school, if deciding to keep her, would do more than just 'watch and wait' for the transgressions to get worse and have cause to fire her in the future....although, we heard that the 'micro-managing' did in fact accelerate the poor behavior if your goal is to push her out faster.  Taking action to increase the craziness just puts more girls at risk.
   
I think there is a duty of care for the academic institution to show that they care about people in their employ and provide the counseling and support to help coaches learn how their actions and behavior are inappropriate to collegiate competitive sport.  And to make it clear in their job description that the job is not just to recruit players and deploy them for tactical advantage in the War Games version of softball, but to develop them as people, players, team mates and citizens who work together to achieve goals.  It's why good teams also have high GPA's at college because they use these lessons in their potential degrees and classroom situations, too.  Good athletes thrive because they are also strong leaders who have confidence in who they are.  They can model the strength of the coach and not the manipulative covering up of failed character. (Which the girls who can claim 'success' on these teams can use it to justify their own future poor treatment of people in their care).

So, when a coach rules by attacking self-esteem, confidence, and makes it clear through actions and words that she wants other team mates to treat some of their players as 'less' than worthy, this achieves the opposite. 

There are respectful ways of helping players know that they do not meet the expectations of the program (if they don't legitimately meet them which was always also in question as to the motive for the attacks since the pattern over many teams was that it was often talented players who got targeted which points to even bigger issues than just old school insensitivity). 

Apologies in advance to offending adults who think this is creating a nanny-state and that softball should be a much more die-hard event that teaches girls to be physically tough without any allowance made for internal character.  It's why SURVIVOR is always pitting brains against brawn and in the end the winners were the ones who excelled at the 'social' game no matter which camp they started in.

(It's why Japanese work teams nearly wiped out the American muscle car until U.S. manufacturers started to modify their production methods to actually recognize their workers as a resource and not just a tool).



Your situation is the exception, not the rule by far.
WWCDD

Registered:
Posts: 33
Reply with quote  #95 
Would love to see a version of this Ted-Ed piece done with a specific focus on Softball Coaches who abuse their power just for self-promotion:

https://ed.ted.com/lessons/the-psychology-of-narcissism-w-keith-campbell

TheNarrator

Registered:
Posts: 6,630
Reply with quote  #96 
What about one on parents and players that get coaches fired because they don't get enough playing time or aren't "nice" enough?
__________________
Dewey/Will_I_Wynn is our forum moderator and is allowing a poster to call for the assassination of our President
3leftturns

Registered:
Posts: 15,898
Reply with quote  #97 
My experience at the parks is that there are a whole lot more prima-donna parents for whom their progeny's poop don't stink than there are actually abusive coaches. And those apples don't fall too far from the tree
WWCDD

Registered:
Posts: 33
Reply with quote  #98 
I promise to monitor the situation for the next few years and get back to you with the consensus on which shoe fits this coach.
If it turns out that it's just a lot of feeble low-skilled over-entitled sensitive girls who can't cut it at the competitive level and selfish litigious parents with an axe to grind, I will certainly post to say that "I'm sorry we ever tried to enlighten anyone....please do keep all of the systems in place that encourage this coaching style".
3leftturns

Registered:
Posts: 15,898
Reply with quote  #99 
Quote:
Originally Posted by WWCDD
I promise to monitor the situation for the next few years and get back to you with the consensus on which shoe fits this coach.
If it turns out that it's just a lot of feeble low-skilled over-entitled sensitive girls who can't cut it at the competitive level and selfish litigious parents with an axe to grind, I will certainly post to say that "I'm sorry we ever tried to enlighten anyone....please do keep all of the systems in place that encourage this coaching style".
Precisely the sort of spew I would expect from that sort of aforementioned proud papa
TheNarrator

Registered:
Posts: 6,630
Reply with quote  #100 
In a few years we should look for a list of "abusive" employers.
__________________
Dewey/Will_I_Wynn is our forum moderator and is allowing a poster to call for the assassination of our President
WWCDD

Registered:
Posts: 33
Reply with quote  #101 
Thanks for the tip!
I've always thought collegiate sports is more like a job that should pay...
We should ask for 8 weeks of paid education:  https://www.blr.com/HR-Employment/Health-Safety/Violence-in-the-Workplace-in-Pennsylvania#

TheNarrator

Registered:
Posts: 6,630
Reply with quote  #102 
I'm sure your daughters future employer will end up on here if he asked her to work late, or doesn't give her the promotion you think she deserves.
__________________
Dewey/Will_I_Wynn is our forum moderator and is allowing a poster to call for the assassination of our President
3leftturns

Registered:
Posts: 15,898
Reply with quote  #103 
It is a job that pays. Not having to pay off 10 years of a major loan for that degree IS payment

JMO
CrowHop

Registered:
Posts: 242
Reply with quote  #104 
Quote:
Originally Posted by WWCDD
Thanks for the tip!
I've always thought collegiate sports is more like a job that should pay...
We should ask for 8 weeks of paid education:  https://www.blr.com/HR-Employment/Health-Safety/Violence-in-the-Workplace-in-Pennsylvania#



You should ask for a class on how to get a clue.

__________________
Your pitcher is illegal.
SoftballFamily

Registered:
Posts: 30
Reply with quote  #105 
These idiotic and nasty responses that have now gone on for 4 pages are reasons why people who have legitimate questions don't want to post on here - or heaven forbid, a newcomer actually posts a question and doesn't realize they are about to be beaten over the head!!  Some of you people are just plain old jerks!   
Buffy

Registered:
Posts: 87
Reply with quote  #106 
That is so true. Most of these people are on the outside thinking they know everything and I have to chuckle reading most of these posts in how LITTLE they even know. And if anyone who is on the inside that actually does know what is going on and if you post anything, you will be attacked. By the way have you found a lawyer? Because I might need a name.
WWCDD

Registered:
Posts: 33
Reply with quote  #107 
They only suggestion that I had was this so far: http://www.greenberglawoffice.com/
PhoenixPhan

Registered:
Posts: 80
Reply with quote  #108 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prowler
I'd like to know specifics of exactly what, in this case, the OP considers abusive behavior.


So it has been a while since I have been on the site and I have missed quite a bit!  I would like to post what I considered to be physical abuse of athletes, but I will leave it up to others to come up with a legitimate reason for this "drill".

A freshman catcher who had started 21 of the first 41 games (splitting time with an all-conf returner) infuriated and "consistently disappointed" the head coach.  Another player who did not catch was also in the same boat.  The HC made both players put on catcher's gear and went to the bullpen with the pitchers.  No other players participated in this drill.  The HC proceeded to stack up tires on both sides of home plate approximately 6 inches off the plate.  The pitchers were then instructed to throw fast balls and curve balls between the corner of the plate and the tires.  The girls in catcher's gear were instructed to catch or block every ball.  The catchers came away from the drill with multiple bruises and seam marks on them from taking the equivalent of foul tip after foul tip.  After the drill, neither player played another game for the rest of the season.  The freshman catcher requested a transfer prior to the end of the season and the utility player quit.

This is just the tip of the iceberg and after talking with many parents over the years, this is more of the norm than the exception.  Most people will not say anything publicly because they know that things will only get worse or they will be bullied and criticized.

For those of you that think this type of behavior should be tolerated because a player is getting scholarship money...
WWCDD

Registered:
Posts: 33
Reply with quote  #109 
Part of catcher training that I have seen is to basically have a pitching machine do the same thing and the catchers are instructed to NOT catch the ball but to let it hit them/block it with their body.  My assumption was that it trains them not to flinch or turn away...so that when they do start actually catching their brain is trained to be steady/ready.  I never considered this abuse.  When I am talking about abuse the difference is in the attitude of the coach.  Did they do it with the purpose of physically injuring the player to be brutal, was it selective of only a few players to humiliate them, did the coach use this to manipulate the actions of the other non-drilled catchers, or to force them to quit?  Is the coach just mentally ill?  I think 'intention' plays into the interpretation of the action when it comes to coaches.
PhoenixPhan

Registered:
Posts: 80
Reply with quote  #110 
Quote:
Originally Posted by WWCDD
Part of catcher training that I have seen is to basically have a pitching machine do the same thing and the catchers are instructed to NOT catch the ball but to let it hit them/block it with their body.  My assumption was that it trains them not to flinch or turn away...so that when they do start actually catching their brain is trained to be steady/ready.  I never considered this abuse.  When I am talking about abuse the difference is in the attitude of the coach.  Did they do it with the purpose of physically injuring the player to be brutal, was it selective of only a few players to humiliate them, did the coach use this to manipulate the actions of the other non-drilled catchers, or to force them to quit?  Is the coach just mentally ill?  I think 'intention' plays into the interpretation of the action when it comes to coaches.


I think the fact that one of the players that was made to do the drill was not ever nor would ever be a catcher speaks volumes as to the "intent" of the coach.  The catcher that was forced to do the drill played travel ball at a very high level and was the starting catcher for her team that won the State Championship, Region Championship, and National Championship at the 18U level.  I don't think the drill was of any benefit to enhance her playing skills, but that is just my opinion.

If many starters are going to the AD to complain about how they are being treated and are threatening to boycott practice a possible sign of abuse?  What about when 2 assistant coaches quit halfway into the season due to how players are being treated?  Is making the entire team run many, many sprints near the end of the season for "violation of team rules" when not a single team rule was violated a possible sign of abuse or was it justified for the players complaining to the AD for how they were being treated?  If 6 players (3 starters) left the program at the end of the season, is that a sign of possible problems?
WWCDD

Registered:
Posts: 33
Reply with quote  #111 
I'm learning that the girls with the natural ability and years of skills training are often the target of an insecure coach who feels that they need to take out the biggest potential player to make every other team member internally cower in fear that they could be next.  If it results in a cohesive team that works together and a coach who then actually trains them to greater skills level after she 'gets their attention' then I guess an argument could be made for it being a psychological tool.  Right or wrong.  (But we all know results allow for all sorts of atrocities).    In our situation, the team became fractured, the stats did not improve, and a lot of parents and players just held their breath hoping the coach would get fired.....by letting one or two families take the lead on fighting the abuse.  The coaches, the schools and the NCAA count on the argument that 'it's only a few individuals and not representative of the team' in order to quash having to respond.  Even though most of the team actually has no respect for the coach.  I'm sure this angers real coaches even more than the players and families because it brings down the whole reputation of the sport and the coaching.  Truly pathetic.
WWCDD

Registered:
Posts: 33
Reply with quote  #112 
Well, now I know why Marty Greenberg didn't get back to me yet when I contacted his office.  He's been busy....
http://www.espn.com/espnw/sports/article/20466809/former-auburn-tigers-softball-player-alleges-abuse-sexual-harassment-14-page-complaint

WWCDD

Registered:
Posts: 33
Reply with quote  #113 
And as THIS season draws to an end...we add new families onto the 'roster' ready to file legal action for abuse going back 10 years.  It's not like anyone could have predicted this.....or prevented it.  (Insert NCAA, AD, School President, and all the other families who didn't speak up).
spazsdad

Registered:
Posts: 6,937
Reply with quote  #114 
It lives.
__________________
#SCOTUS x two


DunninLA

Registered:
Posts: 5,145
Reply with quote  #115 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3leftturns
My experience at the parks is that there are a whole lot more prima-donna parents for whom their progeny's poop don't stink than there are actually abusive coaches. And those apples don't fall too far from the tree
Certainly true.  However, having carefully read everything OP has posted, there probably is abuse going on, systematically, in the program she is concerned about.

The question at hand is... what to do about it.  OP has stated that her DD has been removed from the situation.   OP has said she is involved in the interest of other players who may be psychologically damaged by said coach.

Not sure what I would do in that situation.   Honestly, probably not much other than help my child think through the options, educate her regarding how common it actuallly is for people in general to become abusive, and support her decision to stay or leave.

My brother had a similar issue when his DD was a freshman player at a prestigious HS in Los Angleles.  Never had at that time or thereafter have any issues with travel or college coaches.  He became involved because his daughter was still young, not an adult, and he felt a duty to not simply leave it up to her due to her inexperience in life.  Long story short, they ultimately decided to switch high schools.  Two years later, scholarship to a Big10 school for soccer.   Very successful in business out of college.  What would have happened had they stayed and fought?   Probably not the good things that happened by leaving it behind and looking forward.  They felt they did their duty by informing the other parents why, in detail, the best player on the team was leaving, and did the same to the Administrator (forget the title) responsible for athletics.  And that was it.  Onward and upward elsewhere.

__________________
qui tacet consentire videtur
WWCDD

Registered:
Posts: 33
Reply with quote  #116 
Well written article with many points of similarity with respect to reaction of team, parents, admin.  The struggle of vulnerability versus strength of the players.  A good read.  And why it can take years to dismantle a sick system when everyone participates in the abuse through tacit consent or failing to believe without irrefutable evidence such as video.  It shouldn't take that long before people get on board to support team members in distress.  It seems that there are SO MANY similarities when situations are reconstructed after that fact that there must be some sort of computer algorithm almost that could be applied to identify team behavior to give advanced warning that something is going off the rails.  It's why, even though we are a year gone from the situation, it's not over yet as things gather steam in the investigations.  The more people who can come forward the better at this point.  http://www.espn.com/espnw/voices/article/23596770/for-auburn-tigers-softball-joy-surface-obscured-darker-truths-within  (Auburn being used as an example, not as any direct relationship to previous posts).
DunninLA

Registered:
Posts: 5,145
Reply with quote  #117 
Quote:
Originally Posted by WWCDD
tacit consent
that phrase rings a bell with me. 

__________________
qui tacet consentire videtur
Previous Topic | Next Topic
Print
Reply

Quick Navigation:

Easily create a Forum Website with Website Toolbox.